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Thread: Multi-Carding

  1. #1
    Multi-Carding is a funny word to me.
    Sort of like Advantage Player or AP.
    I find that online jargon is different from everyday language.
    It is no secret that I have talked about employing this method for machine play.
    In Vegas it is on its hind legs just like Video Poker in my opinion.

    In the Hot Sucker thread I posted that you need 80 players to give you their cards.
    This is one reason why you can work alone and do not need a team.
    In my opinion the bigger your team the bigger the headaches.
    For me, I like getting cards from people who aren't interested in gambling.
    Most of the multiple cards that I use are from people who just want Free Gifts or some Food.
    Many of them do not want any money from the Free Play.
    I try to force 10 to 20 percent on them just because.
    It is funny when they don't get mad about free play falling off but get all upset when they start missing out on some Free Knick-Knack.

    So what is the big deal and what can you do?
    Once you know a mailer threshold it can be lucrative to have multiple cards.
    If you know the mail maxes out at 10k coin in you want to put in 8k to 12k per card.
    Try to keep it random. Try to let it fall off from time to time.
    Do not put the coin in like clockwork for most places.
    Try to have enough cards that you can rotate them around.
    If you have ten cards use 5 for a few months and switch them monthly or bi-monthly.
    If you are worried about lock ups you should play lower denominations.
    This will cause longer hours but can avoid heat.
    If you are worried about the tap on the shoulder you should play later hours.
    Graveyard is usually best. Late Swing Shift is good as well depending on the shop.
    Banker Hours are usually the worst.
    Try to forget 9 to 5.

    It is always better to spread your coin out as far as possible.
    50k coin in for the month is usually better spread out with 5 player cards.
    This is an estimate. You will have to get a feel for it through experience.
    One of the best methods is to keep moving.
    If you are going to play daily you can play for 30 minutes to an hour and move to the next Casino.
    This helps avoid any detection. You are going to be earning similar payback at each place so keep moving.

    Another good method is to switch cards when you have a large loss.
    It might be best to leave and go play elsewhere.
    Not because you lost a bundle but because you may not want to be seen pulling out multiple cards and switching.
    Better to come in later to play on a different card.
    Some places are watching the Free Play download these days.
    Westgate comes to mind. They are literally rolling back the tape to match name and face as you rip off the free play.

    If I have some large win on some card I like to let it fall off for months.
    Let that card reset so to speak.
    Play on other cards while you wait.
    This is why the more cards you have the better.
    You can see why players want 100 or 200 cards.

    Pulling the card used to be everywhere.
    These days you still have a few places where you can pull the card.
    Not only pulling the card when you flop a 4 of a kind or some big draw.
    You can also pull the card when you rip off the free play.
    You have to be very quick at it and it is a thing of the past but the computer doesn't catch that you took off the free play.
    I have had hosts text or call me telling me I have x amount of free play on my account.
    Of course I know I do not because I know that it shows up on their end but is zeroed out on mine.

    Plenty more to talk about but I have other things to do.
    Fun topic though.
    I will try to post more later.
    Last edited by monet; 01-21-2019 at 01:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Henchman Nick Nack. (Knick-Knack)
    Also known as Tattoo.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #3
    Question: don't casinos give bigger promotions to bigger players? And if you are spreading the play among multiple cards aren't you cutting the potential for the bigger offers?

  4. #4
    Slivering around from one casino to the next, keeping track of maneuvers, and 80 plus cards on a daily basis, hoping not to get thrown out, all sounds like a tough way to make a living and support a family. I don't envy you. I assume this is the best way to make a living if living in Vegas.

    You said this maneuver, "In Vegas it is on its hind legs just like Video Poker in my opinion." Then what? How do you supplement the loss? Are there really that many ways to beat a casino that when one door closes another one always opens? Will all these opportunity's ever cease to exist? Will new AP's just keep joining the ranks for survival like getting a job at Ford? After all, there are a lot of you guys who claim to be buying homes, cars, investing, the endless amount of money needed to raise a family including health care, hiding taxable cash income all over the place. This is just scratching the surface when considering the need to survive a lifetime.

