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Thread: Guidelines for AP play on Buffalo Diamond slots

  1. #221
    Many hustlers don't seem to know what good numbers are for the $4 bet. More plays for those of us who do.

  2. #222
    Is the average value of a banked spin (adjusted for the bet size) relatively consistent across all denominations? Or does it seem to vary significantly across bet levels? E.g. is a banked 4x spin worth more at say $0.75 or $4.00?

  3. #223
    I just abandoned tying the value of a banked spin based on the $1.60 bet level. I'm now modeling each separately. The 1.60 is just too far off.

  4. #224
    Question - if you're going after a play on either the 3x or 4x (or a combined play), don't the reset amounts factor into the meter rate? For example, if I'm chasing a 3x on the $0.75 bet level, then I'm expecting to hit about 4-5 2x wheels before the 3x hits. Each 2x hit after the first gives me a "free" 7 spins from reset, so that's 21-28 extra spins overall.

    I expect this has a bigger impact on the $4.00 level since every wheel is at least 2x, and the reset amounts are higher.

  5. #225
    Originally Posted by PlayerX View Post
    Question - if you're going after a play on either the 3x or 4x (or a combined play), don't the reset amounts factor into the meter rate? For example, if I'm chasing a 3x on the $0.75 bet level, then I'm expecting to hit about 4-5 2x wheels before the 3x hits. Each 2x hit after the first gives me a "free" 7 spins from reset, so that's 21-28 extra spins overall.

    I expect this has a bigger impact on the $4.00 level since every wheel is at least 2x, and the reset amounts are higher.
    The main game RTP will also have a huge impact on the $4.00 level compared to the others. You can't relate the stats on lower denoms to the $4.00 game.

  6. #226
    Originally Posted by kuma View Post
    Originally Posted by PlayerX View Post
    Question - if you're going after a play on either the 3x or 4x (or a combined play), don't the reset amounts factor into the meter rate? For example, if I'm chasing a 3x on the $0.75 bet level, then I'm expecting to hit about 4-5 2x wheels before the 3x hits. Each 2x hit after the first gives me a "free" 7 spins from reset, so that's 21-28 extra spins overall.

    I expect this has a bigger impact on the $4.00 level since every wheel is at least 2x, and the reset amounts are higher.
    The main game RTP will also have a huge impact on the $4.00 level compared to the others. You can't relate the stats on lower denoms to the $4.00 game.
    Sure - but while the numbers may be different for the $4.00 level (or any level), the main idea is that you'd still expect to hit multiple 2x wheels before you get the 3x/4x. I'm still going through the numbers from my own spins, but I assume that's true for every bet level. The only thing that changes is the exact frequency, so you may expect 5 wheels on $0.75, but only 2 or 3 at $4.00. Either way, each time you hit a 2x wheel during the play, the reset puts spins in the bank that you didn't get from a diamond on the reel.

  7. #227
    The increment is unrelated to the number of spins currently banked.
    - The current banked value is how much the spins are worth that are already there.
    - The increment is the value of the additional spins you will bank while you are playing the game.

    When I build slot models I use the number of games at reset times the value of each game into the RTP calculation. On longer plays (like chasing a 3x or a 4x) I will take 2x value and set it to reset regardless of what appears on the machine. If the game is negative with the 2x value at reset AND it is positive with the actual banked value of the 2x spins you have a combo that includes the 2x.

  8. #228
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    The increment is unrelated to the number of spins currently banked.
    - The current banked value is how much the spins are worth that are already there.
    - The increment is the value of the additional spins you will bank while you are playing the game.

    When I build slot models I use the number of games at reset times the value of each game into the RTP calculation. On longer plays (like chasing a 3x or a 4x) I will take 2x value and set it to reset regardless of what appears on the machine. If the game is negative with the 2x value at reset AND it is positive with the actual banked value of the 2x spins you have a combo that includes the 2x.
    Thank you Prozema! I knew the answer to the posters question was something like this but was a little frustrated with myself because I couldn’t quite wrap my head around it exactly.

  9. #229
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    The increment is unrelated to the number of spins currently banked.
    - The current banked value is how much the spins are worth that are already there.
    - The increment is the value of the additional spins you will bank while you are playing the game.

