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Thread: Advantage play / cheating / crime....where is the line?

  1. #441
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    The problem is that "Singer" has spent decades and many dozens, if not hundreds, of his 7000 posts here emphasizing that he doesn't routinely play with a player's card, and that anyone relying on freeplay to turn a profit is a sucker and so on.
    This is 100% correct. Because what little elementary machine play I and my partner did, WAS completely dependent on the free play and mail offers, I must have asked Rob dozens of times and dozens of times he said exactly what Redietz just wrote that his Singer system was not dependent on free play or offers and that he did not play rated. And each time I questioned him, again probably dozens, maybe 50, I would beg him to share just exactly what it was that turned his -EV games into positive expectation, which is what you need to achieve what Rob originally claimed for 10 years and now is claiming for 4 years, $375k in profit....and he never did, never could.

    Mickey, you know everything I just stated is true. This explanation of yours that it was the free play that made the difference is just false. The story is changing just as Rob always does and you seem now to be grasping at straws trying to legitimize the preposterous claims of your new friend.

  2. #442
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    The problem is that "Singer" has spent decades and many dozens, if not hundreds, of his 7000 posts here emphasizing that he doesn't routinely play with a player's card, and that anyone relying on freeplay to turn a profit is a sucker and so on.
    This is 100% correct. Because what little elementary machine play I and my partner did, WAS completely dependent on the free play and mail offers, I must have asked Rob dozens of times and dozens of times he said exactly what Redietz just wrote that his Singer system was not dependent on free play or offers and that he did not play rated. And each time I questioned him, again probably dozens, maybe 50, I would beg him to share just exactly what it was that turned his -EV games into positive expectation, which is what you need to achieve what Rob originally claimed for 10 years and now is claiming for 4 years, $375k in profit....and he never did, never could.

    Mickey, you know everything I just stated is true. This explanation of yours that it was the free play that made the difference is just false. The story is changing just as Rob always does and you seem now to be grasping at straws trying to legitimize the preposterous claims of your new friend.
    You two dummies deserve each other. I always used a card when I played my strategy. The years I stated that I mostly did not use a card were the years I played the DU glitch....which was the same time period I was telling everybody I was still playing my strategy. Of course, redietz couldn't figure that out, and kew would never want to.

    You idiots just can't stop getting caught in your own traps. Enjoy trying to wiggle out.

  3. #443
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    You two dummies deserve each other. I always used a card when I played my strategy. The years I stated that I mostly did not use a card were the years I played the DU glitch....which was the same time period I was telling everybody I was still playing my strategy. Of course, redietz couldn't figure that out, and kew would never want to.

    You idiots just can't stop getting caught in your own traps. Enjoy trying to wiggle out.
    Ron, if that is the case, it is another case of your story and claim changing. I mean my arguments and challenges are based on what YOU said. And based on what YOU said, the math to this claim didn't add up. If you now are changing your story and claim to include that the thing that made this play +EV was the free plays and offers, that is not on me, that is on you. I argued and challenged what YOU said. It is not my job to try to figure out what you are or aren't lying about or what your story/claim may change to next. This is on YOU!

    I asked probably 50, maybe 100 times just what it was that would make a -EV play into a longterm winner and you never, ever said the free play. You always maintained that it was not. Had you said it was the free play, I would have understood that and not challenged you because that is what I and my partner were doing on a smaller scale.

    All this lying and dishonesty is on you not me. And that is exactly what I am talking about with credibility.

  4. #444
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Where did the 5% risk of ruin come from? I'd like to see the math on that one. I'm not sure anyone truly understands the finer points of this betting system including Singer himself so who modeled it and how?
    By the way sir, ROR has no application here - ROR is meaningful for positive expectation games only. The ROR calculation is easy on negative expectation games like Ron's system (98.12% Bonus Poker)- the ROR is 100%.
    It was my understanding that the 5% figure was the probability of losing your $56,000 bankroll before hitting your 'session win goal'. That would certainly ruin my day, but if that's not a RoR calculation then maybe we can call it a ROLYBIOS calculation (Risk of Losing Your Bankroll in One Session). Whatever we call it, I just want to understand exactly how that probability of 5% was calculated...where did it come from?...what's the formula??
    I'm not sure why you are asking me where it came from as I did not declare that it was 5%. I merely answered Redietz's question about an event that had a 5% of occurring, not occurring over a course of 150 trials. In any case, here is a mathematical treatment of this for video poker:
    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/VPRoR.htm

