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Thread: The Singer Play

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post

    So Mickey I’ll ask the dumb question. How much did this royal pay? Does it pay off as a $4000 royal?
    The royal paid $4007. I've found meter reset mistakes myself. Usually, when I find a meter totally out of whack, like the one in the pic, the big question to me is what does the meter reset to. From the ones I've found, most of the time they reset to where they are supposed to, but in a few cases they reset way above what they were supposed to. And that makes it a straight through play.

    I still have a 14% advantage video poker play on two machines in one joint with just a 50 cent bet. But it's still worth $70 an hour at 1000 HPH. It started out with 2 dozen machines scattered around Montana 11 years ago. They slowly disappeared but these last two have been there for years. I hardly play it anymore.
    So with no hand pay, means no taxes, and no pesky slot attendant to reset machine and alert management. The risk comes when kiosk can't cash out $4K and one has to go to cage to get paid. The eye in the sky might get involved and wonder how one could win 4k on a nickel machine and then the jig would be up.

    How would you handle that Mickey? Maybe go to high limit and play 9/6 JOB for a while and cash in there?
    The $4k will be a handpay. If the slot attendant is sharp and motivated enough, or the casino is sweaty enough about jackpots, they'll figure it out eventually.

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    The royal paid $4007. I've found meter reset mistakes myself. Usually, when I find a meter totally out of whack, like the one in the pic, the big question to me is what does the meter reset to. From the ones I've found, most of the time they reset to where they are supposed to, but in a few cases they reset way above what they were supposed to. And that makes it a straight through play.

    I still have a 14% advantage video poker play on two machines in one joint with just a 50 cent bet. But it's still worth $70 an hour at 1000 HPH. It started out with 2 dozen machines scattered around Montana 11 years ago. They slowly disappeared but these last two have been there for years. I hardly play it anymore.
    So with no hand pay, means no taxes, and no pesky slot attendant to reset machine and alert management. The risk comes when kiosk can't cash out $4K and one has to go to cage to get paid. The eye in the sky might get involved and wonder how one could win 4k on a nickel machine and then the jig would be up.

    How would you handle that Mickey? Maybe go to high limit and play 9/6 JOB for a while and cash in there?
    The $4k will be a handpay. If the slot attendant is sharp and motivated enough, or the casino is sweaty enough about jackpots, they'll figure it out eventually.
    The guy said the first handpay went smoothly. They didn't notice it was nickel denom. I would have packs of cigarettes and matches laying on the lower screen to cover it up.
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  3. #23
    Definitely a good call with the cigarettes.

  4. #24
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post

    So with no hand pay, means no taxes, and no pesky slot attendant to reset machine and alert management. The risk comes when kiosk can't cash out $4K and one has to go to cage to get paid. The eye in the sky might get involved and wonder how one could win 4k on a nickel machine and then the jig would be up.

    How would you handle that Mickey? Maybe go to high limit and play 9/6 JOB for a while and cash in there?
    The $4k will be a handpay. If the slot attendant is sharp and motivated enough, or the casino is sweaty enough about jackpots, they'll figure it out eventually.
    The guy said the first handpay went smoothly. They didn't notice it was nickel denom. I would have packs of cigarettes and matches laying on the lower screen to cover it up.
    I used to think that was a good idea to do stuff like that, match books, slot tickets, cigarette pack etc until I heard that some surveillance guys are onto that. Most people don't want to cover up their credits so it's somewhat unusual. Then they can use that so claim you knew what was going on and you were being deceptive and you knew it was wrong to do. Sometimes I even worried about having my cell phone on the machine, I'm thinking they might think I'm somehow using it to fuck with the machine.

    One time When I was approached by security and gaming the first thing they did was grab my wrists and check my watch and bracelets to see if I had a device. Of course, I didn't have any such thing.

    p.s. If something like that ever went to a jury or in front of a judge I don't think a jury or judge would like the fact that you were trying to cover it up.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 05-16-2019 at 10:58 AM.

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post

    The $4k will be a handpay. If the slot attendant is sharp and motivated enough, or the casino is sweaty enough about jackpots, they'll figure it out eventually.
    The guy said the first handpay went smoothly. They didn't notice it was nickel denom. I would have packs of cigarettes and matches laying on the lower screen to cover it up.


    p.s. If something like that ever went to a jury or in front of a judge I don't think a jury or judge would like the fact that you were trying to cover it up.