    How many families do you think casinos are supporting and don't even know it?

  5. #5
    Short answer.
    AP's will be out of business when casinos are out of business.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Short answer.
    AP's will be out of business when casinos are out of business.
    APs could have less income is the point.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Question: don't casinos give bigger promotions to bigger players? And if you are spreading the play among multiple cards aren't you cutting the potential for the bigger offers?
    The information above is a general starting point.
    The individual has to go through some trial and error.
    An example is the Westgate a couple years ago.
    They were giving massive mailers for x amount of coin in.
    50k coin in per month was netting around 2k Free Play, Comp, Points, Invites... etc etc.
    Scratch Off Promotions and Point Days helped the cause.
    They have large denom games where you can get the coin in pretty quick.
    Eventually it came crashing down but that place has been on and off for a long time.
    Even better when it was the Hilton.
    They have had periods where they gave 1600 Free Play for 10k coin in.

    You don't have to run 80 player cards.
    The point is the more the better.
    You wanted a ton of cards when Boyd started the Young at Heart Promo.
    Why? This is because you wanted the 30x/50x Multiplier.
    The more cards you have the easier it is to go undetected.

    Is it fun? It can be and it can be a grind.
    I suppose any thing you do to make money is like that.
    Enjoyment is on the individual.
    It isn't for everyone.
    Just like anything else.

    What you want to find is some promotion that helps you stack your advantages.
    You get the points, mail, comps, etc etc but you also capitalize on the promotion.
    When you find a glitch... it gets even better.
    If you hammer one card and put in hundreds of thousands of coin in you are going to draw attention.
    Not that you can't do that as well but you may not be welcome anymore just because of your volume.
    Some places do not like it if you hit a 20k jackpot no matter if you are losing in the long run.
    Just how it is for some places.

    Most of the information I post is generic.
    If someone is interested and wants to apply it they realize it is just a starting point.
    That person has to do the heavy lifting.
    Some players are going to be best to play on one card.
    Other players are going to do better with multiple cards.

    Remember that I live in Vegas.
    I have been here over 20 years.
    I am not like most who visit or couldn't make it here.
    I do not fly all over the country to find the next play.
    I live here day in and day out.
    All of my information is for Vegas.
    Free of charge to everyone.
    However, in other parts of the country the machines are using older systems.
    Much easier in those places to pull the card or run multiple cards.
    Of course you run the risk of being noticed compared to Vegas.
    If you are using the information you have to be willing to take it with a few grains of salt.
    This is why you have to go through trial and error to test different methods.
    I used to run over to Reno, Mesquite and Laughlin all the time.
    A couple of reasons...
    I was younger with more energy and or ambition.
    The plays were very easy and monster wins with little to no heat.
    These days I do not bother so much because most of those holes have been plugged up.
    Mickeycrimm has the method and information for the future.
    The games are all heading in his direction and method of play.
    However, vulture play requires pounding the pavement.
    Perhaps 10x the amount of what I do.
    Last edited by monet; 01-21-2019 at 02:35 PM.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Short answer.
    AP's will be out of business when casinos are out of business.
    Six question marks in my above post and not one of them having anything to do with information about actual AP moves. Just common questions no AP should mind discussing. Instead the typical wise ass answer from the wise ass troll MaxPen.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Short answer.
    AP's will be out of business when casinos are out of business.
    Six question marks in my above post and not one of them having anything to do with information about actual AP moves. Just common questions no AP should mind discussing. Instead the typical wise ass answer from the wise ass troll MaxPen.
    Your answer is to Troll him?
    How do you expect him to answer any of your questions?
    Do you really want your questions answered or are you hoping the forum trolls you so you can troll the forum back?
    After all your trolling you certainly can not expect civil discussion can you?
    I am in the same boat.
    I do not expect civil discussion for the most part on these boards so I try not to read too many replies.