  5. #445
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Yes. It was naive thinking to be sure. As you say, a better reason is because you can safely churn more playthrough with the added 50/50 bet (as for beating it, well that's a hell of a good reason to stop it too.) - just like the odds bet in craps if a player is being rated for their play (that's why a few casinos limit the max odds bets to 2 or 3 to 1). But retrospectively, I now believe the primary reason was the Nestor/Kane bug that Ron discovered independently. The reasons you gave are valid and are most likely secondary and tertiary (with my reason only a very small fractional quaternary component of its elimination) motivations for eliminating it (I'm sure it can be found in small shops around the country on very rare occasions like convenience stores, bar tops in dive bars, rural/smaill indian casinos, etc.).
    I agree. I think it was the bug that was the main reason.
    I remember talking about it to a few pals when they were taking them out but we just figured what I said earlier because that information wasn't known yet.
    The other thing about double up, though, is you don't get rated on that play, so it kinda defeats the purpose if playing flat.
    However, to get even money in the Casino is always worth investigating... am I right?
    Double Up is still around... it isn't completely taken out in Vegas.
    It isn't very wide spread though.
    Yes you're right IMHO. I think there were some casinos that did count the double-up towards tier points and player's club points. IIRC, many originally did this and then got wise to it and changed the system to not count it. But for the sake of argument let's say it never counted for tier or rewards points. The casino is still exposed to greater risk since a small bet can be turned into a big profit with a lucky streak. Casino management wants to manage risk and (unlimited) 50/50 bets jeopardize risk management - making it much more difficult. They would love to have high variance on all bets, but of course no one would play if it gets too out of balance so they have to have variance at the "not too tart, not to sweet level". Anyhow, I believe they could limit the double-ups in the settings menu (I am not positive about this) and if they did, I think that I remember seeing 3 double-ups max occuring at a couple shops back then.
    Yes, there were double up machines that gave points for doubling up. but not many that I know of, and all the ones I knew of were for comps only, so, it wasn't really worth doing just for that reason. I guess, before my time there could have been more around that were giving cash back.

    The Willams Blackjack was over 100% and had let it ride(different than double up since you are playing your wins into the next hand) and they had some places with very generous comps and some with cash back. It was only really worthwhile if you played the $1 version, but they only had those in a few places. The $1 versions were mostly in Reno and Lake Tahoe, some of best comps ever for me, including mall shopping, limos anywhere and the casino paid for it all, I would use the comps to buy gold jewelry from the gift shops (good times).

    There were a few places that were giving points on the old multi-game machines when you feed in coins and banked them in the credit meter without ever having to play.

    The Stardust had a slot machines that whenever you lined up 2 blue sevens (3 blue sevens was the top jackpot for 1k) it allowed you to feed in 3 more coins for a chance to spin the 3rd reel. it counted the coins going in and gave points when you did this. You could decline the 3rd reel spin and just cash out the coins, You could just keep doing that over and over without having to make any more spins. They had a 1% cash card on slots and comps, they also had various multipliers and point contests as well. Ithe hourly on that was very good and it wasn't very fun but I think it was worth about $15 to $20 an hour(perhaps $6 more per hour if you fast fed coins like a maniac, I can't remember now exactly what it was worth) with very little risk. And sometimes when you were finished and made the final spin you would connect with the $1k

  6. #446
    As predicted, I even told KJ this in a PM. He was/is heading into the everyone hates KJ zone again like we have all seen in the past.

    Robs story.

    True or not, what's the big deal? If Rob is lying, what then? OH, big deal we get to call Rob a liar for the billionth time.

    If Rob is telling the truth how will that affect your life? Will it help you sleep at night knowing Rob was telling the truth and made a bunch of money? Will you suddenly want a ride in his 2 million dollar RV? Perhaps you need a loan? Unless you are going to go out and look for machines like this and ask him for advice I can't see how this will help you. You are better off looking into the future for ways to make money, have fun, enjoy or improve your life, rather than worrying about what Rob did or didn't do. A little back and forth and a few gotcha moments are fun, but an obsession you can't turn off is not good. I doubt knowing the truth about this will help you in any way whatsoever in your life. Unless you do nothing but live for gotcha moments and you want to spend your days and nights trying to debunk Rob's claims. I don't care if God himself tells me Ron has been telling the truth about everything. I will never believe his VP Marty system works/worked.

