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Thread: APs Wrongly Prosecuted - Keno - They're Suing Harrah's

  1. #301
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    For the record, I am not siding with the casino on this title subject. I just want proof of what the suspects actually did and how high above the pay table was that an advantageous play. The article does not help me comprehend this part.

    While I realize this is a gambling site, what bothers me most about the story, coming from a family of city and federal law enforcement, it the police taking assets based on the asset forfeiture rule, which allows them to take any assets without the individual actually breaking a law. The assets are "allegedly" involved in a crime. Sadly, in this story, one individual admitted some wrong doing and lost the assets. He should have kept his mouth shut (yes, I realize the casino tipped off the police).

    Also, remember that, especially in slots, the casinos make sure that machines are labeled that the casinos are not liable for malfunctions. I understand why they state this, but I do not like it. Have fun, but not too much fun.
    I think with the recent SOTUS decision the money is recoverable as he wasn't convicted of anything. Also, at 5X the keno pay was probably in the 450% range.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #302
    On Stop Limits:

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with stop limits for a gambler, aka negative EV player, aka, longterm losing player. A stop limit can limit losses for that day and preserve a win for that day. I highly recommend stop losses for non-AP players.

    There is something wrong with people thinking that stop losses, whether, win targets, or loss limits changes anything longterm. They do not. A win limit preserve a short term win for that day. But unless you are stopping for good, if you are playing -EV, you will still lose longterm.

    And this longterm vs short term thinking is the fundamental difference between -EV (non-APs), and +EV (AP's).

    Non-APs MAY win short term, like a single day, but they WILL lose long-term.
    +EV players or AP's May lose short-term but they WILL win longterm.

    These things are guaranteed by mathematics.

    The funniest thing ever is when these guys start thinking they can duplicate some sort of short-term win (variance) into a longterm result, which of course is mathematically impossible.

    The best example continues to be roulette. A guy walks in and bets black 3 times winning 2 of them and then thinks he can do that every day for a year.

    The casinos are filled with players playing for the short-term, who may or may not win short-term but are guaranteed to lose long-term. I guess I should not be surprised that these gambling related forums are filled with such people/players as well. But I will admit, I am, or at least was when I started on these forums. I was and continue to be stunned at how many players, -EV, longterm losing players, continue with their voodoo beliefs even after it is explained to them. That is that part that amazes and shocks me.

    My analogy for this: 4 year old puts his hot hand on the stove, burns it and cries for 20 minutes. When the pain subsides, what does he do....puts his hand on the hot stove and burns it again.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 03-15-2019 at 09:16 AM.

  3. #303
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    About Frieghtman, he was the defacto leader on BJTF.
    Nobody cares Bob21. Only a very few here are blackjack players and only 3 or 4 even know what BJTF is. The fact is the owner of that forum ruined that forum and drove away most knowledgeable people in a very short time. Some through personal vendetta dating back decades, but the big thing was his unexplained support for a player, making completely impossible claims, mathematically impossible claims for the purpose of misleading other, especially newer players. I mean it is not like that owner was somebody that didn't know. HE IS A MATH GUY HIMSELF, and yet he allowed and protected this fraud....to this day.

    Why would he do that? Forum traffic! When the fraud guy is your leading poster with 16,000 posts when no one else has a third that number, you sell out. And that's what Norm did. And he threw away a lifetime of credibility and his forum died that day. It may appear that this death was and continues to be a slow process, but it wasn't. That is the day all credibility and many real, legitimate AP posters left.

    One of them, a longterm player from Tommy Hyland's team, perhaps the most knowledgeable player I have encountered on these forums started his own 'private' forum at that time. It is not open to the public. And that is where all the real and legitimate blackjack AP's that used to populate not only Norm's forum but BJ21 are today, networking among themselves, but not sharing anything for the benefit of newer players. Norm did that!

    So stop your ongoing commentary about BJTF. It is dead. It is a voodoo forum now because Norm chose to back a fraud that he knew was a fraud in the name of some forum traffic. The only lesson to be learned from that is that these forum owner (all of them) have a different agenda. It is forum traffic.

