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Thread: Advantage play / cheating / crime....where is the line?

  1. #861
    Kew wrote:
    "Going by memory, It seems like at least one, maybe 2 indicated that authorities suspected one or maybe both of two programmers played an intentional role in this. I believe both were let go but neither charged with anything."

    The real truth in crime, events, and schemes is always very difficult to uncover completely. Thats just the way it is. Memories can become selective in the retelling for any number of reasons. I think Kew is on to something. This is how I felt from the first reading of the Kane story. Kane didn't quite reveal all the details of the origin of the play.

    I suspect strongly neither did Rob.

  2. #862
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    The hardest part of the story to understand is how little money Rob won. Over 5 years you could win $3 million working a few days a month at .25 - $1 machines only hitting taxables on royals and not wearing a welcome out anywhere.
    If nothing else Singer is lazy AF.
    BoSox:

    Frankly, everything that Rob Singer says is hard to believe and I think it is all a lie. How little money Rob claimed to have won over a five-year span is not the hardest part of the story for me to believe. The real hard part for me to believe is Rob stating in a former quote that he has a real sense of morals.


    Rob Singer wrote in post #764:


    BTW, when I came out with this it was also my time to act like I am in real life here. No more nonsense, trolling, embellishing, insulting or anything that I wouldn't do at home. There was lots of pressure on me over the years because of what I did and how I chose to act in order to keep my mind busy with "entertainment", I knew I could handle it, and I knew there'd be a few people who would never forgive or forget, because they're not like mickey and can't distinguish between the important things and the irrelevant stuff.

    So how I handled this is the overall best scenario I could think of. People who can rationalize while being able to separate the bs from everything else understand this. Others let their hatred do their talking. I was prepared for both.


    BoSox:

    This part of a line from Rob's above quote needs repeating:

    " There was lots of pressure on me over the years because of what I did and how I chose to act in order to keep my mind busy with "entertainment",


    The key avove line by Rob is a sure giveaway. Good lord this man has never had any morals, or conscience for that matter. He is full of shit. I don't believe a word of it.
    Sorry I need to further clairfy my opinion on this topic:


    Rob S wrote in post#338 on page17:


    --Name someone else that has acted as wildly insulting as me over the last 15 years on forums, and has come up with more outrageous anomalies (non-random machines/5th card flipover/AP being a "state of mind" etc.)! It was all meant as a means of diversion for ME, because nobody but me knows what it was like having gone thru the play for those years, then having to wait TEN years in order to let it all out. Yes kew it was misleading and I'm the one that had to deal with that the most. I also took no pleasure in all the things I said about arci. It was simply a means to a safe end. Part of the "protect myself and my family first" act. Just like everything I've done.

    Now it's finally over. If any of you knew me, you'd know I'm just a regular guy who came across the find of a vp lifetime, and because I took it seriously, it lasted as long as it could. I am very very happy it wasn't me who ended the play.



    The two key lines in Rob's above quoted posts are:


    Name someone else that has acted as wildly insulting as me over the last 15 years on forums, and has come up with more outrageous anomalies (non-random machines/5th card flipover/AP being a "state of mind" etc.)! It was all meant as a means of diversion for ME,

    " There was lots of pressure on me over the years because of what I did and how I chose to act in order to keep my mind busy with "entertainment",


    Can anyone see that all of what Rob Singer is now doing is nothing different than than what he has done for years. Creating diversions for his own entertainment purposes. Who the fuck cares that these diversions hurt real people in the process that served Rob's purpose? Now he is disguising his real self again by entertaining himself by pretending to be a normal human being all along, and he only acted crazy for his own good. Well I believe he is putting on one hell of a show right now REGARDLESS if the game king play was true or not. Either way I believe he is just one insecure man who is begging for any kind of recognition.
    Last edited by BoSox; 06-20-2019 at 08:39 AM.

  3. #863
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I mean, who puts a bill in during the middle of a hand and before you get your credits paid? Only a drunk.
    You claim to have found it. Are you calling yourself a drunk? (that is a joke)

    But on a serious note, I believe I read 5 different accounts of the Nestor/kain play. 5 different articles. Beside the one commonly referenced, I came across 2 more just looking on the internet and then Mission146 linked to 2 more. Going by memory, It seems like at least one, maybe 2 indicated that authorities suspected one or maybe both of two programmers played an intentional role in this. I believe both were let go but neither charged with anything. You can be sure authorities looked at not only their financial records but probably relatives looking for unexplained windfalls and I guess found nothing.

