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Thread: Advantage play / cheating / crime....where is the line?

  1. #581
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    redietz....you know who I am from LV Advice. Tell these yahoos I'm not this Coach Belly character. Sheesh. What a welcoming bunch.
    Unowme. If. That’s. Your. Real. Name. Welcome to VCT. We’re all bozos on this bus.
    Well thank you. I really just signed up here because I have long had an interest in the double up exploit and thought I could contribute. Although I am a recreational gambler, I know math. I have known about this forum for a long time, and occasionally read it.

    This thread was actually linked in another forum. That's what brought it to my attention. I have also known about Singer and his system ever since he was a nasty poster on Las Vegas advisor....so of course I also wanted to speculate about who would play him in the movie version of his latest adventure.

    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you. I'm sure no one would confuse us in person as I have have never been a coach and don't really have a big belly. I sometimes have some bad B.O. though.

  2. #582
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    redietz....you know who I am from LV Advice. Tell these yahoos I'm not this Coach Belly character. Sheesh. What a welcoming bunch.
    Unowme. If. That’s. Your. Real. Name. Welcome to VCT. We’re all bozos on this bus.
    Well thank you. I really just signed up here because I have long had an interest in the double up exploit and thought I could contribute. Although I am a recreational gambler, I know math. I have known about this forum for a long time, and occasionally read it.

    This thread was actually linked in another forum. That's what brought it to my attention. I have also known about Singer and his system ever since he was a nasty poster on Las Vegas advisor....so of course I also wanted to speculate about who would play him in the movie version of his latest adventure.

    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you. I'm sure no one would confuse us in person as I have have never been a coach and don't really have a big belly. I sometimes have some bad B.O. though.
    If you know math it’s a cinch you are not belly. Lol. And Robert De Niro should play Rob.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #583
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I guess "deflection" is another term for what I call muddying the waters. That is what you do when you don't have an answer that is supported by math. And Rob Singer (person or persona) is a master of it.
    Kj, this is a good point. I’ve noticed it too. I don’t know if it’s so much “mudding the waters” or “deflection”, as just saying something irrelevant to the point. I guess this is all saying the same thing.

    When I saw Rob say he looked for the “bug” or something that looks like a bug, this sounds technical but it’s meaningless. What’s looking like a bug mean? A bug is a bug.

    Also, he tried to make a point that this was brought on by losing for four years and being upset at the machine and casinos. When you’re looking for bugs, it’s irrelevant if you’re losing or winning in the past. Bugs have to be present otherwise you aren’t going to find them.

    If you follow Rob’s timeline, he had been looking for this bug (or something that looks like a bug, lol) for four years. Since the bug had only been in the game with the new update in 2003, that means Rob had been looking for the bug for 2 and half years when the game had no bug (or something that looked liked bugs, lol).

    Most people wouldn’t keep looking for bugs (or things that look like bugs) after not finding one for four years. I’m still unclear why Rob would think a bug was in this machine when he hadn’t found one for four years.

    So after four years looking for bugs or things that look like bugs, he finally found one. Personally, this is hard for me to believe.

    Here’s the thing we all know: The wired article gave anybody who wants to a way to make up a story like Rob’s. It clearly stated this bug had been in the machine for 7 years before Kane and Nestor exploited in a drunken push bottom stupor, or that’s the story, which I’m starting to believe the more I read the article because neither one is very smart.

    To compete Rob’s story, the only other thing someone would need to know is the right sequence of buttons to push, which apparently is incorrect in the article. Personally, I don’t think there was any intent on getting that wrong in the article. I mean the play is long gone so who cares. They didn’t do it protect anything or anybody. There would be no security reason to not reveal it in the article. And since so many people knew about this play anyway, as I’ve previously pointed out, I don’t think it’d be too hard to know what it was, as if anybody really cares.

    Again, it doesn’t matter to me, other than I like a good detective story and this is a good one. I have no stake in the game.

    One more think about math I was thinking about. As most know, I’m somewhat new on these forums, although I know I have my share of detractors (and a couple people like Mickey who have put me on ignore because he doesn’t like opinions different than his). It appears that Rob has been on these forums for 20 years or so and has his own system which most don’t agree with, even before this bug play or story was discovered.

    From a math standpoint, it just doesn’t add up that the person who has a system most don’t think makes sense is also the same person who discovered a bug 5 and 1/2 years before anybody else. This is just looking at it from a math (statistical) standpoint.

