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Thread: Singers Special Plays

  1. #1
    Has Singer ever published or posted his special vp plays?

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by woodman22 View Post
    Has Singer ever published or posted his special vp plays?
    Yes. SOME on this forum and some on his former VPTruth site. 95% of his plays are by common sense math plays and the special plays are used whenever there's a CHANCE to avoid a losing session. No Hocus-Pocus, but when they DO come through, they can save a session. Only a small portion have been posted, but by having win goals, ANY person with common sense can formulate his own. Not a big deal as some standard math plays don't work out anyway.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Originally Posted by woodman22 View Post
    Has Singer ever published or posted his special vp plays?
    Yes. SOME on this forum and some on his former VPTruth site. 95% of his plays are by common sense math plays and the special plays are used whenever there's a CHANCE to avoid a losing session. No Hocus-Pocus, but when they DO come through, they can save a session. Only a small portion have been posted, but by having win goals, ANY person with common sense can formulate his own. Not a big deal as some standard math plays don't work out anyway.
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    FraudJ's word is worth less than the prop cash in Singer's safe...RIP

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Originally Posted by woodman22 View Post
    Has Singer ever published or posted his special vp plays?
    Yes. SOME on this forum and some on his former VPTruth site. 95% of his plays are by common sense math plays and the special plays are used whenever there's a CHANCE to avoid a losing session. No Hocus-Pocus, but when they DO come through, they can save a session. Only a small portion have been posted, but by having win goals, ANY person with common sense can formulate his own. Not a big deal as some standard math plays don't work out anyway.
    Any person with "common sense" wouldn't listen to him and his bogus gibberish!

  5. #5
    Alansbestbuys has them with Rob explaining them.
    Take off that stupid mask you big baby.

  6. #6
    There's a mathematical element to the ones in the videos on the alanbestbuys site woodman. Which means no one else here understands them.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by woodman22 View Post
    Has Singer ever published or posted his special vp plays?
    Yeah, Ive got a copy somewhere in my home office. Basically start betting low, increase denomination if you hit and make strategy changes if the play will get you to your play goal. If your goal at the $2 level is to be up $1000, you are up $300 and are dealt AA66x in Bonus Poker, you can break it up because hitting 4 aces will get you over your goal. That's a quick summary. If I can find it, I'll post more.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Doctor__Z View Post
    Originally Posted by woodman22 View Post
    Has Singer ever published or posted his special vp plays?
    Yeah, Ive got a copy somewhere in my home office. Basically start betting low, increase denomination if you hit and make strategy changes if the play will get you to your play goal. If your goal at the $2 level is to be up $1000, you are up $300 and are dealt AA66x in Bonus Poker, you can break it up because hitting 4 aces will get you over your goal. That's a quick summary. If I can find it, I'll post more.
    I never go up in denomination after a win.

    In BP, I would only break up 2pr. including Aces in a 6/5 game. But I never play that pay table.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Originally Posted by woodman22 View Post
    Has Singer ever published or posted his special vp plays?
    Yes. SOME on this forum and some on his former VPTruth site. 95% of his plays are by common sense math plays and the special plays are used whenever there's a CHANCE to avoid a losing session. No Hocus-Pocus, but when they DO come through, they can save a session. Only a small portion have been posted, but by having win goals, ANY person with common sense can formulate his own. Not a big deal as some standard math plays don't work out anyway.
    You always have the chance to suck out with optimal strategy too....instead of shifting strategies to sub-optimal holds. That's what you idiots don't get.

    I have win goals too. I gamble with an edge which allows me to attain my win goals. The recurring sum of net edge times volume equals the earn.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by Doctor__Z View Post
    Originally Posted by woodman22 View Post
    Has Singer ever published or posted his special vp plays?
    Yeah, Ive got a copy somewhere in my home office. Basically start betting low, increase denomination if you hit and make strategy changes if the play will get you to your play goal. If your goal at the $2 level is to be up $1000, you are up $300 and are dealt AA66x in Bonus Poker, you can break it up because hitting 4 aces will get you over your goal. That's a quick summary. If I can find it, I'll post more.
    I never go up in denomination after a win.