    Speculative based on assumption.

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    The guy said the first handpay went smoothly. They didn't notice it was nickel denom. I would have packs of cigarettes and matches laying on the lower screen to cover it up.


    p.s. If something like that ever went to a jury or in front of a judge I don't think a jury or judge would like the fact that you were trying to cover it up.

    Speculative based on assumption.
    So do you think a jury and or judge would be less likely or more likely to like the fact you were trying to cover up something like this?

    I don't really care what you think in this case, because I'm fairly sure most people think its more nefarious when you are trying to cover something up. Like when you accidentally kill someone, but then you try to hide the body. Perhaps the first could be forgiven, but not the other.

  7. #27
    This is Barney,

    I don't play the video pokers devices but my bestest friend the LID who is world class dice controller also found the special play in the video pokers about 10 years ago. It gives him most greatest advantage at the video pokers and he told me about it a few years ago. I can describe it on this site after I finish my soup but I don't want to spill bean if some personages are upset about exposing such a video pokers play on open forum. I should be done with soup in about a half hour when I will reveal such a play unless there is objections...

  8. #28
    This is Barney

    Here is the special play at the video pokers which is probably what the Mr. Singer personage used since the LID found it about 10 years ago too.

    1. The special play is form of button control when dealing replacement cards.

    2. If video pokers personages need high card replacements (Ace, King, Queen, and the Jack) he should push the deal button very hard.

    3. If video pokers personages need lower card replacements (1-10s) he should push the button very soft.


    This play gives the most greatest video pokers personages, according to the LID, an advantage of at least 135%

    When using the most hardest button push the LID said he has about a 31% chance of getting the high cards.

    When using the most softest button push the LID said he has about a 69% chance of getting the 1-10s

    I don't play the video pokers but the LID is a very smart fellow who worked at the MIT in the mid 90s

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post



    p.s. If something like that ever went to a jury or in front of a judge I don't think a jury or judge would like the fact that you were trying to cover it up.

    Speculative based on assumption.
    So do you think a jury and or judge would be less likely or more likely to like the fact you were trying to cover up something like this?

    I don't really care what you think in this case, because I'm fairly sure most people think its more nefarious when you are trying to cover something up. Like when you accidentally kill someone, but then you try to hide the body. Perhaps the first could be forgiven, but not the other.

    The player is going to get paid regardless that you think it is nefarious behaviour to try to hide the fact of the $.05 machine payoff. I do not see anything wrong in trying to hide the fact that the casino or manufacturer screwed up the pay table, and hope the reset stays the same.

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post


    Speculative based on assumption.
    So do you think a jury and or judge would be less likely or more likely to like the fact you were trying to cover up something like this?

    I don't really care what you think in this case, because I'm fairly sure most people think its more nefarious when you are trying to cover something up. Like when you accidentally kill someone, but then you try to hide the body. Perhaps the first could be forgiven, but not the other.

    The player is going to get paid regardless that you think it is nefarious behaviour to try to hide the fact of the $.05 machine payoff. I do not see anything wrong in trying to hide the fact that the casino or manufacturer screwed up the pay table, and hope the reset stays the same.
    He's arguing it's evidence that the player knows the machine is glitched. Depending on the nature of the glitch you could credibly claim not to have known anything was wrong with the machine.

    It's not about "nefarious" or right or wrong, it's about preserving plausible deniability.

    Why does nobody on this forum seem to understand anyone else?

  11. #31
    " He's arguing it's evidence that the player knows the machine is glitched. Depending on the nature of the glitch you could credibly claim not to have known anything was wrong with the machine."


    This above claim is bullshit. When is it the responsibility of the player to know how the machine is supposed to be set?


    "
    It's not about "nefarious" or right or wrong, it's about preserving plausible deniability."



    Why the fuck does the player need any kind of plausible deniability in the first place? In fact, if the player came right out and told the truth that the reason he was playing the machine to begin with was because of the pay table itself, as it was not his problem.

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    So do you think a jury and or judge would be less likely or more likely to like the fact you were trying to cover up something like this?

    I don't really care what you think in this case, because I'm fairly sure most people think its more nefarious when you are trying to cover something up. Like when you accidentally kill someone, but then you try to hide the body. Perhaps the first could be forgiven, but not the other.

