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Thread: Inside the Edge - Blackjack Documentary

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Nothing you can do talking reason with a guy like boob21. When you zig he is going to zag, and when you zag, he is going to zig. Unless you’re badmouthing or he can manipulate you into badmouthing BJA, then he will keep on course all day.
    Macap, you just stole your line from Mickey. And Mickey came up with it because he doesn’t know how to debate or know what he believes.

    Where have I ever zigged or zagged on this topic? I made a statement of fact. When an AP or gambler or anybody else wins money in a casino no value has been created. The same is true when someone wins the lottery. All that happens is money has changed hands from one party to the other. One party has more money, while the other party has less. It’s that simple.

    If you give money to your kids or friends have you created value? Has this money taken on more value since it has changed hands? The answer is no. The same situation happens in a casino. No value has been created by moving money from one party to the other, be it the player to the casino...or the casino to the player.

    This has nothing to do with being a liberal or a conservative. It’s just a fact that moving money from one person to another without anything occurring is not adding value. It’s that simple.

    Why is this so hard for you - and other APs - to understand? This does not change the fact that I like to go to casinos and extract money from them by being a card counter. But I don’t have any illusions that I’m adding any value to society when I do this. It’s not a big deal, but it appears to be to APs.

  2. #42
    Damn right I stole the phrase, because it’s true and people looked like they needed a reminder and mick blocked your ass.

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    Damn right I stole the phrase, because itís true and people looked like they needed a reminder and mick blocked your ass.
    Yes mcap, catchy phase, but can you point out how I zigged and zagged on the topic on hand?

    Itís interesting that Bosox, forum detective, has just the opposite take on me. He says Iím one of the most consistent APs heís ever known. He said I never zig and zag. If a zig, I stay zigging....and if I zag, I stay zagging. I never zig then zag. Lol

    I get you might not like my opinion on some topics. Thatís really Mickeyís beef with me. He doesnít agree with me on some topics so he blocked me. Thatís his right. Mickey basically tapped out. You will never see me tap out. Iím not scared of hearing views that donít align with mine. Itís how I learn and grow.

  4. #44
    Very interesting post by Moses over at zenzone. He spilled the beans on his life story. Damn, divorce is tough, but it seems he was devastated by it. I remember him telling this once before, but that time he started out with 4 million not 3 million.

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Very interesting post by Moses over at zenzone. He spilled the beans on his life story. Damn, divorce is tough, but it seems he was devastated by it. I remember him telling this once before, but that time he started out with 4 million not 3 million.
    Agreed! That was a touching story! Moses, thanks for being so honest and sharing it with us. Sounds like you’ve made the best out of a bad situation.

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Very interesting post by Moses over at zenzone. He spilled the beans on his life story. Damn, divorce is tough, but it seems he was devastated by it. I remember him telling this once before, but that time he started out with 4 million not 3 million.
    Yeah I read it as well and he seemed very upfront and honest about it...everyone faces adversity in their life somewhere along the way....all depends on the person whether they face it head on or run from it...he seemed to face his head on, which I respect

  7. #47
    Link?

    I took a peek at ZZ and i happened across Blitzkrieg's poker partner post. He seems like a real gem.

  8. #48
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Very interesting post by Moses over at zenzone. He spilled the beans on his life story. Damn, divorce is tough, but it seems he was devastated by it. I remember him telling this once before, but that time he started out with 4 million not 3 million.
    4 million, 3 million? Ahh, what's the difference. It's ONLY a million dollars.

    Here's the thing. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't his claim that he hasn't worked for anyone in 30 years? He accumulated all this wealth, 3 million or 4 million depending on which story, by betting sports and playing blackjack...in Reno of all places.

    Look I know nothing about betting sports or trying to with an advantage. What little I know, I picked up from tips at WoV by my friend Wizard. And that has been enough to make me a solid lifetime loser in the betting sports arena, which is just entertainment for me. So I am not qualified to comment on Moses knowledge about sportsbetting. But someone here that does know, isn't very impressed. Perhaps Moses just hasn't shared that knowledge and has kept it to himself. Would be a first as he shares his opinion about everything else, whether asked or not.

    And while I am not qualified to comment on his "professional" sportsbetting, I am qualified to comment on his claim of "professional" blackjack play. I know what it is to be a grinder type blackjack card counter, grinding out a living with a slim 1% advantage and dealing with the variance that comes with it. The top thing you need is a large rotation of playable games, and THAT is NOT Reno. This guy has not demonstrated ANY of the knowledge needed to do that. And the fact that he claims to play Single deck, where I don't doesn't change any of that. And the fact that he claims to play Reno, the sweatiest of sweatiest location, makes this claim even more preposterous. You can not grind your way to a living playing a small sweaty location like Reno. I play Reno. Not regularly, but enough to know, they ain't letting anybody do what I do, or moses claims. Nope! Nope! Nope!.

    The best a frequent player in Reno can do is play be allowed to play Red chip with a small spread, like $5-$20, And nobody is making a living doing that. Maybe supplementing some sort of SSI or disability payments or something, that is about it. Now I don't know if That is Moses gig, but based the homeless and near homeless crowd that he is hanging out with, THAT seems much more likely.

