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Thread: Advantage play / cheating / crime....where is the line?

  1. #621
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Here's some examples of unethical behavior by casinos. And I'm bypassing the whole addiction, plying people with alcohol/hookers/love stuff. .
    No need to bypass the 'whole addiction stuff'. That's at the heart of most everything the industry does. Here's an article from a couple of years back. "How casinos enable gambling addicts"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...it-all/505814/

    It discusses the many ways the casino industry attempts to manipulate compulsive gamblers. It's a good read. Here's an interesting quote..."The business plan for casinos is not based on the occasional gambler. The business plan for casinos is based on the addicted gambler." Just like the Tobacco industry has made billions selling poison to addicted smokers. Is that ethical? Is it moral? It's clearly legal.

    Making the Casino Industry out to be some paragon of ethics and virtue is really blind to what they do. They do anything possible to legally separate gamblers from their money...from targeting compulsive gamblers to plying whales with alcohol until they are blackout drunk. I'm not going to judge them for that though. As long as it's legal. Just like I'm not going to criticize gamblers for doing everything they can do legally to separate the casino from their money. Turnabout is fair play.
    This posts and the attached articles are classic liberalism 101. Using this logic, the airline industry is trying to make people “addicted” to flying with their frequent flier program; hotels are trying make people “addicted” to staying in their hotels with their frequent point programs. I guess you could say all retail shops are trying to get us “addicted” to shopping at their stores since they all have loyalty cards. Casinos aren’t the only industry trying to drive business through loyalty cards.

    Here’s another business lesson for the all the APs that don’t understand how business works. All businesses make the majority of their profit from their most loyal customers. In liberal jargon, these are consider “addicted” customers. Of course, the casinos are trying to drive more business from their most loyal customers. All businesses do this. Amazon is really good at this. I’m “addicted” to many of their programs. I wonder if there is a seven step help program to help with my Amazon “addiction”. Lol

    Like I said, I never knew the AP community was so liberal. I get all of them aren’t liberals, but the vast majority are. They don’t believe in personal accountability. It’s always the business fault when an individual does something stupid. Liberals don’t believe people are capable of thinking for themselves.

    Being a proud conservative, I have more respect and confidence in the individual than most people. I also believe in freedom, which I know isn’t the case for most liberals. They want to impose their beliefs on the rest of society.
    I don't see how you can possibly turn my post into some 'liberal vs conservative' diatribe. Did you even read what I wrote? "They do anything possible to legally separate gamblers from their money...from targeting compulsive gamblers to plying whales with alcohol until they are blackout drunk. I'm not going to judge them for that though. As long as it's legal. "

    I'm just pointing out to the moralists who think exploiting the double up flaw is somehow immoral or cheating that the Casinos are not Angels either. And I'm OK with that. How you could possibly divine that I am a liberal from pointing out the obvious fact that Casinos try to legally take advantage of some gamblers and some gamblers try to legally take advantage of the casinos? Just like I don't have a problem with Cigarette companies selling poison to addicted customers. That's their business.

    But don't you go moralizing about a Video Poker play that appears to be perfectly legal but the poor casinos lose money on because they screwed up. Don't you think the Casinos and Game King have a responsibility to make sure their machines work the way they think they do? Or is it the Gambler's job to point that out to them? I don't think so. Responsibility works both ways.

    Now, if you really are a proud conservative who believes in personal responsibility, then I'm sure you agree all drugs should be 'legalized' and it's up to the individual to decide whether he wants to use or abuse them....as long as he isn't hurting anyone, why should the Government even be involved, right? Same goes for prostitution. Same goes for gambling. Right? That's what I believe anyway. Not some liberal nanny state where the gubmint tries to run our lives.
    Last edited by unowme; 05-27-2019 at 03:09 PM.

  2. #622
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    No need to bypass the 'whole addiction stuff'. That's at the heart of most everything the industry does. Here's an article from a couple of years back. "How casinos enable gambling addicts"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...it-all/505814/

    It discusses the many ways the casino industry attempts to manipulate compulsive gamblers. It's a good read. Here's an interesting quote..."The business plan for casinos is not based on the occasional gambler. The business plan for casinos is based on the addicted gambler." Just like the Tobacco industry has made billions selling poison to addicted smokers. Is that ethical? Is it moral? It's clearly legal.

