Tipping

[monet]

What I am going to get is that I'm an anti AP shyster. Watch.

Is that what you are???

... so it's not like your a KJ supporter.

Is that code for being homosexual?

[mickeycrimm]

I know the casinos are the ones adding the value to our society through jobs, entertainment for the people who play responsible (which is the majority), and revenue for the state and local governments.

Bullshit they are!

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...or-black-hole/

When a casino opens in an area where they are the first then look for bankruptcies in the town to go up about 1500% the first year. And about a third of the women that the town sends to prison will be there for gambling related offenses like embezzlement and theft. Stories in the local newspaper along the lines of "Prominent doctor's wife gambles away their fortune" will start appearing.

[Bob21]

I know the casinos are the ones adding the value to our society through jobs, entertainment for the people who play responsible (which is the majority), and revenue for the state and local governments.

Bullshit they are!

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...or-black-hole/

When a casino opens in an area where they are the first then look for bankruptcies in the town to go up about 1500% the first year. And about a third of the women that the town sends to prison will be there for gambling related offenses like embezzlement and theft. Stories in the local newspaper along the lines of "Prominent doctor's wife gambles away their fortune" will start appearing.

I agree. I get it...I get the downside of what happens with casinos. Everybody knows this. You'd have to be living under a rock to not know this. We shouldn’t be debating this, unless you're from Pluto and don’t know what a casino is.

What you’re both missing is this isn’t the fault of the casino. The casinos are doing what they have been commissioned to do by the State. You should direct your angry at our government for allowing casinos to exists...not the casinos.

Casinos exist as an extension of our government to collect revenue for our government. They are run by private businesses, as an extension of our government. Think of it as a voluntary tax program or a tax program for the stupid, who are usually the poor and vulnerable. This is why conservatives don’t believe in casinos....they hurt the most most vulnerable in our society.

The point being your anger should be directed at our government, not casinos. It makes no sense to be angry at an industry that is doing exactly what it’s business model calls, which is to provide negative EV games for the purpose of entertainment. This isn’t my take on it...this is our governments take on it. It’s the same way they promote lotteries.

This is what I don’t understand about APs. They are all the same, pointing out to me how awful casino’s are. On BJTF someone posted about 10 articles showing me how awful and descructive casino’s are. Ok, I get it. Then if that’s the case, why aren’t APs banning together and trying to get them shut down. How does APing hurt casinos? How does APing help the people APs are so concerned about. Hint. It doesn’t.

Being an AP means your complacent in what casinos do. It gets back to inconsistency. APs are some of the most hypocritical people I know. They always criticize an industry, but do nothing about it. Making money in a casino is adding NO value to society, and it’s NOT helping anybody except the AP. Since gambling is a zero sum game, the only value being created in a casino is entertainment, which is what a casinos does. APs are creating NO value by being in casinos and making money. In fact, they are extracting value when they’re in a casino, since they are taking funds from our government. I get they are doing this legally.

Again, casinos are fulfilling their mission that our government has asked of them. They primary purpose is to provide revenue to the State. And they have done this in spades, by contributing billions in revenue to our state and local governments. If you don’t like this, then you should take it up with our government and try to get casinos shut down.

I know my take on this is not a popular one with APs, but it’s the correct one.

[mickeycrimm]

Bullshit they are!

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...or-black-hole/

When a casino opens in an area where they are the first then look for bankruptcies in the town to go up about 1500% the first year. And about a third of the women that the town sends to prison will be there for gambling related offenses like embezzlement and theft. Stories in the local newspaper along the lines of "Prominent doctor's wife gambles away their fortune" will start appearing.

I agree. I get it...I get the downside of what happens with casinos. Everybody knows this. You'd have to be living under a rock to not know this. We shouldn’t be debating this, unless you're from Pluto and don’t know what a casino is.

What you’re both missing is this isn’t the fault of the casino. The casinos are doing what they have been commissioned to do by the State. You should direct your angry at our government for allowing casinos to exists...not the casinos.