  4. #304
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    For the record, I don't have much of an issue with Mr. Mendelson reneging on the package thing. I wrote section notes for him before he decided he didn't want to read the stuff, so that annoyed the hell out of me, but his not wanting it is understandable. To me, what isn't kosher is his refusal to say something like, "Rob's my friend. I didn't want to be the one to prove he's lying. So I have to pass." Or maybe, "I committed a video to Rob. It'll make me look really bad if I'm the one who helps debunk him."

    Make some reasonable public (or private) statement like that. No, instead it was a song and dance. Now I'm sure Mr. Mendelson doesn't really think Argentino has a $1.5 million RV sitting in South Dakota that he never drives. But instead of turning a jaded eye to that, we get the jaded eye turned to counting two tables.

    One problem with the whole package deal is that it appears as if Mr. Mendelson was testing me. He gives an address and says send it. I immediately say, "Yay!" He shortly thereafter pulls a Roseanne Roseannadanna and says, "Never mind." It sure looks like a no risk test to see if I'm making stuff up. This is another "not kosher" aspect.

    For a lot of the anti-APs here, I'm reminded of an old Jerry Tarkanian story. Tarkanian noted that, "The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, they'll slap another two years probation on Cleveland State."

    That's the way it's been here. The more demonstrably false Argentino's statements become, the more the confederacy goes after the AP storylines. It is goddamn weird. One would think a journalist like Mr. Mendelson or seemingly successful businesspeople (as blackhole and coach belly present themselves) would turn their debunking attention to things that appear least likely. But that's not how it works. It's just very, very strange. I mean, whatever you think, kewlJ and mickeycrimm have shown considerable expertise in their respective specialties. Argentino hasn't demonstrated expertise in anything. And somehow that's reason to give him a pass.

    This gives me an excuse to recommend a book by Tom Nichols called "The Death of Expertise." It explores some of these issues.

    Note: I realize Argentino probably counts my recommending a book as a solicitation. LOL. Only if you buy it. Go to your library.
    You must have missed the last episode of As The RV Turns. The latest price is 1.8 million. In order to maintain the drama, the story has to keep up with inflation.
    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  5. #305
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    About Frieghtman, he was the defacto leader on BJTF.
    Nobody cares Bob21.
    Wrongo. Keystone cares. He asked me a question about Freightman and I answered it. During the time I was on that site freightman and Three were the defacto leaders. Bosox was basically a follower trying to get approval from Frieghtman. You could tell Bosox/Bobo was very insecure because he always needed reassurance from someone that they agree with him.

    I can tell Bobo is searching for a leader here too and hasn’t found that person. He’s lost right now and needs direction.

    I agree most people here don’t care about that other site so they should NOT read the meaningless drivel between you, me and Bobo.

    Maybe we should start a thread called Blackjack the Forum, kind of like the W of V thread, where we can take this meaningless drivel to another threat. What do you think SpiderMan or kJ or whatever your handle is here?

  6. #306
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Btw, I truelly find Moses jokes pretty funny. Moses was always my favorite poster over BJTF, until he got the boot and sent to zenzone. I found out about Zenzone through BJTF. Some members were talking to Moses through BTJF and letting people know he was over there, until Norm put a stop to it. I’m glad Dan doesn’t do that here.
    Seriously, what is wrong with you? Are you stuck in the 3rd grade. He makes pee-pee jokes and calls people names and I think that is funny.

    Moses is nuts. Actual mental issues. And as a result he is left on a forum that has zero other active members where he talks to himself about stuff going on other forums. NOT A SINGLE person has responded to any of Moses's hundreds of rants since he was sent back to ZZ. NOT A SINGLE RESONSE. He is literally the demented fool sitting there talking to himself.

    There was something interesting that he posted this week. He mentioned that being a multi-millionaire, he purchased 300k homes for each of his children, I think the number mentioned was 3.

    I wonder where THAT came from? WE have a guy here, a guy also living in the twilight zone, who makes the same claim. 2 peas in a pod. Both won millions, one playing losing video poker, the other playing $5 blackjack in Reno and both have spent that Million buying homes for their children. Does this sound reasonable to anyone?

    Anyway, Moses hangs out in a sportsbook by day, who knows where at night, with a group of degenerate homeless guys in Reno. They can't even afford a phone, so they all share Moses's phone. And these guys who's biggest concern is where their next meal or beer is coming from, all are avid readers of these different forums and all astonishingly agree with Moses on everything, to the point that one homeless chap, has made it a priority above food and drink, to post on several forums.

