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Thread: APs Wrongly Prosecuted - Keno - They're Suing Harrah's

  1. #241
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Pray tell, what makes one an AP?
    Not surprised you don't know.

    I'll tell you this much. Winning 6 figure jackpots and still having a losing year almost assuredly disqualifies one from the AP club. But it may qualify you for president of the degenerative gamblers club.

    And having family members come to the forum and state in great detail how a person can't pay their financial obligations because of their gambling "problem", and how they are broke for 27 days a month and how their gambling addiction has effected relationships with their children and grandchildren most assuredly qualifies one for the degenerative gamblers club, while at the same time dis-qualifies one from the AP club.

    So at least you are in good standing in one club, Mr. Son of a shyster.
    Kewlj you continue to say that this is a troll site filled with haters, but pepe asked a legitimate question and I followed up, and look what you did?

    You immediately started in with your hate and troll posts. You followed with another post about alleged gambling addiction. And it continued.

    Did you ever stop to think that you might be the #1 hater and troll here?

    Why did you even respond to a question that was put to Axel?

    Let's get back on topic. What is the definition of an AP and why weren't these two APs?

  2. #242
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by pepe View Post

    Really? Seemed like they had an advantage to me
    Back to the question....
    That is a fair question Alan. While we are waiting for Axel to elaborate on just what he meant, could you answer my question? How did it come to be that you find players that use their mind and mathematics to legally play with an advantage rather than just "donate" to be such a bad thing?
    When did I ever say it was a bad thing?

    What got you upset is that I challenged your claim that you could count two tables. I asked you to meet me to show me how you did it and you refused. And then your hate escalated.

    I'm still open to meet you to see you count two tables. And when we meet, I will go online and show you my win/loss statement from the years of my big wins at Caesars and Bellagio.

  3. #243
    I will attempt to go back on the topic. While I will not speak for anyone, my belief for those who use mathematics, find obvious visual flaws in pay tables and seeking machines that have left optimal play from a previous player, are using parameters acknowledged for AP play.

    I cannot speak for the case in question but it appears that a code was utilized to give out money above the recognized pay table. From all the comments I have read, this is the best I can ascertain at this point.

  4. #244
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post

    Back to the question....
    That is a fair question Alan. While we are waiting for Axel to elaborate on just what he meant, could you answer my question? How did it come to be that you find players that use their mind and mathematics to legally play with an advantage rather than just "donate" to be such a bad thing?
    When did I ever say it was a bad thing?

    What got you upset is that I challenged your claim that you could count two tables. I asked you to meet me to show me how you did it and you refused. And then your hate escalated.

    I'm still open to meet you to see you count two tables. And when we meet, I will go online and show you my win/loss statement from the years of my big wins at Caesars and Bellagio.
    The count two tables thing was one specific incident, but yes, because it was early on during my time here, that is when it became clear to me that you had an agenda to discredit AP's. Not just me, but almost every AP on this forum. It has happened so often and is so obvious, Even Dan Druff stated his opinion that you had an anti-AP agenda.

    You thinking that I or any legitimate AP, would meet you or anyone they didn't know and show them anything proves you don't have a clue about advantage play or advantage players. WE are anonymous for a reason. We have people, both the industry that we play against, and a second industry that has sprung up to aid the casino industry in identifying AP's trying to stop us from playing. You thinking that I would do that is bizarre to me. Makes me really question if you have any brains at all. Get back to me after I have retired from my playing career.

    Meanwhile a number of other well known card counting blackjack player AP's have confirmed that they use or have used this technique. I am actually surprised at how many publicly came forward. But you just dismiss them as well and continue to treat me as if I am on trail and have to prove something to your satisfaction. You are off your rocker, Mr Shyster's son.

  5. #245
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post

    Back to the question....
    That is a fair question Alan. While we are waiting for Axel to elaborate on just what he meant, could you answer my question? How did it come to be that you find players that use their mind and mathematics to legally play with an advantage rather than just "donate" to be such a bad thing?
    When did I ever say it was a bad thing?

    What got you upset is that I challenged your claim that you could count two tables. I asked you to meet me to show me how you did it and you refused. And then your hate escalated.

    I'm still open to meet you to see you count two tables. And when we meet, I will go online and show you my win/loss statement from the years of my big wins at Caesars and Bellagio.

    If we assume kewlJ is indeed a winning blackjack player, then this would be close to the dumbest idea ever. If he's not, then it's a fine idea. I think Joseph Heller already covered this quite a long time ago.

