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Thread: Advantage play / cheating / crime....where is the line?

  1. #641
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    My opinion on whether my finding of and then using the double up glitch was legal or not? It probably doesn't come from the same perspective as anyone else here. I have never led the life of a law-breaker, yet I sat at machines and closely examined two home machines and casino machines after finishing my weekly SPS play for the better part of 4 years, not really knowing what I was doing or looking for. I did, however, expect something could be done in the ONLY machine mode where when a hand is "over" it really isn't over. But when that light upstairs suddenly came on (ie, I caught the bill feeder light being on out of the corner of my eye before the hand was "really over") then my efforts seemed worth it.

    To be honest, I truly didn't know and still don't, if what I did was illegal or not. I do not know if just because the feds dropped the case, if that meant what I did was legal. I always felt the state could keep pursuing a case. I try to rationalize the fact that I refused to ever use an existing hand I did not play for or hit, and how I never used any winners I hit more than once, as the moral equivalency of it possibly being legal. But that's all I have. The way the Kane case closed down helped, but because it seemed sloppy and you can never 100% trust anything when it comes to issues like this, it didn't guarantee anything to me. That's why I waited out the 10 years.

    Dan, ATM's are a COMPLETELY different animal. You know that.
    It looks like Dan hasn't yet caught up with the fact that Rob is claiming to have worked the same glitch as Kane and Nestor.
    I agree. I'm thinking he must be heavily involved with getting ready for the WSOP.

  2. #642
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Name:  
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    Seemed like a good picture for the discussion.
    I'll say it since I don't care about abortion one way or the other, and those two weirdos Beto O'Dork & Pete Buttfuckajudge or whatever his fairy-ass name is, can't slither their way into this thread: a 28oz. Bud IS NOT conducive to finding the double up glitch in ANY situation.

  3. #643
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    I will not fault a casino for doing what it is intended to do, which many APs don’t understand. One more time for you since you appeared to miss it: A casino’s business model is to extract money from people by giving them entertainment through negative EV games. It’s that simple. Since casinos make a lot of money, people most enjoy this experience since they keep coming back.

    Do you extend the same indulgence to pimps, crack dealers, sex traffickers, etc.? You don't fault them because they're doing what they're "intended" to do?

    You blame governments for permitting casinos and degenerate gamblers for gambling at them, but you don't fault the entity that actually makes a profit from the activity?

    For some reason you treat casinos as mechanical entities just automatically doing what they were "intended" to do, but you blame every other group that has any role in the gambling industry. It seems very strange to me.
    I can see you’re still missing my point smurgerburger. In case you didn’t know this, we are a nation of laws! Pimps, crack dealers and sex traffickers are doing something against the law so they should be dealt with accordingly. Casinos are not against the law. If they were and casinos were operating, then our government should deal with them harshly.

    If you have a problem with casinos, then you should work with our government to get them shut down. If casinos are doing something illegal (like strapping someone to a slot machine and making him/her pour his/her life savings into the slot machine) then you should report this to the authorities and get that casino shut down and the prepertators thrown in jail.

    If the casinos are doing nothing against the law, then you should quite your constant complaining. It sounds like you are complaining about casinos doing what they are supposed to do. Their business model is to extract money from people through negative EV games. Everybody knows the House has the edge on all their games so no one is misled when they go into a casino.

    It’s STRANGE you’re having such a hard time understanding this.

  4. #644
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    we are a nation of laws!
    this myth needs to die.

  5. #645
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Bob's arguments seem very strange to me.

    He concedes all of the allegations of dirty tricks by casinos, but is angry that people blame casinos for these actions, because casinos exist to make money and anything done legally to make money is ok?

    This is a particularly strange attitude for a conservative Christian. He must be a great fan of abortion clinics which are both legal (for now) and typically non-profit I believe.
    You’re missing my point smurgerburger. I have never conceded casinos use “dirty tricks”. Where did you get that? I said casinos do the same thing every other business does. They use marketing to try to sell more product to the customers. They use loyalty programs, and other marketing tools. All companies do this. I do not see this as “dirty tricks”. Apperantly you do.

    I’ve said many times I try to keep casinos out of my local community. I fault our government for allowing casinos to operate. Governments, state and local, are why casinos exist. Governments know the weaker members of society (the one liberals label as “addicts”) will be negatively impacted when they let casinos in, but they still approve them. That should tell you something about our government, which is a reflection of us, since we’re a democracy.

    I will not fault a casino for doing what it is intended to do, which many APs don’t understand. One more time for you since you appeared to miss it: A casino’s business model is to extract money from people by giving them entertainment through negative EV games. It’s that simple. Since casinos make a lot of money, people most enjoy this experience since they keep coming back.

