Request For Mickeycrimm

[PositiveVariance]

Two interesting tidbits.

1) In 1984, Gamblers' Book Club published Who's Who in Sports Gambling, which was self-published by Rick Hall as an attempt to clean up the tout business and steer people to respectable handicappers. Hall was a Born-Again Christian and a handicapper. He considered it his duty. Yours truly was vetted to be in the book. So the self-publishing options of Gamblers' Book Club are somewhat familiar to me. Interesting that Singer also went that route.

2) The odds on getting 20K two years after the publication are pretty long. As someone who has friends who have been published (Scott Beck, Ken Mijeski, Bob Bruno, Tony Cavendar), I can tell you that the money ratio here is, as Positive stated, highly, highly unlikely. But it's possible someone at GBC was tossing a good local Italian boy a bone, so not impossible if you read between the lines.

Another thing I forgot to include in Singers $20k deal:

I mentioned they would have to sell another 2,000 books, just to break even. It would actually be much higher than this, since you would have to subtract what the publisher is already receiving as their portion, if there were no buyout in place.

Unlike now, with ebooks, back then the publisher was taking a huge portion. As an unknown writer, you would be lucky to get $2 for every book sold. If you sold your royalty rights, they now get that $2 that was previously going to you. Prior to buying you out, they were taking the bulk of it anyhow. Simple $2 swing.

$2 book / $20k = 10,000 books just to BREAK EVEN! Yikes!

[mickeycrimm]

Some Vintage Gold...

Singer building up the anticipation to reveal his DU bug claims, on his debut appearance on GWAE. The below quote is his perception of the response, IF he were to get on Gambling with an Edge...




Apparently, Munchkin and Dancer didn't think it was worthy.
Shocking, I know!

They even gave Richard Marcus a couple episodes on GWAE.

Thanks for the link, Mickey. This is Gold!

Rob and Dancer go way back to like 2000. Dancer was highly critical of Rob’s strategy. It took Dancer awhile to figure out what he was dealing with. Rob is a master troll. Dancer couldn’t out troll Rob. The stuff Rob wrote about Dancer was comedy gold. If you think Rob has been hard on KJ, hey, not even close. So Dancer finally took the tact of totally not responding to anything Rob wrote, ignoring Rob and not giving him any publicity.

When I pitched the idea to GWAE, Munchkin told me Dancer didn’t care how big a story it could be he would never let Rob have an audience on GWAE. And I think Rob knew that.

One thing I know about Dancer and Munchkin, like You and I both, they are "Math guys". They want some type of evidence, for such a big claim. Putting aside the history between Singer and Dancer... if Rob had evidence that showed it was even plausible, not even likely, but only plausible that he discovered and or played the DU Bug, I'm sure Munchkin at a minimum would have an interview him. If you move that threshold to "likely", I have a strong feeling Munchkin could have convinced Dancer to do a show. The problem is Singers reputation doesn't help him.

There is a way that Singer could have proved with 100% certainty that he worked this Bug. Get a copy of his tax return. I know Troll Belly is going to say, they only go back 6-10 years, or whatever it says online on the IRS website. If someone wants a copy of any year of their tax return bad enough, they will get it! We know the IRS has it. It may take a few phone calls, but anyone that knows how to get things done will not have a problem making it happen.

Next way is go to the casino. Same thing, it may take a few phone calls but you will eventually get it. If he made the amount of money he claims, this would be a few hundred W2G's per year. 20 or so W2G's from the last year working the DU Bug should suffice. I'm sure he would have numerous at many casinos. 3 or 4 casinos, and you get all you need. In what I do it is rare I get a W2G, not long ago I was in an Indian casino asking for some info on something unrelated, the clerk told me the only thing in here is from 2006 (A W2G for a slot jackpot). There is no question if I would have asked for a copy, I would have received it.

Will it take some work to get them? Yes, it probably will.

If we know one thing, we know Rob Singer WANTS TO BE BELIEVED! I think we all know, that if he had in fact played the DU Bug, we would have seen some proof by now.

We all know the evidence will never be shown, but it is satisfying to know that if the claim were real, the evidence is out there and can be obtained by Singer.


What these guys that make these outrageous claims of winning don't understand, is that most, if not all of us would be absolutely thrilled if their stories were real! We want people to take money from the casino. I would absolutely love to see someone (including Singer) hit a $1.2 Million VP Jackpot. I wish it was true, but sadly for now, it only remains a fantasy.



Oh, and yes, I agree, Singer is a Troll... However, he is a unique troll as he really wants us to believe the gambling claims. All the other stuff, yes I believe it is to try and get certain people fired up.

