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Thread: Advantage play / cheating / crime....where is the line?

  1. #921
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Mickey, you defended me because I was right. And I respect that you find Rob credible. I really do. As a matter of fact I think my very first statement on the matter was something along the line that because you and Axelwolf found Rob credible that I accepted his claim.

    But the more he has said, the more some things don't add up for me. So despite that I continue to have great respect for both you and Axel, does that mean I don't get an opinion as to whether I find Rob credible or not? Me and everyone else have that right too and it isn't a slap or disrespect towards you.
    PLEASE REREAD MY POSTS CAREFULLY REGARDING THIS MATTER. DON'T GO SAYING THINGS THAT ARE NOT WHAT I SAID.


    I think everyone should put up or shut up. How much are you willing to Put up KJ? Is Rob willing to take a polygraph test? if so, THE people who think it's a lie can pay for the test if he passes, if he fails it, he pays. He should require people to make a wager regarding the outcome.

    I think Rob should be able to provide some records if he wanted to. Bank records should be available since we are talking Millions of dollars, at some point the money was spent, deposited, or the money is still in his floor safe. I know the IRS can go back significantly longer than people generally think, 20 or 30 years depending on the situation. Rob could ask the IRS and banks for the information if he wanted to. There must at least be paperwork and transaction reports on the RV. There could be an independent auditor hired to do the Job and reveal the results.

    There would really be no reason to do so, unless there was a nice wager on the line. If no one is willing to do this including Rob then everyone should just move on.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 06-22-2019 at 02:22 AM.

  2. #922
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I think everyone should put up or shut up. How much are you willing to Put up KJ? Is Rob willing to take a polygraph test? if so, THE people who think it's a lie can pay for the test if he passes, if he fails it, he pays. He should require people to make a wager regarding the outcome.
    For the record AxelWolf, passing a polygraph test doesn’t prove anything. People who have no moral compass or lie routinely pass them all the time. There is a reason our courts don’t allow polygraph tests as proof of anything.

  3. #923
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I think everyone should put up or shut up. How much are you willing to Put up KJ? Is Rob willing to take a polygraph test? if so, THE people who think it's a lie can pay for the test if he passes, if he fails it, he pays. He should require people to make a wager regarding the outcome.
    For the record AxelWolf, passing a polygraph test doesn’t prove anything. People who have no moral compass or lie routinely pass them all the time. There is a reason our courts don’t allow polygraph tests as proof of anything.

  4. #924
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I think everyone should put up or shut up. How much are you willing to Put up KJ? Is Rob willing to take a polygraph test? if so, THE people who think it's a lie can pay for the test if he passes, if he fails it, he pays. He should require people to make a wager regarding the outcome.
    For the record AxelWolf, passing a polygraph test doesn’t prove anything. People who have no moral compass or lie routinely pass them all the time. There is a reason our courts don’t allow polygraph tests as proof of anything.

    It's interesting you guys mention this, for a number of reasons. First, "Singer" has said on multiple occasions that he has been trained to pass polygraph tests. Second, what Bob21 says is partly correct and partly incorrect. Courts don't allow polygraphs primarily due to the overabundance of false positives, not false negatives. People test as having lied when they have not much more often than they test as being truthful when actually lying. Third, if you check my old website on the wayback machine, I offered to take a polygraph for all potential clients regarding anything I claimed. This was back in the 80's and early 90's. And fourth, when good old Rob was on some kick that I wasn't me, I offered to take a polygraph with the same rules Axel mentioned -- if I pass, the other dude pays. If I fail, I pay.

    Also, I had an interesting experience with a friend who had been in the military stationed overseas. He was a business logistics Penn State grad. When a pharmaceutical firm interviewed him, they asked him questions about drug use. Well, he had used this and that, but only in legal environments in other countries. So the firm, which wanted to hire him, wound up torturously phrasing questions like, "Other than when visiting the Netherlands when in the army, did you ever use marijuana?" It was a mess. The machine can't help much with two and three part questions with subordinate clauses. Anyway, he was hired.

