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Thread: What Does Everyone Think About the 2020 Presidential Candidates

  1. #41
    Redietz, I agree with you, this has nothing to do with a liberal versus conservative debate. Every president has made some ridiculous gaffes in their speeaches. I mean George W Bush Jr probably is the record holder in this, or at least in mangling the English language.

    But I just don’t see this as a big deal. After I read your post, I went on the internet to read up on it. Yes, to the more enlightened Americans they are going to know the star spangled banner was inspired by the War of 1812. But I really believe average Joe American would probably associate the Star Spangled Banner with the Revolutionary War. I mean 1776 and 1812 are not that far apart. I real gaffe would have been putting it during one of the World Wars.

    I could see a speech writer making this mistake, and it being missed by the people who proofread the speeach. I mean this was an off the cuff speech for Independence Day. It was not some State of the Union speeach. One speech writer probably made this blunder, and the proofers missed it. It happens. I don’t see the big deal.

    For the record, I do think this history is far above 5th grader level. I’d bet you a lot of money most high school students would get it wrong if you’d ask them what war inspired the Star Spangled banner. I get for you it’s somrthing that is ingrained in your mind. It is for me too, since I’ve visited Ft Mchenry when my parents visited me. My dad’s a big history buff. But before I visited Ft McHenry, I don’t know if I’d have remembered the war that inspired the Star Spangled banner. Yes, we learned it sometime during grade school, but it’s not like we take refresher courses on this stuff.
    Last edited by Bob21; 07-05-2019 at 06:16 AM.

  2. #42
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I have a question. How can you get Ft. McHenry and which war wrong? I'm about the most ignorant person when it comes to American history, and I couldn't get that wrong.

    I don't really care about the riff regarding airports and such. That might have been an in-the-moment spontaneity that went awry. But I am worried about who wrote the speech yesterday, and the obvious lack of simple fact checkers vis-ŗ-vis American history. I assume someone other than Trump wrote it, and I have to assume multiple people read it beforehand. So how can a U.S. president get tagged with a historical boner like that? Does no one around him really know that Ft. McHenry and the Star Spangled Banner were about the War of 1812?

    I just do not get it. I mean, I am truly awful at American history. I'd be banned from fifth grade Jeopardy for incompetence if there were history questions. What is the mechanism by which nobody caught that? That is the worst factual error in a presidential speech of which I'm aware, and it came on Independence Day. What the hell?
    redietz, all presidents make gaffes during their speeches. I mean Obama once said there were 57 states. Talk about a boner. I bet more people know the number of states in our country than know Ft. McHenry was about the War of 1812 and the Star Spangled Banner. In fact, I'll bet most Americans think the Star Spangled Banner was about the Revolutionary war rather than the War of 1812. It'd be an interesting poll question. This is far above 5th grade history. I probably wouldn't have known this if I hadn't visited Ft McHenry when I lived in Baltimore.

    Who knows Trump might have done that on purpose to get the liberals riled up? He likes to use hyperbole and make little misstatements to get the press's panties in knots. Conservatives could care less. They think it's funny and look at the big picture.

    For more of Obama's gaffes, I've attached a link. Obama also though Hawaii is in Asia, and said many other stupid things, which all went unnoticed by the liberal press.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ot-for-laughs/
    I'll engage on this, as it's not about liberals and conservatives, and it's not directly about Trump, at least not to me. You're missing my point, Bob21. I wasn't concerned with the president making a "gaffe." The gaffes with Obama you're referencing are when he's saying something spontaneously. Everybody fucks up occasionally when they are riffing. That's why I don't care about the airport comment by Trump. I'm sure the airport comment wasn't written into the speech.

    What concerns me is the mechanism by which an actual speech can include the Ft. McHenry comment. I have to think Trump didn't just insert that off the top of his head. That would be highly unlikely. I'm sure Obama's actual 57 state comment wasn't written into the speech. But this Ft. McHenry thing appears to have been built into the speech.