    The player is going to get paid regardless that you think it is nefarious behaviour to try to hide the fact of the $.05 machine payoff. I do not see anything wrong in trying to hide the fact that the casino or manufacturer screwed up the pay table, and hope the reset stays the same.
    He's arguing it's evidence that the player knows the machine is glitched. Depending on the nature of the glitch you could credibly claim not to have known anything was wrong with the machine.

    It's not about "nefarious" or right or wrong, it's about preserving plausible deniability.

    Why does nobody on this forum seem to understand anyone else?
    Who are you? You seem to get it. Thank god somome has some sence.

    You are correct in your thinking. You never know when or if some casino situation could go bad, even though you were NOT doing anything Illegal. There is always a chance you could end up having to defend yourself. Even if its just a civil thing and not criminal. As we have seen before, most people don't understand gambling and the law. Many people THINK card counting IS ILLEGAL. I had a LV Metro police officer tell me it was illegal. If for some reason I have to go to court for something, I would rather not have them kind of people thinking I was trying to hide and cover up a gaff. They would be way less sympathetic knowing that. Hell, the casino mostly likely wouldn't even mess with you for playing a messed up machine, they normally just shut it down and you are on your way. It's happen many times where the casino just shuts it down(way more often than not) and you can even just go play the machine next to it without ever having an issue. Even if they know you knew what was going on they oftentimes let it slide. However, if they know, you knew exactly what was going on and they know you were trying to cover it up, they would 86 you in a heartbeat.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 05-17-2019 at 10:41 AM.

  13. #33
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    " He's arguing it's evidence that the player knows the machine is glitched. Depending on the nature of the glitch you could credibly claim not to have known anything was wrong with the machine."


    This above claim is bullshit. When is it the responsibility of the player to know how the machine is supposed to be set?


    "
    It's not about "nefarious" or right or wrong, it's about preserving plausible deniability."



    Why the fuck does the player need any kind of plausible deniability in the first place? In fact, if the player came right out and told the truth that the reason he was playing the machine to begin with was because of the pay table itself, as it was not his problem.
    Have you ever played a gaffed machine? Have you ever been in this situation? If not, I must insist that you don't have enough experience or knowledge on the matter, therefor, your comments regarding this stuff should only be lightly considered in conjunction with others who have been in theses situations and have dealt with all aspects of it, including the legal side and dealing with just the casinos.

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    " He's arguing it's evidence that the player knows the machine is glitched. Depending on the nature of the glitch you could credibly claim not to have known anything was wrong with the machine."


    This above claim is bullshit. When is it the responsibility of the player to know how the machine is supposed to be set?


    "
    It's not about "nefarious" or right or wrong, it's about preserving plausible deniability."



    Why the fuck does the player need any kind of plausible deniability in the first place? In fact, if the player came right out and told the truth that the reason he was playing the machine to begin with was because of the pay table itself, as it was not his problem.
    Have you ever played a gaffed machine? Have you ever been in this situation? If not, I must insist that you don't have enough experience or knowledge on the matter, therefor, your comments regarding this stuff should only be lightly considered in conjunction with others who have been in theses situations and have dealt with all aspects of it, including the legal side and dealing with just the casinos.
    Man, you really have some condescending attitude today Axelwolf? Is this really Axelwolf is did one of those snooty, look-down-on=everyone AP's hijack the account?

    Axel, take a chill pill, relax, get laid....whatever it takes. Don't turn into one of those people.

  15. #35
    AxelWolf wrote:


    Have you ever played a gaffed machine? Have you ever been in this situation? If not, I must insist that you don't have enough experience or knowledge on the matter, therefor, your comments regarding this stuff should only be lightly considered in conjunction with others who have been in theses situations and have dealt with all aspects of it, including the legal side and dealing with just the casinos.


    Since you insist on speculating on my lack of supposed experience or not I have no intention to answer anything you may ask me. Although, I find it strange you mildly chided mickeycrimm for actually saying what he would have done in that spot. How come you did not insist that his comments be lightly considered in conjunction with others? When he said in post #22 the following:


    mickeycrimm wrote:


    " The guy said the first handpay went smoothly. They didn't notice it was nickel denom. I would have packs of cigarettes and matches laying on the lower screen to cover it up. "

    AxelWolf, for the record I have a lifetime of experiences in dealing with situations concerning casino managements on various situations. So I politely ask you to mind your own business before you pick a fight with the supposed new guy.
    Last edited by BoSox; 05-17-2019 at 01:22 PM.

