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Thread: APs Wrongly Prosecuted - Keno - They're Suing Harrah's

  1. #101
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Cut the bullshit bob21.
    Why do you call it bullshit? Is bullshit anything that doesn’t agree with your world view? Do you struggle with hearing views that are different from yours? It sounds like it. That’s a problem you need to work on.
    He gave you the typical AP response. They get hi blood pressure whenever someone disagrees with them. Name-calling comes next. You'll find the same thing with liberals on TV.

    Regardless what these two bozos out of LV did or didn't do with those keno machines, it's more than obvious we didn't and won't get the full lineup of facts. And a biased advertisement-driven article certainly isn't going to clear anything up with info that might taint their agenda.

    We're left to go with what our sense says. Mine says these idiots may have tried to skirt IRS law, but I haven't seen how. So we're left with the elephant in the room--their glaring stupidity for driving across country with all that cash. It's obvious dummies like this would speed, not signal, drive while sleepy, or simply not pay complete attention to the task of driving because the easy way out is complacency.

    They got exactly what they asked for: reemed and steam-cleaned up the ass. The article wrongly painted this as some sort of ap-persecution. It wasn't. Enjoy it for what it really was. I did.

  2. #102
    Clearly they were avoiding a check and a paper trail in order to hide their winnings from taxes... but I don't see anything that says they broke any other gaming law.

  3. #103
    The amount of unconfirmed bullshit going on here is endless. -Blackhole.

    I swear I saw this in a coupon book. Stay at the UBS Inn. Cheap rooms, pleasant view.

    It's the Unconfirmed Bullshit Inn, right off the Strip!
    The mudslinging continues until the wee hours and you never get sleep with the racket but it's really not so bad.

    Back when The President was in the casino business he considered buying to renovate but ultimately passed on the deal. "It's a real shithole" Donald Trump said.
    The nice view is of the dumpster but I just pull the shade.

  4. #104
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Clearly they were avoiding a check and a paper trail in order to hide their winnings from taxes... but I don't see anything that says they broke any other gaming law.
    I just read some more articles about this case from 2014. I now understand it better. What these 5 gamblers did could not have been spotted by any standard AP techniques. There was a bug in the program that had these keno machines paying out 5 times more than it was supposed to, but only if you put the “right denominations” into the machine. It’s hard to believe they figured out the “right denomination” by chance.

    This is why the gaming company, WMS, said these 5 won this money by “theft” and illegal activity. They obviously couldn’t prove their case, but both WMS and the casino strongly believe this is an “inside job”, meaning the person that wrote “the bug” in the code was somehow connected to these 5 gamblers.

    What story makes most sense? That five gamblers from Vegas happen to drive all the way to Illinois and by chance figured out “the right denomination” to put in these machines to trigger 5 times the payout, or they got an “inside tip”?

  5. #105
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Clearly they were avoiding a check and a paper trail in order to hide their winnings from taxes... but I don't see anything that says they broke any other gaming law.
    I just read some more articles about this case from 2014. I now understand it better. What these 5 gamblers did could not have been spotted by any standard AP techniques. There was a bug in the program that had these keno machines paying out 5 times more than it was supposed to, but only if you put the “right denominations” into the machine. It’s hard to believe they figured out the “right denomination” by chance.

    This is why the gaming company, WMS, said these 5 won this money by “theft” and illegal activity. They obviously couldn’t prove their case, but both WMS and the casino strongly believe this is an “inside job”, meaning the person that wrote “the bug” in the code was somehow connected to these 5 gamblers.

    What story makes most sense? That five gamblers from Vegas happen to drive all the way to Illinois and by chance figured out “the right denomination” to put in these machines to trigger 5 times the payout, or they got an “inside tip”?
    Please link me to this article, I don't think you understand the facts or how this bug worked and you are misinterpreting certain things. I was told how it worked soon after it happen(I was keeping my eyes open for the machines in NV). I don't remember all the details, however, I don't recall it having to do with certain bill denominations, but rather certain machine denominations. And this kind of glitch/bug has been around for a while in more than one instance. So, it would stand to reason certain people would be looking for and testing various sequences and combinations on newly installed games. I don't know much about software programming and coding. I would think that other coders/programmers have an idea what kind of mistakes are made and what to look for when they want to find a vulnerability.

    From my understanding the Double up bug from way back when was found yet again within the last few years here in Nevada in a popular gaming area.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 03-12-2019 at 09:55 AM.