  5. #925
    For it to fit his narrative KJ will "believe" Rob was trained to pass lie detector tests. But nothing else in this story unless it hurts Rob's case.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  6. #926
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    ]

    You aren't giving it any weight at all. It has to be a coincidence to you because that is what supports your pre-drawn narrative.
    This is wrong Mickey. YOU are the one with a pre-drawn narrative. You have your reasons for believing Singer based on things he said, I presume. Unless he revealed something to you privately that he and you haven't revealed to the rest of us, I don't see anything that backs up his claim. Or maybe one or two small co-incidenses such as he announced his retirement in 2009?

    BUT you have ignored inconsistencies that have raised questions for not just myself but many, even since this claim, sticking with that pre-drawn narrative even in the face of new questions.

    I am not going to post quotes from your PM's but I would encourage you to go back and re-read your very first Pm and several other early PM after I joined the site, where you were explaining to me what a liar and manipulator Rob Singer (who I was not familiar with) is and how he never shows proof while demanding from others, never backs down from his lies. and is never to be trusted.

    Seems like Rob deciding to make nice with you, has made you forget who you thought Rob is/was. Rob is a great manipulator. And that buttering up act that he did publicly with both you and Axel just prior to this claim going public was the ultimate Singer manipulation play. Rob needs supporters, enablers, for his claims to have any traction. Alan played that role for a long time.

    I am not going to keep going back and forth. You are free to believe whatever you like. At the risk of seeing you fly off the handle, I think you are being played Mickey and someday you will look back and acknowledge that. If Singer had this greatest of claims, greatest of AP plays that he had been sitting on, and he KNEW there would be skeptics, as he claims, he would have preserved and provided some supporting documentation. BUT he didn't, just as the 'old mickey' told me privately from day one. He provided no proof and as a matter of fact he claims he destroyed or got rid of the proof. How odd? Do you not find that odd Mick?

  7. #927
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Mickey, you defended me because I was right. And I respect that you find Rob credible. I really do. As a matter of fact I think my very first statement on the matter was something along the line that because you and Axelwolf found Rob credible that I accepted his claim.

    But the more he has said, the more some things don't add up for me. So despite that I continue to have great respect for both you and Axel, does that mean I don't get an opinion as to whether I find Rob credible or not? Me and everyone else have that right too and it isn't a slap or disrespect towards you.
    PLEASE REREAD MY POSTS CAREFULLY REGARDING THIS MATTER. DON'T GO SAYING THINGS THAT ARE NOT WHAT I SAID.


    I think everyone should put up or shut up. How much are you willing to Put up KJ? Is Rob willing to take a polygraph test? if so, THE people who think it's a lie can pay for the test if he passes, if he fails it, he pays. He should require people to make a wager regarding the outcome.

    I think Rob should be able to provide some records if he wanted to. Bank records should be available since we are talking Millions of dollars, at some point the money was spent, deposited, or the money is still in his floor safe. I know the IRS can go back significantly longer than people generally think, 20 or 30 years depending on the situation. Rob could ask the IRS and banks for the information if he wanted to. There must at least be paperwork and transaction reports on the RV. There could be an independent auditor hired to do the Job and reveal the results.

    There would really be no reason to do so, unless there was a nice wager on the line. If no one is willing to do this including Rob then everyone should just move on.
    I am not going to make some 6 figure wager because I don't care that much. whether this claim is or isn't true doesn't effect my life. And more importantly, I see no way that I can be proven right or proven wrong. Singer claims he got rid of all supporting documentation. Is it now going to suddenly appear?

    I would be willing to make a small wager five figures because I trust my gut that this is just another Singer hoax....THAT much! That would sort of be an advantage wager in my mind. But as just mentioned, I see no way to prove or disprove to satisfaction in either way. Showing proof of large ticket items purchased doesn't do it, because according to Singer these things are in childrens name (most likely because the children bought them, themselves. lol). I also am not disputing that Singer had a high paying carreer, along with his wife and may have accumulated some wealth. So the purchase of some "things" proves nothing.

