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Thread: Winning and using players card

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post

    Sorry I may have misunderstood. I thought you were claiming they were doing this with slots now.
    No problem. I am saying when I first read your thread at WoV, that was the first thing that crossed my mind, until I realized it was April 1. Even more convincing for me would have been if it was Suncoast or other Boyd property.
    Wouldn't they accidentally 86 normal players doing something like that?

    If they already knew who the AP's were and tailored an email they could just send them a big free play offer that they had to pick up in person from the booth or a host, Just fag the account with a message call security to 86 this player. I don't think its too smart to set up a group of AP's all at once just to 86 them. It looks real bad for the casino when security is called, there is more of a chance for something bad could go down and now you might end up with an entire group suing you.

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Suncoast set a trap about six years ago with a $5 Bonus Poker Deluxe machine. A point multiplier day where the card was worth 1%. They 86'd several players over it. Dancer got caught up in it and it cost him the Boyd properties. He wrote a couple articles about it. Several players on vpFREE told that they were caught in it to.
    Link please. So this was set up as a trap originally or did they just target players after the fact when they realized it was AP exploitable? Was this the swipe and win up to 25X or 50x points promo? I remember there being a promo like this about that time. The largest point multiplier would have made some of the games worth a very big hourly(I was even thinking even more than 1% if you could get a 50x). We were swiping, but we never got any multipliers worth a damn. We lost our swiper and could not make all the swips.
    It was an ongoing thing. Anyone that played that machine during the point multiplier got 86'd. I think Dancer said it was one percent. Haven't read the articles in awhile but I found the links.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...NfwRIDpmALgDCL

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._RbmOEtLRkvptX
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-03-2019 at 03:47 AM.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Suncoast set a trap about six years ago with a $5 Bonus Poker Deluxe machine. A point multiplier day where the card was worth 1%. They 86'd several players over it. Dancer got caught up in it and it cost him the Boyd properties. He wrote a couple articles about it. Several players on vpFREE told that they were caught in it to.
    Link please. So this was set up as a trap originally or did they just target players after the fact when they realized it was AP exploitable? Was this the swipe and win up to 25X or 50x points promo? I remember there being a promo like this about that time. The largest point multiplier would have made some of the games worth a very big hourly(I was even thinking even more than 1% if you could get a 50x). We were swiping, but we never got any multipliers worth a damn. We lost our swiper and could not make all the swips.
    It was an ongoing thing. Anyone that played that machine during the point multiplier got 86'd. I think Dancer said it was one percent. Haven't read the articles in awhile but I found the links.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...NfwRIDpmALgDCL

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._RbmOEtLRkvptX
    Thanks. That's not the same promotion I was referring to.

  4. #24
    I live in las vegas... I have been 86'ed for slots from a major Corporate Casino. Took less than 6 months for them to 86 me.

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by TheShadow7478 View Post
    I live in las vegas... I have been 86'ed for slots from a major Corporate Casino. Took less than 6 months for them to 86 me.
    Was it based on results rather than catching you in the act?

    Also it would help if you say whether this was an MGM property or not (there's a lot of them so you'll still be anonymous).

  6. #26
    It was almost certainly MGM (imo). I have HEARD that they were cracking down on slot vultures, but I didn’t know how much or in what style. IE: Are they cracking down on people who camp out machines and do it 24/7? Or will they pick off anyone who’s poking through machines?

    Well, recently I was walking the strip, which I haven’t done in like forever, and figured I’d go through some places and check the slots for the hell of it. Walk in, poke around, play if anything looks good, then leave. Security asked friend for ID, declined & asked why, they said to make sure he’s not in a database (wtf?), he assured them he wasn’t in any databases and basically got chased out.


    So yeah, I’d say it’s pretty risky and I can’t see a way to do it while staying under the radar (at least not feasibly, anyway).
    #FreeTyde

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by TheShadow7478 View Post
    I live in las vegas... I have been 86'ed for slots from a major Corporate Casino. Took less than 6 months for them to 86 me.
    Was it based on results rather than catching you in the act?

