Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
This play would not file under normal legit AP play. It's an advantage, yes. But its not like playing progressives, promotions, or machines that are over 100%. In terms you can understand, I would equate it with finding shuffle machines that you knew exactly when it was going to give you a blackjack. You could go around to multiple casinos and pick how much you wanted to make within reason.

Once given the information about this play you would be able to understand how and why it was a big advantage, if you found the opportunity, you would be able to do it as well.
Axelwolf, thank you for "dumbing" this down for me (with blackjack references), so that a lowly salamander might understand.

Here's what you are missing Axelwolf. I am not questioning that such a play existed. Nor that there was a huge advantage to any of you really smart machine AP's that discovered such a play and played it. What I am question is that Rob found this play, played it and won all the money he now claims from it. And the reason I question it is because Rob's story has now changed 180 degrees from which he has been claiming for 20 years....20 years!

Understand that when I came to this forum, which was the first time I encountered Rob Singer that I am aware of, had his claim been that he made a million dollars as a machine AP, playing a play that few know of, I would have never said a word. Even if he had left out the part about a play that few knew of and just said he made a million dollars as a machine AP, playing +EV situations. I would have had no comment. Just as I have never challenged that you, mickey, jbjb, Monet, RS_, and anyone else that I might be forgetting. Why would I? You are credible and the math works.

But that wasn't what Singer was claiming. He was claiming he made a million dollars plus, playing -EV video poker, but using progressive betting and stop limits to change a longterm expected loss (-EV game) to a longterm win (+EV), in this case a win of over a million dollars. Now before I even heard enough from him to decide if I found him credible, HIS MATH DOES NOT WORK! And that is what I challenged, just the same as you, mickey, Dan Druff challenged and I am sure many before this site, including Wizard when Singer was at WoV. The math of the claim that Rob made did not work.

As time went on and Singer was unable to explain his "alternate math" and gets defensive and nasty with anyone who challenges that the math to his claims didn't work, that is when the credibility issue came into play for me.

So now, after 20 years, of this claim, and all the attacks defending and deflecting, after he wrote books, did videos with Alan, claims that he personally taught many "students", he wants to do a 180 and say "forget everything I said for the last 20 year....this is how I really made my million dollars plus".

Well I am sorry, I don't find that credible. The play is credible. The information that he now has about the play may be credible. But I don't find Singer's 180 degree flip after 20 years credible. If you do, power to you. People can make that decision for themselves. You know my feeling on this. Members decide who they find credible and or not or as I frequently put it "who is just talking". Rob's flip of his previous 20 years claim to this new claim is just not credible to me. And I don't buy that the last 20 years, all the passionate defense of his claims, books, videos, was about protecting anything, because there was nothing to protect as long as he didn't mention it.