    Axel, since you claim I keep mis-characterizing your view, could you clarify and share with us what your current position is in this matter. Based on everything said both before (his many false claims) and after this claim....Do you believe Rob played the double up glitch for 6 years, making 3 million dollars? Have things said since raised red flags for yoy? do you see any inconsistencies in his story/claim?

    I ask you people to keep in mind Rob's history. The many many proven untrue claims, including the 200k jackpot just weeks before as well as the Singer video poker system. These are NOT separate issues because they show a pattern. Hell he has doubled down on that mathematically impossible VP strategy claim SINCE. lol This whole thing is simply another Singer hoax.

    I will be away from computer for a couple days. One of my travel companions has had such a sheltered life he has never even seen an ocean. Now that the sun has shown on the east coast I intend to change that with a weekend in Wildwood.

  8. #928
    Has this episode changed anyone's lives? Is it useful anymore? For the record, I comb the internet and also keep my eyes open for ANYTHING- just as Rob claims- that will better my results. After trial and error I either discard or modify to suit my needs. As for credibility- I would keep whatever to myself. Why? Well- what happened when the glitch occurred and loose lips got back to the casinos?

  9. #929
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    What’s Rob’s recent health situation or whatever?
    I think he had surgery to have Mickey`s lips removed from his butt

  10. #930
    I'm no longer woozy from the foot surgery. I guess it came out well because that's what they tell me. I broke it in 1998 in Vienna jumping off the bed as I was celebrating a goal in an NHL playoff broadcast game. I forgot there was a coffee cup lying on its side on the floor and I landed on it. I heard something crack and I thought it was the mug. It wasn't. Now I pay.

    Axel I've checked on the phones, online,and via my daughter's ex at the IRS and there is no way to get records that old. They destroy records after 7 years except when there's ongoing fraud investigations or large corporation years-long audits.

    There are records of major purchases but that wouldn't serve as proof of this play. We could have bought these things anyway and I think kew already eliminated that route. The cash that remains isn't much.

    As for the lie detector test I already offered that, but it is also true I have training (albeit, in the mid-'70's) on how to render the results non-conclusive. It's not how they depict these things on TV either.

    Why don't we just use kew as our lie-detector....he seems to know EVERYTHING. just like a teenager!

    Kew, the $200,000 jackpot was not a hoax as I've already explained. I embellished slightly. It was not mine, but I made a nice upper-70's K profit on the play because I went in $20k apiece with a friend. He took home just under $120k which was our deal because he got the signer. He was playing it and I watched. So where's the hoax? I also won $375k playing my SPS over four years. Where's the hoax?

    Do you dream of me even on vacation?

  11. #931
    Looing forward to Columbo Crimm and old man Singer giving us some current plays we can make money with.
    The past is over

  12. #932
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    My history with Rob goes back further than anyone here, back to about 2005 or 6. Only Arci goes back further than that. I was the one that brought up the fact here on VCT that Rob announced his retirement from professional play in 2009. No one else here knew that or at least the time frame, except Rob. But for some reason he hadn't mentioned it. But more specifically I remember it was in mid 2009 and Rob said he had hit his win quota early that year so was retiring and would no longer be filing Schedule C as a professional gambler after 2009.

    John Kane got busted at the Silverton in July, 2009. That was mid 2009. The same time Rob announced his retirement. This is just a huge coincidence, right?
    Kane got busted in 2009, but I don't believe that is when the story really broke, is it? I mean the story most often referenced is dated 2013, I believe.

    I am not going to say it was a coincidence. But lets do some math. Rob just turned 70 last month. So in 2009, he would have just turned 60 and his wife was on the verge of retiring (according to Rob), so that may have just been a point that his life was changing from having a lot of time by himself, "gambling" to spending more time with his wife and their combined retirement of traveling what not.

    There are just numerous possibilities about some of these things and things you seem to think carry more weight for you, just don't for some of the rest of us.