Dancer was the one in control at GWAE. Rob could have had ironclad proof and Dancer would have still forbid it. If Munchkin had done an interview of Singer, Dancer would not have allowed it to be under the GWAE banner. You have to understand just how much animosity Dancer has toward Rob. Dancer has stuck to his policy of totally ignoring Rob for a lot of years now.

[MisterV]

What name did Robert use on the forums before he came up with "Robert Singer," which is obviously a back-door slur of "Bob Dancer?"

He denies posting as Jerry Logan: obviously he posted before he Became "Singer."

[mickeycrimm]

P.S. I actually believe that you honestly believe in your video poker system and all the things that you've said about video poker. I do believe it's very possible you could have been an overall winner playing in that manner. Especially, if you hit a few big things.

I do not believe the system works in the long run, I do not believe in the five-card flip-over thing, and I do not believe people should use alternative strategies that are not based on math.

Question for you Axelwolf: When you say "I do believe it's very possible you could have been an overall winner playing in that manner", are you talking about ahead $375,000 over 4 years as Rob now claims? Because there is a big difference between bucking the math and being slightly ahead when it is -EV and bucking the math for almost $400k. THAT is a lot of extremely positive variance or good luck or whatever you want to call it. And it is over years, so not some really small sample size.

Also want to add my own little thoughts about the Interview Mike did with Rob. It did blow up the whole Singer claim! Because it went so poorly from Rob and in the days after people, including Dan Druff were saying he should be able to provide something, that Rob felt it necessary to take those pictures inside the Newell RV at the dealership, which really ended it all. Remember the Rv is relevant because Rob said that is what he did with the money from the DU bug.

When I traded messages with Mike a few days after the interview, I congratulated him on exposing Rob, or pushing him to the brink so Rob exposed himself. Mike took credit and said he thought Rob would say or do something that tripped himself up. I mean, I don't really know if Mike really had it thought out that well, but it did work and I give him credit.

I don't know. If somebody was playing a $100 machine, a $400,000 Royal is possible. Regardless, it's impossible to break down anything not knowing how often he played and what limits. I've known guys who are Advantage Players who took all their smaller earnings saved up and played higher limit machines with very thin edges who ultimately ran super well on Royals when it really counted.

Rob always claimed he lived in Arizona and played one day a week in Nevada. He claimed his sessions averaged about 4 hours. If his claims are true then he played about 200 hours per year.

[MisterV]

The issue is that his bio on Amazon has not been changed to reflect the seeming "New Reality" that weekly sojourns are no longer the case.

Asleep at the wheel?

[mickeycrimm]

What name did Robert use on the forums before he came up with "Robert Singer," which is obviously a back-door slur of "Bob Dancer?"

He denies posting as Jerry Logan: obviously he posted before he Became "Singer."

I started following Rob in 2005. But I read his posts on freeVPfree going back to 2002. He used the name Rob Singer. That was the name published on his book. He said the name was a play on Bob Dancer's name (Bob Dancer is not Dancer's real name). Since Bob was a dancer, Rob decided to be a singer. Dancer took his name from the line dancing that he was fond of.

freeVPfree was the free speech arm of vpFREE. vpFREE was created to counter the charging for information that the Skip Hughes group was doing. Hence the name, vpFREE. vpFREE was always highly moderated so any trolling got sloughed off to freeVPfree where the particpants were welcome to slam the shit out of each other. It was pretty much created for Rob. It's where Rob and Arci got there start against each other.

Arci posted under a name that was an acronym for "More One-Eyed Jacks." It was something like "moejacks." Arci was from Minnesota and there were some very good One-Eyed Jacks video poker games that were full pay up there, so that's what Arci concentrated on. The 70-50 payscale was 100.28%. Then he got the card benefits on top of it. He calculated the strategy for the game himself. To me the strategy was a nightmare to play because there was one strategy for when a wild jack wasn't in your hand and another strategy for when a wild jack was in your hand. But Arci thrived at it. He was the leading expert on the game.

The entire video poker intelligentsia was on vpFREE. They all took turns going at Rob. And they all gave up. LOL!

Jean Scott told me she quit responding to anything Rob wrote but read everything he wrote just to keep up on what he was saying about her.

Rob's main theme was the video poker intelligentsia were all gambling addicts who lived in filthy casinos 24 hours a day while he was a great family man. Hilarious! It was comical shit. He had those people pissed off to high heaven. LOL! Rob never let the mob run over him. As long as they dished it he dished it.

[accountinquestion]

You mean like 100% free play rebates up to $200 on losing Monday Night Football games (sides and totals) at a particular offshore?

LOL. Not good enough for this crowd.

Good enough if I had time and wasn't doing other stuff. You act as if these things are risk free and everyone should just pile on. People around here make far more but if they weren't busy then sure given the book checks out.

