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Thread: Guidelines for AP play on Buffalo Diamond slots

  1. #61
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Quote Rob dickweed:

    "jbjb is a vct forum hack with a low-paying service job who tries to impress. He posts big vp hits he gets on multi-play nickel & dime machines yet he says he wins millions."

    Hey you stupid asshat, my money comes from table games. I haven't had a "job" in nearly 20 years. Why? Because we CRUSH the casinos! Now fuck off back to that ugly hillbilly of a whore with the dried up cunt you're married to.

    My last post on this retarded site.
    Are we talking about the low-life that until recently polluted this site with his hate and bitterness until he saw some polls showing no one beleived any of his made up shit. That guy?

  2. #62
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Given what is known about BD can you guys even theorize how it could possibly not be a play?

    It sounds like the guy "knows something" but obviously the game is a play at times.
    The speed of the meters and the payback they bank make it exploitable. If the meters were super slow and the value of the bonus events were super low, the plays would develop less often (or never).

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Quote Rob dickweed:

    "jbjb is a vct forum hack with a low-paying service job who tries to impress. He posts big vp hits he gets on multi-play nickel & dime machines yet he says he wins millions."

    Hey you stupid asshat, my money comes from table games. I haven't had a "job" in nearly 20 years. Why? Because we CRUSH the casinos! Now fuck off back to that ugly hillbilly of a whore with the dried up cunt you're married to.

    My last post on this retarded site.
    Are we talking about the low-life that until recently polluted this site with his hate and bitterness until he saw some polls showing no one beleived any of his made up shit. That guy?
    Rob is in the Florida Keys. I spent a winter down there back in the eighties. Best spot in the country in the winter. Troll on, KJ.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  4. #64
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    My data is starting to look like higher bet levels are dropping the payback on the main reels. Not enough spins to make that a firm position, but that's what I'm thinking at the moment.
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Wow. Of all the people I've heard wonder about this (including me), nobody else bothered to just compare the listed pays at the different denominations.
    He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Prozema was implying that he thought the reel strips themselves in the main game were different at the higher bet levels. I don't believe that's the case. I think the difference in base game return is solely due to the extra money taken out to fund better bonuses.

  5. #65
    Originally Posted by acescracked_1210 View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    My data is starting to look like higher bet levels are dropping the payback on the main reels. Not enough spins to make that a firm position, but that's what I'm thinking at the moment.
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Wow. Of all the people I've heard wonder about this (including me), nobody else bothered to just compare the listed pays at the different denominations.
    He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Prozema was implying that he thought the reel strips themselves in the main game were different at the higher bet levels. I don't believe that's the case. I think the difference in base game return is solely due to the extra money taken out to fund better bonuses.
    I think he did think that. I thought the same thing and another slot player I spoke with did too.

    I wasn't being sarcastic, I think it's funny that AFAIK none of us bothered to just check the pay tables for the different denoms.

    (To be fair to myself BD is not a major interest of mine, but still...)

  6. #66
    Originally Posted by acescracked_1210 View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    My data is starting to look like higher bet levels are dropping the payback on the main reels. Not enough spins to make that a firm position, but that's what I'm thinking at the moment.
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Wow. Of all the people I've heard wonder about this (including me), nobody else bothered to just compare the listed pays at the different denominations.
    He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Prozema was implying that he thought the reel strips themselves in the main game were different at the higher bet levels. I don't believe that's the case. I think the difference in base game return is solely due to the extra money taken out to fund better bonuses.
    Where do you think the "extra" money comes from?

  7. #67
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by acescracked_1210 View Post

    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Wow. Of all the people I've heard wonder about this (including me), nobody else bothered to just compare the listed pays at the different denominations.
    He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Prozema was implying that he thought the reel strips themselves in the main game were different at the higher bet levels. I don't believe that's the case. I think the difference in base game return is solely due to the extra money taken out to fund better bonuses.
    Where do you think the "extra" money comes from?
    He's saying the paytable is worse the higher the denom.