    Making the Casino Industry out to be some paragon of ethics and virtue is really blind to what they do. They do anything possible to legally separate gamblers from their money...from targeting compulsive gamblers to plying whales with alcohol until they are blackout drunk. I'm not going to judge them for that though. As long as it's legal. Just like I'm not going to criticize gamblers for doing everything they can do legally to separate the casino from their money. Turnabout is fair play.
    This posts and the attached articles are classic liberalism 101. Using this logic, the airline industry is trying to make people “addicted” to flying with their frequent flier program; hotels are trying make people “addicted” to staying in their hotels with their frequent point programs. I guess you could say all retail shops are trying to get us “addicted” to shopping at their stores since they all have loyalty cards. Casinos aren’t the only industry trying to drive business through loyalty cards.

    Here’s another business lesson for the all the APs that don’t understand how business works. All businesses make the majority of their profit from their most loyal customers. In liberal jargon, these are consider “addicted” customers. Of course, the casinos are trying to drive more business from their most loyal customers. All businesses do this. Amazon is really good at this. I’m “addicted” to many of their programs. I wonder if there is a seven step help program to help with my Amazon “addiction”. Lol

    Like I said, I never knew the AP community was so liberal. I get all of them aren’t liberals, but the vast majority are. They don’t believe in personal accountability. It’s always the business fault when an individual does something stupid. Liberals don’t believe people are capable of thinking for themselves.

    Being a proud conservative, I have more respect and confidence in the individual than most people. I also believe in freedom, which I know isn’t the case for most liberals. They want to impose their beliefs on the rest of society.
    I don't see how you can possibly turn my post into some 'liberal vs conservative' diatribe. Did you even read what I wrote? "They do anything possible to legally separate gamblers from their money...from targeting compulsive gamblers to plying whales with alcohol until they are blackout drunk. I'm not going to judge them for that though. As long as it's legal. "

    I'm just pointing out to the moralists who think exploiting the double up flaw is somehow immoral or cheating that the Casinos are not Angels either. And I'm OK with that. How you could possibly divine that I am a liberal from pointing out the obvious fact that Casinos try to legally take advantage of some gamblers and some gamblers try to legally take advantage of the casinos? Just like I don't have a problem with Cigarette companies selling poison to addicted customers. That's their business.

    But don't you go moralizing about a Video Poker play that appears to be perfectly legal but the poor casinos lose money on because they screwed up. Don't you think the Casinos and Game King have a responsibility to make sure their machines work the way they think they do? Or is it the Gambler's job to point that out to them? I don't think so. Responsibility works both ways.

    Now, if you really are a proud conservative who believes in personal responsibility, then I'm sure you agree all drugs should be 'legalized' and it's up to the individual to decide whether he wants to use or abuse them....as long as he isn't hurting anyone, why should the Government even be involved, right? Same goes for prostitution. Same goes for gambling. Right? That's what I believe anyway. Not some liberal nanny state where the gubmint tries to run our lives.
    Unowme, you did attach an article from Atlantic Magazine which is a nut case liberal magazine. Here’s the thing you’re still not getting. Casinos sell gambling. They are not taking “advantage” of anybody. That is the business they are in. They want everybody to gamble as much as possible, just like airlines want people to fly as much as possible and hotels want people to stay in their hotels as much as possible. Casinos are doing NOTHING morally wrong targeting their most loyal customers, or trying to make non-loyal customers loyal, or in liberal jargon “addicts”. This is not “taking advantage” of anybody, like the Atlantic magazine tried to say. This is just good business.

    As far as the double up bug on the Game King, I didn’t criticize Nestor or Kane or anybody else who tried to get away with it. I would have probably done the same thing, even though it definitely is in the grey area. Many people have pointed that out already.

    I see it kind of like what Phil Ivey did with edge sorting. What he did was not illegal, but it was still scamming the casinos. He tricked (or manipulated) the casinos into altering the game so it gave him an unfair advantage. He was basically playing the game the way it was NOT intended to be played, and he knew that. What can I say, Phil’s a scam artist.

    Have you read the court’s ruling on this? I have, and I thought the courts got it right. They said Phil did nothing illegal, but he still needed to give all the money back. Both courts (USA and England) pretty much ruled the same way. Good to see we have some courts with good ’ol common sense.