  10. #10
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-...-nightmare/49/

    Even the Great and Powerful Wizard of Odds pays people to pick up his free play.
    He is not as squeaky clean as I have seen him profess to be in the past.
    It appears to me that even he endorses playing under someone else's players card.

    Wizard Quote About Multi-Carding:

    "Next, it is one of the oldest and best known advantage plays to play under other people's cards.
    I'll confess to having paid people to pick up my free play for me at casinos I don't visit on a weekly basis.
    Just part of the cat and mouse game, in my opinion.
    To those who think this thread is exposing a good play -- everybody already knows about it on both sides."
    - Wizard Of Odds -

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    I do not expect civil discussion for the most part on these boards so I try not to read too many replies.
    That's a weird comment ... Why do you insist on posting than? Please explain to me why you or any AP for that matter have a desire to post about what should be your secret golden goose egg life? You already know you're going to get resistance with no proof of anything. Posting up free play and comp vouches don't mean shit.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    That's a weird comment ... Why do you insist on posting than? Please explain to me why you or any AP for that matter have a desire to post about what should be your secret golden goose egg life? You already know you're going to get resistance with no proof of anything. Posting up free play and comp vouches don't mean shit.
    Posting up meaningless drivel like you do absolutely doesn't mean shit. Trying to ruin another thread? You're habitual.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  13. #13
    So I have to say Monet, I feel like you posted this thread, just to irritate someone that you know will get all riled up by this subject matter...you know....The "little guy". I mean NOT like you to stir the pot right?

    So my question, why bother, just for THAT purpose. Doesn't the little fella have enough to worry about. I mean unless they are going to make a re-make of Wizard of Oz (not wizard of odds), The little dude's options are limited.....cut him a break.

  14. #14
    It's a no brainer why Monet started this thread. He's throwing it in the face of the WoV'ers that tried to shut down and delete Darkoz' thread. No chance of that happening here which I'm sure pisses a lot of them off. LOL! I don't blame him after the way he got treated over there. To many people over there think they run the show. Think they can get people to shut up.

    The one thing I find amusing about exposing certain plays is I get to be called a dumbass by idiots like Singer and Blackhole....and I get to be called a snitch by some AP's for exposing secrets. Hilarious. How does that song go "Stuck in the middle with you."
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    So I have to say Monet, I feel like you posted this thread, just to irritate someone that you know will get all riled up by this subject matter...you know....The "little guy". I mean NOT like you to stir the pot right?

    So my question, why bother, just for THAT purpose. Doesn't the little fella have enough to worry about. I mean unless they are going to make a re-make of Wizard of Oz (not wizard of odds), The little dude's options are limited.....cut him a break.
    What doesn't irritate members on these gambling forums?
    I have said before that I belong to a Forum called Civfanatics.
    Sometimes people get chippy on that Forum but mostly it is discussion only about the game and game play.
    Not on these gambling forums.
    We talk about anything and everything.
    We get into calling each other names and doxxing them.
    We post petty threads and posts about the known and unknown players.
    We even have members who don't play, care or know about gambling giving their expertise.

    I am sorry if this thread has bothered you.
    I did not go into your thread about Teliot and accuse you of wrongdoing.
    I played along and agree that he is pretty lame for selling 54 decks of cards.
    Not only is it lame to sell used cards for 6 to 8 dollars charging 14 dollars for shipping...
    but it is really lame to post on a gambling website linking your ebay account in hopes of a bidding war.
    I don't understand how you can sell playing cards on WoV but not Kitchen Cabinets!?

    I myself have posted up that I was selling things like a juicer.
    The difference is that I offered the Forum the Juicer for Free before I sold it.
    Turns out selling things on Ebay is a major pain in the ass.
    The buyer has all the power.
    They can claim the product doesn't work and force a refund.
    If you do not comply Ebay will refund the money and charge the seller.
    If the seller refuses to pay it goes to collections.
    Talk about scamming.
    F Ebay and their collection agency!

    My personality naturally gets under most peoples skin.
    I am not going out of my way to irritate.
    That just comes along with me being a member and actively posting.
    My dad used to reach behind to the back seat to crack me one for getting lippy or smart mouthed.
    Can't change now... too late.

