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Thread: Advantage play / cheating / crime....where is the line?

  1. #961
    Originally Posted by Count Room View Post
    Any thoughts?
    Nice find!

  2. #962
    Good research. Thanks for finding all that. It puts things in perspective.

  3. #963
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Good research. Thanks for finding all that. It puts things in perspective.
    Just to be clear, since it isn't clear without reading the court filing. Rob basically parrots/repeats what is in the motion to dismiss. He wasn't showing any specific knowledge at that point like it may appear in the thread. He just reposted what is in the motion to dismiss. If anyone wants to know how he knew the play, there is your answer.

  4. #964
    You're not very clear. Explain why this is a "find" and what that means. That thread is from 2013 and I've been on top of everything related to the case since 2009--for obvious reasons.

    What I think I'm seeing is some jealous haters making believe nobody reads postings about the case, but that I did and I waited 6 years to talk about it. Brilliant.

    All you did was get a previously stunned and silent spock wet.

  5. #965
    Originally Posted by Count Room View Post
    Hey, apologies for necro'ing this thread, but I was researching it today and happened to stumble on Rob's posts and article where he exploited the Kane/Nestor VP machine glitch. Something felt wrong to me, and I eventually found this related thread from 2013:

    https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...heating-or-not

    Any thoughts?
    Wait. Maybe YOU can answer this. Are you trying to say that my explanation of the play "bothered you"? Exactly how? And are you also saying the explanations in the articles and Motion haven't been known to anyone until today....even though the post is from 6 years ago? Huh?

    Another problem: there's been dozens of articles etc. on this play posted right here since I released my info. You mean nobody read them...even though kew put a lot of them up which most likely included the ones from 2013?

    I'm not following this. Other than sitting on the sidelines having been stung by what I said I did and wishing it were not true, what is your point?

    BTW, I haven't read anywhere that explains how the play works on two different variations of double-up, or how it works on wins that don't generate a machine lockup/W2G. Care to share where I got that info?

  6. #966
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Wait. Maybe YOU can answer this. Are you trying to say that my explanation of the play "bothered you"? Exactly how? And are you also saying the explanations in the articles and Motion haven't been known to anyone until today....even though the post is from 6 years ago? Huh?

    Another problem: there's been dozens of articles etc. on this play posted right here since I released my info. You mean nobody read them...even though kew put a lot of them up which most likely included the ones from 2013?

    I'm not following this. Other than sitting on the sidelines having been stung by what I said I did and wishing it were not true, what is your point?

    BTW, I haven't read anywhere that explains how the play works on two different variations of double-up, or how it works on wins that don't generate a machine lockup/W2G. Care to share where I got that info?
    Rob, I used to post here much more often when Alan was running the forum. It was more enjoyable for me during those years. As for the more recent years, I've basically ignored this forum and until today I didn't even know you were claiming to use the same methods as Kane and Nestor to make multiple millions for yourself.

    As for why I suddenly showed up here: On a recent gambling trip I found a solid advantage play, yet I wanted to see what the possibilities were of getting 86'd from the casino in question once the mistake is eventually discovered by management. Due to this question on my mind, I decided to research various AP threads to help answer my concerns. One of the threads I looked into was this one, where I finally discovered what you've been talking about lately.

    Anyway, what felt wrong to me was when I vaguely remembered having a thread discussion on this very same Kane/Nestor topic with you, Alan, and Dan Druff years ago where you said something dramatically different than what you are saying this year...yet I couldn't pin down exactly where we talked about this. 15 minutes of creative research later I found that 2013 thread where I, myself, posted a couple times.

    On posts #2 and #4 in that thread you are saying Kane and Nestor had no right to wins greater than the denominations played, and you also say they are committing fraud.

    (Here's the 2013 thread again: https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...heating-or-not )

    What does this say about your making millions doing the exact same thing they were?
    Last edited by Count Room; 09-01-2019 at 01:10 AM.

  7. #967
    Originally Posted by Count Room View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Wait. Maybe YOU can answer this. Are you trying to say that my explanation of the play "bothered you"? Exactly how? And are you also saying the explanations in the articles and Motion haven't been known to anyone until today....even though the post is from 6 years ago? Huh?

    Another problem: there's been dozens of articles etc. on this play posted right here since I released my info. You mean nobody read them...even though kew put a lot of them up which most likely included the ones from 2013?

    I'm not following this. Other than sitting on the sidelines having been stung by what I said I did and wishing it were not true, what is your point?

    BTW, I haven't read anywhere that explains how the play works on two different variations of double-up, or how it works on wins that don't generate a machine lockup/W2G. Care to share where I got that info?
    Rob, I used to post here much more often when Alan was running the forum. It was more enjoyable for me during those years. As for the more recent years, I've basically ignored this forum and until today I didn't even know you were claiming to use the same methods as Kane and Nestor to make multiple millions for yourself.