    Ballpark counting of two tables has been established. There's no benefit to demonstrating it to an individual who's not a blackjack expert. There's a huge downside, obviously.

  6. #246
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    I will attempt to go back on the topic. While I will not speak for anyone, my belief for those who use mathematics, find obvious visual flaws in pay tables and seeking machines that have left optimal play from a previous player, are using parameters acknowledged for AP play.

    I cannot speak for the case in question but it appears that a code was utilized to give out money above the recognized pay table. From all the comments I have read, this is the best I can ascertain at this point.
    I have not weighted in on this case, because it is far above my level of even understanding. I am a salamander and have given up just about all of the little machine play AP that I was doing to return to my BJ roots.

    I don't honestly know one way or the other if this was a legitimate AP play, or an inside job. But based on what I have read, I know that it hasn't been proven that it was an inside job and unfair advantage. And it even appears that the casinos involved were sort of advised that they should drop that angle because they couldn't prove it. But they chose to ignore that and file charges anyway.

    THIS is the old bully mentality that the casino industry that Blob21 supports so vigorously, has taken for decades. They often figure individuals won't fight back and or won't pay the cost to fight back. Same mentality that they used against card counters for years with the illegal back-roomings and detentions. They were surprised as hell when card counters started fighting back and winning in courts.

    And for decades the casino industry has labeled card counters as cheats, and Griffin lumped card counters into their "book of cheats and criminals" despite that every judge that ever rules on the situation has ruled that card counting is not cheating.

    This upstanding industry that Blob21 admires so much is extremely dirty. And that's what it appears they have done here. They have labeled players cheaters that there is no proof that they are. Tell me again who the parasites are Blob21?

  7. #247
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    That is a fair question Alan. While we are waiting for Axel to elaborate on just what he meant, could you answer my question? How did it come to be that you find players that use their mind and mathematics to legally play with an advantage rather than just "donate" to be such a bad thing?
    When did I ever say it was a bad thing?

    What got you upset is that I challenged your claim that you could count two tables. I asked you to meet me to show me how you did it and you refused. And then your hate escalated.

    I'm still open to meet you to see you count two tables. And when we meet, I will go online and show you my win/loss statement from the years of my big wins at Caesars and Bellagio.
    The count two tables thing was one specific incident, but yes, because it was early on during my time here, that is when it became clear to me that you had an agenda to discredit AP's. Not just me, but almost every AP on this forum. It has happened so often and is so obvious, Even Dan Druff stated his opinion that you had an anti-AP agenda.

    You thinking that I or any legitimate AP, would meet you or anyone they didn't know and show them anything proves you don't have a clue about advantage play or advantage players. WE are anonymous for a reason. We have people, both the industry that we play against, and a second industry that has sprung up to aid the casino industry in identifying AP's trying to stop us from playing. You thinking that I would do that is bizarre to me. Makes me really question if you have any brains at all. Get back to me after I have retired from my playing career.

    Meanwhile a number of other well known card counting blackjack player AP's have confirmed that they use or have used this technique. I am actually surprised at how many publicly came forward. But you just dismiss them as well and continue to treat me as if I am on trail and have to prove something to your satisfaction. You are off your rocker, Mr Shyster's son.
    Unfortunately for you and for Dan I am not anti AP. I am against accepting unfounded claims. When you tell me you lost $8800 but had the best day accumulating EV I am going to challenge that. It was an absurd statement then as it is now.

    Your new shtick is calling me "Mr Shyster's son." Grow up, kewlj. Just grow up.

  8. #248
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    I will attempt to go back on the topic. While I will not speak for anyone, my belief for those who use mathematics, find obvious visual flaws in pay tables and seeking machines that have left optimal play from a previous player, are using parameters acknowledged for AP play.

    I cannot speak for the case in question but it appears that a code was utilized to give out money above the recognized pay table. From all the comments I have read, this is the best I can ascertain at this point.
    I have not weighted in on this case, because it is far above my level of even understanding. I am a salamander and have given up just about all of the little machine play AP that I was doing to return to my BJ roots.

    I don't honestly know one way or the other if this was a legitimate AP play, or an inside job. But based on what I have read, I know that it hasn't been proven that it was an inside job and unfair advantage. And it even appears that the casinos involved were sort of advised that they should drop that angle because they couldn't prove it. But they chose to ignore that and file charges anyway.