Casinos exist as an extension of our government to collect revenue for our government. They are run by private businesses, as an extension of our government. Think of it as a voluntary tax program or a tax program for the stupid, who are usually the poor and vulnerable. This is why conservatives don’t believe in casinos....they hurt the most most vulnerable in our society.

The point being your anger should be directed at our government, not casinos. It makes no sense to be angry at an industry that is doing exactly what it’s business model calls, which is to provide negative EV games for the purpose of entertainment. This isn’t my take on it...this is our governments take on it. It’s the same way they promote lotteries.

This is what I don’t understand about APs. They are all the same, pointing out to me how awful casino’s are. On BJTF someone posted about 10 articles showing me how awful and descructive casino’s are. Ok, I get it. Then if that’s the case, why aren’t APs banning together and trying to get them shut down. How does APing hurt casinos? How does APing help the people APs are so concerned about. Hint. It doesn’t.

Being an AP means your complacent in what casinos do. It gets back to inconsistency. APs are some of the most hypocritical people I know. They always criticize an industry, but do nothing about it. Making money in a casino is adding NO value to society, and it’s NOT helping anybody except the AP. Since gambling is a zero sum game, the only value being created in a casino is entertainment, which is what a casinos does. APs are creating NO value by being in casinos and making money. In fact, they are extracting value when they’re in a casino, since they are taking funds from our government. I get they are doing this legally.

Again, casinos are fulfilling their mission that our government has asked of them. They primary purpose is to provide revenue to the State. And they have done this in spades, by contributing billions in revenue to our state and local governments. If you don’t like this, then you should take it up with our government and try to get casinos shut down.

I know my take on this is not a popular one with APs, but it’s the correct one.

I wasn't criticizing anything. I was just telling you what to expect when a casino opens in an area that has never had one.

[Bob21]

When a casino opens in an area where they are the first then look for bankruptcies in the town to go up about 1500% the first year. And about a third of the women that the town sends to prison will be there for gambling related offenses like embezzlement and theft. Stories in the local newspaper along the lines of "Prominent doctor's wife gambles away their fortune" will start appearing.

I agree. I get it...I get the downside of what happens with casinos. Everybody knows this. You'd have to be living under a rock to not know this. We shouldn’t be debating this, unless you're from Pluto and don’t know what a casino is.

What you’re both missing is this isn’t the fault of the casino. The casinos are doing what they have been commissioned to do by the State. You should direct your angry at our government for allowing casinos to exists...not the casinos.

Casinos exist as an extension of our government to collect revenue for our government. They are run by private businesses, as an extension of our government. Think of it as a voluntary tax program or a tax program for the stupid, who are usually the poor and vulnerable. This is why conservatives don’t believe in casinos....they hurt the most most vulnerable in our society.

The point being your anger should be directed at our government, not casinos. It makes no sense to be angry at an industry that is doing exactly what it’s business model calls, which is to provide negative EV games for the purpose of entertainment. This isn’t my take on it...this is our governments take on it. It’s the same way they promote lotteries.

This is what I don’t understand about APs. They are all the same, pointing out to me how awful casino’s are. On BJTF someone posted about 10 articles showing me how awful and descructive casino’s are. Ok, I get it. Then if that’s the case, why aren’t APs banning together and trying to get them shut down. How does APing hurt casinos? How does APing help the people APs are so concerned about. Hint. It doesn’t.

Being an AP means your complacent in what casinos do. It gets back to inconsistency. APs are some of the most hypocritical people I know. They always criticize an industry, but do nothing about it. Making money in a casino is adding NO value to society, and it’s NOT helping anybody except the AP. Since gambling is a zero sum game, the only value being created in a casino is entertainment, which is what a casinos does. APs are creating NO value by being in casinos and making money. In fact, they are extracting value when they’re in a casino, since they are taking funds from our government. I get they are doing this legally.