    For all intent and purposes the government itself created the weaker members of society "your words" that you talk about Bob. I will describe it as a lower class of people that became addicted by a complete dependancy on the governments welfare policies. All started by the democratic party under Lyndon Johnson's term a complete failure, just to win elections. Now it is a vicious cycle with the combination of lottery sales and gaming establishments recouping moneys that the government receives a big share and hands out to generation upon generation of welfare addicts. I blame the Democratic Party for all of this bullshit.


    The Boz sumed up perfectly with the picture the slimy underhanded casino perspective in post #620. I had seen many of those type signs in Vegas in the mid eighties and nineties when I went often.
    Last edited by BoSox; 05-28-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  6. #646
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Bob's arguments seem very strange to me.

    He concedes all of the allegations of dirty tricks by casinos, but is angry that people blame casinos for these actions, because casinos exist to make money and anything done legally to make money is ok?

    This is a particularly strange attitude for a conservative Christian. He must be a great fan of abortion clinics which are both legal (for now) and typically non-profit I believe.
    You’re missing my point smurgerburger. I have never conceded casinos use “dirty tricks”. Where did you get that? I said casinos do the same thing every other business does. They use marketing to try to sell more product to the customers. They use loyalty programs, and other marketing tools. All companies do this. I do not see this as “dirty tricks”. Apperantly you do.

    I’ve said many times I try to keep casinos out of my local community. I fault our government for allowing casinos to operate. Governments, state and local, are why casinos exist. Governments know the weaker members of society (the one liberals label as “addicts”) will be negatively impacted when they let casinos in, but they still approve them. That should tell you something about our government, which is a reflection of us, since we’re a democracy.

    I will not fault a casino for doing what it is intended to do, which many APs don’t understand. One more time for you since you appeared to miss it: A casino’s business model is to extract money from people by giving them entertainment through negative EV games. It’s that simple. Since casinos make a lot of money, people most enjoy this experience since they keep coming back.

    For all intent and purposes the government itself created the weaker members of society "your words" that you talk about Bob. I will describe it as a lower class of people that became addicted by a complete dependancy on the governments welfare policies. All started by the democratic party under Lyndon Johnson's term a complete failure, just to win elections. Now it is a vicious cycle with the combination of lottery sales and gaming establishments recouping moneys that the government receives a big share and hands out to generation upon generation of welfare addicts. I blame the Democratic Party for all of this bullshit.


    The Boz sumed up perfectly with the picture the slimy underhanded casino perspective in post #620. I had seen many of those type signs in Vegas in the mid eighties and nineties when I went often.
    You and I are on the same page on this one Bosox. It’s the Democrats and liberals who have screwed up this country and developed a dependent underclass, which most the times keeps them elected. They want people to think government is the solution to all their problems, but government most the time is the problem.

    Look at the states that let casinos in first. It’s mostly the liberal states. The conservative states like Texas have tried to keep them out, but it’s only a matter of time before every state legalizes casinos.

  7. #647
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Name:  
Views: 
Size:


    Seemed like a good picture for the discussion.
    I'll say it since I don't care about abortion one way or the other, and those two weirdos Beto O'Dork & Pete Buttfuckajudge or whatever his fairy-ass name is, can't slither their way into this thread: a 28oz. Bud IS NOT conducive to finding the double up glitch in ANY situation.

    I was talking more about the 2nd line of the marquee Rob.

    That said a 28oz Bud has a time and a place.

    And Fuck (since you can say it here) Beto, Pete & Monet.

    Just added Monet because for some reason he is pissed for me calling him out on his own statements that NO ONE should ever trust him.

  8. #648
    Bob,

    I believe your position was something like "It's ok for casinos to do what many would regard as bad because that's what they are intended to do".

    I responded with the example of crack dealers etc. and you responded that they are bad because what they are doing is illegal.

    So your new position is that anything is ok as long as it's legal.

    I'm going to avoid any references to the Third Reich as just too obvious but since you have indicated that you are both a conservative and a Christian, do you find abortion clinics unobjectionable? They are doing what they are "intended to do" and they are legal.

  9. #649
    Walmart exists to sell things (just as casinos exits to win money from gambling). I am sure you can find studies that will show people buy more when half drunk. Especially bigger ticket items like appliances and cars. Should Walmart and auto dealers start providing a few shots upon entering? And then where do you draw the line? Maybe the casino industry could start providing a couple lines of cocaine?