    But that doesn't mean there wasn't some accomplice. I don't think Nestor/kain, I am sure that was checked thoroughly for any connection. But IF (please note the if) one or both of these guys programmed this intentionally, you can be sure there was a reason. Authorities just didn't find it or the connection.

    So I would think that someone else stumbling on to this would NOT think they are the only one to know about this and would assume one way or another this would come to an end. Isn't there a saying "all good things come to an end" or something along those lines.
    I didn't "stumble" upon this.

    If you read one of my earliest posts, I said it was highly possible the bug was programmed in purposely, because all software engineers who write code like to leave their mark in one way or another. And most of them are geeky enough not to extract benefit from their own coding. Plus in this case it would have been illegal.

    If intentional, there was only one programmer involved. SW engineers never program in teams. They are experts at hiding dead coding. Imagine the chaos if that programmer told someone else about his "secret code" and said "please don't tell anybody"! It would take 30 seconds before every VP player that guy knew had it blabbed to them.

    The #1 problem in this world is people's mouths.
    Last edited by Rob.Singer; 06-20-2019 at 10:54 AM.

  4. #864
    Not a programmer but I find it believable that the bug was unintentional. It's possible that the only mistake in the code is not turning off the bill acceptor while the "DU?" routine is initiated.

    It feels like a "natural" bug, for lack of a better term. The original Wired article made it sound like the bug was triggered by an arbitrary series of inputs which looks a lot more suspicious.

  5. #865
    MIckeycrimm brought up Rob as :
    "Three separate issues:
    1. Rob and game king bug.
    2. Rob’s internet trolling.
    3. Rob’s vp system."

    Aside and distinct from Robs's vp system (which in truth was always out of reach to the common Joe, meant to be a guide to draw from.) Here's a 4th: Rob Singer has always been the alternative voice to the Dancer, Shackleford teachings. That is his most important contribution to vp.

    A voice based not in theory and text books but in reality and the real world.
    Flat bet, max coin are words that will most likely lead to your ruin. That's Dancer's world.

    Rob and the game king bug seems to be kind of a Ripley's Believe it or Not. Stalemate between those who can see it and those who can't.

    The internet trolling is meaningless.

  6. #866
    "The internet trolling is meaningless."

    Not if it has consequences. And it does. And it will.

  7. #867
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    This bit of information about the bill feeder being the key because it allowed one to change denomination is another piece of information that adds to Rob's credibility. I had no idea why the bill feeder was key until Rob explained it here. I dont' think that bit of information was published anywhere or I would have recalled reading it.
    FYI, I knew this information before Rob had said anything, so it wasn't a complete secret. If you go back, you can see I mention something about this before however I may have disguised the exact thing I was talking about. I have been told by someone in the know that this information was public, but they were not 100% sure, they were just very sure.
    "Cant say for sure but I'm sure." LOL! Track these people down and have them post something here.
    I dont think it really matters if it was in public print or not. The information was not very hard to obtain. I have had that information for a long while now, it's not some super big secret. I asked someone in the know how rare this information was they said it's, somewhat well known. They thought it had even been written about somewhere online, but they were not 100% sure. They may very well have had it mixed up with something only certain people had assess to and it all got jumbled up with what was publicly written about. They dont give a shit if Rob played it or not since they are not out to prove anything, so the facts about this aspect are very significant to them. I haven't found this information online, but I havent really looked that hard either. I can only assume KJ and others have been frantically searching for this information, so I will concede to the fact that it was publicly written about. But again, I don't think it's a clincher for proving anything either way.

  8. #868
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    "The internet trolling is meaningless."

    Not if it has consequences. And it does. And it will.
    Better hurry up. I'm 70 years old, tomorrow's operation has a 6-10 week healing timeframe....and the gun grease is growing mold.

  9. #869
    Let me see if I got this straight. The critics want it to be that I never put down this play, and for some reason even though I never made a penny playing it, I waited ten whole years after retiring from playing "professionally" to come up with the whole thing. Again, even though I could have brought it forward anytime in the last ten years since I was never capable of being held liable for anything at any time.

    Spin forward to just before my request to tell axel about it. I don't know who knew anything about the double up play or how, but I guess I'm supposed to have found the entire play and it's exact sequence somewhere online that only kew knows where it is but he doesn't want to tell anybody where.

    Too much credit is being given to this guy Kane. He's nothing but a degenerate gambler who drank too much and in one of his stupors he accidentally experiences this play. And apparently, he couldn't even figure it out even after the Fremont casino turned the double up option off on his $.01 thru 50c machine. It took an even bigger degenerate slug named Nestor to turn the lights on for him. Oh, plus....they both got caught because they had no discipline to devise a good plan. And Kane is the biggest fool because he just couldn't keep the play to himself. He just HAD to get praise from his "friend" for finding it.