Again, casinos are fulfilling their mission that our government has asked of them. They primary purpose is to provide revenue to the State. And they have done this in spades, by contributing billions in revenue to our state and local governments. If you don’t like this, then you should take it up with our government and try to get casinos shut down.

I know my take on this is not a popular one with APs, but it’s the correct one.

I wasn't criticizing anything. I was just telling you what to expect when a casino opens in an area that has never had one.

I get it. I think everybody gets that. I come from a conservative background. My parents never stepped foot in a casino and were 100% against all types of gambling, which isn’t surprising since my dad was a Baptist minister. My views are different. I like to gamble.

My point is I wish APs would quite pointing out the evils of casinos. I think everybody understands the downsides of what happens when a casino opens in an area.

A casino only opens in a new state or local area because the government allows it. And the government allows it to generate more revenue. It’s that simple. I wish all the people who are upset with casinos would direct their angry at our government and not casinos. Why blame an industry for doing what it’s supposed to do?

[RS__]

I mean really tell me what you want from me Alan? I can spend a couple hours posting some numbers, but I am sure that won't satisfy you.

Kewlj I've always believed that you could make $85,000 or so a year card counting. The problems arise when you provide too many details. In fact it's all the details that draw out the skepticism. It's all the details that sabotage you.

Look at what you've told us and understand how there can be skepticism:

1. You lose $29,000 in a week while you play short hit and run sessions that you describe as a grind. A $29,000 one week grind?

2. You quickly recover the $29,000 and you apparently did it again grinding short hit and run sessions.

3. Your average hit per casino visit is $30 or $50... yet you lost $29,000 in a week and then quickly won it back. That doesn't raise skepticism?

4. You admit to a six month losing streak but recover. Okay, that's doable. But again the recovery comes in grinding short hit and run sessions from 33 casinos at $30 to $50 a pop.

5. You speak of Averages but your average yearly take is under $2500 per casino each year and we have to wonder that you've had huge swings to maintain the averages...

6. And the bottom line is when you have to recover from a weekly loss of $29,000 and when you have to recover from a month or six months of losing, "inquiring minds" must wonder that there's more than $30-$50 casino hits and along with years of doing this you must be known.

7. Heck, they knew my face at Red Rock and Suncoast on my third visits to each casino... but you grind away for 15 years profiting on average $85,000 a year and overcoming $29,000 one week losses and you fly under the radar?

Ya know kewlj, if you just said you make $85,000 a year counting cards there wouldn't be any skepticism. But it's your added detail that sends up the red flares.

You clearly don't know what the word "average" means nor the fact that when doing math, you take positive numbers and subtract away negative numbers. That total, also called a "sum", is then divided by some other number, in KJ's case, 50 (or 52) for the number of weeks. The result of that division process is called a "quotient" which is also the average.

Here's an example: Someone goes up to you and says, "Shalom, my name is Anal m'Endelson. I played at Caesars Palace twice a week for the last 3 years. I hit two royal flushes on $25 denom VP for $100k each. Even though I had big wins, I've already lost $350k there overall. My average loss is a little over $1k per trip or $2k per week, even though I've lost significantly more than that on a single trip."

[Alan Mendelson]

I mean really tell me what you want from me Alan? I can spend a couple hours posting some numbers, but I am sure that won't satisfy you.

Kewlj I've always believed that you could make $85,000 or so a year card counting. The problems arise when you provide too many details. In fact it's all the details that draw out the skepticism. It's all the details that sabotage you.

Look at what you've told us and understand how there can be skepticism:

1. You lose $29,000 in a week while you play short hit and run sessions that you describe as a grind. A $29,000 one week grind?

2. You quickly recover the $29,000 and you apparently did it again grinding short hit and run sessions.

3. Your average hit per casino visit is $30 or $50... yet you lost $29,000 in a week and then quickly won it back. That doesn't raise skepticism?

