"If you’re NOT going to tip a person who is working a tip job at least admit that you’re not doing it because you’re cheap. Don’t try to make up some silly excuse that it’s because of some higher principle."
I very much agree with this. I've seen a card counter claim he doesn't tip at restaurants either because he doesn't want to perpetuate tipping culture. As if the option of just not patronizing restaurants doesn't exist...
With all due respect to jbjb, I do not believe anyone doesn't tip because of the miniscule chance it could wind up being construed as evidence of cheating.
I did not raise the question of how much they make, Deech did. Deech argued that the fundamental difference that justifies tipping waiters but not dealers is that waiters often make less than minimum wage while dealers make minimum wage.
The implication seemed to be that waiters depend on tips but dealers don't. But in fact dealers do depend on tips in the sense that they wouldn't do it without tips. So if you partake of the whole casino system without tipping you're freeloading off the people who do tip. I don't think I said anything about fairness although tbh I'm on mobile and can't be bothered to check my previous post
Last edited by mickeycrimm; 03-27-2019 at 11:30 AM.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
All kinds of jobs get tips. Where I come from, if your bootlegging ass don't tip the Sheriff every month, you will not remain in business.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
KJ has said before that he works a 30 casino rotation and makes around 100K per year, at least for the last several years. Now let's see.....100K divided by 30 means he whacks an individual joint for an average of about 3300 per year. Yep, you're right, BH. That there 3300 a year is a damn big attention getter. No way a casino would put up with that shit? I wish my IQ was as high as yours. You got it all figured out.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
I've been on a play for the last two days. Big edge. But the damn machines are configured to handpay anything $500 or over. They've been around handpaying me 6 times now. We're getting to know each other quite well. No one else getting handpayed on this bank. Just me. They're not even smiling anymore when they approach me.
Now, I know what you are thinking, Rob. "That idiot Crimm is tipping those undeserving assholes." Well....you got me there. I have been handing them a little money. But here's the thing, Rob. What you call a tip....I call a....BRIBE. We'll see how long it lasts.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Thank you mickeycrimm. I don't know why any of us even continue to bother with these goof balls. We say green and they hear orange. They hear what they want to hear and they make-up what they want to believe.
My home rotation of Las Vegas casinos is about 30 casinos. Actually 32 at the moment. But they are not all equal. Some I play a couple times a week, while other might only be a couple times a month.
In addition to that I play some out of town casinos. I make a twice annually trip east, playing some PA casinos and occasionally AC. I recently hit Reno for a long weekend. I make short trips through Arizona and California. Maybe once a year a little trip to the Pacific North West. All in all I play over 50 casinos a year, but 30 some is my home rotation.
My top earner last year ($7137,50) was a casino I hit about once a week. If people like blackhole would do the math, they would see that is an average of about $140 a week win. And this was my TOP earning casino. The average win per casino is under $2500....That is about $50 a week. Of course averages don't work exactly like that. There are some bigger sessions and some losing sessions. But all in all this is exactly what identifying and playing levels better tolerated is about, along with short sessions.
It is true that my annual EV for the last 5 years has been just about 100k (slightly less) and my earning over that time pretty close to expectation. But that has included about 20k per year in non-blackjack EV, which I have now all but eliminated. So if I were to put in the same blackjack play without that extra, I would now be looking at EV closer to the 80k neighborhood. I am hoping to play a little more to make up some of that difference, so we'll see how that goes.
Kewlj wrote (and forgive me for not excepting but I'm on my cell):
"My top earner last year ($7137,50) was a casino I hit about once a week. If people like blackhole would do the math, they would see that is an average of about $140 a week win. And this was my TOP earning casino. The average win per casino is under $2500....That is about $50 a week. Of course averages don't work exactly like that. There are some bigger sessions and some losing sessions. But all in all this is exactly what identifying and playing levels better tolerated is about, along with short sessions."
So.... how the hell do you lose $29,000 in a week and $8800 in a day?
I tip bartenders and waiters at the casino all the time.
Hey kj, I’m finally getting around to answering some of your questions. First, no I do not think tipping would have helped this guy last longer, but who knows? Not tipping sure didn’t help him. I was actually surprised the casino waited so long to back him off. I’d have backed him off in the first hour. They let him play much longer than I would have.