    I don't know that I agree with MC. I don't think it be all that hard to do some research and talk to people and come up with all the mechanics and a good story to convince people they played this. Unless Rob told MC something else or I happened to miss something critical. But as I said before Rob's explanation was very fluent and believable more so than someone just winging it as they went from no experience. It never seemed as if Rob was trying to convince me he played this, it's as if he just wanted to tell his story and suggestions if I were to want to explore more looking for the machines. I already had my own ideas. However, there was one thing I had not really thought of that could happen to make it possible. I would have to do more research on that aspect to know if it is true or not.

    I would not want to make a bet on this either way, even if the truth and proof was seal in an envelope waiting to make my bet. I would have to be getting odds one side or the other and put much more thought into it.

    JK, Rob said he would take a Lie detector test. I propose that we set this up. If Rob passes you pay for the test and a bet amount, and if Rob fails, he pays for the test and he pays you some bet amount.

    I can't see any logical reason why Rob wouldn't do this since he already said he would be willing to. What say you Rob?

    And KJ, if you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is, then I suggest you move on(but do what you want). Granted I don't know how good lie detector tests are but its a start. Rob and KJ would have to agree they would be willing to accept the test as 100% accurate, and if Rob fails he couldn't call the test bunk. I would say that he should have to put up an amount into escrow that gets distributed if he insinuates the test was wrong or go on about how he played this. And the same for KJ of Rob passes KJ cant claim Rob found a way to beat it.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 05-21-2019 at 10:57 PM.

  7. #447
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    As predicted, I even told KJ this in a PM. He was/is heading into the everyone hates KJ zone again like we have all seen in the past.
    Axel, I am not the one who is changing. And I am talking about Singer's progressive betting system, not the double up claim. AS he explained it, it was mathematically impossible and still is. I told him that. You told him that. Mickey Told him that. JBJB told him that. RS_ told him that. MaxPen told him that. Shackleford told him that. Dan Druff told him that. Every AP that even understands a little math told him that.

    He repeatedly said that he didn't even play rated and it wasn't the free plays and offers that changed the play from negative expectation to positive expectation. Now with mickey's help, Singer is completely doing a 180 and I am the bad guy?

    I just want to be clear. Singer is now running with Mickey's explanation. That it was the free play and mailers that made his machine play (prior to the double-up discovery) a winning play. It had nothing to do with progression wagering or stop limits. Is that what you are now claiming Ron?

  8. #448
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    You can apply RoR to a -EV game with some predefined limit. Even recreational gamblers have to consider how much money they should take to the casino if they want to last 1 hour on their favorite slot.
    I was answering the question under the assumption that a person planned to play again after they hit their limit (for example playing 150 similar sessions as Redietz mentioned) versus never playing ever again. Unowme, the actual figure is about 61%. That is, if you are playing 8/5 Bonus Poker $1 denomination VP, betting 5 coins a spin,with a bank roll of $55,000 (and perfect discarding strategy - no "special plays"), the probability of achieving a bank roll of $57,500 is 61%. So now there is an event that has a 61% of occurring. Does anyone seriously believe that you can play Russian Roulette long enough to make almost $400000 like Ron says given this probability (39% chance of ruin before achieving the bank roll goal) ? Ok Ron is doing denominational switching, but the pull of gravity does not disappear. It would be onerous to compute this mathematically, it would be best done by simulation. Gravity wins. Anyone who doesn't believe this is delusional. Using a players club card(s) like other posters have suggested is the only way to beat the pull of gravity (on a negative EV game). Ron's financial goals may have been achieved via the Nestor/Kane bug, but certainly not playing straight up 8/5 bonus poker (with generous free play it may be profitable, but this was never stated until recently as other posters have pointed out).
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    Last edited by tableplay; 05-21-2019 at 11:01 PM.