    In BP, I would only break up 2pr. including Aces in a 6/5 game. But I never play that pay table.
    Huge mistake. The Aces up is worth about 2.4 bets where the Aces alone is worth about 1.66 bets. Routinely making that hold cuts about half percent off an already really bad game.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  11. #11
    Sure it may work once in a great while, however, if you play VP for years this the situation will come up enough times that you will be well behind unless you run like a god.

    For anyone that wants to deviate from the mathematical correct strategy I suggest you play 100 play. You will quickly see how bad it turns out. Especially with the hand mentioned above. I'm sure there are VP programs where you can set up hands and draw them to see how things work out.



    Rob if you would only use that on 6/5 but you would never play 6/5 why even mention it?

    It seems to me that you are suggesting playing a 6/5 is mathematically bad odds and one should avoid it. This suggests that you do believe in math and good/bad odds. Yet you think its a good idea to toss the odds and math out the window if there is a chance it will help you meet your goal. That's only a temporary solution when you get lucky and it works. what about all the units/hands you lose in the long run? What about all the extra hands/ units you would have by playing the correct strategy? Don't they add up? Why cant a few extra hands per session get lucky as well and push you to your win goal? Just one extra hand can turn into many extra hands and many more shots at a win goal. You have to get fairly lucky for special play hands to hand to connect.

    You play short term win goals. Can you explain how it is that many short term sessions don't add up to the long term?
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 04-25-2019 at 11:14 PM.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I'm sure there are VP programs where you can set up hands and draw them to see how things work out.
    Winpoker is a perfect example of this:
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  13. #13
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I'm sure there are VP programs where you can set up hands and draw them to see how things work out.
    Winpoker is a perfect example of this:
    Name:  withfixedcards.jpg
Views: 455
Size:  140.7 KB
    It was actually one of these programs that caused me to search beyond the everyday thinking on VP. I was dealt a high pair w/3 to the royal and opted for the royal. A teaching screen appeared telling me that was not the most advantageous play. I overrode the warning and actually hit the royal. I was expecting a hand that would show me "you shoulda listened."

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    I overrode the warning and actually hit the royal.
    What's the expected loss on that hand by making that disadvantageous hold?

    How many more hands will you need to play to mitigate the 4000 credits you won by using your slingshot special play?

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    I overrode the warning and actually hit the royal.
    What's the expected loss on that hand by making that disadvantageous hold?

    How many more hands will you need to play to mitigate the 4000 credits you won by using your slingshot special play?
    I don't know or even worry about the math as I'm not there every hour or every day f the week beating my brains out fighting against the long term- which is always in the casino's favor. By the time I return, many thousands of hands have been run through the machines and have NO bearing on what I may or may not hit or the hands needed to play to mitigate my last visit. I can't fathom how anyone can believe my wins today affect my next visit. The machines don't hold today's wins in memory and start up where I left off. How absurd!! And when I say I don't worry about the math, that doesn't mean it doesn't determine if and when I make such plays. And losing some battles (sessions) is part of the game.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    By the time I return, many thousands of hands have been run through the machines and have NO bearing on what I may or may not hit or the hands needed to play to mitigate my last visit.
    I'm not talking about hands played when you're not there, I'm talking about the hands you need to play to get to expectation.

    Your dealt high pair was at worst a push, so it must have been a positive play to hold the pair.

    You broke up the high pair, and held 3-to-the-royal instead, I'm guessing your hold was a negative play with an expected loss.

    But you won 4000 credits.

    How many times does a hand like that occur, where you are dealt a high pair with 3-to-the-royal?

    How many more times will you need to "misplay" such a hand to reach expectation for the dealt hand played that way?

    I don't know how many hands you'll need to play to make up for your mistake, but somebody here does...that's why I'm asking.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    By the time I return, many thousands of hands have been run through the machines and have NO bearing on what I may or may not hit or the hands needed to play to mitigate my last visit.
    I'm not talking about hands played when you're not there, I'm talking about the hands you need to play to get to expectation.

    Your dealt high pair was at worst a push, so it must have been a positive play to hold the pair.

    You broke up the high pair, and held 3-to-the-royal instead, I'm guessing your hold was a negative play with an expected loss.

    But you won 4000 credits.

    How many times does a hand like that occur, where you are dealt a high pair with 3-to-the-royal?

    How many more times will you need to "misplay" such a hand to reach expectation for the dealt hand played that way?