  6. #106
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Clearly they were avoiding a check and a paper trail in order to hide their winnings from taxes... but I don't see anything that says they broke any other gaming law.
    You are just speculating. Tell me why you think that? It was clear they were doing everything they could to keep it off the casinos radar so the play would go as long as possible(big deal, that's just commonsense). This happen in a short period of time so it stands to reason they would have accumulated lots of cash in that short period of time. What are they going to do with all that cash? I have a feeling they were traveling back to split it up and regroup. Each person would be reasonable for declaring their winnings come tax time. You can't just suddenly go put a bunch of cash in the bank and transfer it all around. The banks can ban you and your account, it happens all the time. They might have not wanted the money in the bank in fear it could be seized based on wrong assumptions. Once they(the authorities) have the money you have to fight to get it back and even if you prove you did nothing illegal you might not see a dime of it. Whomever has the money has the upper hand. If they had all the money they could have just agreed to give some of it back just to make it all go away.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 03-12-2019 at 10:18 AM.

  7. #107
    The only reason to travel with large amounts of cash is because you never intend to put it in a bank, Axel.

    Anyone traveling long distances with $100k or more wants it in a safe deposit box or a safe where it can be hidden.

    I'm telling you something new? Or do you think they really wanted to drive half way cross country to deposit the cash in their local branch?

  8. #108
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Clearly they were avoiding a check and a paper trail in order to hide their winnings from taxes... but I don't see anything that says they broke any other gaming law.
    I just read some more articles about this case from 2014. I now understand it better. What these 5 gamblers did could not have been spotted by any standard AP techniques. There was a bug in the program that had these keno machines paying out 5 times more than it was supposed to, but only if you put the “right denominations” into the machine. It’s hard to believe they figured out the “right denomination” by chance.

    This is why the gaming company, WMS, said these 5 won this money by “theft” and illegal activity. They obviously couldn’t prove their case, but both WMS and the casino strongly believe this is an “inside job”, meaning the person that wrote “the bug” in the code was somehow connected to these 5 gamblers.

    What story makes most sense? That five gamblers from Vegas happen to drive all the way to Illinois and by chance figured out “the right denomination” to put in these machines to trigger 5 times the payout, or they got an “inside tip”?
    Please link me to this article, I don't think you understand the facts or how this bug worked and you are misinterpreting certain things. I was told how it worked soon after it happen(I was keeping my eyes open for the machines in NV). I don't remember all the details, however, I don't recall it having to do with certain bill denominations, but rather certain machine denominations. And this kind of glitch/bug has been around for a while in more than one instance. So, it would stand to reason certain people would be looking for and testing various sequences and combinations on newly installed games. I don't know much about software programming and coding. I would think that other coders/programmers have an idea what kind of mistakes are made and what to look for when they want to find a vulnerability.

    From my understanding the Double up bug from way back when was found yet again within the last few years here in Nevada in a popular gaming area.
    AxelWolf, I can't find the article I just read, and I don't know how to find it on my phone. I'm sure there is a way. The article clearly said it was the "right" demoninations that triggered the 5 times payout. I did find this quote from a different article, which discussed the lawsuit the players filed against the casino: “While [the players] had ascertained how to increase the amounts paid through the particular denominations they bet."

    No one is disputing it was a "particular" amount bet that triggered the bug that gave them the high payout. The question is how did they figure this out?

    I'll continue to look for that article and when I find it, I'll post the link. I can't do that at work though since my work computer doesn't allow me to access this site, or any gambling site. I'll have to do it at hone. I can only access this site through my phone.

    Just type in some key words, like the gamblers names and Joliet and you'll find a lot of articles that discuss this case from different viewpoints.

  9. #109
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The only reason to travel with large amounts of cash is because you never intend to put it in a bank, Axel.

    Anyone traveling long distances with $100k or more wants it in a safe deposit box or a safe where it can be hidden.

    I'm telling you something new? Or do you think they really wanted to drive half way cross country to deposit the cash in their local branch?

    Actually, this is logically incorrect. You keep large chunks of cash if you need large chunks of cash immediately.

    Now if Alan says something like, "Well, that never happens," he would be wrong. But Alan, if you want to say it, be my guest.

    Example: A certain someone lugs 52K in cash around to implement his video poker strategy. He wins. It's Friday night. Now he has more than 52K. He can't really deposit it because his bank is closed. He plans on tagging a building and playing another "session" on Sunday. He's going to have to lug the money around for 72 hours or miss his Sunday opportunity.

    Also, it wasn't so long ago that runners in Las Vegas routinely carried six digits on them all the time, usually in large leather fanny pack type belts.
    Last edited by redietz; 03-12-2019 at 11:16 AM.

  10. #110
    Redietz do you really think someone needs hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash to drive half way cross country?

    And how much more cash did they already have in a safe deposit box?

    Who are you trying to kid?

    Oh... and banks are open on Saturday. And people not afraid of paper trails have credit lines.