    Will you at least agree Mickey that Rob could easily avoided all this, by offering just a little bit of supporting documentation of which he says he has discarded. He says "he knew there would be skeptics", but yet, intentionally discarded the prove that would have ended any and all speculation. Does that make sense to you mickey?
    There you go again kew, making up story after story because you're so nervous over this.

    Kane got busted in 2009. I've said numerous times that the Silverton HL room is where I first heard about it,and that's where I saw the IGT "worldwide memo". It's also when I walked away from the play for good. Someone like mickey has seen me post this--why don't you ever see these facts?

    Next debunk: My wife had no intentions of retiring when I was 60. In fact, she worked until the end of 2011, and even if I had quit at 60 she was planning on working until she was 65. If I were really playing my strategy the last 6 years I wouldn't have minded retiring from that at 60. That feeling, however, disappeared when this play was humming along. And because I was making so much vp money my wife retired 6 years early.

    Next debunk: There was no reason for me to have cared about saving "documentation" on this (whatever that would be--you couldn't name it or it's precise value here anyway) because that's not something you worry about when playing in a situation such as that. I knew the play had to end sometime but I played on as if it wouldn't. I also never cared about or expected to release this information at any time. Count yourself lucky that I did it during your lifetime.

    Why don't you put as much effort into having sympathy for my pain and suffering over this foot issue? I had a smaller operation on it 2 years ago, then I destroyed it when I jumped off the ladder on my RV outside of Flagstaff, which is why I had to call axel instead of meeting him.
    Last edited by Rob.Singer; 06-22-2019 at 11:41 AM.

  13. #933
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    As for the lie detector test I already offered that, but it is also true I have training (albeit, in the mid-'70's) on how to render the results non-conclusive. It's not how they depict these things on TV either.
    Please enlighten on beating the lie detector. Have you ever used it? Sounds like a Singer Advantage Play. You ought to write a book. I'm sure they'll turn it into a movie. You could call it "How to beat the Odds".

  14. #934
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    As for the lie detector test I already offered that, but it is also true I have training (albeit, in the mid-'70's) on how to render the results non-conclusive. It's not how they depict these things on TV either.
    Please enlighten on beating the lie detector. Have you ever used it? Sounds like a Singer Advantage Play. You ought to write a book. I'm sure they'll turn it into a movie. You could call it "How to beat the Odds".
    You don't "beat" it you confuse it. You go in with fairly sharp rocks in your shoes and squeeze them between your toes. You alternate feet every 3rd question. You first throw it off by rendering confusion on a simple set-up question. That was then. Now it may be different due to technology, and I'm sure the countermeasures are also different.

  15. #935
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    As for the lie detector test I already offered that, but it is also true I have training (albeit, in the mid-'70's) on how to render the results non-conclusive. It's not how they depict these things on TV either.
    Please enlighten on beating the lie detector. Have you ever used it? Sounds like a Singer Advantage Play. You ought to write a book. I'm sure they'll turn it into a movie. You could call it "How to beat the Odds".
    I saw a true crime show based on archival footage where a teenaged murderer passed a lie detector using a technique he found on the internet. They explained the technique and though I doubt it works in every case it's very simple.

    Going to hold off saying what it is if people want to discuss the issue first.

  16. #936
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    As for the lie detector test I already offered that, but it is also true I have training (albeit, in the mid-'70's) on how to render the results non-conclusive. It's not how they depict these things on TV either.
    Please enlighten on beating the lie detector. Have you ever used it? Sounds like a Singer Advantage Play. You ought to write a book. I'm sure they'll turn it into a movie. You could call it "How to beat the Odds".
    You don't "beat" it you confuse it. You go in with fairly sharp rocks in your shoes and squeeze them between your toes. You alternate feet every 3rd question. You first throw it off by rendering confusion on a simple set-up question. That was then. Now it may be different due to technology, and I'm sure the countermeasures are also different.
    I hadn't read this because I have Rob blocked (sorry Rob). I just click on his posts to read them when based on their timing I think they will be interesting.

    The technique I am familiar with is the same basic idea but more elegant.

    The way lie detectors work is they take a baseline reading of various vital signs, e.g. heart rate and blood pressure. The baseline is what your vitals are when you're answering innocuous questions like what year it is or who is the President.