    BoSox doesn't like it, but I did this thing right. And yes, that makes me #1 when it comes to video poker in my book.

  10. #870
    All I care about is the present, Rob. Did you play the artt and single play strategies during this time and do you still stand by hot/cold cycles- win goals- short term strategy? That's where my world is.

  11. #871
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    All I care about is the present, Rob. Did you play the artt and single play strategies during this time and do you still stand by hot/cold cycles- win goals- short term strategy? That's where my world is.
    He'll tell you anything you want to here because you continue to believe his make believe gambling life. Wise up!!

    Seriously, stop being a sucker.

  12. #872
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    All I care about is the present, Rob. Did you play the artt and single play strategies during this time and do you still stand by hot/cold cycles- win goals- short term strategy? That's where my world is.
    I did not play any strategies during that time. All I cared about was hitting quads or better. I have played ARTT almost exclusively since the play ended.

    Of course I stand by using win goals and the concept of short term strategy. Short term is how everyone really plays. Hot/cold cycles are inherent in every machine, but they are not "programmed in".

    I also believe in and stand firmly by the fact that players never should use a casino ATM, hosts are only for weak players, playing for card status is a big amateur mistake, obtaining casino credit or check cashing privileges is not something strong players do, and JoB is a losing player's favorite game.

  13. #873
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    All I care about is the present, Rob. Did you play the artt and single play strategies during this time and do you still stand by hot/cold cycles- win goals- short term strategy? That's where my world is.
    Slingshot, God bless ya. You have a child's innocence to your questions.

  14. #874
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    All I care about is the present, Rob. Did you play the artt and single play strategies during this time and do you still stand by hot/cold cycles- win goals- short term strategy? That's where my world is.
    He'll tell you anything you want to here because you continue to believe his make believe gambling life. Wise up!!

    Seriously, stop being a sucker.
    Hey jbjb--were you a regular reader of Gaming Today from 2001-2008? Did you see all the big jackpots I wrote about, posted about, and handed my W2G's over to the Publisher so they could verify them to all the irate callers? Was GT "making all that up"?.....or, were you too young to read back then....

  15. #875
    Originally Posted by pahrump pete View Post
    MIckeycrimm brought up Rob as :
    "Three separate issues:
    1. Rob and game king bug.
    2. Rob’s internet trolling.
    3. Rob’s vp system."

    Aside and distinct from Robs's vp system (which in truth was always out of reach to the common Joe, meant to be a guide to draw from.) Here's a 4th: Rob Singer has always been the alternative voice to the Dancer, Shackleford teachings. That is his most important contribution to vp.

    A voice based not in theory and text books but in reality and the real world.
    Flat bet, max coin are words that will most likely lead to your ruin. That's Dancer's world.

    Rob and the game king bug seems to be kind of a Ripley's Believe it or Not. Stalemate between those who can see it and those who can't.

    The internet trolling is meaningless.
    AND THAT'S JUST FUCKING TOTALLY STUPID. His system and teachings go against math and logic and experience from hundreds of advantage players. Putting that garbage out in the public is a horrible dis justice to gamblers worldwide. It's no different than somome touting a bac or roullet system using voodoo BS that doesn't work. If anything that should be a bad stain on Robs legacy. There have been promotions that have been a gold min where Rob basically said they were bunk and AP's were dumb for playing them. Hell im not a fan of Dancer and how he educates the public and casinos, BUT the methods he uses and teaches, the stuff he has done, and his books are very accurate and more than helpful to gamblers looking to gain an advantage at gambling, and the same goes for Mike. And you damn well better believe Bob Dancer has and is out in the real world gambling way more than anyone else on this forum, Almost everything Rob has said regarding AP in the past has been absolutely bunk and damaging to anyone following him. I would venture a guess 95% of the people who AP or in the gambling industry would agree with me. Feel free to name one person who's well respected in the gambling industry that has anything good to say about Robs system, NVM his system most of them want nothing to do with Rob and his antics. Perhaps he can turn a new leaf and change all that. I have no clue if he can but I'm all for giving people a chance to redeem themselves, I wish everyone could.

  16. #876
    I have already stated that I do believe AP's are doing the right thing. I went after AP's as a policy in 2000 because I was not able to capitalize on the concept. After I ran into the double up play I made the decision to continue and actually increase my insults, to disrupt anywhere and everywhere I made an appearance at, and to steadily rail against APing.

    That however was nothing but show, because everyone by now should know that I know better and that there is a constant battle going on between that community and the casinos.