    Bobby21, if you believe this, you belong over there with him. Seriously...go. You can sit around laughing at pee-pee jokes and bravado "I'm going to kick you ass" bullshit to your hearts content.

    I don't know Moses situation nor do I care. He talks about "a lady" and occasionally a home. I am not sure he has either. But even if he does have a place to rest his head at night, I am sure his story is a lot closer to he is one of the homeless "boys" that he hangs with, than the milionaire $5 blackjack player that bought a million dollar homes for his children. But please Bobby, go and join the boys. You would apparently fit right in.

  7. #307
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    About Frieghtman, he was the defacto leader on BJTF.
    Nobody cares Bob21.
    Wrongo. Keystone cares. He asked me a question about Freightman and I answered it. During the time I was on that site freightman and Three were the defacto leaders. Bosox was basically a follower trying to get approval from Frieghtman. You could tell Bosox/Bobo was very insecure because he always needed reassurance from someone that they agree with him.

    I can tell Bobo is searching for a leader here too and hasn’t found that person. He’s lost right now and needs direction.

    I agree most people here don’t care about that other site so they should NOT read the meaningless drivel between you, me and Bobo.

    Maybe we should start a thread called Blackjack the Forum, kind of like the W of V thread, where we can take this meaningless drivel to another threat. What do you think SpiderMan or kJ or whatever your handle is here?
    Keystone does not care. Keystone is just busting on Moses. Keystone doesn't play blackjack by his own admission. I think he has very little interest in it. Keystone are you even located in the US? Just curious?

    Moses, and now Bob21 seem to be obsessed with keystone and I think both think he is someone else...who he isn't.

    Again, Bob21, nobody cares about BJTF here. WoV is different. Most members here on both sides of the AP/gambler line came from WoV. Some are still members there. So a thread discussing events there is somewhat relevant. But you talk about BJTF and the members there that know one knows or cares about.

    You continue to compare your using multiple handles to my returning to a forum I was banned from to warn players about casino cheating. You by your own admission, use different handles to hide who you are/were and throw people off. To play people.

    I used a sock puppet for one single purpose: to warn other players of a cheating situation. And let's examine the results. Spiderman received a helpful rating of 27 in total 59 posts. Unparalleled in the history of BJTF. Even with the casino industry supporters like yourself challenging my claim, the membership overwhelmingly appreciated it being brought to light.

  8. #308
    Rob Singer wrote:

    "So carry on haters. Keep making believe no one can win at gambling but AP's. Keep on pretending Alan didn't pay money to his son because he has no retirement savings and he throws his pensions and SS into the poker machines on the first of the month. Keep up the "Singer's homeless with nothing" claims and he steals electricity, wi-fi, and siphons gas.

    I do believe the lot knows the joke's always been on you. After all, what are the little people really for anyway? "

    Rob, you are talking about two distinctly different topics, Gambling, and Success/Failure in life itself. You need to discuss each one separately. First let's just talk about the gambling side. No matter how you slice or dice it you cannot make a negative expectation random game positive over the long term other than a very rare exception, or you are getting something else back like cash back rewards. In your post you mention possibly playing a game that is pre set at 99.2%, where do you draw the line on giving bad advice? It is people who think like you that are the reason that makes casinos thrive in the first place. Now there are exceptions that happen otherwise without someone winning a jackpot once in a while no one would be playing, but, all of that is shortly lived. Now that one rare exception who bucked all the odds long term, everyone should understand there was no money management skills involved in any capacity, sheer LUCK nothing more.

    People like Rob, and Alan who apparently lived successful lives and are sitting in a sound finincial position have the luxury of playing video poker games with 99.2 pay tables purely for enjoyment and entertaining purposes, but, those who follow their advice should not take them too seriously.

    Rob, your continued refferences to everyone else as being the little people is nothing more than a self inferiority complex.

  9. #309
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Btw, I truelly find Moses jokes pretty funny. Moses was always my favorite poster over BJTF, until he got the boot and sent to zenzone. I found out about Zenzone through BJTF. Some members were talking to Moses through BTJF and letting people know he was over there, until Norm put a stop to it. I’m glad Dan doesn’t do that here.
    Seriously, what is wrong with you? Are you stuck in the 3rd grade. He makes pee-pee jokes and calls people names and I think that is funny.