  3. #623
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Name:  
Views: 
Size:


    Seemed like a good picture for the discussion.
    The Golden Phoenix had fantastic blackjack rules. Unfortunately they remained in business only 5 years or so IIRC.

  4. #624
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    Here’s the thing you’re still not getting. Casinos sell gambling. They are not taking “advantage” of anybody.
    Oh I get it. Cigarette Companies sell tobacco. They are not taking 'advantage' of anybody either. Only they know people get addicted to their products and it kills them. Is it moral? Is it ethical? Or just a company that employs a bunch of people trying to make a profit? Nothing wrong or immoral about that.

    Whether or not you reject the Atlantic article, there are in fact addicted gamblers in this world and the casinos purposely target them. All I'm pointing out is that when you try to say exploiting the bug is unethical or immoral or just plain wrong....if it's legal...(and it appears to be), they are no more unethical or immoral or wrong than the casinos trying to legally separate gambling addicts from their money.

    How does that matter? I'd have no problem taking casino money if I found such a legal flaw in a game. I would consider that an advantage over the casino, but I'd have no problem taking it. They are in the business of offering casino gambling games it's their responsibility to make sure the games work as they want. Not mine It's my responsibility not to blow all my money gambling or not to get so drunk I don't remember blowing all my money gambling.

    There are lots of organizations and individuals I would have a problem exploiting any kind legal advantage. Casinos don't fit into that category for me. Is it situational ethics? Maybe. Or maybe it's just playing a game and it didn't work out the way the Casino intended. Not my problem....Because Freedom & Responsibility. Just like it's not my problem if weak or sick or impaired gamblers lose their fortunes to the Casinos. They should have made better choices. I really don't think we're that far apart on this. The issue is when we start moralizing about the legal actions of players and casinos. Maybe neither are truly ethical, but I don't care.

  5. #625
    Unowme, you’re getting me mixed up with someone else. I have never said exploiting a bug in a slot machine is unethical. In fact, I’ve said I’d probably do the same thing if I found one, but I think I’d be smarter than Kane and Nestor in how I exploited it.

    Me and most people are criticizing Kane and Nestor for being stupid. Kane sat at one machine and got 8 jackpots in an hour and a half. The casino is obviously going to be alerted that something is wrong with that machine. Nestor went back to the same casino again and again taking half million dollars in a couple months. Anybody with half a brain knows the casino is going to know something isn’t right. They got caught within a couple months of finding the bug. The surprising thing is they didn’t get caught sooner. The only crime they are guilty of in my book is stupidity...and the last I checked being stupid is not against the law.

    As far as the Atlantic article, it’s how it “spins” marketing. All companies do marketing studies to target people that are more prone to buy their product. Casinos are no different. If it makes you feel better to say casinos target “addicts”, then go for it...that’s what the writers of the Atlantic magazine choose to believe.

    Here’s the point most have been missing. There is NO way to run a casino in a free society without hurting the weaker people in our society. That’s a fact! The ones who can not eat in moderation, not drink in moderation, not gamble in moderation, etc, will be hurt when a casino opens. It’s not the fault of the casino industry that there are some weak members of our society. Call them “addicts” if that makes you feel better.

    If you are upset at casino, then you should take your angry out on our government for allowing them. Don’t blame casinos for doing what they’re supposed to do, which is trying to sell more gambling to the people who like to gamble, and trying to get new customers to gamble.

    As far as the tabacoo industry, why are you upset st them too? They sell a legal product that many feel add value to their lives. If it’s legal, they should have the right to sell as much tabacoo as possible using all legal means possible. Why do you have a problem with that?

    I know liberals don’t like McDonald’s too, and really pretty all businesses. One liberal goofball, Michael Moore, made a movie attacking McDonald’s called “super size it”, blaming McDonald’s for why our country has fat people. Are you upset at McDonald’s too?
    Last edited by Bob21; 05-28-2019 at 07:38 AM.

  6. #626
    >It’s not the fault of the casino industry that there are some weak members of our society.

    The flesh of the weak is food for the strong.

  7. #627
    Home from a long weekend of camping in the Canyon. Pretty damn cold at night. booked 3 months ago and didn't know we would have 20 degree colder weather than usual. What are you going to do. Can't argue with Mother Nature. And I am proud to say I didn't waste 1 single minute online reading this crap. Looks like the same crap as when I left. The exception would be Dan Druff has finally shared his thoughts after 31 pages. Way to go Dan. Who said he was a lazy Canadian?