4. You admit to a six month losing streak but recover. Okay, that's doable. But again the recovery comes in grinding short hit and run sessions from 33 casinos at $30 to $50 a pop.

5. You speak of Averages but your average yearly take is under $2500 per casino each year and we have to wonder that you've had huge swings to maintain the averages...

6. And the bottom line is when you have to recover from a weekly loss of $29,000 and when you have to recover from a month or six months of losing, "inquiring minds" must wonder that there's more than $30-$50 casino hits and along with years of doing this you must be known.

7. Heck, they knew my face at Red Rock and Suncoast on my third visits to each casino... but you grind away for 15 years profiting on average $85,000 a year and overcoming $29,000 one week losses and you fly under the radar?

Ya know kewlj, if you just said you make $85,000 a year counting cards there wouldn't be any skepticism. But it's your added detail that sends up the red flares.

You clearly don't know what the word "average" means nor the fact that when doing math, you take positive numbers and subtract away negative numbers. That total, also called a "sum", is then divided by some other number, in KJ's case, 50 (or 52) for the number of weeks. The result of that division process is called a "quotient" which is also the average.

Here's an example: Someone goes up to you and says, "Shalom, my name is Anal m'Endelson. I played at Caesars Palace twice a week for the last 3 years. I hit two royal flushes on $25 denom VP for $100k each. Even though I had big wins, I've already lost $350k there overall. My average loss is a little over $1k per trip or $2k per week, even though I've lost significantly more than that on a single trip."

Putting aside your wise ass anti semitic remark, what you presented as an explanation is far different from playing 33 casinos with short hit snd run sessions with bets that fly under the radar of $500 each, that also recover from six months losing streaks and $29,000 one week losses.

Kewlj brought the skepticism upon himself.

By the way, RS, not only are you an anti semitic pig but the numbers you use in your example are wrong. But it was a nice try sticking up for your AP buddy.

No, the bottom line is the same. Kewlj may have indeed won $85,000 a year betting up to $400 a hand at bkackjack... but the overly dramatic story of hit and runs at 33 different casinos and recovering from big loss swings while flying under the radar for 15 years is just too much for reasonable minds to absorb.

[Alan Mendelson]

Winning days: 650, 837.50, 1575, 600, 425, 1875, 2425, 225, 537.50, 1200, 3375, 112.50, 475, 700, 825, 662.50, 275, 700, 1112.50, 12.50, 825, 350, 1075, 262.50, 3350, 512.50, 450, 275, 400

Losing days: -2125, -425, -775, 0, -225, -312.50, -625, -1725, -2425, -162.50, -850, -1462.50, 0, -2250, -1050, -337.50, 0, -3275, -200, -475, -112.50, -150

I hope I didn't make a mistake transferring numbers or god forbid, Mr "gottch ya" would jump on it.

The 29 winning days total, 26,100. Subtract the 22 losing (and zero) days total of 18,962.50 and I showed a total profit of 7137.50 at this casino in 2018.

7137.50 total profit divided by 51 visits or sessions equals an AVERAGE of 139.95 per visit. What did I estimate $140 per visit?

Got it Alan? see how this works?

Yes, I see how this works. 51 visits and you still claim to fly under the radar?

As I told you... after just three visits to Suncoast and Red Rock they knew who I was and even the cocktail waitresses knew I had cranberry juice without ice.

But you, playing green and black up to $400 a hand are unknown, while I'm playing $5 and $10 craps gets tagged?

[RS__]

Well, you ARE a former dealer RS. So it is not surprising you still have a little pro-dealer attitude about tipping. If I remember from a few years ago, you are getting a little better though. Maybe another 5 years and you will be with the rest of us non-tippers.

I am sure that "let me tip you red and then NOT" trick goes over well. You do know the object is to not do anything that makes out stand out as far as memory right?

But your point is valid. One time when I tipped a couple white chips (bet for the dealer), I had a dealer say "thanks now I can buy a newspaper".