    I don't know how many hands you'll need to play to make up for your mistake, but somebody here does...that's why I'm asking.
    I enjoyed my "mistake". Three to the Royal is an " always " hand for me. Players forget the number of times the quads never come anyway. It also depends on the game and where you are in your play. In the artt strategy, for example, the first goal in bonus poker is to return to square one so 2 pair with A's would be held IF a full house would return one to square one. But after that, A's would be the best hold. So math DOES come into play in this case. So how can ONE answer or example satisfy justification if one uses SHORT term strategy, win/loss goals, and so called special plays to make decisions. I will always take common sense and luck- using THIS kind of math no matter how many times I'm called an idiot- over a logic card to make decisions. But as for the "math" for the long run, someone else will have to chime in.

  18. #18
    Special plays that deviate from optimal play while giving up very little in game EV, are not made to outsmart the machines, bend the math books, or for any other confusing purposes. They simply afford the player a better chance at experiencing good luck and/or a hand that will send a goal-oriented person home. We all know there can be no winning without good luck. These plays bump those odds up.

    Yes there are times that keeping the optimal hand will result in a better win than playing out the special play. There are also the infrequent times making the special play will result in a very large winner. Some of these plays are only used on higher limits and in the more volatile games. If anyone here were to completely understand all aspects of how and when they are all used, you'd understand that which you so quickly and blindly dismiss: that there is a large and positive gap in overall winning using special plays in your strategy vs.simple expert-only play.

    Axel asks me the age-old question about why playing many short term sessions does not add up to the "long term". In order to comprehend the answer one must first clear their minds about how they play and try to put themselves into the shoes of a Singer-style player.

    Technically, anyone could say anything they do is "long-term" unless it's one and done. A baseball player hits for certain averages each distinct year, and his success is largely measured by that metric. His "overall" lifetime avg. really doesn't earn him much, outside at a shot at the HoF. A postal worker makes a yearly salary and every year that's what of utmost importance to him or her. But when you look at the sum of all those years when it's over, the long-term grand total means next to nothing.

    In my vp play, I go into a weekly session with a specific win goal so I can quit and go home until I decide to return and try again. When that win is attained, it's almost always in the middle of a very complex increasing and decreasing denominational and volatility point of impact. And at that time everything for that session comes to an abrupt end. So what happens when I return to play another session? Correct. I start at the lowest denomination on the game with the least volatility, with special plays being used at a higher rate as I go up in denomination. It is, in actual effect, a completely new and different session, with winning results coming right away, in 20 minutes, an hour, 5 hours or even more.

    Compare this with your typical advantage player, who plays according to the clock, the bladder or bowels, the wife, or Mr. Sandman. They play right on thru large wins because they're believing in that the grind-it-out gods will eventually bestow tiny riches upon them if they play more than AOC served short-shot drinks to whites.

    It's obvious an AP is just gonna put on his non-thinking cap and keep on repeating their trusty old cliche': +EV means you win, and -EV means you lose. And that couldn't be further from the mathematical truth. These special plays were not designed to hammer the math. They are simply used to increase the possibilities of hitting a session ending winner. Thru goodluck....which took skill to figure out.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I'm sure there are VP programs where you can set up hands and draw them to see how things work out.
    Winpoker is a perfect example of this:
    Name:  withfixedcards.jpg
Views: 455
Size:  140.7 KB
    It was actually one of these programs that caused me to search beyond the everyday thinking on VP. I was dealt a high pair w/3 to the royal and opted for the royal. A teaching screen appeared telling me that was not the most advantageous play. I overrode the warning and actually hit the royal. I was expecting a hand that would show me "you shoulda listened."
    Yeah, thats it. Sling you should start holding two-card royals over high pairs and see how that works for you. Remember, your object is to get lucky so go for it. As a matter of fact, why don't you hold 1-card royals over high pairs. That way you have many, many more chances to get lucky.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-26-2019 at 07:15 PM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    I overrode the warning and actually hit the royal.
    What's the expected loss on that hand by making that disadvantageous hold?

    How many more hands will you need to play to mitigate the 4000 credits you won by using your slingshot special play?
    Those 4000 credits on that software are extremely valuable, right fart belly? Why don't you ask sling the idiot why he uses a video poker trainer if he is not going to follow instructions. WTF is that?
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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