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Thread: Guidelines for AP play on Buffalo Diamond slots

  1. #141
    Then you need to meet up with other APs in real life. A lot of APs frown on publicly discussing play specifics on open forums. Sharing action is something that could be an option after you establish trusting relationships.

  2. #142
    Originally Posted by aplowroller View Post
    Tiki is 31 81 43 126 today.. I'm not looking to be a scout for money. Just to trade info or be able to take on bigger plays like $10 plus farmville, madonna bd.. I dont want to lose 5k on a play. My last $4 buffalo diamond took 565 spins to hit the first wheel... down $1600 before I could blink
    I was giving you the market rate assuming if you had money hire a “good” scout. Good scouts are not cheap.

    81 is still not a play in my neck of the woods.

  3. #143
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Then you need to meet up with other APs in real life. A lot of APs frown on publicly discussing play specifics on open forums. Sharing action is something that could be an option after you establish trusting relationships.
    This guy is not an AP, he is a scavenger. No harm when scavengers trade info when it already exists in public domain.

    For the record, I am not an AP but I am AP-grade and Apex scavenger in just about any casino I go to.

  4. #144
    Originally Posted by aplowroller View Post
    Trade some info... or trade for scouting service.. these forums are for advantage players a little bit of info exchange seems like it wouldn't be too much too ask. I have never seen 5 dragons rapid mentioned in a forum.. or say buffalo gold with the two progressives.. or many other slots that I play or know.
    There are a lot of games not mention for obvious reasons. Game is not in “your” market.

    https://www.aristocrat.com/apac/games/5-dragons-rapid/

    Game came out in 2018 (per YouTube videos); so it’s an old game. I did not prospect the game when it first showed up because this casino did not have loose slots.

    I give away plays via PMs to people I trust.

  5. #145
    Here is a good tweet on BD: https://mobile.twitter.com/PotatoAdv...34069249327106

    “ While I'd love for you to tell me what I have wrong, you still have a relatively small amount of data to pull from comparatively, so I'd question its accuracy. Also, if you tracked your data similar to Mickey, its inherently false since he combined 1x bonus spins into the base.”

  6. #146
    I dont know if you were speaking about me being a scavenger? I am trying to avoid games where you touch buttons.. I am mainly looking for info on buffalo diamond 2.50 or 4.00.
    So since no one is sharing and everyone wants to shit on me i will just say what I've played at $4.. 24 19 57... 565 spins until first wheel 36 25 59. Hit 2x paid 730 dollars lost 860

    4.00 20 19 36
    428 spins 28 29 40 hit green
    1133 in 515 bonus.. 618 loss

    I now have several thousand spins in at 1.60 and 0 spins at 2.50.. I figure 24 green with others off reset on 4.00 is a decent play..

    To ex ap I have read everything from.potato and mc on twitter in the past.. along with the edge, prozema and 20 others
    Last edited by aplowroller; 07-07-2020 at 10:32 PM.

  7. #147
    Originally Posted by aplowroller View Post
    I dont know if you were speaking about me being a scavenger? I am trying to avoid games where you touch buttons.. I am mainly looking for info on buffalo diamond 2.50 or 4.00.
    So since no one is sharing and everyone wants to shit on me i will just say what I've played at $4.. 24 19 57... 565 spins until first wheel. Hit 2x paid 730 dollars lost 860

    4.00 20 19 36
    428 spins 28 29 40 hit green
    1133 in 515 bonus.. 618 loss

    24
    1. You don’t have to touch button as there is sometimes a visual (e.g. free games banked on the bet deck), banked coins in GE, bubble in OMG, etc Especially the progressive jackpots that are plain to see.

    2. A scavenger is someone who needs to find abandoned “equity” to get a play positive. In contrast, an AP does not need abandoned equity to make money. In plain English, if you need to scavenge off the abandoned equity (whether you touch buttons or not), you are a scavenger not an AP.

    I am a scavenger and very proud of making money from abandoned equity; I don’t call myself an AP when I scavenge.

  8. #148
    Originally Posted by Ex-AP View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Then you need to meet up with other APs in real life. A lot of APs frown on publicly discussing play specifics on open forums. Sharing action is something that could be an option after you establish trusting relationships.
    This guy is not an AP, he is a scavenger. No harm when scavengers trade info when it already exists in public domain.