Dealers have a set amount in their mind that they THINK you should tip them. If you are betting $50-$100 range they think you should be betting red for them, especially after a few wins or a blackjack. If you are betting $400-$500 range, they think it should be green. If you bet less than these amounts, they don't appreciate it and let you know, even if you don't say so.

This entitlement attitude to a percentage is what really turned me off quite a while ago. First why would they be "entitled" to more from players betting more. They are turning over the cards. If that is worthy of a tip it is a couple white chips bet every so often. Hell a few white chips bet from every customer would amount to $30/hr with table turnover. Plus their base salary. But they really are not satisfied with that amount from players playing green or above. And Las Vegas is the worse. Far more tip hustlers and dealers 'expecting' more.

And for anyone making the argument that dealers are part of the fun and entertainment value. NOT my experience! If anything I should be getting the tip from the dealer for sitting there playing therapist while they tell me all their problems and complaints.

I won a match-bet (or freebet i don't remember) for like $400 back in the day, on craps. Asked for black, dealer said it's customary to tip after a big win (dafaq?). I inquired more about what he meant....so of course, I asked him to break down a few blacks for me so I had a few greens and many whites & reds. I just took them all to the cage.

Of course there are many dealers who are just straight up awful (ie: for tip hustling or not being appreciative of tips that are small in proportion to session win or average bet). If you're going to make an argument against tipping for that, then go ahead. I have no problem there. Just don't try to make up some other excuse like, "They're just doing their job that they are getting paid to do" or some other nonsense, because IIRC, you say that you tip other people who are also getting paid to do their job (cocktail waitresses, restaurant servers, bartenders at the Phoenix etc.).

[RS__]

Kewlj I've always believed that you could make $85,000 or so a year card counting. The problems arise when you provide too many details. In fact it's all the details that draw out the skepticism. It's all the details that sabotage you.

Look at what you've told us and understand how there can be skepticism:

1. You lose $29,000 in a week while you play short hit and run sessions that you describe as a grind. A $29,000 one week grind?

2. You quickly recover the $29,000 and you apparently did it again grinding short hit and run sessions.

3. Your average hit per casino visit is $30 or $50... yet you lost $29,000 in a week and then quickly won it back. That doesn't raise skepticism?

4. You admit to a six month losing streak but recover. Okay, that's doable. But again the recovery comes in grinding short hit and run sessions from 33 casinos at $30 to $50 a pop.

5. You speak of Averages but your average yearly take is under $2500 per casino each year and we have to wonder that you've had huge swings to maintain the averages...

6. And the bottom line is when you have to recover from a weekly loss of $29,000 and when you have to recover from a month or six months of losing, "inquiring minds" must wonder that there's more than $30-$50 casino hits and along with years of doing this you must be known.

7. Heck, they knew my face at Red Rock and Suncoast on my third visits to each casino... but you grind away for 15 years profiting on average $85,000 a year and overcoming $29,000 one week losses and you fly under the radar?

Ya know kewlj, if you just said you make $85,000 a year counting cards there wouldn't be any skepticism. But it's your added detail that sends up the red flares.

You clearly don't know what the word "average" means nor the fact that when doing math, you take positive numbers and subtract away negative numbers. That total, also called a "sum", is then divided by some other number, in KJ's case, 50 (or 52) for the number of weeks. The result of that division process is called a "quotient" which is also the average.

Here's an example: Someone goes up to you and says, "Shalom, my name is Anal m'Endelson. I played at Caesars Palace twice a week for the last 3 years. I hit two royal flushes on $25 denom VP for $100k each. Even though I had big wins, I've already lost $350k there overall. My average loss is a little over $1k per trip or $2k per week, even though I've lost significantly more than that on a single trip."

Putting aside your wise ass anti semitic remark, what you presented as an explanation is far different from playing 33 casinos with short hit snd run sessions with bets that fly under the radar of $500 each, that also recover from six months losing streaks and $29,000 one week losses.