    THIS is the old bully mentality that the casino industry that Blob21 supports so vigorously, has taken for decades. They often figure individuals won't fight back and or won't pay the cost to fight back. Same mentality that they used against card counters for years with the illegal back-roomings and detentions. They were surprised as hell when card counters started fighting back and winning in courts.

    And for decades the casino industry has labeled card counters as cheats, and Griffin lumped card counters into their "book of cheats and criminals" despite that every judge that ever rules on the situation has ruled that card counting is not cheating.

    This upstanding industry that Blob21 admires so much is extremely dirty. And that's what it appears they have done here. They have labeled players cheaters that there is no proof that they are. Tell me again who the parasites are Blob21?
    BULLETIN NEWS for kewlj: the Nevada Gaming Commission does not consider card counting as cheating.

  9. #249
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post

    BULLETIN NEWS for kewlj: the Nevada Gaming Commission does not consider card counting as cheating.
    Correct. NGC as well as the courts have ruled that card counting is not cheating. Despite THIS, the casino industry labels and lumps card counters in with cheaters and criminals. That is what I said.

  10. #250
    IIRC, the guys who played the double up games were just regular gamblers who stumbled upon the bug.

    Did they do any AP before the bug was found, afterwords, or other types of AP during the play?
    #FreeTyde

  11. #251
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post

    BULLETIN NEWS for kewlj: the Nevada Gaming Commission does not consider card counting as cheating.
    Correct. NGC as well as the courts have ruled that card counting is not cheating. Despite THIS, the casino industry labels and lumps card counters in with cheaters and criminals. That is what I said.
    But the reality is casinos can choose who they want to do business with.

    I have been banned from throwing dice at both MGM Grand and NYNY. I was never accused of being a cheater.

    And for several years I could not play at Bellagio. They didn't call me a cheater either. They just didn't like that I set my dice and won.

    You are making it sound like they consider card counters to be cheaters when in reality the only thing the casinos are admitting is that card counters have a skill that can cost them money.

    Take that from the Shyster's son.

  12. #252
    Kewlj, why is it every forum you go to you're not liked? Not the ones you already are banned from, but the ones you're still allowed to post on. Maybe that's why you keep coming back here. At least there are a couple of people here who will back your stupidity. You should have taken that offer from that secret society BJ member that offered you a membership into the "Secret Society Black Jack Forum"
    Pelosi Calif. Schumer N.York. Enough said. We'll never stop those states. Their like 2 foreign countries. I'm for invasion.

  13. #253
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    IIRC, the guys who played the double up games were just regular gamblers who stumbled upon the bug.

    Did they do any AP before the bug was found, afterwords, or other types of AP during the play?
    Was playing the bug advantageous to them?

    Again what else defines an AP? A secret code, decoder ring or handshake?

    If you are trying to tell me that discovering and playing a bug to your advantage does not make you an AP then you're a blowhard.

    Of course you did go from off strip craps dealer to Seven Stars player overnight, so I guess whatever you say must be true.

  14. #254
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post

    When did I ever say it was a bad thing?

    What got you upset is that I challenged your claim that you could count two tables. I asked you to meet me to show me how you did it and you refused. And then your hate escalated.

    I'm still open to meet you to see you count two tables. And when we meet, I will go online and show you my win/loss statement from the years of my big wins at Caesars and Bellagio.
    The count two tables thing was one specific incident, but yes, because it was early on during my time here, that is when it became clear to me that you had an agenda to discredit AP's. Not just me, but almost every AP on this forum. It has happened so often and is so obvious, Even Dan Druff stated his opinion that you had an anti-AP agenda.

    You thinking that I or any legitimate AP, would meet you or anyone they didn't know and show them anything proves you don't have a clue about advantage play or advantage players. WE are anonymous for a reason. We have people, both the industry that we play against, and a second industry that has sprung up to aid the casino industry in identifying AP's trying to stop us from playing. You thinking that I would do that is bizarre to me. Makes me really question if you have any brains at all. Get back to me after I have retired from my playing career.

    Meanwhile a number of other well known card counting blackjack player AP's have confirmed that they use or have used this technique. I am actually surprised at how many publicly came forward. But you just dismiss them as well and continue to treat me as if I am on trail and have to prove something to your satisfaction. You are off your rocker, Mr Shyster's son.
    Unfortunately for you and for Dan I am not anti AP. I am against accepting unfounded claims. When you tell me you lost $8800 but had the best day accumulating EV I am going to challenge that. It was an absurd statement then as it is now.