    Moses is nuts. Actual mental issues. And as a result he is left on a forum that has zero other active members where he talks to himself about stuff going on other forums. NOT A SINGLE person has responded to any of Moses's hundreds of rants since he was sent back to ZZ. NOT A SINGLE RESONSE. He is literally the demented fool sitting there talking to himself.

    There was something interesting that he posted this week. He mentioned that being a multi-millionaire, he purchased 300k homes for each of his children, I think the number mentioned was 3.

    I wonder where THAT came from? WE have a guy here, a guy also living in the twilight zone, who makes the same claim. 2 peas in a pod. Both won millions, one playing losing video poker, the other playing $5 blackjack in Reno and both have spent that Million buying homes for their children. Does this sound reasonable to anyone?

    Anyway, Moses hangs out in a sportsbook by day, who knows where at night, with a group of degenerate homeless guys in Reno. They can't even afford a phone, so they all share Moses's phone. And these guys who's biggest concern is where their next meal or beer is coming from, all are avid readers of these different forums and all astonishingly agree with Moses on everything, to the point that one homeless chap, has made it a priority above food and drink, to post on several forums.

    Bobby21, if you believe this, you belong over there with him. Seriously...go. You can sit around laughing at pee-pee jokes and bravado "I'm going to kick you ass" bullshit to your hearts content.

    I don't know Moses situation nor do I care. He talks about "a lady" and occasionally a home. I am not sure he has either. But even if he does have a place to rest his head at night, I am sure his story is a lot closer to he is one of the homeless "boys" that he hangs with, than the milionaire $5 blackjack player that bought a million dollar homes for his children. But please Bobby, go and join the boys. You would apparently fit right in.
    What can I say, I have a sick sense of humor. You don’t see anything somewhat funny about Moses posting on zenzone and responding to posters on other sites? If you don’t, then you have no sense of humor.

    Also, Moses has made some pretty funny comments lately. I liked the one on the over / under on when Norm will close a meaningless thread, like the one Bobo made about me recently. Usually it takes about 50 posts for Norm to close these threads. But Bosox’s s post was so meaningless, Norm closed it after 6 posts. I’m actually surprised Norm didn’t censor it since he had to know where it was going. Moses commented that now Vegas is going to have to change the odds when Norm closes posts. Being a Norm detracted, I’d think you’d see that as somewhat funny.

    Also, the interaction between Keystone and Moses is funny. I expect Keystone insults Moses here so he can become a celebrity over on Zenzone. But Moses always takes the bait and make some pretty good comebacks. Some of the lines could be right out of the movie dumb and dumber, which was a classic by the way.

    Anyway, maybe it’s something in the water in the Midwest that gives us this sick sense of humor, who knows?

  10. #310
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    I used a sock puppet for one single purpose: to warn other players of a cheating situation. And let's examine the results. Spiderman received a helpful rating of 27 in total 59 posts. Unparalleled in the history of BJTF. Even with the casino industry supporters like yourself challenging my claim, the membership overwhelmingly appreciated it being brought to light.
    And let me tell you something else about that "helpful rating" at BJTF. I was not in favor of such a feature as it has the potential to become nothing more than a popularity contest. But during my time at BJTF (as KJ) I had a helpful rating of 94% for most of my time. In my final months it dropped into the low 80's as many began "unhelpfulling" every post I made, one guy in particular.

    But most of my time was in the mid 90's. There are only 3 other members that are/were in the mid 90's. Bigplayer, and Munchkin, longtime professional players, and Don Schlesinger, blackjack mathematical expert. Out of the 4 of us, the 4 members that had the best helpful rating, 3 are gone, one banned, 2 driven away. Munchkin was even a moderator at the beginning, but couldn't take Norm's nonsense. Only Don Schlesinger remains. And Don a great guy, very generous in sharing his knowledge and expertise (a little anal about spelling and grammar) only remains because he happens to be a 40 year personal friend of Norms.

    The point: The forum you obsess over is dead! Destroyed by a fool who threw his credibility away in the name of forum traffic.