Kewlj brought the skepticism upon himself.

By the way, RS, not only are you an anti semitic pig but the numbers you use in your example are wrong. But it was a nice try sticking up for your AP buddy.

No, the bottom line is the same. Kewlj may have indeed won $85,000 a year betting up to $400 a hand at bkackjack... but the overly dramatic story of hit and runs at 33 different casinos and recovering from big loss swings while flying under the radar for 15 years is just too much for reasonable minds to absorb.

What part was anti-Semitic? And what numbers are wrong? I've been up for a while now, but my calculator is still showing 350000/(52*3*2) = 1121...


Alan, nothing about your mind is "reasonable", it's just crazy to think the way you think. You're constantly wrong on gambling and AP stuff and, as succinctly as I can describe it: You just don't get it and you never will.


Please do not call me a pig. In my culture, we cherish them because they are very tasty. Please don't be disrespectful. Thank you in advance.

[UCFX]

First off. Kudos to KJ for going to the trouble of listing his numbers. As a working citizen in the corporate world, there are hundreds of "atta boys" which mean nothing. But 3 "aw, fucks" and you're out the door.

KJs Winning days: 650, 837.50, 1575, 600, 425, 1875, 2425, 225, 537.50, 1200, 3375, 112.50, 475, 700, 825, 662.50, 275, 700, 1112.50, 12.50, 825, 350, 1075, 262.50, 3350, 512.50, 450, 275, 400

Since Bob 21 seems to know the inside view of casinos, he may have a more concrete view from their perspective.

From a numbers perspective and blackjack playing standpoint, I'm told that losing days don't matter. From a casino point of view, that is what is suppose to happen. Hence, the atta boys. However, there are 9 winning days exceeding $1,000 over the course of one year. There are definitely 3 aw fucks and quite possibly 5. A tight casino there are likely 9 days.

So we still have $93k to go with no mention of the $29k losing week and $8,800 losing day. But let's take the minimum assumption of just 3 aw fucks a year. That is 30 over the course of 10 years in just 1 casino. With such detailed records, it would be interesting to know what constitutes his start and stoppage of play and length of session.

Also, the two largest winning days out of 51 visits is the majority of his profit for the entire year. I doubt he zoomed in and out on those two days without being noticed and someone getting their ass chewed.

[BoSox]

Bullshit they are!

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...or-black-hole/

When a casino opens in an area where they are the first then look for bankruptcies in the town to go up about 1500% the first year. And about a third of the women that the town sends to prison will be there for gambling related offenses like embezzlement and theft. Stories in the local newspaper along the lines of "Prominent doctor's wife gambles away their fortune" will start appearing.

I agree. I get it...I get the downside of what happens with casinos. Everybody knows this. You'd have to be living under a rock to not know this. We shouldn’t be debating this, unless you're from Pluto and don’t know what a casino is.

I thought you were consistent Bob, it turns out you are not. Look what you just said in the above quote but earlier in post #79 you wrote:


"That’s why I have a policy to NEVER take too much from a casino in any one month and always tip. I know the casinos are the ones adding the value to our society through jobs, entertainment for the people who play responsible (which is the majority), and revenue for the state and local governments."



If the MAJORITY of players are RESPONSIBLE in their gaming budgets how the fuck are all these small towns and cities economies devistated and ruined Bob? You can't have it both ways.

[Alan Mendelson]

Digest this RS. I've highlighted your anti semitic remark and just one example of your incorrect numbers.

"Shalom, my name is Anal m'Endelson. I played at Caesars Palace twice a week for the last 3 years. I hit two royal flushes on $25 denom VP for $100k each. Even though I had big wins, I've already lost $350k there overall. My average loss is a little over $1k per trip or $2k per week, even though I've lost significantly more than that on a single trip."

But why get tied up with this. Let's focus on what's important which is kewlj's claim. Sure he might have won $85,000 a year... and why not? But it's his entire package of claims that isn't reasonable including and perhaps the most doubtful of all that he FLIES UNDER THE RADAR.

