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Thread: Horse Racing Angles

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    While I am not a Baffert apologist, there are a lot of issues on this "drugging" that will never be solved. The best defense is always the claim that it was environmental contamination (in this case jimson weed), as it is hard to prove otherwise. I don't believe this case will go anywhere.
    Agree Regnis....the horse ran in 3 different jurisdictions outside of SA...if he was drugged up, someone would have caught it....if Santa Anita hid the test findings tho, he should have never been allowed to go to the Derby in my opinion

  2. #42
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    While I am not a Baffert apologist, there are a lot of issues on this "drugging" that will never be solved. The best defense is always the claim that it was environmental contamination (in this case jimson weed), as it is hard to prove otherwise. I don't believe this case will go anywhere.


    ..............................................



    you might be right, but apparently they allow for a certain amount of the drug to be in the system as a result of environmental contamination
    but the NYT story stated that there was 4 times the allowable amount - that might be hard to defend


    from the drf.com article:

    "The New York Times stated that the concentration of the substance found in Justify’s sample was 300 nanograms per milliliter. Racing commissions consider a concentration above 75 nanograms as a positive, so that concentration would have triggered additional testing and a regulatory complaint. "


    the underlying issue, of course, is if they did nothing, to justify doing nothing they will need the public's trust


    and no effing way racetrack management can generate trust from the betting public or the non betting public




    https://www.drf.com/news/california-...ify-test?type=

    "
    Of course what I'm saying is true. I saw it ON THE INTERNET.

  3. #43
    .................................................



    the links are a story about Baffert having 7 of his horses die from November 2011 to March 2013


    https://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/...effect-part-1/


    https://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/...effect-part-2/
    Of course what I'm saying is true. I saw it ON THE INTERNET.

  4. #44
    Since I left this place voluntarily, it became an endless comical gift to stop in here and read what presently takes place. When someone as pathetic as Tasha becomes any site’s main poster; there is no need to explain … I rest my case.

    I felt I had to comment after reading this thread, since I do consider myself well informed when it comes to thoughbred horse racing. Especially when it comes to New York and surrounding tracks.

    Owners, trainers, jockeys, agents, vets, all play different parts trying to achieve the same objective of making a living off the backs of horses. That’s a lot of families to feed.

    Horse racing especially on the east coast / New York has evolved into one of the most crooked, back stabbing, group of people all the way from the horse shit cleaners to the people in the winner’s circles. This includes NYRA, training timers, etc. etc. The list is endless and sad.

    Handicapping top of the line horses from 2-year olds to top of the line derby type races is about the only chance you have of getting close to running to known form information. The problem is there aren’t enough of those top of the line horses and races to even consider trying to make a steady profit on year-round.

    95% of most of all the rest of the races throughout the year are loaded with unknowns. Drugs, back stabbing, endless experimentation and research is endlessly going on to get an edge.

    It could cost a horse owner upwards of 35K a year just to train, feed, stall in New York. When combined with the purchase price it gets very expensive real fast. Without hitting the pay board often, you better have deep pockets, and I could assure you most owners are broken down shoe bullshit artist wannabes.

    I’ve seen and was part of the daily endless hanky panky horse racing owners game for a decade.

    The planning, scamming, detouring, cheating, back stabbing, taking place before any race is more important to know than the actual horse’s real condition.
    Of course, over time drug testing for horses has evolved, but don’t think for one second the search for new cheating research will ever end. The Oscar drugging days of claiming mules then winning cheap stake races with the same horses weeks later is for sure over.

    I can’t even recall how many races I know about where the trainer is using a race for nothing more than a prep race for the following week with no intentions of even trying to win. The jockeys are given precise instructions and abide. How many of the smart guys were betting on that horse to hit the board?

    I should start a thread and enter different facts I witnessed in the horse racing game. I could only imagine when considering all the people involved what really goes on.

    I can’t say for sure what goes on with the high end 5% of the horses but, I wouldn’t doubt anything I heard.

    A race horse usually has 3 to 5 years to prove its investment value. Trust me, whatever it takes in such a short period of time to achieve a profit will be done, even if it means risking the horse’s life.

    Oh yea, no matter what you handicappers think or say, the people really involved aren’t even reading or listening, and couldn’t care less.

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Since I left this place voluntarily, it became an endless comical gift to stop in here and read what presently takes place. When someone as pathetic as Tasha becomes any siteís main poster; there is no need to explain Ö I rest my case.