    I don't care what his story is. But this notion that he accumulated 3 or 4 (depending on the day or story) million dollars as a professional gambler in Reno for 30 years, is Ö. preposterous. No other word for it.

    Divorce may very well have hit him hard financially, but not to the tune that he is talking about, because he never accumulated that kind of money as a professional gambler, as he claimed. But whatever!! Hey maybe you guys can start some kind of go fund me page for "poor" <- Moses, who's life was devastated by divorce.

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    4 million, 3 million? Ahh, what's the difference. It's ONLY a million dollars.

    Here's the thing. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't his claim that he hasn't worked for anyone in 30 years? He accumulated all this wealth, 3 million or 4 million depending on which story, by betting sports and playing blackjack...in Reno of all places.
    I don't think Moses ever said he made all his wealth from playing blackjack. He mentioned he had a job in sales and then his own business. His business must have been very successful in order to be a millionaire by 45. Very few folks can accomplish this.

    At the end of each year as part of my income tax preparation, I make a list of all my assets except my house and cars and the income each one produces during the year. This list consisted of 36 different items this year, however at age 45 my list consisted of only 24 items and totaled to just under $50,000. Damn, that is a far way from a million and it truly is the exception for anyone to have a million at 45 unless they got a big inheritance.

  10. #50
    Ok, I don't know anything about a job in sales or owning his own business. Was this mentioned in one of these long book like posts in the last few days? Since someone also PMed me that he has said that it must have been. I just scanned a couple of the long posts and don't see anything about that.

    But what I am talking about is a post he made several years ago and then again fairly recently that he hasn't worked for anyone for 30 years. I am assuming he wasn't counting those refereeing jobs. He specifically said he supported himself, including buying houses and cars for his kids from sports betting and blackjack play. This stood out to me when I first read it several years ago, because I know he has not been supporting himself from blackjack play as he claimed. He just doesn't have the knowledge about a simple concept like variance to do so. People that really support themselves from blackjack play (and even seriously supplement income) completely understand the variance of the game, the swings that occur and the bankroll necessary to safely play, so this variance isn't an issue.

    Anyone, and I mean anyone that starts talking about winning for years, or decades with no or minimum variance, simply doesn't understand the game, nor know what they are talking about. Period! Midwest player, you might remember someone else in the blackjack community who is completely full of shit that made those same variance claims.

    So when I first read that variance nonsense by Moses, I knew he was full of shit and did not support himself in anyway from blackjack play. This was several years ago. I just never felt the need to call him out on it. Contrary to what people may think I don't go around calling everyone out that I think is partially or completely full of crap and/or embellishing their story. There is some responsibility for people to figure this out for themselves...you know, figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking. But when Moses started using this false variance shit to try to discredit me, which he did over and over, here and elsewhere, then yes, I called him out and exposed him as clearly not knowing what he is talking about concerning variance.

    Now on top of all that you CAN NOT play Reno regularly for any kind of reasonable stakes. It is a fantasy. Most professional or serious blackjack players don't even bother with Reno, it is so sweaty. A few like Bear, and a couple others pop in once or twice a year, likely on weekend for a few days, knowing they can't play more than that at green/black stakes.

    So look, I now know how old Moses is and I don't want to reveal that, but if his 30 year claim is true, then he made those millions by the time he was 30, not 45. Do you really think that happened? I don't even care. If he made money (or even inherited money) and has just played as a hobby for 30 years, supplementing or whatever, he should have said that. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't look down on players that aren't playing professionally and are supplementing or playing recreationally, yourself included, as well as several others like C. Panther from the old forum. I learned a hell of a lot from guys like that. AND I have always said, supplementing or playing part-time, with a reliable income or retirement is really the best scenario.

    Now one final thing, I haven't read the long posts he made today, other than the quick scan I just mentioned. But someone PMed me that these posts are "sympathy posts", as part of an effort to get re-instated here. I don't know if Dan is reading or what Dan is thinking. Personally I hope it doesn't work. That is not about me being unwilling to let go and move on with someone I don't care for. Beside all the hate he has spewed at me and the physical threats, perhaps the biggest thing, a line crossed, was his threat to come to Vegas, find me, identify me and reveal that information to casino personnel around Vegas. Any mention of such a thing should immediately make someone an enemy of the whole AP community.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 04-29-2019 at 09:56 PM.

  11. #51
    Interesting story Moses. Thanks for sharing. Questions: What percentage of your earnings come from sports betting and how much comes from blackjack? Where do you find the biggest advantage in sports betting? I’ve just been getting into sports betting in the last year. I know I have a lot to learn in this area.

    It sounds like your sports career was much bigger than mine. I topped out in intramurals although if I must brag my teams did win the intermaul championship in flag football one year. I like basketball more, but my intramural football teams always did better.

    I like the NFL too and had dinner recently with a Super Bowl winning coach. It’s interesitng how these people aren’t much different than high school football coaches I’ve known. I actually went to a Super Bowl, with everything comped, and even stayed in the same hotel as the football team. It was quite the experience seeing one of the football players sending his two kids down the elevator the day of the game with his parents. I happened to be in the elevator at the time. I’ve given one of my better plays in intramurals to the coach but I doubt if it’ll show up in a Super Bowl anytime soon. I’m into the razzel dazzle stuff. Lol.