    Alan,when KJ wrote:

    "he lost $8800 but had the best day accumulating EV"


    Meaning he had many large betting opportunities for that day period. With those numerous large betting chanches "high true counts" also involves huge variance swings that are unavoidable, but, exactly what you are looking for. That day the dealers got the best of it, as it is only one day and not all that meaningful in the scheme of things. What is meaningful is that he had many big bets made at the right time with positive EV edges, that is all you can hope for. AP's look at it from that perspective.
    Last edited by BoSox; 03-14-2019 at 03:46 PM.

  15. #255
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Kewlj, why is it every forum you go to you're not liked? Not the ones you already are banned from, but the ones you're still allowed to post on. Maybe that's why you keep coming back here. At least there are a couple of people here who will back your stupidity. You should have taken that offer from that secret society BJ member that offered you a membership into the "Secret Society Black Jack Forum"
    Do you have any idea what you are talking about or do you just talk? I post on two forums. blackjackinfo and here. I stopped posting at BJ21 by my own decision. It has nothing to do with who liked me or not. The forum has just run it's course in my opinion. Blackjackinfo I am pretty well liked I think. I think this because there is a "like" feature for posts and I get many.

    Here there is a group of anti-AP people that don't like any AP's including me. And there are 3, well now that Moses is gone, 2 bigoted homophobic haters. but since those 2 homophobic haters, you and Singer are also part of the anti-AP group, I get a double the hate directed at me by 2 nasty old fucks, who are a minority of the members. Just because you yell the loudest don't make you in the majority, fool.

  16. #256
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Alan,when KJ wrote:

    "he lost $8800 but had the best day accumulating EV"


    Meaning he had many large betting opportunities for that day period. With those numerous large betting chances "high true counts" also involves huge variance swings that are unavoidable, but, exactly what you are looking for. That day the dealers got the best of it, as it is only one day and not all that meaningful in the scheme of things. What is meaningful is that he had many big bets made at the right time with positive EV edges, that is all you can hope for. AP's look at it from that perspective.
    Pretty good attempt at an explanation BoSox, but you will never get through to Alan. In part because he can't understand. He just is incapable of thinking except like a short-term losing player, and also because he doesn't want to understand. Remember, this is the son of a mob attorney, a shyster. He was taught from a very early age to be dishonest and at least he has perfected that.

  17. #257
    The best example of what we are dealing with here with Alan's dishonesty isn't even with me and the tracking two tables issue, where Alan jumped up at 3am in the morning and ran to the casino and took intentionally blurry pictures of some blackjack tables.

    The very best example had nothing to do with me. It was a dispute about Redeitz and his credibility as a professional sports bettor. As usual these anti-AP guys wanted proof. Redietz agreed (foolishly in my opinion) and put together some information of various sports betting contests and published information and agreed to send it to Singer, who was the one challenging him. Since Redietz had and was willing to send proof, Singer backtracked as he always did. Finally Alan told redeitz to send the information to him and provided his business address.

    So 2 days later the "package" of information arrived at Alan's business address and Alan was notified by his partner {or whoever he is) Tony that a package had arrived. Everyone was anxious for Alan to view the material, so as to prove to Singer. Alan claimed he only got to the office twice a week, so it might be a few days.

    3 days go by. Alan then stated that he only got to the office once a week and would get to it the following week. The following week came and went and now Alan changed to he only gets to the office every other week. Another week went by and Alan then said "Once a month". Even Dan Druff was asking Alan when he would get this package like he promised. Alan replied that business was slow and he only gets to the office once every three months.

    At the three month mark, Alan said he didn't even have keys to the office and shortly after stated he was retiring and the office was closed.

    I mean THIS is the kind of shyster, son of a mob attorney person that we are dealing with. And if anyone wants to dispute this is how it went down, please inform me, because the record is still there....we can go back and quote it all.

  18. #258
    For the record, I am not siding with the casino on this title subject. I just want proof of what the suspects actually did and how high above the pay table was that an advantageous play. The article does not help me comprehend this part.

    While I realize this is a gambling site, what bothers me most about the story, coming from a family of city and federal law enforcement, it the police taking assets based on the asset forfeiture rule, which allows them to take any assets without the individual actually breaking a law. The assets are "allegedly" involved in a crime. Sadly, in this story, one individual admitted some wrong doing and lost the assets. He should have kept his mouth shut (yes, I realize the casino tipped off the police).