    Also it would help if you say whether this was an MGM property or not (there's a lot of them so you'll still be anonymous).
    I was negative in the property they got me in, and certainly negative in the corporate chain. I thought it might be results, but I looked at mine later and even in the property they "nabbed" me in, i was negative actual results. (i guess only playing 1 machine in the whole building in the place they nabbed me in, wasnt a good idea, wasnt in a high limit room)

  8. #28
    I'm pretty sure that winning big and playing with YOUR own card is fine but it could look really bad if you got say a Jackpot playing with someone else's Player's Club Card.

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    On certain mchiines with persistent wilds, I was pulling my card when I had several wilds lined up so I knew the next spin was going to be a large pay. A friendly old timer that I had met and spoken with previously happened to notice me doing this and told me that pulling your card in this situation will not prevent you from being tracked as I still had the same ticket in the machine that I was using for carded play. He said if I really wanted to avoid being tracked I would have to pull out my card, cash out the ticket and put new money in to play off the wilds. It make sense that they could track you this way be wondering if any knows if they actually do or if there is a way to tell?
    Card pulling doesn't work. Once you start the play it's recorded.
    Card pulling depends on each casino's software - which are only written by a few companies. It is not necessarily standardized in a whole casino chain (e.g. Harrahs). Some casinos know that "card pulls" mess up their accounting, and hosts have warned APs/heavy-players not to do it. I assume that the cost of upgrading the software (or switching to a competitor's system) was prohibitively high.

    Each year more casinos upgrade their systems to be aware of more "card pulls," but one big issue is interfacing with generations of older slot machines. Software systems may spend months/years in states where a "card pull" may work on one style of slot machine, but not on another...eventually after 3 years moving to a state where 99%+ of "slot pulls" are correctly recognized.

    There also are "bugs"/features in implementations. For example, there are time windows after a players card is removed when certain actions can be taken.
    What to do if a second card is inserted? Credit the ongoing play to the 1st card or the 2nd card?
    What if no new card is inserted? Is all play credited to the 1st card until the ticket is cashed out?
    What if there is no play for 10 min? Can you cause a session to be closed by sitting at the machine without playing?

    Theoretically, a casino can look at a machine record to compare play with cash-in/ticket-in/ticket-out times, but that would be rare. And would NOT be done automatically.
    If you play a slot machine with your card, remove your card, and then cash out a ticket, some casinos may not record that ticket-out into your account. But when does a system decide to record your end-of-play amount? That governs what "card pulls" do to your Win/Loss and point/comp/discretionary-comp/player-value.

    Some casinos print your player card number on the ticket-out.
    For larger tickets which have to be cashed at a live teller, it may speed the cash out process to leave your card in after a play, making sure to cash out the ticket before removing the card.

    What's more important is that if a casino wants to investigate you, they can use their cameras to watch you play. So it may not matter what the automatic systems do. One friend was warned by casino staff that playing a machine with a card until a progressive got very high, then playing without a card, was not cool. It got them flagged as an AP, although not 86'ed.

    I've been told that some casinos automatically flag "card pulling" behavior, but I have no confirmation.
    Some APs use an "only pull once" strategy - on each machine (if it comes out, it never goes in - plausible deniability).
    In extreme, only one session/day in the casino.
    Last edited by sandam; 06-11-2019 at 02:55 AM.

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    It was almost certainly MGM (imo). I have HEARD that they were cracking down on slot vultures, but I didn’t know how much or in what style. IE: Are they cracking down on people who camp out machines and do it 24/7? Or will they pick off anyone who’s poking through machines?.
    I looked at a few machines in the Bellagio in the early am (no UX), lost a few dollars, then had a security guy block the walkway north and demand to see my ID. I refused to give them my ID or players card (which I didn't use on any machine) and just walked off property.

    Heard MGM started cracking down on APs in early 2017. Heard speculation it started in the aftermath of the embarrassing Bellagio Rolex robbery (Mar 2017), and may have intensified after the shooting (Oct 2017) and the Bellagio poker cage robbery (Nov 2017). Perhaps security/surveillance departments needed to look like they were doing something.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-ro...ry?id=61727817

    https://nypost.com/2017/03/25/gunsho...-in-las-vegas/
    Last edited by sandam; 06-11-2019 at 03:12 AM.