    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    - If you find a glitch in a machine which makes it behave contrary to how it was intended, then I feel that's cheating and is wrong. An example was the Game King "double up" case. The guys busted for this deserved it. They were basically doing the same thing as repeatedly using an ATM which is overpaying. They're just lucky that the government was stupid and charged them with crimes which didn't apply to the case (lol computer hacking).
    Although it took a while, I agree with our forum owner. He is spot on. I always liked that guy.

    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    Unowme, you’re getting me mixed up with someone else. I have never said exploiting a bug in a slot machine is unethical. In fact, I’ve said I’d probably do the same thing if I found one, but I think I’d be smarter than Kane and Nestor in how I exploited it.
    Bob21 don't confused whether something is unethical or wrong with the fact that "you would do it". I think that has happened a lot in this thread. AP's want to do this play, precisely because they ARE AP's. They want to find a reason that it is ok (justify). But I refuse to believe that most of you really don't know the difference in right or wrong. IF this is really the case then Monet is right and I am wrong in that AP's really are just generally "bad" people. Or maybe it is "bad" people are drawn to AP. Either way. Sad. I don't believe that.

  8. #628
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    If you are upset at casino, then you should take your angry out on our government for allowing them. Don’t blame casinos for doing what they’re supposed to do, which is trying to sell more gambling to the people who like to gamble, and trying to get new customers to gamble.

    As far as the tabacoo industry, why are you upset st them too? They sell a legal product that many feel add value to their lives. If it’s legal, they should have the right to sell as much tabacoo as possible using all legal means possible. Why do you have a problem with that?
    ?
    If you read what I actually wrote you'd see I don't have a problem with either of these industries. The OP here was making exploiting the double up flaw into a MORAL and ETHICAL issue. Right and Wrong. My point in bringing up the morality of the industry was that if you believe legally taking advantage of the weakness in the Game King Machines was Immoral, Unethical and Wrong like the OP claimed then you'd have to conclude that the Casinos aren't exactly Moral and Ethical in their behavior. I don't believe either. I'm not the morality police. I try not to be hypocritical though and for whatever reason, I would never legally exploit another individual or even a company unless I had a good reason....not just to make money. I see Casinos as different maybe because they are in the business of Gambling and I do see it as the Gambler vs the Gambling Hall. Maybe that makes me a bad person, but I can live with that.

  9. #629
    I wish you guys (bob21) wouldn't demonize people by placing the liberal or conservative label on them. Mickey does this with the WoV thread but at least he is doing so in reference to political threads at WoV, where people comments pretty much declares their position. In this context, we aren't discussion politics and such a label just because someone has a differing view has no benefit. And even if you are basing it on a particular view expressed, like one's view toward the casino industry, people can lean liberal on one topic and conservative on others and come down in the middle on others.

    It is bad enough you guys went off on your religious sidetrack last week. (talk about your hijacking). And while I started this thread, it isn't my threat. The subject matter is of my dear friend Rob Singer, making it his thread and I hate to see him disrespected with such hijacking.

  10. #630
    I don't ever try to justify anything to myself. I know what's what and I can't trick myself into thinking a different way. Whenever I beat a casino as an AP, I don't try to justify it by saying they are evil and deserve it or whatever. I want to make some money and that's that.

    Someone might want to make up a bunch of bullshit to justify and convince others what they are doing/did is okay, therefore, they are not unethical, I guess. As long as Im not hurting an individual personally, and I'm not going to jail for doing it, I'm good with it. example: If I bought something at WalMart and I broke it on the way home I would not have any problem taking it back and saying it was like that when I bought it. does that activity hurt everyone in the long run and push up prices? Probably. I could try to justify it by saying everyone else is doing it and I pay for that I do it myself. I won't do that because the truth is... I just don't care.

    If you believe in the traditional God, just stepping foot into a casino is unethical.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 05-28-2019 at 09:45 AM.

  11. #631
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I wish you guys (bob21) wouldn't demonize people by placing the liberal or conservative label on them. Mickey does this with the WoV thread but at least he is doing so in reference to political threads at WoV, where people comments pretty much declares their position. In this context, we aren't discussion politics and such a label just because someone has a differing view has no benefit. And even if you are basing it on a particular view expressed, like one's view toward the casino industry, people can lean liberal on one topic and conservative on others and come down in the middle on others.