    I never see you happy.
    You create threads and go to war with the Anti-APs all the time.
    I create threads and you always give me strife.
    I take it in stride though with you for some reason.
    Not because of your orientation because I am completely against it.
    It must be because you make a living hustling black jack in Vegas and that is no easy feat.
    Have to respect that aspect of your life or online persona.

    I like to talk about all things gambling related.
    From the side of math to the side of cheating.
    It all goes together in my mind and no topic is too taboo for me to discuss or at least give some generalities.
    I agree with DarkOz that what is posted does not really matter.
    If you AP you will find another way if something gets shut down.
    For the most part it does not matter if an AP tells the board what and how they are doing it.
    Most people just don't care.
    Sort of like telling someone they are playing the wrong pay scale or strategy.
    They are not going to move or change their ways.
    Tunnel Vision Perhaps.

    Like John Ho says:

    "I don't care!
    I do what I want.
    10 Dollar Comp For Everyone!"

    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    It's a no brainer why Monet started this thread. He's throwing it in the face of the WoV'ers that tried to shut down and delete Darkoz' thread. No chance of that happening here which I'm sure pisses a lot of them off. LOL! I don't blame him after the way he got treated over there. To many people over there think they run the show. Think they can get people to shut up.

    The one thing I find amusing about exposing certain plays is I get to be called a dumbass by idiots like Singer and Blackhole....and I get to be called a snitch for exposing secrets by some of the AP's. Hilarious. How does that song go "Stuck in the middle with you."
    Completely Busted.
    This is sort of a Big F U to all those WoVers crying and complaining about what you can or can not post about.
    You want Freedom?
    This is how it works.
    I have no problem with Sinking Ships and Burning Down Bridges.
    I have always enjoyed blowing things up just to rebuild from scratch.
    I am a sick individual though.
    I can admit that.
    Can anyone else?
    Last edited by monet; 01-21-2019 at 07:13 PM.

  16. #16
    I wasn't "giving you strife" Monet. Just busting on you (and the little guy). Just playing. Don't take offense.

    "You never see me happy"? Well you don't really see me...do you? Hey wait why is the little camera light on my computer on? You watching me Monet?

    Actually, I am pretty happy. Life is pretty good. I am a pretty easy going guy. Never get too up, never get too down.

  17. #17
    I would have no problem with those guys if they would just fess up and explain that they do things that are shady.
    They want to post up how Great they are.
    They want to post up how they AP in a way that is by the book and on the up and up.
    Complete Rubbish and I will continue to call them out on the same issues no matter how many times I have to beat that Dead Horse.

    They remind me of the preachers selling different types of Religion stating their way is the only way.
    In Advantage Play or AP their are so many ways to get the money.
    I certainly do not believe one way is any more worse than the other.
    That is if you have an edge over 100% return on your money.

    I certainly have a problem with a guy who says they just play higher denom till they win and they leave till the next session.
    A player who says they can buck math for short term wins that overcome long term odds.
    A player who posts up Football Picks and shows nothing but losses but he wins when he doesn't post the picks.
    A player who claims no AP can beat Loss Rebate or Casino Promotions.
    Players who claim they know VP Strategy but make a mistake every 16 hands.
    Players who say they are going to change VP Strategy because they are only playing 40 hands.
    Players who say that losing in Football is no big deal because I will get it all back on my Reno Trip.


    I chalk it up to wins or losses but don't stress on the method.
    If a guy wants to pull a shot I understand that.
    I also understand the guy who is trying to buck the system in a legit matter.
    The truth is the Casino doesn't exactly care how you beat them. (Sorta)
    The point is if you are beating them and they know you are beating them they will get rid of you one way or another.
    Last edited by monet; 01-21-2019 at 07:30 PM.

  18. #18
    Hey Monet,

    Thanks for the info. When you say this

    If you are worried about lock ups you should play lower denominations.