  11. #311
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    What can I say, I have a sick sense of humor. You don’t see anything somewhat funny about Moses posting on zenzone and responding to posters on other sites? If you don’t, then you have no sense of humor.
    No I don't see anything funny about a guy sitting in the corner talking to himself. Maybe because I see it everyday on the streets of Las Vegas with the large homeless population. I did volunteer work at a homeless shelter for my first 7 years here in Vegas as well as back in Philadelphia before I moved. I am sorry, I just don't find the mentally ill, homeless people all that funny. If that is your sense of humor, I guess that explains a lot about you.

  12. #312
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    Nobody cares Bob21.
    Wrongo. Keystone cares. He asked me a question about Freightman and I answered it. During the time I was on that site freightman and Three were the defacto leaders. Bosox was basically a follower trying to get approval from Frieghtman. You could tell Bosox/Bobo was very insecure because he always needed reassurance from someone that they agree with him.

    I can tell Bobo is searching for a leader here too and hasn’t found that person. He’s lost right now and needs direction.

    I agree most people here don’t care about that other site so they should NOT read the meaningless drivel between you, me and Bobo.

    Maybe we should start a thread called Blackjack the Forum, kind of like the W of V thread, where we can take this meaningless drivel to another threat. What do you think SpiderMan or kJ or whatever your handle is here?
    Keystone does not care. Keystone is just busting on Moses. Keystone doesn't play blackjack by his own admission. I think he has very little interest in it. Keystone are you even located in the US? Just curious?

    Moses, and now Bob21 seem to be obsessed with keystone and I think both think he is someone else...who he isn't.

    Again, Bob21, nobody cares about BJTF here. WoV is different. Most members here on both sides of the AP/gambler line came from WoV. Some are still members there. So a thread discussing events there is somewhat relevant. But you talk about BJTF and the members there that know one knows or cares about.

    You continue to compare your using multiple handles to my returning to a forum I was banned from to warn players about casino cheating. You by your own admission, use different handles to hide who you are/were and throw people off. To play people.

    I used a sock puppet for one single purpose: to warn other players of a cheating situation. And let's examine the results. Spiderman received a helpful rating of 27 in total 59 posts. Unparalleled in the history of BJTF. Even with the casino industry supporters like yourself challenging my claim, the membership overwhelmingly appreciated it being brought to light.
    Yes I am located in the US, and you are correct, I have very little interest in blackjack. I usually play a little when I go to Vegas but it’s mostly to kill some time, and I usually lose...what I do have an interest in is watching a real life whacko on display ....much like when I was 5 years old and liked going to the zoo and seeing the gorillas and monkeys rub shit all over themselves, watching MoMo the Homo talk to himself in that deserted crack house is the adult equivelant

  13. #313
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    People like Rob, and Alan who apparently lived successful lives and are sitting in a sound finincial position have the luxury of playing video poker games with 99.2 pay tables purely for enjoyment and entertaining purposes, but, those who follow their advice should not take them too seriously.

    Rob, your continued refferences to everyone else as being the little people is nothing more than a self inferiority complex.
    Correct call on Rob, Bosox. It is insecurity that's all. And it is insecurity because Rob is NOT who or what he claims in real life as well as his impossible gambling claims.

    To his credit, Alan is. Being a somewhat public figure (not the celebrity that he thinks, but a public figure), it is easy to see that Alan had a successful career as a TV news "reporter"? Is that the right term? I presume he made good money and could afford to gamble what he did. Nothing wrong with that. I suppose his infomercial business later after he was fired was also monetarily successful, even though I don't care for the concept. So again, at least until recently, Alan could afford his gambling activity.

    Rob is a different story. There is no evidence that Rob was the successful person he claims. And he is not required (at least by me) to produce any evidence. But the problem is that there is now pretty strong evidence to suggest his life story is nothing close to what he claims. Because his real name is now known, people (before I joined this site) began looking into who he is/was. The bankruptcies, evictions, legal judgements and yes welfare fraud simply does not match up with the successful life that Singer painted.

    And before anyone jumps on me about the welfare fraud comment. It was on Argentino's public records last year via several of the sites. It no longer seems to be. To be specific, what it was is an expulsion from the food stamp program for a period for fraud. That is the penalty they apparently impose. You are ineligible for Food stamps for a number of years. AND now that reference seems to be gone. Judging from Singer's smug comments, I suppose he worked to have that removed. It's just like bad credit, you can challenge things, even if the are legit and get them removed, if the other party doesn't respond to the challenge, which they often don't. Is that how it went down Rob?