  9. #449
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post

    I agree. I think it was the bug that was the main reason.
    I remember talking about it to a few pals when they were taking them out but we just figured what I said earlier because that information wasn't known yet.
    The other thing about double up, though, is you don't get rated on that play, so it kinda defeats the purpose if playing flat.
    However, to get even money in the Casino is always worth investigating... am I right?
    Double Up is still around... it isn't completely taken out in Vegas.
    It isn't very wide spread though.
    Yes you're right IMHO. I think there were some casinos that did count the double-up towards tier points and player's club points. IIRC, many originally did this and then got wise to it and changed the system to not count it. But for the sake of argument let's say it never counted for tier or rewards points. The casino is still exposed to greater risk since a small bet can be turned into a big profit with a lucky streak. Casino management wants to manage risk and (unlimited) 50/50 bets jeopardize risk management - making it much more difficult. They would love to have high variance on all bets, but of course no one would play if it gets too out of balance so they have to have variance at the "not too tart, not to sweet level". Anyhow, I believe they could limit the double-ups in the settings menu (I am not positive about this) and if they did, I think that I remember seeing 3 double-ups max occuring at a couple shops back then.
    Yes, there were double up machines that gave points for doubling up. but not many that I know of, and all the ones I knew of were for comps only, so, it wasn't really worth doing just for that reason. I guess, before my time there could have been more around that were giving cash back.

    The Willams Blackjack was over 100% and had let it ride(different than double up since you are playing your wins into the next hand) and they had some places with very generous comps and some with cash back. It was only really worthwhile if you played the $1 version, but they only had those in a few places. The $1 versions were mostly in Reno and Lake Tahoe, some of best comps ever for me, including mall shopping, limos anywhere and the casino paid for it all, I would use the comps to buy gold jewelry from the gift shops (good times).

    There were a few places that were giving points on the old multi-game machines when you feed in coins and banked them in the credit meter without ever having to play.

    The Stardust had a slot machines that whenever you lined up 2 blue sevens (3 blue sevens was the top jackpot for 1k) it allowed you to feed in 3 more coins for a chance to spin the 3rd reel. it counted the coins going in and gave points when you did this. You could decline the 3rd reel spin and just cash out the coins, You could just keep doing that over and over without having to make any more spins. They had a 1% cash card on slots and comps, they also had various multipliers and point contests as well. Ithe hourly on that was very good and it wasn't very fun but I think it was worth about $15 to $20 an hour(perhaps $6 more per hour if you fast fed coins like a maniac, I can't remember now exactly what it was worth) with very little risk. And sometimes when you were finished and made the final spin you would connect with the $1k
    Thanks Axel - it was less common than I remember it being. Do you happen to know if there were double-up limitations put in place at certain shops? That is you could only win a double-up up to three times for example, and then the option to double up would no longer be given. I seem to remember this being the case at certain places, but maybe I am getting this jumbled with online play, where this certainly was true in the early part of the mid-2000s.

    Cheers, TP.

  10. #450
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    As predicted, I even told KJ this in a PM. He was/is heading into the everyone hates KJ zone again like we have all seen in the past.
    Axel, I am not the one who is changing. And I am talking about Singer's progressive betting system, not the double up claim. AS he explained it, it was mathematically impossible and still is. I told him that. You told him that. Mickey Told him that. JBJB told him that. RS_ told him that. MaxPen told him that. Shackleford told him that. Dan Druff told him that. Every AP that even understands a little math told him that.

    He repeatedly said that he didn't even play rated and it wasn't the free plays and offers that changed the play from negative expectation to positive expectation. Now with mickey's help, Singer is completely doing a 180 and I am the bad guy?

    I just want to be clear. Singer is now running with Mickey's explanation. That it was the free play and mailers that made his machine play (prior to the double-up discovery) a winning play. It had nothing to do with progression wagering or stop limits. Is that what you are now claiming Ron?
    I don't know what he is claiming I don't care to go back and read it, feel free to quote the important parts. Rob told me he didn't make much on actual real AP plays. He said he played some $1 machines such as FPWD for the most part. I'm not including his system or the bug, I don't consider those things normal AP play. certainly not his system since I'm sure that's probably -EV, unless he was playing in situations where the mail and whatnot was really good, if so, I would like to point out that Rob has been downing and calling out that type of AP including other good AP stuff and not very good, profitable or viable.