  11. #31
    Originally Posted by sandam View Post
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    It was almost certainly MGM (imo). I have HEARD that they were cracking down on slot vultures, but I didn’t know how much or in what style. IE: Are they cracking down on people who camp out machines and do it 24/7? Or will they pick off anyone who’s poking through machines?.
    I looked at a few machines in the Bellagio in the early am (no UX), lost a few dollars, then had a security guy block the walkway north and demand to see my ID. I refused to give them my ID or players card (which I didn't use on any machine) and just walked off property.

    Heard MGM started cracking down on APs in early 2017. Heard speculation it started in the aftermath of the embarrassing Bellagio Rolex robbery (Mar 2017), and may have intensified after the shooting (Oct 2017) and the Bellagio poker cage robbery (Nov 2017). Perhaps security/surveillance departments needed to look like they were doing something.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-ro...ry?id=61727817

    https://nypost.com/2017/03/25/gunsho...-in-las-vegas/
    Having to poke machines looking for leftover bonuses sucks. That's one thing that deters me from it. I liked it much more when you could just walk by and look at the machines and you never had to touch anything. You would find and play less per day, but each on you found was usually much more valuable(depending on the game and accumulated amount). You could zip through a casino in no time at all.

  12. #32
    Does anyone have any knowledge of this:

    In some casinos I play when you download freeplay then pull the card sometime in the middle of playing off the freeplay then the freeplay that's left goes back into your account, doesn't remain on the machine.

    In other casinos when I pull the card in the middle of freeplay, the freeplay stays on the machine.

    So what I'm wondering is....if you download freeplay, where it stays on the machine when you pull the card, are you disguising that you played of the freeplay?
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  13. #33
    It depends on the system. There are some places where if you download your freeplay and immediately pull your card, then playing off that freeplay doesn't screw up your daily average.

    It worked that way at Arizona Charlie's, Four Queens, Binion's, and Westgate until they upgraded their card readers in the last couple of years. Four Queens caught on and looked for people doing this and some got no-mailed.

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    So what I'm wondering is....if you download freeplay, where it stays on the machine when you pull the card, are you disguising that you played of the freeplay?
    I'm thinking that to test whether or not this is the case on such a machine (one where free play remains after the card pull) you could press the cashout button after the card is pulled. If the full balance is cashed out (leaving zero credits) I would guess that disguising is possible, but if an amount less than this is returned upon pressing the cashout button (such that an amount remains on the machine but that is less than the TITO) then the system still detects that free play is getting played off and disguising is not possible on that machine. This sort of test would have to be done right after free play is downloaded to the machine before any wagering is initiated, since of course a full churn of the free play would make all of it eligible for cashout regardless of whether disguising is possible or not.

  15. #35
    Slightly off topic. Hialeah Park Casino has the Player's card name displayed at all times in slot machines. That is bothersome to me. What of you don't want random people knowing your name all the time? :/ Gulfstream Park only shows the name when entering the card and cashing out which is reasonable and so much better.

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by sandam View Post
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    It was almost certainly MGM (imo). I have HEARD that they were cracking down on slot vultures, but I didnít know how much or in what style. IE: Are they cracking down on people who camp out machines and do it 24/7? Or will they pick off anyone whoís poking through machines?.
    I looked at a few machines in the Bellagio in the early am (no UX), lost a few dollars, then had a security guy block the walkway north and demand to see my ID. I refused to give them my ID or players card (which I didn't use on any machine) and just walked off property.

    Heard MGM started cracking down on APs in early 2017. Heard speculation it started in the aftermath of the embarrassing Bellagio Rolex robbery (Mar 2017), and may have intensified after the shooting (Oct 2017) and the Bellagio poker cage robbery (Nov 2017). Perhaps security/surveillance departments needed to look like they were doing something.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-ro...ry?id=61727817

    https://nypost.com/2017/03/25/gunsho...-in-las-vegas/
    I hit virtually all the Mgm properties in Vegas, late last week and this weekend and didnít have any problems. Also saw many others checking machines somewhat more aggressively than me, and they didnít seem to have any problems either.