    As for why I suddenly showed up here: On a recent gambling trip I found a solid advantage play, yet I wanted to see what the possibilities were of getting 86'd from the casino in question once the mistake is eventually discovered by management. Due to this question on my mind, I decided to research various AP threads to help answer my concerns. One of the threads I looked into was this one, where I finally discovered what you've been talking about lately.

    Anyway, what felt wrong to me was when I vaguely remembered having a thread discussion on this very same Kane/Nestor topic with you, Alan, and Dan Druff years ago where you said something dramatically different than what you are saying this year...yet I couldn't pin down exactly where we talked about this. 15 minutes of creative research later I found that 2013 thread where I, myself, posted a couple times.

    On posts #2 and #4 in that thread you are saying Kane and Nestor had no right to wins greater than the denominations played, and you also say they are committing fraud.

    (Here's the 2013 thread again: https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...heating-or-not )

    What does this say about your making millions doing the exact same thing they were?
    First thanks for explaining what you meant. After I was forced to leave this play behind, there was NO ONE more tuned into all the info coming out of the case than me. Anybody who doesn't think I made it my business to keep on top of the case for the last ten years really has no idea as to what's at stake. I've seen all the public stuff and even some things nobody else has because of a few federal contacts I have. So naturally anything that's been disclosed, I know about. But everyone else should too, only they're more interested in claiming I gleaned the info and pretended to be the "only one" who knows it. Well, as I explained I do know a few things never made public, but that knowledge comes from laying down the play. And I'm still betting I know more about it than IGT, the engineer who duplicated Kane's steps, and anyone else alive.

    That thread was from 2013--right in the middle of my period of silence. I didn't start the conversation, but NATURALLY I was going to attempt to keep/throw everyone off course. Just as much as my nasty forums personality was a put-on, anything I ever said about this play was for the same purpose.

    I agree this place was far better back then, although I don't miss my act. I believe it should be shut down for the greater good.
    Last edited by Rob.Singer; 09-01-2019 at 02:30 AM.

  8. #968
    Rob S wrote:


    I agree this place was far better back then, although I don't miss my act. I believe it should be shut down for the greater good.



    Well if the board is, in fact, ready to shut down I just want you to know Rob that I never believed your story about the Game King glitch from your point of view. For the simple fact that I find it incomprehensible that large jackpots would not be properly replayed and re-reviewed thoroughly before any payout was made. It is just not logical from a casino business "trust no one" perspective.

  9. #969
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Rob S wrote:


    I agree this place was far better back then, although I don't miss my act. I believe it should be shut down for the greater good.



    Well if the board is, in fact, ready to shut down I just want you to know Rob that I never believed your story about the Game King glitch from your point of view. For the simple fact that I find it incomprehensible that large jackpots would not be properly replayed and re-reviewed thoroughly before any payout was made. It is just not logical from a casino business "trust no one" perspective.
    I wonder....if with your vast amount of experience, you cannot comprehend jackpots being paid out without being thoroughly reviewed and then re-reviewed--even when it's only one time per casino as in how I operated--then how exactly was it that Kane & Nestor sat for weeks at machines, constantly not only working this play, but using the same winning hands over and over and over again....not getting caught until at least half a million dollars were in their pockets? Wynn got hit for a quarter million in a day or two. Are you saying their surveillance and "verification" people were asleep at the wheel like every place but the Silverton was?

    Here's what really happens so you don't exit too confused. Nobody watches your play unless there's a reason to, and after hitting a single jackpot there's no particular reason to suspect anything. But in the case of Kane/Nestor, it sure seems like even what THEY did failed to arouse enough suspicion to watch them....until Silverton of course.

    My question about all this has more to do with the sequence of events the night Kane got "caught". (I put "caught" in parentheses because the articles really don't identify that Silverton knew what he actually was doing--only that he was "winning too many jackpots"--which is stupid if they believed he was playing $10 TDBP triple-play, and that it appeared he used the same winner twice somehow). Why did IGT need some super duper engineer to spend a month in trial & error trying to duplicate Kane's procedure if it were all right there on surveillance video recordings? Is THIS the type of ultra-careful reviewing you're talking about?

    But I'm like you--I err on the side of caution. That's why I NEVER purposely hit more than a single jackpot in any single casino visit. But it's also why I firmly believe it's what kept my play undetected for the better part of 5-1/2 years.

  10. #970
    What genius moves.

    To throw everyone off the scent, I mention publicly that I accidentally hit the double up after a jackpot, then was paid off after a debate with casino administration. This of course has the effect of putting it out there in the public sphere that I was aware of the double up, so that any casinos where I hit a similar jackpot would know it wasn't an accident. Then, to additionally throw everyone off the trail, I condemn those who win via the glitch as clearly breaking the law. I do this, of course, before my statute of limitations expires so that in case I'm caught, it's clear I knew exactly what I was doing and consider it illegal.