    I know Bob Dancer is heavily into all this and I know I've constantly criticized him over the years. But the fact is, I'm more perturbed at him for how he says and brags about how he treated his ex wife than I am with his professional life. I don't really have anything against how some people go about trying to make a living. I just think they are not telling the entire story, which can be a danger to any number of readers.

    Still....I stand by how well my strategy worked for four years which has nothing to do with any of the long term logic. And I would at any time accept any challenge like I offered in WoV---that I could win at least 8 of 10 sessions while making at least a $25k profit. If the math people (which is what I am) believed this would be impossible, then they would chase this in a heartbeat. But they never did.

  17. #877
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I have already stated that I do believe AP's are doing the right thing. I went after AP's as a policy in 2000 because I was not able to capitalize on the concept. After I ran into the double up play I made the decision to continue and actually increase my insults, to disrupt anywhere and everywhere I made an appearance at, and to steadily rail against APing.

    That however was nothing but show, because everyone by now should know that I know better and that there is a constant battle going on between that community and the casinos.

    I know Bob Dancer is heavily into all this and I know I've constantly criticized him over the years. But the fact is, I'm more perturbed at him for how he says and brags about how he treated his ex wife than I am with his professional life. I don't really have anything against how some people go about trying to make a living. I just think they are not telling the entire story, which can be a danger to any number of readers.

    Still....I stand by how well my strategy worked for four years which has nothing to do with any of the long term logic. And I would at any time accept any challenge like I offered in WoV---that I could win at least 8 of 10 sessions while making at least a $25k profit. If the math people (which is what I am) believed this would be impossible, then they would chase this in a heartbeat. But they never did.
    Sounds good to me. I know many are thinking this is just another one of Robs games that he likes to play and we are all being played and you have some motivation or angle. Perhaps they are right, but I hope everyone is wrong. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, until I see otherwise. .

    I cant accept that challenge because it might be very possible to do(I don't know the math behind it all). However, that does NOT make it a long term winner.

    I asked this before, perhaps you avoided the question? I will ask again: During those years you were making about 600k per year, what were you doing with all the cash?

  18. #878
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    But the fact is, I'm more perturbed at him for how he says and brags about how he treated his ex wife than I am with his professional life.
    So then why did you write that shit about Redietz's and Kewlj's spouses ?

  19. #879
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I have already stated that I do believe AP's are doing the right thing. I went after AP's as a policy in 2000 because I was not able to capitalize on the concept. After I ran into the double up play I made the decision to continue and actually increase my insults, to disrupt anywhere and everywhere I made an appearance at, and to steadily rail against APing.

    That however was nothing but show, because everyone by now should know that I know better and that there is a constant battle going on between that community and the casinos.

    I know Bob Dancer is heavily into all this and I know I've constantly criticized him over the years. But the fact is, I'm more perturbed at him for how he says and brags about how he treated his ex wife than I am with his professional life. I don't really have anything against how some people go about trying to make a living. I just think they are not telling the entire story, which can be a danger to any number of readers.

    Still....I stand by how well my strategy worked for four years which has nothing to do with any of the long term logic. And I would at any time accept any challenge like I offered in WoV---that I could win at least 8 of 10 sessions while making at least a $25k profit. If the math people (which is what I am) believed this would be impossible, then they would chase this in a heartbeat. But they never did.
    Sounds good to me. I know many are thinking this is just another one of Robs games that he likes to play and we are all being played and you have some motivation or angle. Perhaps they are right, but I hope everyone is wrong. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, until I see otherwise. .

    I cant accept that challenge because it might be very possible to do(I don't know the math behind it all). However, that does NOT make it a long term winner.

    I asked this before, perhaps you avoided the question? I will ask again: During those years you were making about 600k per year, what were you doing with all the cash?
    I did answer that question in post #861 above.

    People have the right to think anything they want. Some are objective and others are agenda-driven because they just don't like me for all the things I've said. And that's the choice I had to make. I know certain people can't separate the nonsense from what's real, but to me it was correct to come out with this with some people just unable to see it for what it really is. I asked to talk to you because I chose to expose how I really am to a respected AP instead of the character I played online for all these years. It's all part of the penance of having made a lot of money off of that play but it's worth it.

    I don't know if four years makes anything long-term or not in vp. It worked, and if that's going against the math then that's how it is. I may have calculated my luck just right or I may have simply landed on the short side of the Bell Curve. But the strategy was worth arguing.

  20. #880
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    But the fact is, I'm more perturbed at him for how he says and brags about how he treated his ex wife than I am with his professional life.
    So then why did you write that shit about Redietz's and Kewlj's spouses ?
    Because he's an asshole?

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