    All in all, an interesting thread. Good to see both sides and the way Rob comes back at his detractors.

    Now it’s time for me to enjoy my Memorial weekend. A shout out to everyone who has served in our military or who has kids who served. I have the upmost respect for these people. They allow us the freedom to express our views in this great nation of ours!!! And Dan stays true to the principles of our country by allowing free speech and not censoring people on this site for differing opinions. Best site on the internet!!!
    Last edited by Bob21; 05-25-2019 at 08:32 AM.

  4. #584
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you.
    No need to apologize, not your fault...those guys believe what they need to believe.

    Members have a wide latitude to post whatever around here, but deliberately editing quotes to mislead others should be off limits.

    Everybody already knew that tewlj is a cocksucker and the ditz is a flake, and now they know that tableplay is a scumbag.

  5. #585
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you.
    No need to apologize, not your fault...those guys believe what they need to believe.

    Members have a wide latitude to post whatever around here, but deliberately editing quotes to mislead others should be off limits.

    Everybody already knew that tewlj is a cocksucker and the ditz is a flake, and now they know that tableplay is a scumbag.
    Most, if not all know you are a whiny piece of shit as well

  6. #586
    Cocksuckers, flakes, scumbags and whiny pieces of shit? Such a diverse group here. Maybe we can all have an epic meet and greet next time I'm in Vegas.
    Last edited by unowme; 05-25-2019 at 09:01 AM.

  7. #587
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    [

    but deliberately editing quotes to mislead others should be off limits.
    What about deliberately editing a name not to mislead others but to make the point that one thinks someone is a sockpuppet via a joke ?

  8. #588
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I have banned Keystone because he contributes little to this forum, aside from trolling.

  9. #589
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you.
    No need to apologize, not your fault...those guys believe what they need to believe.

    Members have a wide latitude to post whatever around here, but deliberately editing quotes to mislead others should be off limits.

    Everybody already knew that tewlj is a cocksucker and the ditz is a flake, and now they know that tableplay is a scumbag.

    Fortunately for this board that it has KewlJ, Redietz, and tableplay as members who understand when someone is engaged in fabrications.

  10. #590
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you.
    No need to apologize, not your fault...those guys believe what they need to believe.

    Members have a wide latitude to post whatever around here, but deliberately editing quotes to mislead others should be off limits.

    Everybody already knew that tewlj is a cocksucker and the ditz is a flake, and now they know that tableplay is a scumbag.

    Fortunately for this board that it has KewlJ, Redietz, and tableplay as members who understand when someone is engaged in fabrications.
    And, of course, this board is very fortunate to have Bobo, forum detective.

  11. #591
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you.
    No need to apologize, not your fault...those guys believe what they need to believe.

    Members have a wide latitude to post whatever around here, but deliberately editing quotes to mislead others should be off limits.

    Everybody already knew that tewlj is a cocksucker and the ditz is a flake, and now they know that tableplay is a scumbag.

    Fortunately for this board that it has KewlJ, Redietz, and tableplay as members who understand when someone is engaged in fabrications.
    Thanks Bosox.

  12. #592
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Most, if not all know you are a whiny piece of shit as well
    Same goes for Brian Bosworth.

  13. #593
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Cocksuckers, flakes, scumbags and whiny pieces of shit? Such a diverse group here. Maybe we can all have an epic meet and greet next time I'm in Vegas.
    Yes there is all kinds lol

  14. #594
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you.
    No need to apologize, not your fault...those guys believe what they need to believe.

    Members have a wide latitude to post whatever around here, but deliberately editing quotes to mislead others should be off limits.

    Everybody already knew that tewlj is a cocksucker and the ditz is a flake, and now they know that tableplay is a scumbag.


    tableplay wrote in post #533


    All you are doing is increasing the probability of a winning "session" at the expense of losing more when you do lose. Thus the aggregate loss is the same. There would be no point in pursuing this any further because of this. The only way to come out a winner is to win initially and then to never play again (on a -EV game). The wager to make with you is the aggregate $ amount won over a 1000 "sessions" (with say a million hands played) - not the percentage of "sessions" won or lost.


    tableplay wrote in post #570



    Since this was explained to you by several people and you ignored the answers, it would be futile to answer you. For new forum members alone I answer this Ron. You could simply use a larger bankroll to achieve your $2500 "session" goal thereby "winning" 85% of your sessions. The sum total of the wins derived from 85% of the "sessions" would be less than the amount lost in the remaining 15% of the "sessions" however. This is why you would never accept a bet based on an absolute dollar amount.