  11. #451
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    certainly not his system since I'm sure that's probably -EV, unless he was playing in situations where the mail and whatnot was really good, if so, I would like to point out that Rob has been downing and calling out that type of AP including other good AP stuff and not very good, profitable or viable.
    But THAT is what this discussion is about...his so called system, not the "bug" or most recent double up claim. And you do know about these claims because he has been making them for years (even longer on other forums and platforms) and you have many times weighed in that what he is claiming could not be.

    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I would like to point out that Rob has been downing and calling out that type of AP including other good AP stuff and not very good, profitable or viable.
    EXACTLY THE POINT! The claim has now changed to this is what Rob was doing that made his so called "system" profitable, when for decades he has adamantly claimed otherwise. Now you are getting back up to speed.

  12. #452
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post

    Yes you're right IMHO. I think there were some casinos that did count the double-up towards tier points and player's club points. IIRC, many originally did this and then got wise to it and changed the system to not count it. But for the sake of argument let's say it never counted for tier or rewards points. The casino is still exposed to greater risk since a small bet can be turned into a big profit with a lucky streak. Casino management wants to manage risk and (unlimited) 50/50 bets jeopardize risk management - making it much more difficult. They would love to have high variance on all bets, but of course no one would play if it gets too out of balance so they have to have variance at the "not too tart, not to sweet level". Anyhow, I believe they could limit the double-ups in the settings menu (I am not positive about this) and if they did, I think that I remember seeing 3 double-ups max occuring at a couple shops back then.
    Yes, there were double up machines that gave points for doubling up. but not many that I know of, and all the ones I knew of were for comps only, so, it wasn't really worth doing just for that reason. I guess, before my time there could have been more around that were giving cash back.

    The Willams Blackjack was over 100% and had let it ride(different than double up since you are playing your wins into the next hand) and they had some places with very generous comps and some with cash back. It was only really worthwhile if you played the $1 version, but they only had those in a few places. The $1 versions were mostly in Reno and Lake Tahoe, some of best comps ever for me, including mall shopping, limos anywhere and the casino paid for it all, I would use the comps to buy gold jewelry from the gift shops (good times).

    There were a few places that were giving points on the old multi-game machines when you feed in coins and banked them in the credit meter without ever having to play.

    The Stardust had a slot machines that whenever you lined up 2 blue sevens (3 blue sevens was the top jackpot for 1k) it allowed you to feed in 3 more coins for a chance to spin the 3rd reel. it counted the coins going in and gave points when you did this. You could decline the 3rd reel spin and just cash out the coins, You could just keep doing that over and over without having to make any more spins. They had a 1% cash card on slots and comps, they also had various multipliers and point contests as well. Ithe hourly on that was very good and it wasn't very fun but I think it was worth about $15 to $20 an hour(perhaps $6 more per hour if you fast fed coins like a maniac, I can't remember now exactly what it was worth) with very little risk. And sometimes when you were finished and made the final spin you would connect with the $1k
    Thanks Axel - it was less common than I remember it being. Do you happen to know if there were double-up limitations put in place at certain shops? That is you could only win a double-up up to three times for example, and then the option to double up would no longer be given. I seem to remember this being the case at certain places, but maybe I am getting this jumbled with online play, where this certainly was true in the early part of the mid-2000s.

    Cheers, TP.
    Yes, some places set limits on the number of double up's, more so nowadays. In the past, I don't think I ran into this very much. TBH I can't recall any from the early 2000s and prior that had limited the double ups set to less than 5, and only a few time I saw 5 max. I do recall some stopped once you got to a hand-pay. But most of the ones I played in the past seemed unlimited, but I obviously I never got an unlimited double up win. I have doubled up $5 wins into over $1200 many times. And doubled up $1200 double up wins as well.

    On the computer, I doubled up stuff to some fantastic amounts to where I was like OH fuck, that's almost some 18 yo's in a row BS right there, I must be due to get hit by a bus and lightning at the same time, but instead I meet some hot chick.

    Online many places are set to one time and you can only double up if your winning amount is over the bet amount.

    Also, in the past, there were card readers that seemed to give you points on coin out(very few had this and not for long). Obviously, a double up win would work for that. I would have to think if that would help you in any way since you won't get points along the way.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 05-21-2019 at 11:29 PM.

  13. #453
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Mickey, you know everything I just stated is true. This explanation of yours that it was the free play that made the difference is just false. The story is changing just as Rob always does and you seem now to be grasping at straws trying to legitimize the preposterous claims of your new friend.
    This one really takes the cake. In his obsession with discrediting Rob's story KJ has thrown all credibility out the door. He has once again twisted my words into something they didn't mean.