Really though? Pathetic. Like a little child hinting around bout something begging to be asked.

Except guess what? Redietz is literally notorious for not answering questions.

Lol good stuff. Hope he can pay the tax bills with the EV from the promos.

Account has 4000 posts. Go ahead and find something useful that he posted.

I posted instructions on which sports books to visit in what order so as to most effectively futures shop.

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...=Sports+Future

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...Sports+Futures

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...Sports+Futures

Posts about sportsbooks that is 7 years old. Ranting about books not fearing or whatever phrase you strawmanned up. Books do it simply because they don't want a bettor they lose to over the longrun. Anyway.. outside of getting sheets with latest Futures prices printed out there is nothing.. but even that advice is antiquated given the apps. Lol

You have s very high view of yourself.. or maybe what you find valuable is common sense to most APs but you just lack.the ability to realize that.

[mickeycrimm]

you can look at his financial situation from that time and you see a bankruptcy, eviction and legal judgement again for that apartment eviction.

Robert, is this True??

PV, this is where KJ can get things twisted up. I don't think he does it on purpose. I think he just remembers wrong. I seen all that same background information KJ did. And IIRC, it was from the 80's, not when he was playing video poker in the late 90's.

[MaxPen]

Grandpa Newell is Monty Python's Black Knight. No matter how much you break him down you will never get a definitive win...RIP

[AxelWolf]

and steer people to respectable handicappers.

If this means what I think it means, then they were not respectable handicappers IMHO. That doesn't mean they weren't respectable people, nor do I take issue with them making a buck. I just don't understand why a winning handicapper would need or want investors or need to charge people for services. Obviously, there are always certain situations where multiple people could benefit.

Perhaps nowadays if someone has an edge while charging a small fee with an online setup to hundreds or thousands, it could be beneficial to the touts and punters.

I'm all ears if someone can show me verified long-term evidence of touts and the customers having an overall advantage. I have heard of possibly 2. Im hearing good things about unibated but that's not really a traditional tout service.

[tableplay]

Arci was from Minnesota and there were some very good One-Eyed Jacks video poker games that were full pay up there, so that's what Arci concentrated on. The 70-50 payscale was 100.28%. Then he got the card benefits on top of it. He calculated the strategy for the game himself. To me the strategy was a nightmare to play because there was one strategy for when a wild jack wasn't in your hand and another strategy for when a wild jack was in your hand. But Arci thrived at it. He was the leading expert on the game.

[Don Perignom]

Imagine all that strategy and you're still not within three hundredths of optimal.

IIRC, the OEJ game was somewhat of a Grand Casinos specialty. That was the Lyle Berman company with operations in MN, MS and LA.

Berman eventually buddied up with Bob Stupak in Vegas.

[mickeycrimm]

Arci was from Minnesota and there were some very good One-Eyed Jacks video poker games that were full pay up there, so that's what Arci concentrated on. The 70-50 payscale was 100.28%. Then he got the card benefits on top of it. He calculated the strategy for the game himself. To me the strategy was a nightmare to play because there was one strategy for when a wild jack wasn't in your hand and another strategy for when a wild jack was in your hand. But Arci thrived at it. He was the leading expert on the game.

Like I said, a nightmare.

[mickeycrimm]

Imagine all that strategy and you're still not within three hundredths of optimal.

IIRC, the OEJ game was somewhat of a Grand Casinos specialty. That was the Lyle Berman company with operations in MN, MS and LA.

Berman eventually buddied up with Bob Stupak in Vegas.

It was the Grand Casino is Minnesota that had the game. Also, you could find that payscale in gas stations, grocery stores and small casinos around rural Nevada but never with any card benefits like cashback or promotions.

[PositiveVariance]

Arci was from Minnesota and there were some very good One-Eyed Jacks video poker games that were full pay up there, so that's what Arci concentrated on. The 70-50 payscale was 100.28%. Then he got the card benefits on top of it. He calculated the strategy for the game himself. To me the strategy was a nightmare to play because there was one strategy for when a wild jack wasn't in your hand and another strategy for when a wild jack was in your hand. But Arci thrived at it. He was the leading expert on the game.

Thanks for posting, I enjoy looking at the difference in expected value per the hand held.

I have only looked at a few of these, but I must say, I am extremely surprised by "line 34" under Rank. This line itemized "4 card straight with 1 gap". So you are holding 4 cards with an "opening" somewhere in the middle, often times referred to as a "gutshot straight draw". One more thing, this itemized line would EXCLUDE any Queens or Kings.

What I find unique about this is the amount of equity that you would have when holding this hand, which is 1.2766. This is very small. The reason I find this interesting is Because if you look at Rank line #37 at the very bottom, you can hold NOTHING and your EV is 1.2198.