    I felt I had to comment after reading this thread, since I do consider myself well informed when it comes to thoughbred horse racing. Especially when it comes to New York and surrounding tracks.

    Owners, trainers, jockeys, agents, vets, all play different parts trying to achieve the same objective of making a living off the backs of horses. Thatís a lot of families to feed.

    Horse racing especially on the east coast / New York has evolved into one of the most crooked, back stabbing, group of people all the way from the horse shit cleaners to the people in the winnerís circles. This includes NYRA, training timers, etc. etc. The list is endless and sad.

    Handicapping top of the line horses from 2-year olds to top of the line derby type races is about the only chance you have of getting close to running to known form information. The problem is there arenít enough of those top of the line horses and races to even consider trying to make a steady profit on year-round.

    95% of most of all the rest of the races throughout the year are loaded with unknowns. Drugs, back stabbing, endless experimentation and research is endlessly going on to get an edge.

    It could cost a horse owner upwards of 35K a year just to train, feed, stall in New York. When combined with the purchase price it gets very expensive real fast. Without hitting the pay board often, you better have deep pockets, and I could assure you most owners are broken down shoe bullshit artist wannabes.

    Iíve seen and was part of the daily endless hanky panky horse racing owners game for a decade.

    The planning, scamming, detouring, cheating, back stabbing, taking place before any race is more important to know than the actual horseís real condition.
    Of course, over time drug testing for horses has evolved, but donít think for one second the search for new cheating research will ever end. The Oscar drugging days of claiming mules then winning cheap stake races with the same horses weeks later is for sure over.

    I canít even recall how many races I know about where the trainer is using a race for nothing more than a prep race for the following week with no intentions of even trying to win. The jockeys are given precise instructions and abide. How many of the smart guys were betting on that horse to hit the board?

    I should start a thread and enter different facts I witnessed in the horse racing game. I could only imagine when considering all the people involved what really goes on.

    I canít say for sure what goes on with the high end 5% of the horses but, I wouldnít doubt anything I heard.

    A race horse usually has 3 to 5 years to prove its investment value. Trust me, whatever it takes in such a short period of time to achieve a profit will be done, even if it means risking the horseís life.

    Oh yea, no matter what you handicappers think or say, the people really involved arenít even reading or listening, and couldnít care less.

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Since I left this place voluntarily, it became an endless comical gift to stop in here and read what presently takes place. When someone as pathetic as Tasha becomes any siteís main poster; there is no need to explain Ö I rest my case.

    I felt I had to comment after reading this thread, since I do consider myself well informed when it comes to thoughbred horse racing. Especially when it comes to New York and surrounding tracks.

    Owners, trainers, jockeys, agents, vets, all play different parts trying to achieve the same objective of making a living off the backs of horses. Thatís a lot of families to feed.

    Horse racing especially on the east coast / New York has evolved into one of the most crooked, back stabbing, group of people all the way from the horse shit cleaners to the people in the winnerís circles. This includes NYRA, training timers, etc. etc. The list is endless and sad.

    Handicapping top of the line horses from 2-year olds to top of the line derby type races is about the only chance you have of getting close to running to known form information. The problem is there arenít enough of those top of the line horses and races to even consider trying to make a steady profit on year-round.

    95% of most of all the rest of the races throughout the year are loaded with unknowns. Drugs, back stabbing, endless experimentation and research is endlessly going on to get an edge.

    It could cost a horse owner upwards of 35K a year just to train, feed, stall in New York. When combined with the purchase price it gets very expensive real fast. Without hitting the pay board often, you better have deep pockets, and I could assure you most owners are broken down shoe bullshit artist wannabes.

    Iíve seen and was part of the daily endless hanky panky horse racing owners game for a decade.

    The planning, scamming, detouring, cheating, back stabbing, taking place before any race is more important to know than the actual horseís real condition.
    Of course, over time drug testing for horses has evolved, but donít think for one second the search for new cheating research will ever end. The Oscar drugging days of claiming mules then winning cheap stake races with the same horses weeks later is for sure over.

    I canít even recall how many races I know about where the trainer is using a race for nothing more than a prep race for the following week with no intentions of even trying to win. The jockeys are given precise instructions and abide. How many of the smart guys were betting on that horse to hit the board?

    I should start a thread and enter different facts I witnessed in the horse racing game. I could only imagine when considering all the people involved what really goes on.