    And here is a difference between the casino industry and the airline industry Bob21 (you made this comparison). Nobody becomes homeless from flying too much. Nobody can't pay the rent or buy groceries for their kids because they flew too much. And the reason this matter is because we pay for this. Taxpayers support these homeless that the casino industry creates. Taxpayers support the welfare families that the casino industry creates.

  10. #650
    Wow- this subject is worn out! I would a done the same thing! Why? When this feature was available, I didn't know what it was-I hit the wrong button and LOST $800. When I realized I had hit yes, I tried to argue with management and wanted it cleared. Guess what their answer was.

  11. #651
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Walmart exists to sell things (just as casinos exits to win money from gambling). I am sure you can find studies that will show people buy more when half drunk. Especially bigger ticket items like appliances and cars. Should Walmart and auto dealers start providing a few shots upon entering? And then where do you draw the line? Maybe the casino industry could start providing a couple lines of cocaine?

    And here is a difference between the casino industry and the airline industry Bob21 (you made this comparison). Nobody becomes homeless from flying too much. Nobody can't pay the rent or buy groceries for their kids because they flew too much. And the reason this matter is because we pay for this. Taxpayers support these homeless that the casino industry creates. Taxpayers support the welfare families that the casino industry creates.
    Kj, you’re actually making my point for me. That’s why casinos should be illegal. Or should I say that’s why casinos have been illegal for most of our country’s history. It’s for the exact point you’re making. To protect the weak members of our society, who will be harmed by casinos. Liberals call weak members of our society “addicted”. Btw, saying someone is “addicted” absolves them from personal responsibility for their actions.

    Kj, if you believe strongly in what you wrote, then you should work on making casinos illegal. It makes no sense to blame an industry that was made legal by our government to do what they are intended to do. And what is that? To take money from people who enjoy playing negative EV games. Casinos are basically our government’s volunteer tax program.

    Don’t blame casinos if you are upset with them. Blame our government for allowing them to exist. That’s been my point all along. I can tell most are still missing it. But nobody ever said APs are the sharpest tool in the tool shed. Lol.

  12. #652
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Bob,

    I believe your position was something like "It's ok for casinos to do what many would regard as bad because that's what they are intended to do".

    I responded with the example of crack dealers etc. and you responded that they are bad because what they are doing is illegal.

    So your new position is that anything is ok as long as it's legal.

    I'm going to avoid any references to the Third Reich as just too obvious but since you have indicated that you are both a conservative and a Christian, do you find abortion clinics unobjectionable? They are doing what they are "intended to do" and they are legal.
    Smurgerburger, yes I find abortion clinics objectionable. That’s why I’m working through our government to make abortion illegal so I can get them shut down. That’s why I voted for Trump. He is electing Supreme Court judges who will get Roe vs Wade over turned. Then maybe we can get abortion back to being illegal, and protect the weakest members of our society, the unborn. Btw, this is the main role of government. To protect the most vulnerable and weakest members of our society.

    As I’ve said before, we are a nation of laws. If you don’t like our laws, then you should work to get them changed. That’s what I’m doing.

    If all you APs don’t like casinos because you believe they are taking advantage of the weak members of our society, then you should work to get them shut down. Sitting on forums complaining about casinos isn’t helping anybody. And taking money from a casino as an AP is also not helping the people you claim to care about. The ones that are “addicted” to gambling.

    Btw, I can tell this abortion issue is a hot bottom issue with you since you bring it up all the time. I hope you are also working on getting abortion clinics shut down like I am.
    Last edited by Bob21; 05-28-2019 at 09:36 PM.

  13. #653
    I brought up abortion because I presumed you were pro-life and thought that that contradicted your earlier credo - "I will not fault a casino for doing what it is intended to do".

    Well do you fault an abortion clinic or an abortion doctor for doing what he or it are intended to do?

  14. #654
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    I brought up abortion because I presumed you were pro-life and thought that that contradicted your earlier credo - "I will not fault a casino for doing what it is intended to do".

    Well do you fault an abortion clinic or an abortion doctor for doing what he or it are intended to do?
    Smurgerburger, you’re a sick sick man if you don’t see the difference between providing negative EV games to the public for the purpose of entertainment and taking the life of someone because they are inconvenient to someone else. Yes, abortion clinics have been legalized in our country since Row vs Wade, but that doesn’t make them right.

    Are you saying that whatever our country (or any country) makes legal becomes okay and acceptable? Many countries have made things legal that are wrong and a person who has a conscience shouldn’t participate in, and, in fact, should work to make illegal.

    I’m still struggling with understanding your argument. I’ve said all along if someone thinks casinos are immoral or doing something wrong, then they should work to get them shut down. I don’t. Apparently you do, since you keep equating abortion (the killing of an unborn life) to casinos (legalized gambling). Since you feel so strongly that legalized gambling is wrong, are you working to get casinos shut down?