    Also, remember that, especially in slots, the casinos make sure that machines are labeled that the casinos are not liable for malfunctions. I understand why they state this, but I do not like it. Have fun, but not too much fun.

  19. #259
    The whole thing started because Singer claimed the "redietz" posting here wasn't the Robert E. Dietz listed in the Wise Guys contest or Who's Who in Sports Betting or "Tipsters or Gypsters?" So I had a package with interviews that had been published and contest results and sections of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" and photos of me from interviews and the Who's Who and an article from The Humanist, which puts a photo with their articles.

    Now, to be fair, after I had mailed it, Mr. Mendelson backtracked and said he didn't want it. My theory is that he was testing to see if I actually had something to mail, and when I did, he wanted no part of it. So I told Mr. Mendelson that he didn't have to vouch for me unless I bit the dust, in which case I expected him to inform folks I really was R.E.Dietz. I did however, expect him to pick the package up and at least scan the contents. Pretty hard to vouch for me if you don't at least look at the stuff.

    People on this site had followed the Singer nonsense that I wasn't me, and some expected some answers. That wasn't my fault. Singer claimed I was not me, and people were curious.

    Then I had some guys saying this and that didn't count for anything. One person said "Who's Who in Sports Gambling" required a fee, so it was just an ad, for example. Yeah, I paid $75, I think, and was vetted and had my bio checked by the publisher. The publisher was so above board with his project, it was ridiculous. And one interview had been by the Pottsville Republican, which drew some jeers as a small paper. The Republican, however, has won a Pulitzer. I refused to post some articles here, mainly because it's not my job to do that and some of the stuff is copyrighted, but not by me. There were some write-up blurbs of mine from when Marc Lawrence's Playbook was sold on newsstands nationally -- stuff like that was included. I was fine with showing everything to Mr. Mendelson as a private use option. I was not going to go back and try to figure out item by item what was legal to publicly post or not. I did include the standings from various "Tipsters or Gypsters?" in the Retro Road Trip thread here, since those were more or less public numbers. I did not post any of the editorial material from T&G, which was solely written by and copyrighted by Mike McCusker.

    Anyway, that's the scoop. I recently located a copy of Who's Who in Sports Gambling, so if anyone wants me to post my smiling face from that old publication, I can probably do so.
    Last edited by redietz; 03-14-2019 at 05:35 PM.

  20. #260
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    The best example of what we are dealing with here with Alan's dishonesty isn't even with me and the tracking two tables issue, where Alan jumped up at 3am in the morning and ran to the casino and took intentionally blurry pictures of some blackjack tables.

    The very best example had nothing to do with me. It was a dispute about Redeitz and his credibility as a professional sports bettor. As usual these anti-AP guys wanted proof. Redietz agreed (foolishly in my opinion) and put together some information of various sports betting contests and published information and agreed to send it to Singer, who was the one challenging him. Since Redietz had and was willing to send proof, Singer backtracked as he always did. Finally Alan told redeitz to send the information to him and provided his business address.

    So 2 days later the "package" of information arrived at Alan's business address and Alan was notified by his partner {or whoever he is) Tony that a package had arrived. Everyone was anxious for Alan to view the material, so as to prove to Singer. Alan claimed he only got to the office twice a week, so it might be a few days.

    3 days go by. Alan then stated that he only got to the office once a week and would get to it the following week. The following week came and went and now Alan changed to he only gets to the office every other week. Another week went by and Alan then said "Once a month". Even Dan Druff was asking Alan when he would get this package like he promised. Alan replied that business was slow and he only gets to the office once every three months.

    At the three month mark, Alan said he didn't even have keys to the office and shortly after stated he was retiring and the office was closed.

    I mean THIS is the kind of shyster, son of a mob attorney person that we are dealing with. And if anyone wants to dispute this is how it went down, please inform me, because the record is still there....we can go back and quote it all.
    Kewlj you're a fucking liar.

    First of all I am usually awake at night and throughout my entire career I've worked night shifts. So it was absolutely appropriate that three in the morning I would go to a casino you mentioned to determine if it was possible to even see cards on nearby tables.

    Secondly I NEVER CHALLENGED REDIETZ. From the start I accepted everything he said. What did I do wrong? I never opened his damn package of magazine articles and advertisements BUT MY PARTNER DID and told me what the package contained.

    Now shut the fuck up you #1 HATER.

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