    Anyway, it doesn't even matter. Just one piece of the puzzle, a whole lot of information that contradicts his story, including his current living situation where he lives in a trailer in his kids driveway. Yeah, I hear Warren Buffet lives in a camper in his kids driveway as well.

    The real tell about Rob is that anyone and I mean anyone that challenges his gambling claims, and points out that Rob's 2 + 2 doesn't equal 4, gets attacked. Not on merits of the discussion, but very personal attacks that have nothing to do with anything. This is straight from the Troll playbook. Deflect and attempt to change the subject.

  14. #314
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    Wrongo. Keystone cares. He asked me a question about Freightman and I answered it. During the time I was on that site freightman and Three were the defacto leaders. Bosox was basically a follower trying to get approval from Frieghtman. You could tell Bosox/Bobo was very insecure because he always needed reassurance from someone that they agree with him.

    I can tell Bobo is searching for a leader here too and hasn’t found that person. He’s lost right now and needs direction.

    I agree most people here don’t care about that other site so they should NOT read the meaningless drivel between you, me and Bobo.

    Maybe we should start a thread called Blackjack the Forum, kind of like the W of V thread, where we can take this meaningless drivel to another threat. What do you think SpiderMan or kJ or whatever your handle is here?
    Keystone does not care. Keystone is just busting on Moses. Keystone doesn't play blackjack by his own admission. I think he has very little interest in it. Keystone are you even located in the US? Just curious?

    Moses, and now Bob21 seem to be obsessed with keystone and I think both think he is someone else...who he isn't.

    Again, Bob21, nobody cares about BJTF here. WoV is different. Most members here on both sides of the AP/gambler line came from WoV. Some are still members there. So a thread discussing events there is somewhat relevant. But you talk about BJTF and the members there that know one knows or cares about.

    You continue to compare your using multiple handles to my returning to a forum I was banned from to warn players about casino cheating. You by your own admission, use different handles to hide who you are/were and throw people off. To play people.

    I used a sock puppet for one single purpose: to warn other players of a cheating situation. And let's examine the results. Spiderman received a helpful rating of 27 in total 59 posts. Unparalleled in the history of BJTF. Even with the casino industry supporters like yourself challenging my claim, the membership overwhelmingly appreciated it being brought to light.
    Yes I am located in the US, and you are correct, I have very little interest in blackjack. I usually play a little when I go to Vegas but it’s mostly to kill some time, and I usually lose...what I do have an interest in is watching a real life whacko on display ....much like when I was 5 years old and liked going to the zoo and seeing the gorillas and monkeys rub shit all over themselves, watching MoMo the Homo talk to himself in that deserted crack house is the adult equivelant
    Thank you keystone. That's pretty much the way I read it. Nothing wrong with that.

  15. #315
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    You continue to compare your using multiple handles to my returning to a forum I was banned from to warn players about casino cheating. You by your own admission, use different handles to hide who you are/were and throw people off. To play people.
    Kj, you are misquoting me and you know it. I said I came on this site with a different handle then I had at BTJF so I could get a decent answer from Moses about his counting system. So yes, if you want to call that throwing someone off, I guess you could say that. If it makes you feel better to say that, then go ahead.

    But I have never used different handles to “play people”. Show me one example where I have done that. Even Bosox has said all my handles are “consistent”. He said I have never taken different sides with my different handles. I have never “played you”. When you say something I agree with you, I say I agree with you. When you say something, I don’t agree with, I let you know I don’t agree with you. I don’t check to see what my handle is because it doesn’t matter to me.

    If you’re going to accuse me of “playing people” you need to step up and show me how I’ve done that. Yes, I went onto different sites with different handles but there was no master plan behind it. I actually used my real name in the first forum I joined since I didn’t know that would be my handle. I had to ask the moderator to change it and he did.

    What you did is much worse than anything I’ve done. You used a sock puppet to get on a site your were banned. But in the AP ethics book this probably is okay. You still haven’t posted the AP ethics code. I’m waiting.

  16. #316
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    If you’re going to accuse me of “playing people” you need to step up and show me how I’ve done that.
    That is an easy one. Earlier this week, on another forum using another name, you asked me my opinion on a player, and his claims which required me to listen to the GWAE interview. I did so, because you were engaging in productive meaningful respectful conversation at the time. But I did not know it was you the same person who during the same time was doing all this trolling here. I would have never spent a minute wasting my time if I did, because I now think very little of you.