    They then move into the heavy questions like "did you kill X" and look for a change in your vitals signifying distress.

    Most people lying about something serious while hooked up to a lie detector can't help feeling distress. So the trick is to agitate your vital signs as much as possible during the baseline reading and then during the serious questions to minimize the effect of the distress caused by fear of being caught lying.

    The technique for doing this: strain your sphincter as hard as possible. That means using the muscles you would use to defecate as hard as you can and holding them that way throughout both the baseline and the real questions.

    That straining apparently raises your blood pressure and whatever else they measure in way that is consistent and overpowers whatever deviations are caused by stress.

  17. #937
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Please enlighten on beating the lie detector. .
    You don't "beat" it you confuse it. You go in with fairly sharp rocks in your shoes and squeeze them between your toes. .
    The technique for doing this: strain your sphincter as hard as possible.
    Well then. If I ever have to beat a lie detector I'll just put rocks in my sphincter and have all the bases covered.

  18. #938
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    You don't "beat" it you confuse it. You go in with fairly sharp rocks in your shoes and squeeze them between your toes. .
    The technique for doing this: strain your sphincter as hard as possible.
    Well then. If I ever have to beat a lie detector I'll just put rocks in my sphincter and have all the bases covered.
    Nh.

  19. #939
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    What’s Rob’s recent health situation or whatever?
    I think he had surgery to have Mickey`s lips removed from his butt
    KJ tells me you suck a mean dick.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #940
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    ]

    You aren't giving it any weight at all. It has to be a coincidence to you because that is what supports your pre-drawn narrative.
    This is wrong Mickey. YOU are the one with a pre-drawn narrative. You have your reasons for believing Singer based on things he said, I presume. Unless he revealed something to you privately that he and you haven't revealed to the rest of us, I don't see anything that backs up his claim. Or maybe one or two small co-incidenses such as he announced his retirement in 2009?

    BUT you have ignored inconsistencies that have raised questions for not just myself but many, even since this claim, sticking with that pre-drawn narrative even in the face of new questions.

    I am not going to post quotes from your PM's but I would encourage you to go back and re-read your very first Pm and several other early PM after I joined the site, where you were explaining to me what a liar and manipulator Rob Singer (who I was not familiar with) is and how he never shows proof while demanding from others, never backs down from his lies. and is never to be trusted.

    Seems like Rob deciding to make nice with you, has made you forget who you thought Rob is/was. Rob is a great manipulator. And that buttering up act that he did publicly with both you and Axel just prior to this claim going public was the ultimate Singer manipulation play. Rob needs supporters, enablers, for his claims to have any traction. Alan played that role for a long time.

    I am not going to keep going back and forth. You are free to believe whatever you like. At the risk of seeing you fly off the handle, I think you are being played Mickey and someday you will look back and acknowledge that. If Singer had this greatest of claims, greatest of AP plays that he had been sitting on, and he KNEW there would be skeptics, as he claims, he would have preserved and provided some supporting documentation. BUT he didn't, just as the 'old mickey' told me privately from day one. He provided no proof and as a matter of fact he claims he destroyed or got rid of the proof. How odd? Do you not find that odd Mick?
    The only thing I find odd is your inability to forget the bullshit and move on. Even if Rob produced W2-G's, which you have requested, you would just say so what, it doesn't prove anything. Rob has a pretty tight story. His detailed strategy on the glitch is now up on Alan's website. I can't find another strategy for it published anywhere on the internet, except for the false strategy published in Wired. So Rob is the only person to publicly display a detailed strategy for the game king bug. All you have to do is find the people that taught Rob the strategy. I put up a reward for anyone to come forward and convincingly show they were in contact Rob and taught him the strategy. At least I am doing something. You aren't doing anything to find these people just running your mouth with generalizations of why it can't be true.

    Alan brought up the point that Rob's strategy has not been proven. So that's another area for you to look into to continue your story of non-belief. Or for anyone else to come forward and say it's not the correct strategy.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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