    I do not blame Trump for this, although he's left holding the bag. I blame whatever mechanism hires a speechwriter lacking a fifth grade knowledge of history and whatever mechanism allows the speech to go unedited. It implies a real disorganized lack of responsibilities around Trump or some real historical idiocy. I don't know which. The speechwriter should be fired today, unless Trump inserted that in the moment, which I think has about a 5% chance of being the case. And everybody who vetted the speech should be fired.

    So no, I don't blame Trump. I'm just amazed that somebody writing speeches for the president can be so ignorant. It blows my mind. And no, this is not above fifth grade history. It's ridiculous. Can you imagine the blowback on this piddly forum (coach belly, are you listening?) if I had said Ft. McHenry was during the Revolutionary War? I'd get tarred and feathered.

    I just do not understand the mechanism that allowed that into a speech. If you are really into conspiracy theories where every stupid error is on purpose, well, God bless you...and Ft. McHenry. Isn't that where they dumped the tea?
    They either missed their plane that day or the army captured all the airport's-thus leading to the main misinformation!

  3. #43
    5th grade history? I don't think so. Were have you been for the last fifty years reditz?
    I'll miss Alan's profound stupidity.

  4. #44
    Ask a 5th grader about gender fluidity.
    I'll miss Alan's profound stupidity.

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Redietz, I agree with you, this has nothing to do with a liberal versus conservative debate. Every president has made some ridiculous gaffes in their speeaches. I mean George W Bush Jr probably is the record holder in this, or at least in mangling the English language.

    But I just don’t see this as a big deal. After I read your post, I went on the internet to read up on it. Yes, to the more enlightened Americans they are going to know the star spangled banner was inspired by the War of 1812. But I really believe average Joe American would probably associate the Star Spangled Banner with the Revolutionary War. I mean 1776 and 1812 are not that far apart. I real gaffe would have been putting it during one of the World Wars.

    I could see a speech writer making this mistake, and it being missed by the people who proofread the speeach. I mean this was an off the cuff speech for Independence Day. It was not some State of the Union speeach. One speech writer probably made this blunder, and the proofers missed it. It happens. I don’t see the big deal.

    For the record, I do think this history is far above 5th grader level. I’d bet you a lot of money most high school students would get it wrong if you’d ask them what war inspired the Star Spangled banner. I get for you it’s somrthing that is ingrained in your mind. It is for me too, since I’ve visited Ft Mchenry when my parents visited me. My dad’s a big history buff. But before I visited Ft McHenry, I don’t know if I’d have remembered the war that inspired the Star Spangled banner. Yes, we learned it sometime during grade school, but it’s not like we take refresher courses on this stuff.
    Jesus, no wonder you have such a low opinion of journalists. Nobody doing any kind of writing professionally should make that mistake. You would be in danger of being fired from any major newspaper for making that error in an Independence Day piece. The idea that a speechwriter for the president, and the people vetting the speech, would all just whiff on it is absolutely frightening. If they don't know American history at all, what do they know about world history?

    As for the Star Spangled Banner, if you don't know it was written vis-ŗ-vis the War of 1812, then you also don't know the core reason no African-American should be standing up during its playing.

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Redietz, I agree with you, this has nothing to do with a liberal versus conservative debate. Every president has made some ridiculous gaffes in their speeaches. I mean George W Bush Jr probably is the record holder in this, or at least in mangling the English language.

    But I just donít see this as a big deal. After I read your post, I went on the internet to read up on it. Yes, to the more enlightened Americans they are going to know the star spangled banner was inspired by the War of 1812. But I really believe average Joe American would probably associate the Star Spangled Banner with the Revolutionary War. I mean 1776 and 1812 are not that far apart. I real gaffe would have been putting it during one of the World Wars.

    I could see a speech writer making this mistake, and it being missed by the people who proofread the speeach. I mean this was an off the cuff speech for Independence Day. It was not some State of the Union speeach. One speech writer probably made this blunder, and the proofers missed it. It happens. I donít see the big deal.