Sorry, RS, but it's just too much to handle, don't you think? After all, you were a dealer, right? Would you start to recognize the same patron after three visits, or four? How about a green and black chip bettor after 51 visits in a year? How about a green and black chip bettor after 51 visits over 15 years?

Are you really calling me unreasonable?

By the way, the glazed ham at the Suncoast breakfast buffet (carved to order) was surprisingly tasty.

[Alan Mendelson]

Also, the two largest winning days out of 51 visits is the majority of his profit for the entire year. I doubt he zoomed in and out on those two days without being noticed and someone getting their ass chewed.

Yet he flies under the radar?

He should have quit after simply saying he wins $85,000 a year.

[mcap]

Perhaps he’s careful about switching shifts and personnel he’s playing in front of within those shifts rather than going at 7am on a weekday with a name tag saying, “Hi, I’m Alan.”
Or maybe there’s plenty that are familiar with him but don’t really give a shit, so he tries to play more in front of those types.

[Alan Mendelson]

Perhaps he’s careful about switching shifts and personnel he’s playing in front of within those shifts rather than going at 7am on a weekday with a name tag saying, “Hi, I’m Alan.”
Or maybe there’s plenty that are familiar with him but don’t really give a shit, so he tries to play more in front of those types.

Keep making excuses. You can come up with hundreds of them if you want to.

[BoSox]

No mickeycrimm I'm not clueless. I didn't win the Janus Award for Economics Reporting for being clueless. And I didn't blow the whistle on how the Bureau of Labor Statistics screwed around with the Unemployment rate and the wholesale price index... forcing the BLS to revise both. That was me who investigated and reported on CBS News.

Alan, you seem like a really smart guy, can you figure this baffling puzzle out. You have these 5 gaming websites which include this one. three of those sites have about a hundred ACTIVE members one about 25 and one site only has one active member which site has the most volume of posts made per day, week and per month? You already know the answer and so does everyone else but only you could possibly explain the reason. While you are at it can you explain why that site's threads are also the most read by volume?

Bosox, I’m having a hard time following you. Could you please write in plain English, rather than in code or as a riddle? What was this post about? It looks like it could be interesting if I could figure out what you’re saying.

I understand you’re the defacto forum defective, but at some point you need to learn to communicate with the average Joe...or Bob.

Bob, to put it another way, Moses the person you idolize " only using a false perception" and makes all those numerous stupid post, do you think he may be just wired a little too tight? With, would you say, a little bit of pent up anger and hostility from personal matters that has been lingering far too long? Subsequently he is trying to take it out on blackjack players who are not responsible for all his poor choices in life.

[BoSox]

[QUOTE=Alan Mendelson;85593]

Kewlj I've always believed that you could make $85,000 or so a year card counting. The problems arise when you provide too many details. In fact it's all the details that draw out the skepticism. It's all the details that sabotage you.

Look at what you've told us and understand how there can be skepticism:

1. You lose $29,000 in a week while you play short hit and run sessions that you describe as a grind. A $29,000 one week grind?

2. You quickly recover the $29,000 and you apparently did it again grinding short hit and run sessions.

3. Your average hit per casino visit is $30 or $50... yet you lost $29,000 in a week and then quickly won it back. That doesn't raise skepticism?

4. You admit to a six month losing streak but recover. Okay, that's doable. But again the recovery comes in grinding short hit and run sessions from 33 casinos at $30 to $50 a pop.

5. You speak of Averages but your average yearly take is under $2500 per casino each year and we have to wonder that you've had huge swings to maintain the averages...

6. And the bottom line is when you have to recover from a weekly loss of $29,000 and when you have to recover from a month or six months of losing, "inquiring minds" must wonder that there's more than $30-$50 casino hits and along with years of doing this you must be known.