    Isn't the only way to completely avoid lockups to play single-line quarters? Seems like it would take forever to get any decent coin-in; I definitely wouldn't have the patience/focus.

    I've already been scolded once by the slot manager for letting my friend play on my card, even when she was sitting right next to me. I guess I'd get too nervous trying to come up with an excuse if I were playing alone on another card.

  19. #19
    Some casinos lock up $1,000 royals. It happened to me at Arizona Charlies.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Hey Monet,

    Thanks for the info. When you say this

    If you are worried about lock ups you should play lower denominations.

    Isn't the only way to completely avoid lockups to play single-line quarters? Seems like it would take forever to get any decent coin-in; I definitely wouldn't have the patience/focus.

    I've already been scolded once by the slot manager for letting my friend play on my card, even when she was sitting right next to me. I guess I'd get too nervous trying to come up with an excuse if I were playing alone on another card.
    If you are playing in a sweatshop you may not want to Multi-Card.
    This depends on the Casino, your connections, experience and knowledge.
    If a player is too nervous or worried about anything I suggest they do not do the things that makes them nervous in the first place.
    This whole multi-carding issue or strategy is not for everyone.
    I am not even suggesting that anyone does it that doesn't want to do it.
    I am only providing information that it can be done and is done constantly even in the Year of our Lord 2019.
    I am also providing some basics on how to go about doing it.
    As stated above in a couple of my posts I give a few pointers on how to do it and what shift is best to do it on.

    If a player is worried about locking up the machine when a W2G is issued they should play something that doesn't have this conflict.
    I am pretty sure I covered this in one of the posts above as well.
    I think I stated that you would have to play lower denom which will cause you more hours to be able to put in the coin.
    Even on single line quarters if you play 15 times a month and only need to generate 20k coin in a player should be able to accomplish this in 22 hours with ease.
    This is less than 2 hours per day per card at a rate of playing once every other day.
    These strategies are for players who are playing daily for the most part.
    They are not for players who do not put in the time.
    If time is a factor you either use your own card only while playing higher denom or you take a risk and test the powers that be.
    If I was playing somewhere and I was scolded I would play somewhere else.
    I honestly never run into this problem because I usually only play on Graveyard when these problems do not occur.
    I might go back to that property when those managers are not on duty.
    However I would be cautious of that place for some time.
    When the Westgate got Hot and started 86ing players I just left and never came back.
    I zeroed out all of my comp but I did lose some serious Free Play and offers for a few months.
    This is a risk you take when playing for the backside.
    It has been over a year now for me.
    Sometimes when the heat is around the corner you just leave for a long period of time till things cool off or change.

    From your post it sounds to me like Multi-Carding is not something you are comfortable with.
    No problem with that. That idea or strategy isn't for you.
    Play and Let Play.

    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Some casinos lock up $1,000 royals. It happened to me at Arizona Charlies.
    Machines lock up in a few places at all sorts of locations that are non-taxable.
    This usually isn't a problem because they are not running to the computer to print a W2G and see what name pops up in the computer.
    Usually an attendant can just pay you directly so you usually do not have a problem with anything that is under a taxable.

    Once again though if you are worried about anything that makes you uncomfortable than I suggest you do not partake in that adventure.
    You have to do what you think is right or makes you comfortable.
    The strategy is for those who wish to employ such tactics.
    We all know you are not that guy.

    I have played for many years in most of the Casinos in Nevada.
    I have never had a serious problem for hitting a taxable on someone else's card.
    I may get a question here or there but never a serious problem.
    If asked you can make up all sorts of excuses.
    So many excuses that work I don't want to take the time to list them all right now.
    One favorite is I'm on drugs or I'm too drunk to understand the question.
    This isn't like PA or Iowa or other places problems occur.
    Graveyard is always lax about this issue.
    Pre-Toke helps if you are worried about some issue.
    Cash takes care of many problems no matter what anyone says.

    The Westgate and the El Cortel are two places I would not want to employ such tactics at this time.
    Last edited by monet; 01-22-2019 at 04:17 AM.

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