    For the record, I do think this history is far above 5th grader level. Iíd bet you a lot of money most high school students would get it wrong if youíd ask them what war inspired the Star Spangled banner. I get for you itís somrthing that is ingrained in your mind. It is for me too, since Iíve visited Ft Mchenry when my parents visited me. My dadís a big history buff. But before I visited Ft McHenry, I donít know if Iíd have remembered the war that inspired the Star Spangled banner. Yes, we learned it sometime during grade school, but itís not like we take refresher courses on this stuff.
    Jesus, no wonder you have such a low opinion of journalists. Nobody doing any kind of writing professionally should make that mistake. You would be in danger of being fired from any major newspaper for making that error in an Independence Day piece. The idea that a speechwriter for the president, and the people vetting the speech, would all just whiff on it is absolutely frightening. If they don't know American history at all, what do they know about world history?

    As for the Star Spangled Banner, if you don't know it was written vis-ŗ-vis the War of 1812, then you also don't know the core reason no African-American should be standing up during its playing.
    Okay so you want to go down this road. The controversy of the four missing verses in the Star Spangled Banner that mentions slavery misses the point. You need to take this in context of that time. It was 1812 when slavery was still around. This is what journalists have a hard time doing. Putting things in the context of history.

    African-Americanís should stand up and salute everytime they hear the Star Spangled Banner. Why? Because America and Americaís ideals is why slavery has pretty much been eradicated around the world. The Star Spangled Banner represents America and why African-Americans and people around the world have their freedom. Did it take us a while to get there? Sure. I mean slavery had been around since the beginning of human civilization so itís not going to go away overnight. It took a civil war and more deaths than in both World Wars to finall put an end to it in America. As Iím sure you know, the Republican Party was founded on the anti-slavery platform since both parties (Wiggs and Democates) at the time pretty much ignored it.

    You got to be put peopleís actions and thoughts in context of the history they livied in. At the time America became a nation, slavery or indentured survents was part of all cultures. This is especially true in Africa. I could spend a lot of time debating you on this topic because Iíve spent a lot of time researching it, and giving lectures on it. About the only place in the world where slavery still exists today is in parts of Africa. And MWP this isnít a racist statement; itís fact.

    The problem is people (mostly stupid journists) judge people in the past on the standards of today. Slavery (or something like slavery, speaking like Rob) was part of most cultures. Are you going to mention Thomas Jefferson owned slaves too? This is another go-to-statements liberals make showing Americans was and is racists.

    Is America perfect. Of course not. Judged against utopia America falls far short. But judge America against any other country in the world and itís not even close. After America became a nation, other countries in Europe and other places around the world tried to follow our example, and get rid of slavary.

    As far as the Trump speech mistake, I can see how something like this happens. Itís usually the things you think you know for sure that you donít look up. I expect the speech writer, not thinking, just assumed Star Spangled Banner was connected to the Revolutionary War. Again, not s big deal to me. But apperntly it was to you. Weíre all different.

  7. #47
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I have a question. How can you get Ft. McHenry and which war wrong? I'm about the most ignorant person when it comes to American history, and I couldn't get that wrong.

    I don't really care about the riff regarding airports and such. That might have been an in-the-moment spontaneity that went awry. But I am worried about who wrote the speech yesterday, and the obvious lack of simple fact checkers vis-ŗ-vis American history. I assume someone other than Trump wrote it, and I have to assume multiple people read it beforehand. So how can a U.S. president get tagged with a historical boner like that? Does no one around him really know that Ft. McHenry and the Star Spangled Banner were about the War of 1812?

    I just do not get it. I mean, I am truly awful at American history. I'd be banned from fifth grade Jeopardy for incompetence if there were history questions. What is the mechanism by which nobody caught that? That is the worst factual error in a presidential speech of which I'm aware, and it came on Independence Day. What the hell?
    redietz, all presidents make gaffes during their speeches. I mean Obama once said there were 57 states. Talk about a boner. I bet more people know the number of states in our country than know Ft. McHenry was about the War of 1812 and the Star Spangled Banner. In fact, I'll bet most Americans think the Star Spangled Banner was about the Revolutionary war rather than the War of 1812. It'd be an interesting poll question. This is far above 5th grade history. I probably wouldn't have known this if I hadn't visited Ft McHenry when I lived in Baltimore.