    I canít say for sure what goes on with the high end 5% of the horses but, I wouldnít doubt anything I heard.

    A race horse usually has 3 to 5 years to prove its investment value. Trust me, whatever it takes in such a short period of time to achieve a profit will be done, even if it means risking the horseís life.

    Oh yea, no matter what you handicappers think or say, the people really involved arenít even reading or listening, and couldnít care less.
    Interesting....start that thread if you get a chance

  7. #47
    .................................................. ............




    I do agree that if you're betting seriously you definitely need to consider whether or not the horse is "well meant" - going to be trying hard to win




    for me, I know the only chance I have to come out of it well is to cherry pick

    betting every race or even half the races on a card - I'm going to get crushed - real quick




    what Blackstone says is true - the powers that be don't care what the cappers say


    the other side of the coin is that bettors are going to bet almost no matter what - the ones griping the most I think just like to gripe - they don't really care - they're addicts
    Last edited by Half Smoke; 09-13-2019 at 08:13 AM.
    Of course what I'm saying is true. I saw it ON THE INTERNET.

  8. #48
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Since I left this place voluntarily, it became an endless comical gift to stop in here and read what presently takes place. When someone as pathetic as Tasha becomes any site’s main poster; there is no need to explain … I rest my case.

    I felt I had to comment after reading this thread, since I do consider myself well informed when it comes to thoughbred horse racing. Especially when it comes to New York and surrounding tracks.

    Owners, trainers, jockeys, agents, vets, all play different parts trying to achieve the same objective of making a living off the backs of horses. That’s a lot of families to feed.

    Horse racing especially on the east coast / New York has evolved into one of the most crooked, back stabbing, group of people all the way from the horse shit cleaners to the people in the winner’s circles. This includes NYRA, training timers, etc. etc. The list is endless and sad.

    Handicapping top of the line horses from 2-year olds to top of the line derby type races is about the only chance you have of getting close to running to known form information. The problem is there aren’t enough of those top of the line horses and races to even consider trying to make a steady profit on year-round.

    95% of most of all the rest of the races throughout the year are loaded with unknowns. Drugs, back stabbing, endless experimentation and research is endlessly going on to get an edge.

    It could cost a horse owner upwards of 35K a year just to train, feed, stall in New York. When combined with the purchase price it gets very expensive real fast. Without hitting the pay board often, you better have deep pockets, and I could assure you most owners are broken down shoe bullshit artist wannabes.

    I’ve seen and was part of the daily endless hanky panky horse racing owners game for a decade.

    The planning, scamming, detouring, cheating, back stabbing, taking place before any race is more important to know than the actual horse’s real condition.
    Of course, over time drug testing for horses has evolved, but don’t think for one second the search for new cheating research will ever end. The Oscar drugging days of claiming mules then winning cheap stake races with the same horses weeks later is for sure over.

    I can’t even recall how many races I know about where the trainer is using a race for nothing more than a prep race for the following week with no intentions of even trying to win. The jockeys are given precise instructions and abide. How many of the smart guys were betting on that horse to hit the board?

    I should start a thread and enter different facts I witnessed in the horse racing game. I could only imagine when considering all the people involved what really goes on.

    I can’t say for sure what goes on with the high end 5% of the horses but, I wouldn’t doubt anything I heard.

    A race horse usually has 3 to 5 years to prove its investment value. Trust me, whatever it takes in such a short period of time to achieve a profit will be done, even if it means risking the horse’s life.

    Oh yea, no matter what you handicappers think or say, the people really involved aren’t even reading or listening, and couldn’t care less.
    Interesting....start that thread if you get a chance
    That would be a great thread. There are endless stories and scams.

    We used to follow an assistant trainer around. If the horse wasn't live she would bet a few bucks for entertainment. If the horse was live she had pockets full of money to bet. We actually had a team following her to different levels at the track.

    Many years ago the last race trifecta was fixed every night at the trotters. We had a spot at the track where we would wait for the guy to give us the numbers. By the time this scam ended there used to be 20 guys hanging around waiting for the numbers and the trifecta wouldn't pay anything anyway. Too many guys that couldn't keep their mouths shut.

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    That would be a great thread. There are endless stories and scams.

    We used to follow an assistant trainer around. If the horse wasn't live she would bet a few bucks for entertainment. If the horse was live she had pockets full of money to bet. We actually had a team following her to different levels at the track.