    And you can claim what you want but I am quite sure you knew that I did not know you were the same person. THAT is playing someone. And while I was slow and naïve about it, what you were doing was so obvious that two different people, BoSox publicly and a second person privately felt the need to inform me that it was you playing me.

    So Fuck you Bob21, casino supporter troll.

  17. #317
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    Nobody cares Bob21.
    Wrongo. Keystone cares. He asked me a question about Freightman and I answered it. During the time I was on that site freightman and Three were the defacto leaders. Bosox was basically a follower trying to get approval from Frieghtman. You could tell Bosox/Bobo was very insecure because he always needed reassurance from someone that they agree with him.

    I can tell Bobo is searching for a leader here too and hasn’t found that person. He’s lost right now and needs direction.

    I agree most people here don’t care about that other site so they should NOT read the meaningless drivel between you, me and Bobo.

    Maybe we should start a thread called Blackjack the Forum, kind of like the W of V thread, where we can take this meaningless drivel to another threat. What do you think SpiderMan or kJ or whatever your handle is here?
    Keystone does not care. Keystone is just busting on Moses. Keystone doesn't play blackjack by his own admission. I think he has very little interest in it. Keystone are you even located in the US? Just curious?

    Moses, and now Bob21 seem to be obsessed with keystone and I think both think he is someone else...who he isn't.

    Again, Bob21, nobody cares about BJTF here. WoV is different. Most members here on both sides of the AP/gambler line came from WoV. Some are still members there. So a thread discussing events there is somewhat relevant. But you talk about BJTF and the members there that know one knows or cares about.

    You continue to compare your using multiple handles to my returning to a forum I was banned from to warn players about casino cheating. You by your own admission, use different handles to hide who you are/were and throw people off. To play people.

    I used a sock puppet for one single purpose: to warn other players of a cheating situation. And let's examine the results. Spiderman received a helpful rating of 27 in total 59 posts. Unparalleled in the history of BJTF. Even with the casino industry supporters like yourself challenging my claim, the membership overwhelmingly appreciated it being brought to light.
    I don’t really think Bob21 is obsessed with me, but I know little girl Moses is, the way he hangs on my every word and whined to me in PM...someone needs to remind him that I’m not one of his boy bitch butt pirates Tater or Freighter, I don’t roll that way

  18. #318
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    If you’re going to accuse me of “playing people” you need to step up and show me how I’ve done that.
    That is an easy one. Earlier this week, on another forum using another name, you asked me my opinion on a player, and his claims which required me to listen to the GWAE interview. I did so, because you were engaging in productive meaningful respectful conversation at the time. But I did not know it was you the same person who during the same time was doing all this trolling here. I would have never spent a minute wasting my time if I did, because I now think very little of you.

    And you can claim what you want but I am quite sure you knew that I did not know you were the same person. THAT is playing someone. And while I was slow and naïve about it, what you were doing was so obvious that two different people, BoSox publicly and a second person privately felt the need to inform me that it was you playing me.

    So Fuck you Bob21, casino supporter troll.
    Okay, I had to go back and reread that thread to see what you’re talking about. It was on APs losing a lot of max bets and I chimed in asking you the question about Joe on GWAE? How is that “playing you”? You still haven’t explained that to me?

    Are you saying your answer would have changed based on who I was? If that’s the case, you don’t sound very consistent...and, in fact, it sounds like you are the one who wants to “play people”. Are you saying no one can trust what you believe, because it changes based on who asks the question? Wow! That’s a revelation! I can’t beleive you admitted to that.

    I asked you a legitimate question and I thought you were giving me your honest opinion, but now I’m not so sure, since you tailor your beliefs to different people.

    I’m not like that. I’m very consistent. I will give the same answer to everyone. Ask Bosox. He has commented that this is one of my strengths, being consistent. He always gives me compliments about my consistency, and I always thank him.

    Is this part of the AP code I’m unaware of? You have to pick sides and always agree with someone 100% of the time or disagree with them 100% of the time. Btw, you still haven’t sent me the AP code book. Just FYI, in the real world people don’t have to 100% agree or disagree with someone.

    I’m still waiting for an example where I “played you”. What you said above just shows you have no core values and you change your opinion based on your audience.