    Who knows Trump might have done that on purpose to get the liberals riled up? He likes to use hyperbole and make little misstatements to get the press's panties in knots. Conservatives could care less. They think it's funny and look at the big picture.

    For more of Obama's gaffes, I've attached a link. Obama also though Hawaii is in Asia, and said many other stupid things, which all went unnoticed by the liberal press.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ot-for-laughs/
    I'll engage on this, as it's not about liberals and conservatives, and it's not directly about Trump, at least not to me. You're missing my point, Bob21. I wasn't concerned with the president making a "gaffe." The gaffes with Obama you're referencing are when he's saying something spontaneously. Everybody fucks up occasionally when they are riffing. That's why I don't care about the airport comment by Trump. I'm sure the airport comment wasn't written into the speech.

    What concerns me is the mechanism by which an actual speech can include the Ft. McHenry comment. I have to think Trump didn't just insert that off the top of his head. That would be highly unlikely. I'm sure Obama's actual 57 state comment wasn't written into the speech. But this Ft. McHenry thing appears to have been built into the speech.

    I do not blame Trump for this, although he's left holding the bag. I blame whatever mechanism hires a speechwriter lacking a fifth grade knowledge of history and whatever mechanism allows the speech to go unedited. It implies a real disorganized lack of responsibilities around Trump or some real historical idiocy. I don't know which. The speechwriter should be fired today, unless Trump inserted that in the moment, which I think has about a 5% chance of being the case. And everybody who vetted the speech should be fired.

    So no, I don't blame Trump. I'm just amazed that somebody writing speeches for the president can be so ignorant. It blows my mind. And no, this is not above fifth grade history. It's ridiculous. Can you imagine the blowback on this piddly forum (coach belly, are you listening?) if I had said Ft. McHenry was during the Revolutionary War? I'd get tarred and feathered.

    I just do not understand the mechanism that allowed that into a speech. If you are really into conspiracy theories where every stupid error is on purpose, well, God bless you...and Ft. McHenry. Isn't that where they dumped the tea?
    How about the rest of the history in the speech? Was any of that wrong?
    Luck is probability taken personally.

  8. #48
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Redietz, I agree with you, this has nothing to do with a liberal versus conservative debate. Every president has made some ridiculous gaffes in their speeaches. I mean George W Bush Jr probably is the record holder in this, or at least in mangling the English language.

    But I just don’t see this as a big deal. After I read your post, I went on the internet to read up on it. Yes, to the more enlightened Americans they are going to know the star spangled banner was inspired by the War of 1812. But I really believe average Joe American would probably associate the Star Spangled Banner with the Revolutionary War. I mean 1776 and 1812 are not that far apart. I real gaffe would have been putting it during one of the World Wars.

    I could see a speech writer making this mistake, and it being missed by the people who proofread the speeach. I mean this was an off the cuff speech for Independence Day. It was not some State of the Union speeach. One speech writer probably made this blunder, and the proofers missed it. It happens. I don’t see the big deal.

    For the record, I do think this history is far above 5th grader level. I’d bet you a lot of money most high school students would get it wrong if you’d ask them what war inspired the Star Spangled banner. I get for you it’s somrthing that is ingrained in your mind. It is for me too, since I’ve visited Ft Mchenry when my parents visited me. My dad’s a big history buff. But before I visited Ft McHenry, I don’t know if I’d have remembered the war that inspired the Star Spangled banner. Yes, we learned it sometime during grade school, but it’s not like we take refresher courses on this stuff.
    Jesus, no wonder you have such a low opinion of journalists. Nobody doing any kind of writing professionally should make that mistake. You would be in danger of being fired from any major newspaper for making that error in an Independence Day piece. The idea that a speechwriter for the president, and the people vetting the speech, would all just whiff on it is absolutely frightening. If they don't know American history at all, what do they know about world history?