    When I build slot models I use the number of games at reset times the value of each game into the RTP calculation. On longer plays (like chasing a 3x or a 4x) I will take 2x value and set it to reset regardless of what appears on the machine. If the game is negative with the 2x value at reset AND it is positive with the actual banked value of the 2x spins you have a combo that includes the 2x.
    Thank you Prozema! I knew the answer to the posters question was something like this but was a little frustrated with myself because I couldn’t quite wrap my head around it exactly.
    I think the op is trying to say that he is trying to use the number of resets in his model for the increment. I'm not saying you can't do it that way but I think it's more difficult. I've never sweated getting the RTP exactly right and as a result I'm sure I've made some bonehead moves. I figure as long as I'm not way off and I'm right most of the time it will all wash out in the end. IMHO it's kinda like penalty cards in VP. If you have to sweat fractional pennies, the edge is too thin.

  10. #230
    Proz, just a quick thanks for all your work on this game and others you shared information on.

    Too often it becomes bickering on here but you showed you can stay above it and provide helpful information that can make people money. While a few others like Mickey have done the same, it’s rare.

    Just wanted to point that out. Have a Great Day and Thanksgiving!

  11. #231
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Proz, just a quick thanks for all your work on this game and others you shared information on.

    Too often it becomes bickering on here but you showed you can stay above it and provide helpful information that can make people money. While a few others like Mickey have done the same, it’s rare.

    Just wanted to point that out. Have a Great Day and Thanksgiving!
    Happy Thanksgiving Boz.

  12. #232
    Bumping this because I can't find any AP Slot threads on the front page...

    Has anyone felt out the new wheel of fortunes with the changing multipliers on top of the reels? I've started testing them out when I can get an average of 4x or more on the next y multipliers (e.g. if the next three are 2x 3x 10x, that's an average of 5x, so I play the next three spins), but I don't have much of a sample yet.

  13. #233
    Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    but I don't have much of a sample yet.
    More sample data:


  14. #234
    I dont know if this thread is dead or not, but was enjoyable to read everyone experience. I finally got to try this game. Wow is it volatile. Lost all my money. In my first session, I got regular free spins twice and 4 coins (won nothing) and the 2x free spins once. The 2x only made like $20. In my second session, at min bet I spun over 500 times and no bonus. I am not sure this is actually an AP game especially when the free spins at min bet don't guarantee one of the 3 multiplier spin. It could be a good candidate for someone who is trying increase their coin in/ou and have a good bankroll and want go through this. Unfortunately this game is not for me.

  15. #235
    It's fun watching the locals sit and hawk this game all day waiting for a play.

  16. #236
    From just looking at the video it looks like a big multiplier in the 4th column might be a key play.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  17. #237
    The ones that I have seen operate basically the same way as Golden Egypt with $ symbols replacing coins.

    Preliminarily, I'm taking the first three or any four of five. I might try to watch and collect some data on these, but for the time being, I tend to think this is positive and essentially amounts to a partial free roll on the wheel in this configuration. I could be wrong, of course. Those are my results---but it's a small sample size and I could just be, "Running well," on my wheel hit frequency. I did hit Free Games on the wheel and that paid a good bit, but even throwing it out of the data set, I'd still be ahead playing these configurations by about 25% of my wheel results. The wheel on this game is very frequent, but can return as low as 5x your bet amount.

    Do what you want, but please don't consider this post as advice to play in any way. My sample size is too small to be confident of these play points, or that any configuration (other than reels already being wild, obviously) is even positive at all and I would need much more spin data to be sure. Perhaps I'll watch someone play one of these days, but I don't get to this particular casino often and it's not high on my list of priorities.

  18. #238
    There are two different wof4d perpetual features out there.

  19. #239
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    There are two different wof4d perpetual features out there.
    I know, but I've only played the one conceptually similar to Egypt. I haven't even seen the other one live yet.

  20. #240
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    From just looking at the video it looks like a big multiplier in the 4th column might be a key play.
    the column number doesn't make a difference. You are looking for big multipliers. For one spin if i see a 7x or more I am playing it. For multiple spins I would probably need two multipliers above 12 and I would play until I hit one or I would need the total of all the multipliers to be above 25. Just my early take on the game, I could be wrong.

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