  8. #68
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    My data is starting to look like higher bet levels are dropping the payback on the main reels. Not enough spins to make that a firm position, but that's what I'm thinking at the moment.
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by acescracked_1210 View Post

    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Wow. Of all the people I've heard wonder about this (including me), nobody else bothered to just compare the listed pays at the different denominations.
    He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Prozema was implying that he thought the reel strips themselves in the main game were different at the higher bet levels. I don't believe that's the case. I think the difference in base game return is solely due to the extra money taken out to fund better bonuses.
    Where do you think the "extra" money comes from?
    See post #59

  9. #69
    One could fairly easily map out reel strips without even going to the casino. This might be common knowledge, but you can slow down youtube to .25 speed. At .25 speed you can click pause/unpause and literally catch the reel spinning and write the thing down assuming it is a literal unchanging reel. The slow speed thing is useful for musicians trying to learn songs. Speeding up to 2x is useful when the youtube speaker needs to get it moving along.

    I'm not suggesting that it is useful to know the reel, but one could tell if it changes from A to B without a huge amount of effort.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  10. #70
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    One could fairly easily map out reel strips without even going to the casino. This might be common knowledge, but you can slow down youtube to .25 speed. At .25 speed you can click pause/unpause and literally catch the reel spinning and write the thing down assuming it is a literal unchanging reel. The slow speed thing is useful for musicians trying to learn songs. Speeding up to 2x is useful when the youtube speaker needs to get it moving along.

    I'm not suggesting that it is useful to know the reel, but one could tell if it changes from A to B without a huge amount of effort.
    Great idea, but I'm not certain that would work as a way of mapping the reels.

    Next time you're in a casino that has Buffalo Grand machines, (the ones with the 5-level uncapped progressives) take a couple minutes and watch one being played. Anytime 2 wheel symbols appear in the first 4 reels, the remaining reels "slow down" for dramatic effect. On these machines, they're slow enough that you can actually track the symbols in real time. Some squares think that by "stopping" the remaining reels when there's a wheel symbol appearing in one of them will get them to the bonus. It doesn't; the reels change instantly as soon as the button is pressed.

  11. #71
    Here's what I know about BD reel composition:

    Reel 1 has a disproportionate amount of kings, queens, jacks, and eagles.
    Reel 2 has a disproportionate amount of tens, aces, and elk. (especially in the bonus rounds)
    Reel 3 has a disproportionate amount of nines, tens, and wolves.
    Reel 4 has a disproportionate amount of tens
    Reel 5 has a disproportionate amount of all animal symbols. (especially buffalo.)

    It's impossible for more than one buffalo to appear in Reel 1.
    If you can manage to get a 10 in the first reel, you'll wind up with multiple 10 four-of-a-kinds a vast majority of the time. (but very rarely will you get a 10 five-of-a-kind, as there are very few 10's in the last reel.)

    This is only intended to be a partial list. I'm sure there's much more I'm missing.

  12. #72
    Acescracked_1210, are the pays worse as the denomination increases in the 2x/3x/4x rounds as well?

  13. #73
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Acescracked_1210, are the pays worse as the denomination increases in the 2x/3x/4x rounds as well?
    The bonus game and the base game use the same paytable for each respective denomination, but the reel strips in the bonus game are different. Not as many pays, which makes sense as that's how they compensate for the sunset symbols becoming multipliers.

  14. #74
    Originally Posted by acescracked_1210 View Post
    Here's what I know about BD reel composition:

    Reel 1 has a disproportionate amount of kings, queens, jacks, and eagles.
    Reel 2 has a disproportionate amount of tens, aces, and elk. (especially in the bonus rounds)
    Reel 3 has a disproportionate amount of nines, tens, and wolves.
    Reel 4 has a disproportionate amount of tens
    Reel 5 has a disproportionate amount of all animal symbols. (especially buffalo.)

    It's impossible for more than one buffalo to appear in Reel 1.
    If you can manage to get a 10 in the first reel, you'll wind up with multiple 10 four-of-a-kinds a vast majority of the time. (but very rarely will you get a 10 five-of-a-kind, as there are very few 10's in the last reel.)