Most would think having "4 to a straight with a gutshot is a respectable hand, in reality it is ONLY less than 6 hundredth of a percent better than holding NO cards and drawing a fresh 5 cards.

It makes sense as to why, but I never realized 4 to a straight with 1 gap and a holding of NOTHING is essentially the same thing. Very Interesting.


Playing 5 credits on a .25 machine ($1.25) would be a 5.7 cent difference in Expected Value between the 2 hands.

[tableplay]

Dancer was the one in control at GWAE. Rob could have had ironclad proof and Dancer would have still forbid it. If Munchkin had done an interview of Singer, Dancer would not have allowed it to be under the GWAE banner. You have to understand just how much animosity Dancer has toward Rob. Dancer has stuck to his policy of totally ignoring Rob for a lot of years now.

Hopefully Rob can get on Richard's new podcast since Dancer is not a part of that.

[tableplay]

Imagine all that strategy and you're still not within three hundredths of optimal.

IIRC, the OEJ game was somewhat of a Grand Casinos specialty. That was the Lyle Berman company with operations in MN, MS and LA.

Berman eventually buddied up with Bob Stupak in Vegas.

OEJ is an awesome game, the way the variance is structured. For example you get 15 for 1 for four of a kind and it has a cycle of about 1 in every 50 hands. A very useful game for beating certain promos, but not a game you run into at every casino.

[tableplay]

Imagine all that strategy and you're still not within three hundredths of optimal.

IIRC, the OEJ game was somewhat of a Grand Casinos specialty. That was the Lyle Berman company with operations in MN, MS and LA.

Berman eventually buddied up with Bob Stupak in Vegas.

It was the Grand Casino is Minnesota that had the game. Also, you could find that payscale in gas stations, grocery stores and small casinos around rural Nevada but never with any card benefits like cashback or promotions.

Atlantis (Reno) had the full pay version - but like you wrote, the rewards card benefits weren't too good for that or the other 100%+ games they used to have.

[tableplay]

Thanks for posting, I enjoy looking at the difference in expected value per the hand held.

No problem. For shits and giggles, below is the 101.42% version of OEJ (Ace line OEJ). The more seasoned members of VCT could probably chime in with more info on this variant. My limited knowledge of this super-pay variant is that it was available at Sam's Town for a short while (obviously at other locations that I didn't hear about too). Monet mentioned that he had a friend he thought had encountered this version in an Ace Invaders format (meaning that the game probably got torched within a week or two by APs) at Sam's Town IIRC. It wouldn't surprise me if the strategy chart for this variant is the most fiendish of any non-bonus VP game (for example a bonus game like 10-hand UX may have more difficult strategies for the various themes, but that is not standard 5 coin poker). I'd be happy to generate a chart for it if I had a working version of Wolf VP, but I don't (my hard disk crashed). Since this game probably will never be encountered in the wild, it is not worth it to run a debugger with the demo version of Wolf VP to get it to crank out the chart for it. I have seen multi-hand OEJ online back in the early two thousands, but for obvious reasons you won't find multi-hand OEJ online or at a brick and mortar today anywhere AFAIK.

[mickeycrimm]

What I find unique about this is the amount of equity that you would have when holding this hand, which is 1.2766. This is very small. The reason I find this interesting is Because if you look at Rank line #37 at the very bottom, you can hold NOTHING and your EV is 1.2198.

Most would think having "4 to a straight with a gutshot is a respectable hand, in reality it is ONLY less than 6 hundredth of a percent better than holding NO cards and drawing a fresh 5 cards.

It makes sense as to why, but I never realized 4 to a straight with 1 gap and a holding of NOTHING is essentially the same thing. Very Interesting.


Playing 5 credits on a .25 machine ($1.25) would be a 5.7 cent difference in Expected Value between the 2 hands.

PV, on the video poker software the EV of the hands are measured in coins, based on a 5-coin bet. You can convert them to percentage of bet by dividing by 5. For instance, the gutshot you referred to is worth 1.276 coins, or 25.52% of the bet. The draw five hand is worth 1.2198 coins, or 24.396% of the bet.

In the Jacks or Better games a few factors determine whether the gutshot plays over the draw five.

In 9/6 Jacks the straight pays 20 coins (4 units) and two-pair pays 2 for 1. The draw five hand plays over the gutshot/no high cards.

At 9/6 Bonus Poker Deluxe the straight pays 20 coins (4 units) and two-pair pays even money. In this case the gutshot/no high cards plays over draw five.

AT 10/7 Double Bonus the straight pays 25 coins (5 units) and two-pair pays even money. The extra unit the straight pays means the gutshot/no high cards plays over draw five.