    For the record, I am not an AP but I am AP-grade and Apex scavenger in just about any casino I go to.
    Regardless of semantics on terminology it seems he's not understanding why he's not getting the answers he's looking for on open forums. If he has truly absorbed all publicly available info in his realm of interest then the next thing is to meet other people with the same interests. Usually though that will happen naturally during the pursuit of interest. It just seems a lot of people are looking for some kind of how to manual available publicly. Without realizing if such a thing existed that the opportunity would cease to exist or increased competition would render it useless.

  9. #149
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Regardless of semantics on terminology it seems he's not understanding why he's not getting the answers he's looking for on open forums. If he has truly absorbed all publicly available info in his realm of interest then the next thing is to meet other people with the same interests. Usually though that will happen naturally during the pursuit of interest. It just seems a lot of people are looking for some kind of how to manual available publicly. Without realizing if such a thing existed that the opportunity would cease to exist or increased competition would render it useless.
    1. It’s information asymmetry. The knowledgeable player, especially anal-retentive AP’s, can reverse engineer a slot and understand a particular bonus slot comes in different RTP’s. Even within the Vegas markets, the RTP’s are vast. My AP friends can quote chapter and verse from relevant Nevada or other Gaming regulations.

    2. The guy/gal didn’t understand a that a particular slot machine is 2-years-old and he thinks/acts like he was the only person to discover it. This “suggests” s/he is not current regarding the market conditions. In contrast, I am already prospecting the generation of bonus slots.

    3. S/he doesn’t know either the secret hand shake or official protocols for getting info via PMs et al. I’ve been responding to PMs for 20+ year and can spot someone I want to share info with.

    S/he has to drop a hint that will entice people to come to him/her. It is hard (from my view) whenever what is written is stale, been decontented a few times now, etc. Plus, the jury is out on Tiki.

    In summary, despite being not conversant, despite not knowing the argot (and associated lexicon), people will response if s/he had some bona fide nugget to start a private conversation.

  10. #150
    Originally Posted by Ex-AP View Post
    Here is a good tweet on BD: https://mobile.twitter.com/PotatoAdv...34069249327106

    “ While I'd love for you to tell me what I have wrong, you still have a relatively small amount of data to pull from comparatively, so I'd question its accuracy. Also, if you tracked your data similar to Mickey, its inherently false since he combined 1x bonus spins into the base.”
    The dude you quoted is a stone cold idiot. I made lots of money on the BD's using my own methods so fuck everybody else, especially idiots like you quoted. The 1X is a non target. To get the payback until you hit a target like 2X, 3X, 4X, you need to know:

    The payback for the regular spins PLUS the payback for the 1X free games.

    If you track them separately then you will add them together to get that payback percentage. So why should you track them separately when you are just going to add them together anyway? The answer is THERE IS NO NEED TO TRACK REGULAR SPINS AND 1X FREE GAMES SEPARATELY. Tracking them separately will yield the same answer as tracking them together. Anyone that tracks them separately is just lengthening the process and making things harder on themselves.

    So, ex-AP, your calling that tweet a "good tweet" is stooopppppiiiiiiidddddddd!!!!!!

    It calls into question your knowledge of analyzing games.

    AdvantagePotato is an idiot.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 07-08-2020 at 05:25 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  11. #151
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  12. #152
    Originally Posted by Ex-AP View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Then you need to meet up with other APs in real life. A lot of APs frown on publicly discussing play specifics on open forums. Sharing action is something that could be an option after you establish trusting relationships.
    This guy is not an AP, he is a scavenger. No harm when scavengers trade info when it already exists in public domain.

    For the record, I am not an AP but I am AP-grade and Apex scavenger in just about any casino I go to.
    "Advantage play" is nothing more than playing with an advantage. You are entitled to your erroneous opinion on what constitutes an advantage player but it doesn't mean you are correct.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  13. #153
    Originally Posted by Ex-AP View Post
    Originally Posted by aplowroller View Post
    I dont know if you were speaking about me being a scavenger? I am trying to avoid games where you touch buttons.. I am mainly looking for info on buffalo diamond 2.50 or 4.00.
    So since no one is sharing and everyone wants to shit on me i will just say what I've played at $4.. 24 19 57... 565 spins until first wheel. Hit 2x paid 730 dollars lost 860

    4.00 20 19 36
    428 spins 28 29 40 hit green
    1133 in 515 bonus.. 618 loss

    24
    1. You don’t have to touch button as there is sometimes a visual (e.g. free games banked on the bet deck), banked coins in GE, bubble in OMG, etc Especially the progressive jackpots that are plain to see.

    2. A scavenger is someone who needs to find abandoned “equity” to get a play positive. In contrast, an AP does not need abandoned equity to make money. In plain English, if you need to scavenge off the abandoned equity (whether you touch buttons or not), you are a scavenger not an AP.