    Btw, there are many examples of gambling in the Bible. There is no commandment in the Old or New Testament against gambling. There are commendments against taking someone’s life. While you apparently don’t see the difference between abortion and casinos, God does. Or should I say the Bible does. I really feel sorry for you. You seem to have some really messed up beliefs. It sounds like you lost your moral compass. Are you a liberal by any chance?

  15. #655
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    I brought up abortion because I presumed you were pro-life and thought that that contradicted your earlier credo - "I will not fault a casino for doing what it is intended to do".

    Well do you fault an abortion clinic or an abortion doctor for doing what he or it are intended to do?
    Smurgerburger, you’re a sick sick man if you don’t see the difference between providing negative EV games to the public for the purpose of entertainment and taking the life of someone because they are inconvenient to someone else. Yes, abortion clinics have been legalized in our country since Row vs Wade, but that doesn’t make them right.

    Are you saying that whatever our country (or any country) makes legal becomes okay and acceptable? Many countries have made things legal that are wrong and a person who has a conscience shouldn’t participate in, and, in fact, should work to make illegal.

    I’m still struggling with understanding your argument. I’ve said all along if someone thinks casinos are immoral or doing something wrong, then they should work to get them shut down. I don’t. Apparently you do, since you keep equating abortion (the killing of an unborn life) to casinos (legalized gambling). Since you feel so strongly that legalized gambling is wrong, are you working to get casinos shut down?

    Btw, there are many examples of gambling in the Bible. There is no commandment in the Old or New Testament against gambling. There are commendments against taking someone’s life. While you apparently don’t see the difference between abortion and casinos, God does. Or should I say the Bible does. I really feel sorry for you. You seem to have some really messed up beliefs. It sounds like you lost your moral compass. Are you a liberal by any chance?
    The disciples chose Matthias by casting lots. The soldiers cast lots for Jesus' garments. Clearly two examples showing the difference of good and bad. Paul wrote that whatever a man senses is wrong-or hurts the brethren-to him it is wrong. Every man has to answer for himself.

  16. #656
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Are you saying that whatever our country (or any country) makes legal becomes okay and acceptable? Many countries have made things legal that are wrong and a person who has a conscience shouldn’t participate in, and, in fact, should work to make illegal.

    No Bob I believe you were saying that, remember?

    "Casinos are free from blame because they are doing what they are intended to do",

    then

    "casinos are free from blame because they are doing what it is legal to do"

    to now...

    "casinos are free from blame according to my 'moral compass'"

    We could have saved ourselves some time if you had just started here.

  17. #657
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Are you saying that whatever our country (or any country) makes legal becomes okay and acceptable? Many countries have made things legal that are wrong and a person who has a conscience shouldn’t participate in, and, in fact, should work to make illegal.

    No Bob I believe you were saying that, remember?

    "Casinos are free from blame because they are doing what they are intended to do",

    then

    "casinos are free from blame because they are doing what it is legal to do"

    to now...

    "casinos are free from blame according to my 'moral compass'"

    We could have saved ourselves some time if you had just started here.
    I can tell you are a little dense smurgerburger. You’re twisting things trying to relate abortion to casino. I think abortion is wrong and casinos are not. Why is that so hard for you to understand. When our country legalized abortion, I think that is wrong. When our county legalized casinos, I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it’s not something that is wrong.

    If you or any other AP has a problem with casinos, you should blame our government. Again, casinos are doing what they are supposed to do, extracting money from people by playing negative EV games. Why are you having such difficulty understanding that?

    Abortion clinics are also doing what our country has made legal, but I don’t believe it’s right. I get some do. It’s usually the liberal crowd. I know Democrats love abortions, and want to make it as easy as possible to get an abortion. Btw, many doctors will not perform an abortion. In fact, most hospitals won’t perform abortions. That’s why there are abortion clinics.

    I can tell you aren’t going to get the distinction I’m making. Since your logic is faulty, I’m convinced you’re a left wing liberal.

  18. #658

  19. #659
    I took boob21 off of ignore for a couple days. Then put him right back on. He’s a blooming idiot.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #660
    Bob21 wrote:

    I can tell you are a little dense smurgerburger.

    I can tell you aren’t going to get the distinction I’m making. Since your logic is faulty, I’m convinced you’re a left wing liberal.


    smurgerburger, is anything but dense if anything he has figured out just how you hedge everything you say to have a slightly different meaning. Either way he has debated you with courtesy and respect please reciprocate.
    Last edited by BoSox; 05-29-2019 at 03:20 PM.

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