    Edited to add: by the way Redietz there were several times I deposited $20k or more in bank ATMs.... forty $100 bills at a time.
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 03-12-2019 at 11:32 AM.

  11. #111
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Redietz do you really think someone needs hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash to drive half way cross country?

    And how much more cash did they already have in a safe deposit box?

    Who are you trying to kid?

    Oh... and banks are open on Saturday. And people not afraid of paper trails have credit lines.

    Edited to add: by the way Redietz there were several times I deposited $20k or more in bank ATMs.... forty $100 bills at a time.

    Straw men arguments, Alan. You're not grasping any of what I said. I'll give you examples from personal experience.

    When I was a young man, I had the need to get to LV ASAP to hedge a future. The cheapest flight I could get was on a Saturday from Nashville. I taped something north of 35k to my body because no banks were going to be open. Rather than shell out $800 or more for a flight from my neighborhood, I took a bus five hours to the Nashville airport. I had zero trouble going through security. I was X-rayed, and they knew I had the money on me. They didn't even ask a question. When I got there, I had to hit the ground running to execute the hedges.

    Second, as another example, I often carried 30K-40K in cash, and sometimes near six digits in tickets on me when in LV. I actually didn't sweat it because wherever I went, there were people carrying far more than me, and they were the likely targets of any bad folks. I was a piker. You couldn't wander around putting money into banks and taking it out of ATMs 3K a day or whatever. That was useless. If you're going to bet on sports, you have to be fluid and flexible.

    None of this had anything to do with paper trails. The money taped to me came right out of my local bank. When I came back, it went right back into my local bank. Paper trails had nothing to do with anything. You just need the cash on hand, and how much you need when is not all that predictable.

  12. #112
    Redietz it's now 2019... it's not when you were a young man. Today, there is interstate banking. When you were a young man there wasn't.

    I remember when it took ten days for a check from a bank in NY to clear at a bank in California. Today it's done the same day.

    Stop the BS. Anyone moving hundreds of thousands in cash is trying to hide it. You can't fool this son of a mob lawyer. I know more tricks than you'll ever imagine. LOL

  13. #113
    I haven't used a bank in over 10 year. I never will again either. Not using a bank doesn't make one a crook.

  14. #114
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Redietz it's now 2019... You can't fool this son of a mob lawyer. I know more tricks than you'll ever imagine. LOL
    And now it's down to trying to vulture UX and Ocean Magic for a few shekels......lol

    When are you going to answer Monet's questions?
    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  15. #115
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I haven't used a bank in over 10 year. I never will again either. Not using a bank doesn't make one a crook.
    It just means you have no cash, no cards, and no credit. Well done.

  16. #116
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I haven't used a bank in over 10 year. I never will again either. Not using a bank doesn't make one a crook.
    It just means you have no cash, no cards, and no credit. Well done.
    This is one of the better posts of the day. Made me laugh.

    The only thing you should probably change is saying he has no cash. You have to have cash if you don’t use a bank. How else can he buy something?

  17. #117
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I haven't used a bank in over 10 year. I never will again either. Not using a bank doesn't make one a crook.
    It just means you have no cash, no cards, and no credit. Well done.
    This is one of the better posts of the day. Made me laugh.

    The only thing you should probably change is saying he has no cash. You have to have cash if you don’t use a bank. How else can he buy something?
    I'm not sure he buys anything. He might consider stealing an AP move.

  18. #118
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Redietz it's now 2019... it's not when you were a young man. Today, there is interstate banking. When you were a young man there wasn't.

    I remember when it took ten days for a check from a bank in NY to clear at a bank in California. Today it's done the same day.

    Stop the BS. Anyone moving hundreds of thousands in cash is trying to hide it. You can't fool this son of a mob lawyer. I know more tricks than you'll ever imagine. LOL
    The problem with your premise is that if I were wrongly busted with 40K taped to my body today, flying between Nashville and Las Vegas, you'd be making the same assumptions. And you'd be absolutely wrong on every one.

    If you're gambling sports professionally, you simply cannot be moving money into and out of banks like that. Fridays and Saturdays are booked solid; you do not have the time. You are at the mercy of numbers flying around, and you can't run to a bank every time you need money or to an ATM to deposit it.

    And if you run into a snafu, such as when Regions was hacked multiple times this past year and had to limit transactions for hours, you'd be dead in the water.

  19. #119
    Redietz if you're taping $40k to your body you have a problem. I can put $40k in two of my jacket pockets. If you had $40k you'd know it doesn't take up that much space.

    Enuf bullshit.

  20. #120
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    You can't fool this son of a mob lawyer. I know more tricks than you'll ever imagine. LOL
    Son of a mob lawyer.

    Mob lawyers are generally among the most dishonest of the dishonest. Shyster would be a common term.

    The Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

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