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    AxelWolf wrote:


    Have you ever played a gaffed machine? Have you ever been in this situation? If not, I must insist that you don't have enough experience or knowledge on the matter, therefor, your comments regarding this stuff should only be lightly considered in conjunction with others who have been in theses situations and have dealt with all aspects of it, including the legal side and dealing with just the casinos.


    Since you insist on speculating on my lack of supposed experience or not I have no intention to answer anything you may ask me. Although, I find it strange you mildly chided mickeycrimm for actually saying what he would have done in that spot. How come you did not insist that his comments be lightly considered in conjunction with others? When he said in post #22 the following:


    mickeycrimm wrote:


    " The guy said the first handpay went smoothly. They didn't notice it was nickel denom. I would have packs of cigarettes and matches laying on the lower screen to cover it up. "

    AxelWolf, for the record I have a lifetime of experiences in dealing with situations concerning casino managements on various situations. So I politely ask you to mind your own business before you pick a fight with the supposed new guy.
    I will take that as a NO, you havent played machines like this.

    I explained why I didnt think like the idea for the most part. He didn't comment after that. You did multiple times and the debate heated up with you, so I put more thought into it and responded to the person I was engaging with at the time.

    I'm not picking a fight with you. People will read the comments and make their own decision on how to approach a situation like this if they happen to find one. Talk to some seasoned AP's who have been involved with this sort of thing and I bet the majority of them would agree with me. There might be a situation where I think covering your credits or whatever might be the best route to go. I think I would rather distract their attention away from my screen/credits in other ways of at all possible. A standing up and blocking their view, engaging in a conversation or nice tip ofttimes works. How to keep the poppies from noticing
    stuff is a tough one. One of my best plays was killed by a jellouse ploppy.

    Unless I'm on the same play as someone finding a situation like this it won't affect me either way. With that being said... I don't think there is any reason to discuss it further, unless it's an ego thing for you. If so, then I yield to your ego and you win. Cover away people, cover away.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 05-17-2019 at 09:03 PM.

  17. #37
    Talk to some seasoned AP's who have been involved with this sort of thing and I bet the majority of them would agree with me. There might be a situation where I think covering your credits or whatever might be the best route to go. I think I would rather distract their attention away from my screen/credits in other ways of at all possible. A standing up and blocking their view, engaging in a conversation or nice tip ofttimes works.


    Giving a nice tip PRIOR to receiving the actual payout does not sound natural. That in itself should be a red flag alerting the staff that you were in fact exploiting a play by attempting to buy them off. In my mind you should always act cordial with casino personnel just like they should with you but always stand your ground when you are in the right, "especially in that example" and never show weakness.

  18. #38
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Talk to some seasoned AP's who have been involved with this sort of thing and I bet the majority of them would agree with me. There might be a situation where I think covering your credits or whatever might be the best route to go. I think I would rather distract their attention away from my screen/credits in other ways of at all possible. A standing up and blocking their view, engaging in a conversation or nice tip ofttimes works.


    Giving a nice tip PRIOR to receiving the actual payout does not sound natural. That in itself should be a red flag alerting the staff that you were in fact exploiting a play by attempting to buy them off. In my mind you should always act cordial with casino personnel just like they should with you but always stand your ground when you are in the right, "especially in that example" and never show weakness.
    Who said anything about prior? It's at the time of the jackpot payout that they oftentimes reset the machine after they put the money in your hand. This is when they are most likely to notice something is wrong, like the meter didnt reset.

    I have no idea what you are going on about as far as your showing weakness. This isn't a negotiation or business deal, nor are you in-front of some jury or judge. I'm going to do whatever it takes(within reason) to make the play last longer and not get busted. If that means showing weakness, I have no problem with that. If you think the people coming to pay you jackpots notice weakness or care about anything other than the color green and greeting though their day, you are delusional. There may be tiny fraction of employees who are vigilant and on alert for one reason or another but that's very rare.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 05-18-2019 at 04:20 AM.

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