    I am a scavenger and very proud of making money from abandoned equity; I don’t call myself an AP when I scavenge.
    This opinion on what constitutes advantage play is off base, misleading.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  14. #154
    I tracked the 75 level regular games plus 1X free spins on the Buffalo Diamonds and the result was 64.2%. I counted spins on each sample space and how many bets I got dropped for. The 1X free games were not tracked separately. I wanted to know the average cost to hit a target, i.e., 2X, 3X, 4X.

    But what if I had tracked the regular spins and 1X freespins separately? I would have to add them together to get the payback percentage/average cost. So what would it add up to? Why....it would add up to....get this....I'm not kidding....surprise.....surprise...IT WOULD ADD UP TO 64.2%!!!!!! THE EXACT SAME RESULT AS TRACKING THEM TOGETHER.

    What goofball can't see the obvious here. You can track them separately if you want to but you are just adding work to it and not getting a different result. This is simple shit.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 07-08-2020 at 08:03 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  15. #155
    Originally Posted by aplowroller View Post
    I've played at $4.. 24 19 57... 565 spins until first wheel
    I have my own stats for all four levels of Buffalo Diamond. Everything I discuss here I'm using my own stats. On the $4 level you are taking a huge drop between wheels, 60.72%. So the return is just 39.28% until you hit a wheel. That means extremely high variance.

    The wheel frequency is 126. So you went 565 spins to hit a wheel. That's about 4 and a half cycles which is a very infrequent occurrence. You got the shaft on that particular play.

    Would I have played a 24/19/57? Let's see

    24 X 1.49% = 35.76%
    19 X .87% = 16.53%
    57 X .18% = 10.26%
    Main Game = 39.28%
    ---------------------------
    Total 101.83%

    It's a marginal play at best. I would have to have some other incentive to play it or else I would prefer it to be a little higher.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  16. #156
    MC, a sincere thank you for giving information about gambling. I have been hovering in the bleachers for some time. Damn, thank you.

  17. #157
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    MC, a sincere thank you for giving information about gambling. I have been hovering in the bleachers for some time. Damn, thank you.
    Agreed 1000%. Mickey is an incredible resource and I’ve used his numbers to make good money. You don’t find many willing to share their math like Mickey did.

    I believe he is mostly staying in Montana but if he hits the road again, I know he will find more new games to beat.

    Either way, I hope he is healthy and happy, he is one of a kind.

  18. #158
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    MC, a sincere thank you for giving information about gambling. I have been hovering in the bleachers for some time. Damn, thank you.
    Agreed 1000%. Mickey is an incredible resource and I’ve used his numbers to make good money. You don’t find many willing to share their math like Mickey did.

    I believe he is mostly staying in Montana but if he hits the road again, I know he will find more new games to beat.

    Either way, I hope he is healthy and happy, he is one of a kind.

    Wow this is some gay-ass shit. Dickey Crimm has you under his influence.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  19. #159
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    MC, a sincere thank you for giving information about gambling. I have been hovering in the bleachers for some time. Damn, thank you.
    Agreed 1000%. Mickey is an incredible resource and I’ve used his numbers to make good money. You don’t find many willing to share their math like Mickey did.

    I believe he is mostly staying in Montana but if he hits the road again, I know he will find more new games to beat.

    Either way, I hope he is healthy and happy, he is one of a kind.
    Thanks Boz. I'm just about through with the bigger out-of-state casinos. To much walking involved and I get fatigued easily. The 20 machine bar/casinos in Montana are easy in/out. I hit them in spurts. I take a lot of time off but giving up the habit completely is hard to do. I get bored so go play machines. But just don't do a lot of walking.

    I'll put up my numbers on the Buffalo Diamond as I get the time.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #160
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Originally Posted by kuma View Post
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    That 3x is insane, just shows how volatile these are. I seen the 4x at 352 before.
    The stats are different for all 4 betting levels of the Buffalo Diamonds. I used the payback for regular spins/1X free games plus decimals I developed to get the paybacks for all possible configurations one might run into. So what about this Ozzy play here? It's a 12/217/53. This is what it looks like on paper if it were a 75 level play:

    12 X .0059 = 7.08%
    217 X .0019 = 41.23%
    53 X .0013 = 6.89%
    Base Game = 64.2%
    ---------------------------
    Total = 119.4%

    Since I'm going to play until I hit the 3X I can also add in the meter rate of 5.9%.

    So about a 125% play on the 75 level.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 07-09-2020 at 06:08 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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