    The two above quotes by tableplay put this debate into its proper perspective by telling the flat out truth. Especially for new members and loyal fans of Rob Singer such as slingshot and pahrump pete. Of course some people will not understand or I should say WANT to understand great work when they see it. All of this boils down to this following statement:


    No matter how you try you cannot make a negative expectation positive over the long term.

    You can disguise it in various forms of betting systems like the Martingale but unfortunately, they will all fail in the long run. The truth hurts sometimes.
    Last edited by BoSox; 05-25-2019 at 01:22 PM.

  15. #595
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    The two above quotes by tableplay put this debate into its proper perspective by telling the flat out truth.
    It’s about time someone put this debate into the proper perspective and told the flat out truth. Thanks for pointing that out to everyone Bosox. Good job!

  16. #596
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    To Coach Belly...I apologize to you that somehow these people believe I am you.
    No need to apologize, not your fault...those guys believe what they need to believe.

    Members have a wide latitude to post whatever around here, but deliberately editing quotes to mislead others should be off limits.

    Everybody already knew that tewlj is a cocksucker and the ditz is a flake, and now they know that tableplay is a scumbag.


    tableplay wrote in post #533


    All you are doing is increasing the probability of a winning "session" at the expense of losing more when you do lose. Thus the aggregate loss is the same. There would be no point in pursuing this any further because of this. The only way to come out a winner is to win initially and then to never play again (on a -EV game). The wager to make with you is the aggregate $ amount won over a 1000 "sessions" (with say a million hands played) - not the percentage of "sessions" won or lost.


    tableplay wrote in post #570



    Since this was explained to you by several people and you ignored the answers, it would be futile to answer you. For new forum members alone I answer this Ron. You could simply use a larger bankroll to achieve your $2500 "session" goal thereby "winning" 85% of your sessions. The sum total of the wins derived from 85% of the "sessions" would be less than the amount lost in the remaining 15% of the "sessions" however. This is why you would never accept a bet based on an absolute dollar amount.


    The two above quotes by tableplay put this debate into its proper perspective by telling the flat out truth. Especially for new members and loyal fans of Rob Singer such as slingshot and pahrump pete. Of course some people will not understand or I should say WANT to understand great work when they see it. All of this boils down to this following statement:


    No matter how you try you cannot make a negative expectation positive over the long term.

    You can disguise it in various forms of betting systems like the Martingale but unfortunately, they will all fail in the long run. The truth hurts sometimes.
    Thanks Bosox.

  17. #597
    Several of you people have me shaking my head---you are so very confused. I can only hope you guys aren't taking your misguided theories into the real world of work.

    What I've developed is a way of winning very consistently at video poker only. You folks are running in circles with all your purported "facts" about SPS, trying SO hard to make unsubstantiated claim after claim with virtually no known data. OTOH, my historicals from playing 150-200 sessions run at a nearly 86% rate of winning sessions. Again, 61% my ass.

    Am I really this much smarter about what the best methods I've used to win at video poker are, than you guys? I guess so. And I'm still waiting for an answer as to why the WoV math mensas wouldn't accept my challenge of winning at least 8 of 10 sessions, when Einstein himself is claiming 6 of 10 is almost guaranteed. What's the math say about THAT +EV play? Or are we gonna get the same old escape clause: +EV means win, and -EV means lose? If you only knew how elementary that makes you appear.....

  18. #598
    Rob, give it a rest, will you?

  19. #599
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Rob, give it a rest, will you?
    He truly believes we have the word "SUCKER" on our foreheads. What a moron he is.

  20. #600
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Rob, give it a rest, will you?
    I've argued over and over again with Rob about his system going back to 2006. Arci goes back to 2003 arguing with him about it. Lots of people have jumped in here and there with great arguments of why it doesn't work. vpFREE, LVA, Videopoker.com, WoV, Alanbestbuys and now Vegas Casino Talk. Rob has taken on all comers. I've argued and read the same great arguments against his system for 13 years. Rob has never given an inch. And he never will.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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