  19. #319
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    If you’re going to accuse me of “playing people” you need to step up and show me how I’ve done that.
    That is an easy one. Earlier this week, on another forum using another name, you asked me my opinion on a player, and his claims which required me to listen to the GWAE interview. I did so, because you were engaging in productive meaningful respectful conversation at the time. But I did not know it was you the same person who during the same time was doing all this trolling here. I would have never spent a minute wasting my time if I did, because I now think very little of you.

    And you can claim what you want but I am quite sure you knew that I did not know you were the same person. THAT is playing someone. And while I was slow and naïve about it, what you were doing was so obvious that two different people, BoSox publicly and a second person privately felt the need to inform me that it was you playing me.

    So Fuck you Bob21, casino supporter troll.
    Okay, I had to go back and reread that thread to see what you’re talking about. It was on APs losing a lot of max bets and I chimed in asking you the question about Joe on GWAE? How is that “playing you”? You still haven’t explained that to me?

    Are you saying your answer would have changed based on who I was? If that’s the case, you don’t sound very consistent...and, in fact, it sounds like you are the one who wants to “play people”. Are you saying no one can trust what you believe, because it changes based on who asks the question? Wow! That’s a revelation! I can’t beleive you admitted to that.

    I asked you a legitimate question and I thought you were giving me your honest opinion, but now I’m not so sure, since you tailor your beliefs to different people.

    I’m not like that. I’m very consistent. I will give the same answer to everyone. Ask Bosox. He has commented that this is one of my strengths, being consistent. He always gives me compliments about my consistency, and I always thank him.

    Is this part of the AP code I’m unaware of? You have to pick sides and always agree with someone 100% of the time or disagree with them 100% of the time. Btw, you still haven’t sent me the AP code book. Just FYI, in the real world people don’t have to 100% agree or disagree with someone.

    I’m still waiting for an example where I “played you”. What you said above just shows you have no core values and you change your opinion based on your audience.
    Listen here Tard. He is saying he wouldn't have bothered answering. Not that the answer would be different.
    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  20. #320
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    That is an easy one. Earlier this week, on another forum using another name, you asked me my opinion on a player, and his claims which required me to listen to the GWAE interview. I did so, because you were engaging in productive meaningful respectful conversation at the time. But I did not know it was you the same person who during the same time was doing all this trolling here. I would have never spent a minute wasting my time if I did, because I now think very little of you.

    And you can claim what you want but I am quite sure you knew that I did not know you were the same person. THAT is playing someone. And while I was slow and naïve about it, what you were doing was so obvious that two different people, BoSox publicly and a second person privately felt the need to inform me that it was you playing me.

    So Fuck you Bob21, casino supporter troll.
    Okay, I had to go back and reread that thread to see what you’re talking about. It was on APs losing a lot of max bets and I chimed in asking you the question about Joe on GWAE? How is that “playing you”? You still haven’t explained that to me?

    Are you saying your answer would have changed based on who I was? If that’s the case, you don’t sound very consistent...and, in fact, it sounds like you are the one who wants to “play people”. Are you saying no one can trust what you believe, because it changes based on who asks the question? Wow! That’s a revelation! I can’t beleive you admitted to that.

    I asked you a legitimate question and I thought you were giving me your honest opinion, but now I’m not so sure, since you tailor your beliefs to different people.

    I’m not like that. I’m very consistent. I will give the same answer to everyone. Ask Bosox. He has commented that this is one of my strengths, being consistent. He always gives me compliments about my consistency, and I always thank him.

    Is this part of the AP code I’m unaware of? You have to pick sides and always agree with someone 100% of the time or disagree with them 100% of the time. Btw, you still haven’t sent me the AP code book. Just FYI, in the real world people don’t have to 100% agree or disagree with someone.

    I’m still waiting for an example where I “played you”. What you said above just shows you have no core values and you change your opinion based on your audience.
    Listen here Tard. He is saying he wouldn't have bothered answering. Not that the answer would be different.

    That was funny, MaxPen.

    Then again, I think it's more likely Bob21 is playing us by pretending to ask a legitimate obvious question when he knows the answer is kewlJ wouldn't have responded. He's just playing at being a slightly mentally challenged persona while actually being a manipulative, time-consuming, forum-dominating prick. That seems more likely than that his IQ is 40 points in arrears.

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