    Iím guessing probably because I went at busy times where they would not be as focused on watching for this type of activity.

  17. #37
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Originally Posted by sandam View Post
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    It was almost certainly MGM (imo). I have HEARD that they were cracking down on slot vultures, but I didn’t know how much or in what style. IE: Are they cracking down on people who camp out machines and do it 24/7? Or will they pick off anyone who’s poking through machines?.
    I looked at a few machines in the Bellagio in the early am (no UX), lost a few dollars, then had a security guy block the walkway north and demand to see my ID. I refused to give them my ID or players card (which I didn't use on any machine) and just walked off property.

    Heard MGM started cracking down on APs in early 2017. Heard speculation it started in the aftermath of the embarrassing Bellagio Rolex robbery (Mar 2017), and may have intensified after the shooting (Oct 2017) and the Bellagio poker cage robbery (Nov 2017). Perhaps security/surveillance departments needed to look like they were doing something.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-ro...ry?id=61727817

    https://nypost.com/2017/03/25/gunsho...-in-las-vegas/
    I hit virtually all the Mgm properties in Vegas, late last week and this weekend and didn’t have any problems. Also saw many others checking machines somewhat more aggressively than me, and they didn’t seem to have any problems either.

    I’m guessing probably because I went at busy times where they would not be as focused on watching for this type of activity.
    How much are you making on average per week?

  18. #38
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Originally Posted by sandam View Post
    I looked at a few machines in the Bellagio in the early am (no UX), lost a few dollars, then had a security guy block the walkway north and demand to see my ID. I refused to give them my ID or players card (which I didn't use on any machine) and just walked off property.

    Heard MGM started cracking down on APs in early 2017. Heard speculation it started in the aftermath of the embarrassing Bellagio Rolex robbery (Mar 2017), and may have intensified after the shooting (Oct 2017) and the Bellagio poker cage robbery (Nov 2017). Perhaps security/surveillance departments needed to look like they were doing something.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-ro...ry?id=61727817

    https://nypost.com/2017/03/25/gunsho...-in-las-vegas/
    I hit virtually all the Mgm properties in Vegas, late last week and this weekend and didn’t have any problems. Also saw many others checking machines somewhat more aggressively than me, and they didn’t seem to have any problems either.

    I’m guessing probably because I went at busy times where they would not be as focused on watching for this type of activity.
    How much are you making on average per week?
    Hard to answer because I travel around the country a lot for work and hit different casinos as I am working and Ive only been doing this for a few months. This was my first trip to Vegas doing this and I lost a little bit. I can see its very tough in Vegas as very competive and plays are very spread out as well as hard to find.

    Outside of Vegas have done very well on a part time weekly basis, but don’t trust my numbers yet as have ran very lucky hiting a lot of big jackpots incidentally to the play’s Ive been chasing and again only a few months of part time play.

    Also with my job depending on where i have to go some weeks I can get a lot of play in and other weeks very little.

  19. #39
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Originally Posted by sandam View Post
    I looked at a few machines in the Bellagio in the early am (no UX), lost a few dollars, then had a security guy block the walkway north and demand to see my ID. I refused to give them my ID or players card (which I didn't use on any machine) and just walked off property.

    Heard MGM started cracking down on APs in early 2017. Heard speculation it started in the aftermath of the embarrassing Bellagio Rolex robbery (Mar 2017), and may have intensified after the shooting (Oct 2017) and the Bellagio poker cage robbery (Nov 2017). Perhaps security/surveillance departments needed to look like they were doing something.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-ro...ry?id=61727817

    https://nypost.com/2017/03/25/gunsho...-in-las-vegas/
    I hit virtually all the Mgm properties in Vegas, late last week and this weekend and didn’t have any problems. Also saw many others checking machines somewhat more aggressively than me, and they didn’t seem to have any problems either.

    I’m guessing probably because I went at busy times where they would not be as focused on watching for this type of activity.
    How much are you making on average per week?
    My non-Montana income is dropping because Fortune Coin is replacing a lot of good games like GE, WWZ, GJ. I it keeps up I'll just go back to Montana.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

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