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Thread: Advantage play at NJ online casinos involving Ocean Magic machine results in some casinos holding up withdrawals

  1. #81
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    They beat the NJ online casinos again:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TU3EOJvnKwhgTx
    Nice entertaining story.

  2. #82
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    They beat the NJ online casinos again:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TU3EOJvnKwhgTx
    And your comment before about the online games having a higher payback was accurate.

  3. #83
    Originally Posted by kuma View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    They beat the NJ online casinos again:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TU3EOJvnKwhgTx
    And your comment before about the online games having a higher payback was accurate.


    That was the only way it was beatable

  4. #84
    Originally Posted by kuma View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    They beat the NJ online casinos again:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TU3EOJvnKwhgTx
    And your comment before about the online games having a higher payback was accurate.
    As was his comment about the much lower overhead of online casinos.

  5. #85
    Thanks for the compliments but I learned the online OM game was 94.2% before posting about higher online payback here. That was the missing piece in the puzzle of why it was beatable where playing that configuration in a casino is not.

    BTW, On GWAE 21 Mar 2019, Shack recommended that for OM's in the casinos with around 85% payback the lone bubbles in the 1st and 2nd columns are advantage. I for one am not taking that advice. I tracked it enough to know I was getting only about an 80% return.
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  6. #86
    Oh, and another thing. Have you ever seen Ocean Magic Mystery Progressives (must hits) before? Well here they are. Betting range is $4 to $200:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  7. #87
    Mickey I have a question if you don't mind.

    If you were to take a game like Golden Egypt and compare a 95% RTP version with an 85% RTP version, where do you think the reduced RTP would come from? The basic reel probabilities (i.e. low value symbols would become more common), lowered bonus round probability? Lowered gold frequency? Or is it just whatever hodgepodge IGT comes up with?

    I'm wondering because I'd like to know how to adapt data taken from a high RTP machine to a lower RTP machine, if that can be done reliably.

  8. #88
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Mickey I have a question if you don't mind.

    If you were to take a game like Golden Egypt and compare a 95% RTP version with an 85% RTP version, where do you think the reduced RTP would come from? The basic reel probabilities (i.e. low value symbols would become more common), lowered bonus round probability? Lowered gold frequency? Or is it just whatever hodgepodge IGT comes up with?

    I'm wondering because I'd like to know how to adapt data taken from a high RTP machine to a lower RTP machine, if that can be done reliably.
    With a game like GE I would say just lengthen out the probability of the coins landing in the screen. With Ocean Magic lengthen out the probability of bubbles appearing.
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  9. #89

  10. #90
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Mickey I have a question if you don't mind.

    If you were to take a game like Golden Egypt and compare a 95% RTP version with an 85% RTP version, where do you think the reduced RTP would come from? The basic reel probabilities (i.e. low value symbols would become more common), lowered bonus round probability? Lowered gold frequency? Or is it just whatever hodgepodge IGT comes up with?

    I'm wondering because I'd like to know how to adapt data taken from a high RTP machine to a lower RTP machine, if that can be done reliably.
    I have evidence that IGT makes games where the payback percentage is not the same for each bet level. The screenshot below is a partial of an IGT par sheet. You will see at the top that the game has a 10.499% hold. But that's only if you are max betting. The payback is lower on the lessor bet levels. I'm not at liberty to divulge the name of this game.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  11. #91
    Now take a look at this screenshot. The reset values for the free game meters are different. The more you bet the higher the reset values. My guess is the game has the exact same odds at every bet level on everything you can hit but you get more free games the higher you bet. I think this is how IGT is adjusting the payback percentage for each bet level.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 03-27-2019 at 01:11 PM.
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  12. #92
    I wonder if Buffalo Diamond is designed so the average meter is the same across all denominations, but the higher the denomination the more frequently you hit (which is then offset by the higher reset levels).

    As you know in the wheel mode the lower denominations have some low value free spins awards as well as the progressive awards, whereas max bet has only progressive awards.


    Edit - Looking at the numbers you posted I don't think my suggestion is correct because the green resets are too close to each other to offset all those low value awards you get at the lower denominations.
    Last edited by smurgerburger; 03-27-2019 at 01:44 PM.

  13. #93
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    I wonder if Buffalo Diamond is designed so the average meter is the same across all denominations, but the higher the denomination the more frequently you hit (which is then offset by the higher reset levels).

    As you know in the wheel mode the lower denominations have some low value free spins awards as well as the progressive awards, whereas max bet has only progressive awards.


    Edit - Looking at the numbers you posted I don't think my suggestion is correct because the green resets are too close to each other to offset all those low value awards you get at the lower denominations.
    I left Montana a few days ago to go and analyze Buffalo Diamonds. That post I made about getting the handpays the last couple days? Buffalo Diamonds. I'm just bouncing around from seat to seat as the ploppies leave the plays. The bank is getting a lot of action. All I've had so far is 75 and 160 plays. Biggest hit so far is 152 games at 4X on the 160 level. Racked up $1600. Haven't had a 400 play yet so can't comment on it.

    The hired help is getting real familiar with me because anything over $499.99 is a handpay.

    I'm supposed to be taking a nap and go back down later but can't get off this frickin' site.
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  14. #94
    A few weeks ago I saw a 13/82/33 at I believe 1.60 but was advised to keep walking by a more knowledgeable machine player.... I'm not too sure about that now.

  15. #95
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    A few weeks ago I saw a 13/82/33 at I believe 1.60 but was advised to keep walking by a more knowledgeable machine player.... I'm not too sure about that now.
    I'm still collecting stats and crunching numbers but if that 82 is not playable then Buffalo Diamonds can't be beat.
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

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