7. Heck, they knew my face at Red Rock and Suncoast on my third visits to each casino... but you grind away for 15 years profiting on average $85,000 a year and overcoming $29,000 one week losses and you fly under the radar?

Ya know kewlj, if you just said you make $85,000 a year counting cards there wouldn't be any skepticism. But it's your added detail that sends up the red flares.

No, the bottom line is the same. Kewlj may have indeed won $85,000 a year betting up to $400 a hand at bkackjack... but the overly dramatic story of hit and runs at 33 different casinos and recovering from big loss swings while flying under the radar for 15 years is just too much for reasonable minds to absorb.

If that story is so far fetched to you Alan, How do you explain Moses flying under the radar? While playing single deck Blackjack in Reno for over a decade with a rotation of only 5 casinos, is that story not bizarre to you Allan?

[Bob21]

When a casino opens in an area where they are the first then look for bankruptcies in the town to go up about 1500% the first year. And about a third of the women that the town sends to prison will be there for gambling related offenses like embezzlement and theft. Stories in the local newspaper along the lines of "Prominent doctor's wife gambles away their fortune" will start appearing.

I agree. I get it...I get the downside of what happens with casinos. Everybody knows this. You'd have to be living under a rock to not know this. We shouldn’t be debating this, unless you're from Pluto and don’t know what a casino is.

I thought you were consistent Bob, it turns out you are not. Look what you just said in the above quote but earlier in post #79 you wrote:


"That’s why I have a policy to NEVER take too much from a casino in any one month and always tip. I know the casinos are the ones adding the value to our society through jobs, entertainment for the people who play responsible (which is the majority), and revenue for the state and local governments."



If the MAJORITY of players are RESPONSIBLE in their gaming budgets how the fuck are all these small towns and cities economies devistated and ruined Bob? You can't have it both ways.

Bosox, how is what I’m saying inconsistent? I’m not following you. Please explain.

If everybody played the casino games in a negative EV (the way the games were intended to be played), then state and local governments would have more revenue. That’s a fact. Why? Because casinos would pay more tax on their profits.

The reality is APs have found a way to play these games in a positive EV way and extract revenue from casinos (and thus revenue from state and local governments).

In addition, the reality is there are not that many APs so casinos can absorb that lost and it doesn’t devastate their cites and town’s economies. But these cites and towns would be better off if APs didn’t exists.

This is why I’ve called APs parasites and I include myself in that description when I’m APing. We are PARASITES, living off the host (casinos), which is feeding money to our government. The casino host (or government) can support a couple parasites, but they can’t support a lot of parasites.

It’s similar to people on welfare. Our economy is still fairly robust even thought we’re supporting quite a few people on welfare. People on welfare contribute nothing to the economy, similar to APs. This is not a statement against welfare. But when the number on welfare becomes too big, economies collapse. Look at what is happening in Europe, specifically Greece. Greece’s economy collapsed because the whole country became parasites, and had to be bailed out by the EU.

This is one reason I’m against business models like BJA that recruit and train more parasites (think APs). Just as our country doesn’t need more people on welfare, our country definitely doesn’t need more APs.

[Alan Mendelson]

[QUOTE=BoSox;85605]

No, the bottom line is the same. Kewlj may have indeed won $85,000 a year betting up to $400 a hand at bkackjack... but the overly dramatic story of hit and runs at 33 different casinos and recovering from big loss swings while flying under the radar for 15 years is just too much for reasonable minds to absorb.

If that story is so far fetched to you Alan, How do you explain Moses flying under the radar? While playing single deck Blackjack in Reno for over a decade with a rotation of only 5 casinos, is that story not bizarre to you Allan?

Yes. It is bizarre.

Quite frankly if you see someone three times there's a high chance you'll recognize them again. This is one of the principles of advertising. There is a certain tipping point when something registers. In TV, a visual medium, it's three times. In radio, it's 8 times.

I put the question to RS. I'd like to see his answer. I'm sure he'll tell us he recognizes a player after three visits.