    As for the Star Spangled Banner, if you don't know it was written vis-ŗ-vis the War of 1812, then you also don't know the core reason no African-American should be standing up during its playing.
    Trump said the teleprompter was wet and hard to read and at times went completely out so he went by memory. One thing I noticed as I half listened to the speech while on my computer was a lot of the time he didn't have his normal rythm and cadence.
    Luck is probability taken personally.

  9. #49
    Nope. God bless America!

  10. #50
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Nope. God bless America!
    WTF do you mean by nope? Oh yeah, you a lefty bag of shit that pushes the myth that Trump lies about everything. Fuck you, bitch. Go suck some socialist dick.
    Luck is probability taken personally.

  11. #51
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Nope. God bless America!
    WTF do you mean by nope? Oh yeah, you a lefty bag of shit that pushes the myth that Trump lies about everything. Fuck you, bitch. Go suck some socialist dick.
    You stupid dumbass- you asked if anything was wrong with the rest of the speech. I posted directly after that- don't know how your teleprompter post preceded mine. You're such a shithead jerk.

  12. #52
    From what I observed so far about 90% of this forum seems to be hard core conservative. While just the opposite seems to be true at BJ21 where at least 90% are liberal. This site is mostly machine players while BJ21 is mostly card counters.

  13. #53
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    From what I observed so far about 90% of this forum seems to be hard core conservative. While just the opposite seems to be true at BJ21 where at least 90% are liberal. This site is mostly machine players while BJ21 is mostly card counters.
    MWP, I think that’s a fair assessment. You can tell Norm and Don are left-wingers. And Ed Thorp is so far to the left, I couldn’t even get through his book “The Man for all Markets”. When I was reading his book, I had to every once and a while put it down and hit my head on the wall. I thought this guy is fairly intelligent, he can’t really believe this stuff. It’s interesting that so many of the blackjack greats are liberals. They’ve probably been living in the northeast too long.

    That’s why I think Freightman fits in so well over there on BJTF. You can tell he’s Norm and Don’s pet. Freightman is so far to the left, he probably carries a socialist or communist card.

    Anyway, it’s good to see some like-minded conservatives over here. I have noticed Bosox does learn more to the conservative side, which is good to see. Now we just need to get you straightened out with all this liberal mobo-jumbo stuff and we’ll be good to go. It’s still a year away before the next election. Maybe we can get you straightened out enough that you’ll be the first in line to vote for Trump: Lol.

  14. #54
    Bob, I don't consider myself a Democrat, but an Independent. However, as the years go by I think I'm coming more and more liberal. I actually voted for Reagan (only once) and Bush also (again only once).

    I'm actually very pro life. However, I'm not a pro life hypocrite who is against abortion, but willing to see someone get fried in the electric chair. Yeah, I feel really bad when someone chooses abortion, but I'm not so sure I want it to be illegal.

    But as far as ever voting for Trump, hell would have to freeze over first.

  15. #55
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Nope. God bless America!
    WTF do you mean by nope? Oh yeah, you a lefty bag of shit that pushes the myth that Trump lies about everything. Fuck you, bitch. Go suck some socialist dick.
    You stupid dumbass- you asked if anything was wrong with the rest of the speech. I posted directly after that- don't know how your teleprompter post preceded mine. You're such a shithead jerk.
    Shave that "Trump lies" bullshit up your ass.
    Luck is probability taken personally.

  16. #56
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    From what I observed so far about 90% of this forum seems to be hard core conservative. While just the opposite seems to be true at BJ21 where at least 90% are liberal. This site is mostly machine players while BJ21 is mostly card counters.
    That's how you lefties are. You see centrists as hard core conservatives. I've always been a centrist. The only party I ever belonged to was the Democrat party. I was a big supporter of Carter and Clinton. I supported Al Gore in 2000. But John Kerry in 2004 was a little to far to the left for me. Then Obama in 2008? Forget it. I didn't leave the Democrat party, they left me. Now look at how things are. I seen it back then how the party was shifting left. Now the goddam party is hellbent to turn this country socialist.