My point is what NORMAL person wins over $8,000 (btw, I gave the incorrect amount in case some casino spy was lurking...it was actually much more than that) playing with three incredibly sweet, attractive, down-to-earth dealers and NOT tip one single dollar? At this casino, the dealers make below minimum wage. I’ve played with all three dealers and they NEVER pimp for a tip. They never put any pressure on their customers to tip, and some of their regulars don’t tip. Yes, surpise, surprise, there are some regulars that are just as cheap as some APs. You have to be pretty cold-hearted to not tip after a big win. Or you’ve played so long you’ve lost your compassion for your fellowman or you lost your moral compass or you want to impress your fellow like-minded APs on how much you can win without leaving even a one dollar tip.
One of the dealers I talked to told me he was an AP. Acting naive, I said what is an AP? She correctly explained what AP stands for and told me her experience with this type of person. I told her it sounds like these are some pretty nasty people just traveling around the country taking from local casinos without giving anything back. She said, yeah, most of them don’t tip. I told her they sound kind of like pigeons, just going around crapping on things. She laughed.
I want to be clear I do not believe all APs are like this. Just the other day, I played with a young Card counter and he spread pretty big and tipped regularly. I was actually quite impressed. I thought he certainly didn’t got to any BJA bootcamp, because he wasn’t following any of their guidelines. He played there a couple days and was never backed off. The dealers liked him and mentioned that to me. Did this help him not get backed off? I don’t know? Maybe. I know I played at his table a couple times (I flat bet when I played with him so he wouldn’t know I was a counter too) and I liked the guy. He got how to treat casino personal. He tipped cocktail watrsses and dealers generously, and had a good personality, cheering on the table at the right times. The two times I played with him, he was up a couple thousand and not getting any heat. And he spread from one to two hands at the right times with some big bets. He helped me see what I can get away at this casino in the future.
Are all APs the same? Of course not. But there seems to be a new bread of young counters that actually take pride in not tipping. This is what I’ve found alarming. What other group of people brag about not tipping? I’ve only seen it in the AP world.
Last edited by Bob21; 03-27-2019 at 02:32 PM.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
I think it was Peter Griffen that came up with this witticism:
What is the difference between a professional blackjack player and a canoe?
A canoe tips!
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Bob21 wrote:
"I want to be clear I do not believe all APs are like this. Just the other day, I played with a young Card counter and he spread pretty big and tipped regularly. I was actually quite impressed. I thought he certainly didn’t got to any BJA bootcamp,
because he wasn’t following any of their guidelines. He played there a couple days and was never backed off. The dealers liked him and mentioned that to me. Did this help him not get backed off? I don’t know? Maybe. I know I played at his table a couple time (I flat bet when I played with him so he wouldn’t know I was a counter too) and I liked the guy. He got how to treat casino personal. He tipped cocktail watrsses and dealers generously, and had a good personality, cheering on the table at the right times. The two times I played with him, he was up a couple thousand and not getting any heat. And he spread from one to two hands at the right times with some big bets. He helped me see what I can get away with in the future."
Regarding that last sentence you wrote Bob, I hate to bust your bubble but your current play is already establishing your future for that casino. You will already have an extended record of previous play for the casino to reflect upon. One day when you decide to move up in level of play you will likely find out quickly how little your previous ratholing actually worked. All those dollar tips you are now giving is not buying you extra time, they more than likely look at you and your current play as just a no threat cockroach which they will keep one eye on for a while.
Hey Bosox, I pretty much agree with everything you said, even when you called me a cockroach. Good choice of words by the way. When I’m APing, this is how I feel, like a cockroach, parasite or leach. You can pick you name. I know I’m not adding any value that’s for sure.
That’s why I have a policy to NEVER take too much from a casino in any one month and always tip. I know the casinos are the ones adding the value to our society through jobs, entertainment for the people who play responsible (which is the majority), and revenue for the state and local governments.
What am I doing? Like you said nothing but being a cockroach by trying to extract some money from them while not doing anything of value. Well put Bosox. You’re starting to come around to seeing things the way I do.
Bullshit they are!
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...or-black-hole/
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