    It is bad enough you guys went off on your religious sidetrack last week. (talk about your hijacking). And while I started this thread, it isn't my threat. The subject matter is of my dear friend Rob Singer, making it his thread and I hate to see him disrespected with such hijacking.
    Valid comments kJ. I guess it’s just my pet peeve when I see people blame businesses for people’s actions. You did it too Kj. You blamed the casino industry for Leonard Tose (one time owner of Philly Eagles) gambling loses. No one held a gun to Leonard’s head and made him gamble so much he had to sell the Eagles. He did it with his own free will.

    Personally, I think the casinos should be commended for being able to convince Leonard Tose to gamble so much he lost everything and had to see his Eagles. I’m sure the Eagles ended up going to a more compentent owner.

    In my book, the casinos get a gold star for this and Leonard Tose gets a Darwin Award. lol

  12. #632
    TBH the idea of it being "immoral" or "unethical" makes it more exciting and more fun. It feels GOOD to be "getting one over" on the world for a change.

  13. #633
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post

    If you are upset at casino, then you should take your angry out on our government for allowing them. Don’t blame casinos for doing what they’re supposed to do, which is trying to sell more gambling to the people who like to gamble, and trying to get new customers to gamble.

    As far as the tabacoo industry, why are you upset st them too? They sell a legal product that many feel add value to their lives. If it’s legal, they should have the right to sell as much tabacoo as possible using all legal means possible. Why do you have a problem with that?
    ?
    If you read what I actually wrote you'd see I don't have a problem with either of these industries. The OP here was making exploiting the double up flaw into a MORAL and ETHICAL issue. Right and Wrong. My point in bringing up the morality of the industry was that if you believe legally taking advantage of the weakness in the Game King Machines was Immoral, Unethical and Wrong like the OP claimed then you'd have to conclude that the Casinos aren't exactly Moral and Ethical in their behavior. I don't believe either. I'm not the morality police. I try not to be hypocritical though and for whatever reason, I would never legally exploit another individual or even a company unless I had a good reason....not just to make money. I see Casinos as different maybe because they are in the business of Gambling and I do see it as the Gambler vs the Gambling Hall. Maybe that makes me a bad person, but I can live with that.
    We’re on the same page then. I didn’t agree with the OP either. If I found a bug in a casino (or something that looked like a bug, lol) and could exploit it, I probably would, but I’d hope I’d be smarter than Kane and Nestor.

    When you attached that article from Atlantic Magazine I probably didn’t read close enough to what you were saying. I’ve seen so many APs post that article it’s not even funny. Well really it is. Lol. That seems to be the go-to article APs post to show me casinos are evil or unethical. Talk about a slanted article. Basically, the Atlantic writer took what all businesses do (market to their most profitable customers) and painted this like some evil thing. If that’s wrong, then all businesses are evil.

  14. #634
    Bob's arguments seem very strange to me.

    He concedes all of the allegations of dirty tricks by casinos, but is angry that people blame casinos for these actions, because casinos exist to make money and anything done legally to make money is ok?

    This is a particularly strange attitude for a conservative Christian. He must be a great fan of abortion clinics which are both legal (for now) and typically non-profit I believe.

  15. #635
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I don't ever try to justify anything to myself. I know what's what and I can't trick myself into thinking a different way. Whenever I beat a casino as an AP, I don't try to justify it by saying they are evil and deserve it or whatever. I want to make some money and that's that.

    Someone might want to make up a bunch of bullshit to justify and convince others what they are doing/did is okay, therefore, they are not unethical, I guess. As long as Im not hurting an individual personally, and I'm not going to jail for doing it, I'm good with it. example: If I bought something at WalMart and I broke it on the way home I would not have any problem taking it back and saying it was like that when I bought it. does that activity hurt everyone in the long run and push up prices? Probably. I could try to justify it by saying everyone else is doing it and I pay for that I do it myself. I won't do that because the truth is... I just don't care.

    If you believe in the traditional God, just stepping foot into a casino is unethical.
    Not that I really care but I do see a lot of APs that seem to use the harmfulness of casinos (which is real) to justify or even valorize their way of making money. It's a little silly.

  16. #636
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Bob's arguments seem very strange to me.

    He concedes all of the allegations of dirty tricks by casinos, but is angry that people blame casinos for these actions, because casinos exist to make money and anything done legally to make money is ok?