    It's like someone playing 3-D chess while everyone else is playing checkers.

  11. #971
    I am sorry but I have to comment on Rob's absurdity this morning.

    Just as BoSox said, Reviewing jackpots is going to be at the top of surveillance responsibilities. Reviewing the winning play that results in the jackpot takes about 5 seconds. Is it possible some surveillance guy somewhere skipped doing this, one of the top priorities of his job....sure. It is possible that all surveillance crews over the 5 1/2 years that Rob claims this play, skipped doing this top priority because it "felt" legit to them. Absolutely not! NO CHANCE IN HELL!

    Second this thread from 2013 that count room dug up and posted, proves Rob's claim is BS. When I read it last night, I immediately knew that Rob would say he was deflecting. That is so convenient when you are caught lying. Let's look at the facts.

    If Rob executed this play from 2004-2009 as he claims, and there was a 10 year period waiting for statute of limitations to expire, then right smack in the middle of this period, Rob posts on a small obscure message board that this action is illegal. Just think about that. Afraid of legal consequences for these actions he publicly admits on a message board forum that he knows this was illegal.

    That means that should he have been caught and faced legal consequences in this 10 year window, he had basically admitted guilt to what would have been the defense that he didn't know he had done anything illegal. He admitted knowing it was illegal. And for what? To hear Rob explain it, to throw Arci, Redietz, Alan, Dan Druff and a couple other posters at the time on a very obscure, small message board forum....off the track? Without a doubt the most idiotic thing ever suggested.

    Can you see it now: Rob is in court claiming he didn't know these actions were illegal. The prosecutor reads Rob's comments saying he knew they were illegal, which would undermine his own defense. Rob's attorney looks at him and says "What the fuck??" to which Rob replies "well I wanted to throw Arci off the track". I mean seriously anybody buying this is as full of crap as Rob.

    The fact is that as I said months ago, as a degenerate losing gambler, Rob was intrigued by this story, and surely jealous, just as he is intrigued and jealous of real advantage players that manage to play with an advantage and consistently beat casino games. So intrigued as he was, he read everything he could of this case, even claiming to have some inside relatives or friends that knew of info that may not have been released publicly.

    And this is exactly what I said months ago. Rob somehow, I don't want to guess how, but somehow came into some information about this story that might not be known publicly and is parlaying that into credibility with one or two respected AP's that he executed this play for 5 1/2 years.

    Just another chapter of Rob's BS in the quest for attention and relevance in the AP world.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 09-01-2019 at 10:11 AM.

  12. #972
    Funny, all the Inspector Clouseau's still going at it with pie in the sky theories of Rob lying. Kane & Nestor hit multiple casinos for multiple jackpots, many all in the same day, and re-using hands, but surveillance in these various casinos did not notice anything peculiar. So you can't blame it on one inept surveillance person in one casino. What Kane & Nestor did suggests that surveillance in these places don't watch it that close at all. Those two guys carried on sloppy as hell for 3 months. What finally got them busted was finally a surveillance person figured them hitting to many handpays in to short of a time period so they were watched until Silverton surveillance figured it out. Once again you guys are coming up with 2 + 2 = 5.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  13. #973
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Funny, all the Inspector Clouseau's still going at it with pie in the sky theories of Rob lying. Kane & Nestor hit multiple casinos for multiple jackpots, many all in the same day, and re-using hands, but surveillance in these various casinos did not notice anything peculiar. So you can't blame it on one inept surveillance person in one casino. What Kane & Nestor did suggests that surveillance in these places watch it that close at all. Those two guys carried on sloppy as hell for 3 months. What finally got them busted was finally a surveillance person figured them hitting to many handpays in to short of a time period so they were watched until Silverton surveillance figured it out. Once again you guys are coming up with 2 + 2 = 5.

    I said nothing about surveillance. Not one word. Not a letter. I was just pointing out how genius "Singer's" seemingly illogical, self-incriminating posts must have been.

    So, once again, the use of the phrase "you guys" is a classic straw man. Tsk tsk. This is twice you've said something like this, mickey.

    Like Mulder, I want to believe. Somebody who lies to thousands of readers to simply create a fake trail is, in my opinion, much sleazier than someone pushing a martingale that he halfway believes might be responsible for his wins. I want to believe.

    But it's getting tougher....