    This is only intended to be a partial list. I'm sure there's much more I'm missing.
    I'm curious if you happen to have an estimation of how many symbols are on a reel ? I might play around with youtube and see what happens. Shhh don't tell anyone. "What'd you do?" "Well I watched youtube and counted the reels on the slot machines". I mean that is like some kind of autistic shit right there.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  15. #75
    It is obvious by the discussion here that not many have ever seen a real par sheet for a modern day electronic reel machine.

  16. #76
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    It is obvious by the discussion here that not many have ever seen a real par sheet for a modern day electronic reel machine.
    Nope. I've heard of them but never seen one. I should google them.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  17. #77
    Originally Posted by acescracked_1210 View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    My data is starting to look like higher bet levels are dropping the payback on the main reels. Not enough spins to make that a firm position, but that's what I'm thinking at the moment.
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Wow. Of all the people I've heard wonder about this (including me), nobody else bothered to just compare the listed pays at the different denominations.
    He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Prozema was implying that he thought the reel strips themselves in the main game were different at the higher bet levels. I don't believe that's the case. I think the difference in base game return is solely due to the extra money taken out to fund better bonuses.
    The 75 level returns more units in the freespins than the higher bets levels but the frequencies to get to the multipliers are longer. The overall return to player is about the same on all 4 bet levels but big differences in the configurations. The 75 and 160 levels are pretty close in configuration but the 250 and 400 levels are quite different; smaller main game returns, shorter frequencies on the multipliers but also lower returns in the freespins.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  18. #78
    Originally Posted by acescracked_1210 View Post
    Here's what I know about BD reel composition:

    Reel 1 has a disproportionate amount of kings, queens, jacks, and eagles.
    Reel 2 has a disproportionate amount of tens, aces, and elk. (especially in the bonus rounds)
    Reel 3 has a disproportionate amount of nines, tens, and wolves.
    Reel 4 has a disproportionate amount of tens
    Reel 5 has a disproportionate amount of all animal symbols. (especially buffalo.)

    It's impossible for more than one buffalo to appear in Reel 1.
    If you can manage to get a 10 in the first reel, you'll wind up with multiple 10 four-of-a-kinds a vast majority of the time. (but very rarely will you get a 10 five-of-a-kind, as there are very few 10's in the last reel.)

    This is only intended to be a partial list. I'm sure there's much more I'm missing.
    I have for sure noticed quite a lot of four of a kind 10's, at least from what I recall. So that makes sense.



    Slowing down the video and mapping the symbols could work. Just because stopping the reel instantly changes what's on there "right now" to whatever it's supposed to be doesn't mean you can't slow down the video and map it accurately. By stopping the reel early all you're doing is jumping forward. Granted, I don't know if what is being shown while the reel is spinning is an accurate representation of the actual reel odds. But these are two very different things (accurate representation vs stopping it early).
    #FreeTyde

  19. #79
    I like the decimal method for calculating plays. The decimals are derived by dividing the value of a freespin by the number of regular spins it takes to get it.

    For example, on the 75 level, the value of a 2X freespin is 3.337 units (based on 6K freespins).

    The frequency to get to the 2X is 565.56. This number comes from multiplying the number of regular games it takes to catch the wheel, 132.68, by the average number of wheel spins it takes to catch the 2X multiplier, 4.24. That works out to 565.56.

    3.337/565.5 = .0059 rounded.

    Decimal for 3X is .001943
    Decimal for 4X is .001295

    So say I run into this configuration 2X 33/3X 56/ 4X 102

    main game return is 64.2%
    2X meter speed is 5.536%
    The 3X and 4X meter speeds are not included because most of the time we are going to hit the 2X first then quit the play.
    We've got a 69.7% base game

    33 X .0059 = .1947
    56 X .001943 = .1088
    102 X .001295 = 13.2%
    Total 43.55%

    69.7 + 43.55 = 113.25%

    Keep in mind that even though it shows a big edge most of the time you are going to lose on this play because all of the edge is in the 4X. On a play like this you'll get a payday about every 11 or 12 plays if you can fade the losses in between.

    Thanks to Prozema for the database to work with.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #80
    deleted.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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