    This is a particularly strange attitude for a conservative Christian. He must be a great fan of abortion clinics which are both legal (for now) and typically non-profit I believe.
    You’re missing my point smurgerburger. I have never conceded casinos use “dirty tricks”. Where did you get that? I said casinos do the same thing every other business does. They use marketing to try to sell more product to the customers. They use loyalty programs, and other marketing tools. All companies do this. I do not see this as “dirty tricks”. Apperantly you do.

    I’ve said many times I try to keep casinos out of my local community. I fault our government for allowing casinos to operate. Governments, state and local, are why casinos exist. Governments know the weaker members of society (the one liberals label as “addicts”) will be negatively impacted when they let casinos in, but they still approve them. That should tell you something about our government, which is a reflection of us, since we’re a democracy.

    I will not fault a casino for doing what it is intended to do, which many APs don’t understand. One more time for you since you appeared to miss it: A casino’s business model is to extract money from people by giving them entertainment through negative EV games. It’s that simple. Since casinos make a lot of money, people most enjoy this experience since they keep coming back.

  17. #637
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I don't ever try to justify anything to myself. I know what's what and I can't trick myself into thinking a different way. Whenever I beat a casino as an AP, I don't try to justify it by saying they are evil and deserve it or whatever. I want to make some money and that's that.

    Someone might want to make up a bunch of bullshit to justify and convince others what they are doing/did is okay, therefore, they are not unethical, I guess. As long as Im not hurting an individual personally, and I'm not going to jail for doing it, I'm good with it. example: If I bought something at WalMart and I broke it on the way home I would not have any problem taking it back and saying it was like that when I bought it. does that activity hurt everyone in the long run and push up prices? Probably. I could try to justify it by saying everyone else is doing it and I pay for that I do it myself. I won't do that because the truth is... I just don't care.

    If you believe in the traditional God, just stepping foot into a casino is unethical.
    Not that I really care but I do see a lot of APs that seem to use the harmfulness of casinos (which is real) to justify or even valorize their way of making money. It's a little silly.
    I may have said before...when casino's stop fucking me over, I'll stop fucking them over. However, that's not true, I would still do my thing. I don't have to worry about it since casino's will never stop their shenanigans. However, that's not why I do what I do.

  18. #638
    Not that it matters smurgenburger, but how did you go off into abortion with your logic. You must be a liberal because liberals argue like that. They go off into left field and it’s hard to follow their logic.

    For the record, I am strongly pro-life.

  19. #639
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I don't ever try to justify anything to myself. I know what's what and I can't trick myself into thinking a different way. Whenever I beat a casino as an AP, I don't try to justify it by saying they are evil and deserve it or whatever. I want to make some money and that's that.

    Someone might want to make up a bunch of bullshit to justify and convince others what they are doing/did is okay, therefore, they are not unethical, I guess. As long as Im not hurting an individual personally, and I'm not going to jail for doing it, I'm good with it. example: If I bought something at WalMart and I broke it on the way home I would not have any problem taking it back and saying it was like that when I bought it. does that activity hurt everyone in the long run and push up prices? Probably. I could try to justify it by saying everyone else is doing it and I pay for that I do it myself. I won't do that because the truth is... I just don't care.

    If you believe in the traditional God, just stepping foot into a casino is unethical.
    Although people may not want to understand that this is EXACTLY how I've felt about "AP'ing" all along, it is one of the primary reasons I chose axel first to discuss what I've really been doing with vp with when the limitations etc. clock was up. You could literally put my name up on the left as the author of this post.

  20. #640
    Originally Posted by Bob21 View Post
    I will not fault a casino for doing what it is intended to do, which many APs don’t understand. One more time for you since you appeared to miss it: A casino’s business model is to extract money from people by giving them entertainment through negative EV games. It’s that simple. Since casinos make a lot of money, people most enjoy this experience since they keep coming back.

    Do you extend the same indulgence to pimps, crack dealers, sex traffickers, etc.? You don't fault them because they're doing what they're "intended" to do?

    You blame governments for permitting casinos and degenerate gamblers for gambling at them, but you don't fault the entity that actually makes a profit from the activity?

    For some reason you treat casinos as mechanical entities just automatically doing what they were "intended" to do, but you blame every other group that has any role in the gambling industry. It seems very strange to me.

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