  12. #52
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    I like the NFL too and had dinner recently with a Super Bowl winning coach. It’s interesitng how these people aren’t much different than high school football coaches I’ve known. I actually went to a Super Bowl, with everything comped, and even stayed in the same hotel as the football team. It was quite the experience seeing one of the football players sending his two kids down the elevator the day of the game with his parents. I happened to be in the elevator at the time. I’ve given one of my better plays in intramurals to the coach but I doubt if it’ll show up in a Super Bowl anytime soon. I’m into the razzel dazzle stuff. Lol.

    Blob21, you remind me of Dicaprio in the movie Titanic when he is having dinner at the captins table telling the group how he won his ticket at a poker game and the previous night he slept under a bridge.


    One night you are having dinner with a super bowl winning coach, and the previous night you slept under a bridge in Reno with new friends from a sports book.


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...56763135666556

  13. #53
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    I like the NFL too and had dinner recently with a Super Bowl winning coach. It’s interesitng how these people aren’t much different than high school football coaches I’ve known. I actually went to a Super Bowl, with everything comped, and even stayed in the same hotel as the football team. It was quite the experience seeing one of the football players sending his two kids down the elevator the day of the game with his parents. I happened to be in the elevator at the time. I’ve given one of my better plays in intramurals to the coach but I doubt if it’ll show up in a Super Bowl anytime soon. I’m into the razzel dazzle stuff. Lol.

    Blob21, you remind me of Dicaprio in the movie Titanic when he is having dinner at the captins table telling the group how he won his ticket at a poker game and the previous night he slept under a bridge.


    One night you are having dinner with a super bowl winning coach, and the previous night you slept under a bridge in Reno with new friends from a sports book.


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...56763135666556
    Bosox, I can tell Moses is the type person I would enjoy spending a weekend with. He’s real...he’s interesting...he’s intelligent...he’s from the midwest. I think we’d have a good time.

    Hey, I’ve also spent time with one of our presidents. It was obviously a Republican because I wouldn’t get caught dead with a Democrate. Lol. It was during a time I was dating a girl fairly high up in a presidential election campaign and she got invited to the inaugural ball. It was quite an event, getting security clearance, renting a tux and all. But yes, there I was on the dance floor dancing next to the presdent and his wife. Not for long, but I did meet him, talk to him, danced on the floor next to him and shook his hand.

    I’ve also studied under a nobel prize winner in one of the sciences who has been honored by the US Senate for his work. I just found that out from Wikipedia. I study under him for 5 years and we did have our disagreements but never once did he call me names. That’s why it hasn’t bothered me when Don Schlesinger or other APs call me names. I’ve learned this is just what APs do to each other. It’s a stange culture. It’s not how scientist treat each other.

    As I’ve told you many times, I only have one thing left on my bucket list and that’s to see Frieghtman spilt tens. You’ve told me many time it’s something I have to see in person to fully appreciate. I’m hoping sometime in the future I can experience it firsthand, before I leave this earth. Since you know Frieghtman, I was hoping you could set it up.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=Bob21;87470][QUOTE=BoSox;87469]
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    1.I like the NFL too and had dinner recently with a Super Bowl winning coach.

    2. Hey, Iíve also spent time with one of our presidents.

    3. Iíve also studied under a nobel prize winner in one of the sciences who has been honored by the US Senate for his work.
    Bob21, have you considered running for President of the World ?
    Obviously it is just a stepping stone to President of the Universe but you have to start somewhere.

  15. #55
    [QUOTE=tableplay;87477][QUOTE=Bob21;87470]
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    1.I like the NFL too and had dinner recently with a Super Bowl winning coach.

    2. Hey, I’ve also spent time with one of our presidents.

    3. I’ve also studied under a nobel prize winner in one of the sciences who has been honored by the US Senate for his work.
    Bob21, have you considered running for President of the World ?
    Obviously it is just a stepping stone to President of the Universe but you have to start somewhere.
    Good point! I’ve thought about it, but right now I’m just trying to master this AP stuff and understand the AP culture. It’s interesting. I’ve learned what it takes to debunk something in AP logic...just two APs beleiving something isn’t so. So I’m getting there. Lol

  16. #56
    Closing lines from a Moses post on ZZ:

    "So regrets? There are no regrets when you give it your all. I suppose, if there is one regret, it's I didn't take that job with the CBA in 1984. Most NBA officials today make a million a year. lol Ironic, I ran into an old friend last night who was a college official and did the assigning for NBA games."

    I do not blame you in the least what the hell difference is a measly 10 to 15K a year loss in income when you can avoid all the travel and enjoy the success of life, while betting games sorrounded with friends in a sportsbook making more now than you'll ever need anyway. If you took the officials job you could only throw out of a game a overly rude player. Now if someone gives you lip your current woman will be encouraging you to smack down whomever the MF is. She seems to like the fight game especially if she can get you into it.
    Last edited by BoSox; 05-01-2019 at 06:36 AM.

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