  14. #974
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Funny, all the Inspector Clouseau's still going at it with pie in the sky theories of Rob lying. Kane & Nestor hit multiple casinos for multiple jackpots, many all in the same day, and re-using hands, but surveillance in these various casinos did not notice anything peculiar. So you can't blame it on one inept surveillance person in one casino. What Kane & Nestor did suggests that surveillance in these places watch it that close at all. Those two guys carried on sloppy as hell for 3 months. What finally got them busted was finally a surveillance person figured them hitting to many handpays in to short of a time period so they were watched until Silverton surveillance figured it out. Once again you guys are coming up with 2 + 2 = 5.

    I said nothing about surveillance. Not one word. Not a letter. I was just pointing out how genius "Singer's" seemingly illogical, self-incriminating posts must have been.

    So, once again, the use of the phrase "you guys" is a classic straw man. Tsk tsk. This is twice you've said something like this, mickey.

    Like Mulder, I want to believe. Somebody who lies to thousands of readers to simply create a fake trail is, in my opinion, much sleazier than someone pushing a martingale that he halfway believes might be responsible for his wins. I want to believe.

    But it's getting tougher....
    Weird. Just plain weird.

  15. #975
    I turn my attention to the once again weak, humiliated kew, who yet again has done EXACTLY as I predicted and has just not been able to stay away from reading and posting on a forum he swore he'd never post on again. And even after professing that his being a "man about town" in LV, he still can't add up that casino surveillance had no effect on the glaring antics of Kane and Nestor for nearly 3 months. Yet he claims the way I played the glitch would have gotten me "caught" right off the bat. What an idiot. If I were as weak as ineffective as that fairy I'd end the misery....end the absolute torture....and kill myself.

  16. #976
    A smart person wouldn't have commented at all on the questionable legality of the exploit. No reason to bring more attention to it. That implies two possibilities.

  17. #977
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    A smart person wouldn't have commented at all on the questionable legality of the exploit. No reason to bring more attention to it. That implies two possibilities.
    Irrelevant. A smart person understands commenting negatively about what others have done in no way affects what they have done. That's the same as implying anyone who agreed with Kane and Nestor's exploits brought attention to themselves--who did nothing. Let's hang Vegas Vic, who "brought attention" to this play.

    There's your two possibilities.

  18. #978
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    A smart person wouldn't have commented at all on the questionable legality of the exploit. No reason to bring more attention to it. That implies two possibilities.
    Irrelevant. A smart person understands commenting negatively about what others have done in no way affects what they have done. That's the same as implying anyone who agreed with Kane and Nestor's exploits brought attention to themselves--who did nothing. Let's hang Vegas Vic, who "brought attention" to this play.

    There's your two possibilities.

    We're in Reed Richards territory with that response.

    To quote a famous ESPN line, "C'mon, man."

    Thank God "Singer" didn't get on GWAE. Can you imagine him giving a response like that on air?

  19. #979
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I turn my attention to the once again weak, humiliated kew, who yet again has done EXACTLY as I predicted and has just not been able to stay away from reading and posting on a forum he swore he'd never post on again. And even after professing that his being a "man about town" in LV, he still can't add up that casino surveillance had no effect on the glaring antics of Kane and Nestor for nearly 3 months. Yet he claims the way I played the glitch would have gotten me "caught" right off the bat. What an idiot. If I were as weak as ineffective as that fairy I'd end the misery....end the absolute torture....and kill myself.
    GREAT Answer Rob. Caught in your own lie, you deflect and spew more hate. Suggesting I kill myself....nice touch. Always unable to get past your obsession with hate and bitterness. Tell us again how this is not really who you are but a mear "act".

    I never said surveillance would have caught you "right off the bat". But you wouldn't have gotten away with it for long without someone doing their job of which takes all of 5 seconds...certainly not 5 1/2 years.

    I am not going to keep fighting with you. I know you will keep this charade and all your deflections and hate rhetoric up until your dying days as you seek relevance that you no longer have. So I am not going to keep going back and forth with you. Instead I will just offer this 2 word message from your own mouth to anyone believing this load of crap... "wise up".

    Happy trails Rob....wallop in your hate and bitterness for your final days.

  20. #980
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by unowme View Post
    A smart person wouldn't have commented at all on the questionable legality of the exploit. No reason to bring more attention to it. That implies two possibilities.
    Irrelevant. A smart person understands commenting negatively about what others have done in no way affects what they have done. That's the same as implying anyone who agreed with Kane and Nestor's exploits brought attention to themselves--who did nothing. Let's hang Vegas Vic, who "brought attention" to this play.

    There's your two possibilities.
    The two possibilities I saw were:
    1. You weren't very smart about commenting in the exploit....admitting you thought it was illegal.
    2. You didn't really exploit the double up flaw.

    You claimed to have taken many extreme precautions like not even telling your family until years later. Yet you commented on the exploit admitting you thought it was fraud...right in the middle of your Statute of Limitations clock. That's not very smart.

    Of course there is a third possibility. That both 1 and 2 are true.

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