    I have to put up with the fake news in the mainstream media calling Trump a liar/racist/fascist/moron everyday. Nothing I can do about it. But if you put that phony ass bullshit up on VCT I'll fire your punk lefty ass up.

    MP, I don't see you as a hard lefty, just a run of the mill liberal that the hard left considers to be a useful idiot.
    Luck is probability taken personally.

  17. #57
    You guys are funny thinking these politicians give a shit about any of you. They only care about where there big donations are coming from. The hell with all of them. They're ALL crooks in my book whether libs or conservatives.

  18. #58
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Bob, I don't consider myself a Democrat, but an Independent. However, as the years go by I think I'm coming more and more liberal. I actually voted for Reagan (only once) and Bush also (again only once).

    I'm actually very pro life. However, I'm not a pro life hypocrite who is against abortion, but willing to see someone get fried in the electric chair. Yeah, I feel really bad when someone chooses abortion, but I'm not so sure I want it to be illegal.

    But as far as ever voting for Trump, hell would have to freeze over first.
    MWP, so then I have my work cut out with you, or I need to find a way to get hell to freeze over. Lol.

    About your comment about a pro-lifer being a hypocrite who believes in the death penalty. Here's a quick tutorial on this, and why conservatives are pro-life and for the death penalty.

    For a conservative, they believe the primary role of government is protect the weak, vulnerable, and innocent. This is why conservatives are big on law and order and defense. There is nothing more innocent and vulnerable than an unborn baby. The pro-choice position is that a mother should have the right to kill her baby if it's an inconvenience to her and she choices to do it. A pro-choicer doesn't believe the baby has any rights under our constitution. Roe vs Wade was one of the dumbest decisions that came down from our courts. It was making law from the bench, which is what liberal judges do.

    As far as the death penalty, this involves the government putting to death someone who has committed a heinous crime like murder. In this case, the person is neither innocent or weak. He has committed the ultimate wrong by taking another person's life, so the government should use their ultimate punishment against him/her, which is the death penalty.

    I don't know if you believe in the Bible, but if you do, there are two cases where killing someone is justified in the Bible. In war to defend your nation, and when governments give out it's harshest penalty in the death penalty.

    There is nothing hypocritical about being pro-choice and pro-death penalty. It's the most logic and consistent position there is, which is why liberals have a hard time understanding it.

    By the way, I know liberals don't see the government this way. They believe the primary role of government is to redistribute a person's pay check to other people, to support people who don't want to work, to release criminals back into communities so they can kill more people, to regulate businesses out of business, to sign trade agreements that send our jobs to other counties, to eliminate defense so they can have more money to support all their social programs, to lower standards for minorities, to impose their thoughts on other people through their PC police, etc.

    Basically, liberals believe our government should do everything in their power to make life as difficult as possible for the people who play by the rules and make our government work.

  19. #59
    I meant to say liberals like to make it difficult for people who play by the rules and make “our country work”...not “our government work”. Most the time we’d be better off if our government didn’t work so it wouldn’t do more stupid things to make our lives harder.

  20. #60
    The only day that would be better than watching the libtard commentators on TV whimper and whine and falsely predict how the market would crash the night Trump destroyed crooked Hillary, will be the night Trump wins re-election....which he obviously will. And THAT will be an event worth watching for several days on CNN, MSNBC, etc. Nothing like seeing the P-A-I-N of liberals come home to roost. And nothing like watching the beginning of another near-doubling of our retirement accounts.

    Wise up folks. Nobody really cares about stupid race nonsense, Russia, N. Korea, abortion arguments, etc. etc. etc. They only care about their own personal situations, and with record employment numbers, higher middle class income because of the tax cuts to the majority and thanks to the top 1% being able to invest more in their businesses, and people's rocketing 401k's, no dumbass democrat who wants to make us pay for illegals' healthcare, education, housing, etc. will ever get anywhere with true Americans.

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