    Redietz, would you like to tell me you don't see KJ's lies and misrepresentations in this thread? Are you sure that you want to continue to align yourself with a pathological liar?
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  14. #454
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    certainly not his system since I'm sure that's probably -EV, unless he was playing in situations where the mail and whatnot was really good, if so, I would like to point out that Rob has been downing and calling out that type of AP including other good AP stuff and not very good, profitable or viable.
    But THAT is what this discussion is about...his so called system, not the "bug" or most recent double up claim. And you do know about these claims because he has been making them for years (even longer on other forums and platforms) and you have many times weighed in that what he is claiming could not be.

    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I would like to point out that Rob has been downing and calling out that type of AP including other good AP stuff and not very good, profitable or viable.
    EXACTLY THE POINT! The claim has now changed to this is what Rob was doing that made his so called "system" profitable, when for decades he has adamantly claimed otherwise. Now you are getting back up to speed.
    Thinking back a little bit I think Rob did say he would use free play and comps he got from his system playing. However, he made it a point to claim that was not where the real money was at, and that his system was the only reason he was making the money and that all came from the machines not from promotions or slot clubs. As to why playing for any predetermined time, point goals, just because you had an edge, or anything other than win/loss goals using his system was foolish and stupid.

  15. #455
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    You two dummies deserve each other. I always used a card when I played my strategy. The years I stated that I mostly did not use a card were the years I played the DU glitch....which was the same time period I was telling everybody I was still playing my strategy. Of course, redietz couldn't figure that out, and kew would never want to.

    You idiots just can't stop getting caught in your own traps. Enjoy trying to wiggle out.
    Ron, if that is the case, it is another case of your story and claim changing. I mean my arguments and challenges are based on what YOU said. And based on what YOU said, the math to this claim didn't add up. If you now are changing your story and claim to include that the thing that made this play +EV was the free plays and offers, that is not on me, that is on you. I argued and challenged what YOU said. It is not my job to try to figure out what you are or aren't lying about or what your story/claim may change to next. This is on YOU!

    I asked probably 50, maybe 100 times just what it was that would make a -EV play into a longterm winner and you never, ever said the free play. You always maintained that it was not. Had you said it was the free play, I would have understood that and not challenged you because that is what I and my partner were doing on a smaller scale.

    All this lying and dishonesty is on you not me. And that is exactly what I am talking about with credibility.
    Rob has never said that freeplay made the difference on the play. A post or two back he only said he played with a card. KJ has twisted that into Rob now saying the freeplay was the difference. Just another pathological lie from the village idiot.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  16. #456
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I've never seen so many gullible people in my life.
    ....

  17. #457
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    EXACTLY THE POINT! The claim has now changed to this is what Rob was doing that made his so called "system" profitable, when for decades he has adamantly claimed otherwise. Now you are getting back up to speed.
    Rob has never claimed that freeplay is what made his system profitable. Not today, not yesterday, not 10 years ago. Just another pathological lie from KJ the village idiot.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  18. #458
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I've never seen so many gullible people in my life.
    ....
    You should help KJ and Redietz hunt down the person/persons that gave Rob the true sequence. It will put a big feather in all of your hats and put mud on my face and others. Like I said, if Rob could find that person/persons then you guys can to. Good luck with it.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  19. #459
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    As predicted, I even told KJ this in a PM. He was/is heading into the everyone hates KJ zone again like we have all seen in the past.
    Axel, I am not the one who is changing.
    I agree, you have ALWAYS been this way. It just takes a little disagreement with you,or not seeing it KJ's way, or anything directed towards or about you, or the wind blowing in the wrong direction... for you to go full on KJtard.

  20. #460
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I just want to be clear. Singer is now running with Mickey's explanation. That it was the free play and mailers that made his machine play (prior to the double-up discovery) a winning play. It had nothing to do with progression wagering or stop limits. Is that what you are now claiming Ron?
    I just want to be clear. Again, all Singer has said is that he used a card with the system. KJ has turned that into "Singer is now running with Mickey's explanation. That it was the freeplay and mailers that made his machine play a winning play." Just another routine pathological lie by KJ.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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