    Many years ago the last race trifecta was fixed every night at the trotters. We had a spot at the track where we would wait for the guy to give us the numbers. By the time this scam ended there used to be 20 guys hanging around waiting for the numbers and the trifecta wouldn't pay anything anyway. Too many guys that couldn't keep their mouths shut.
    These types of examples you used showing a way to gain a gambling edge on horse racing obviously, was meant as a joke. Imagine a team of gamblers following an assistant trainer around waiting for the wink and nod. Then, even for trotters to suggest a race was fixed every night for the sure thing triple is absurd. Waiting for the guy and the winning numbers at a special spot every night adds color to the story. These are stories.

    I'm talking about actual no questions asked facts.

  10. #50
    Black-you are the best. I still think you have an idea for an interesting thread. But of course, in true Black fashion, only your "facts" are true.

    You have no idea the money that was made just by following the assistant trainer. When she bet the trainer's horse, it won. Period. No questions. It was worth having a team follow her for three or four minutes before each race in which the trainer had an entry. And she did go floor to floor so that the big mouth tellers didn't get wise.

    And don't be naive. The last race trifecta was a mob race and I dealt craps for one of the principals. I told one other person about the play, and that was one too many as it seems that everyone told someone else and we destroyed the advantage. It was comical to see all the lurkers around the designated spot pretending that they weren't waiting for the info. So don't for a minute think that the race was not fixed--you can't be that naive.

  11. #51
    Keystone--earlier in this thread somewhere you had liked Raging Bull in a race. In case you may not follow Woodbine, Raging Bull is in the Woodbine Mile. I still he he prefers longer but just a heads up if you were trying to follow him.

  12. #52
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    So don't for a minute think that the race was not fixed--you can't be that naive.
    To even suggest I'm being naive about a horse race result after what I wrote in my above post, puts your credibility into check.

    Your type of stories fall into the bullshit category. There a dime a dozen and spread all over every track where horse racing and betting exists.

    For owners, cashing big winning tickets is half the game of survival. In fact it's consider expected supplementary income. This doesn't mean every race is being run with expected results. But, a great deal of effort is put into getting certain horses across the wire at a big price for private consumption. These races could involve a fair amount of collusion with others. If you spend any time at a racetrack you could find a tip on every horse in every race somewhere. Many phony tips are put out there to keep betters off their winners. Serious bets are not even bet at the track.

    Horse racing is so much more then what meets the eye. Humans can't help but be humans. (especially if money could be manipulated.)

  13. #53
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    Keystone--earlier in this thread somewhere you had liked Raging Bull in a race. In case you may not follow Woodbine, Raging Bull is in the Woodbine Mile. I still he he prefers longer but just a heads up if you were trying to follow him.
    Thx Regnis...just saw this but yeah I knew he ran, but didn’t bet...Woodbine is a track I never wager on

  14. #54
    .....................................





    just won a bet on Pee Wee Reese - Santa Anita race 6 - 5 furlongs turf
    he went off at 5/2 and Eddie Haskell went off at 9/5


    there's no way Eddies should have been lower odds - Pee Wee in his last race at 6.5 was just .11 off the track record - his split for 4 was 42.85 - you almost never see horse go under 43 for 4 and 21.15 for 2

    blazing, supersonic speed

    there's no way Eddie was going to be able to keep up with him if they both bring their A game

    5/2 is not boxcars but you can find mispricings if you pay attention - although usually I can figure out why on the mispricing - here I have no effing idea why

    the only thing I can figure is Eddie's last race was a graded stakes but Pee Wee has that in his history too - BS to think he had an edge over Pee Wee because of that





    Name:  Rpcyb9X.jpg
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    Last edited by Half Smoke; 09-27-2019 at 03:14 PM.
    Of course what I'm saying is true. I saw it ON THE INTERNET.

  15. #55
    All of a sudden there is concern about the 34th racehorse that died at S. Anita. Earlier this year New York lost 10 racehorses in 9 days. The true numbers are being masked across the country by racing bodies trying to protect the industry. The real number is staggering. Itís not like the DOJ or the FBI are doing the investigation.

    Many horses break down surprisingly unexpected with good reason. It legitimately happens often. But most are breaking down as a result of drug use combined while training. Training is where and when all the drug experimentation is being done. Owners donít need to spend 30 to 50 K a year to have a pet. If owners are unable to rid a bad investment, theyíll volunteer it to become an experimental crash dummy.

    They act like this is something new. The true story is being hidden. Similar to what the swamp socialists are trying to do in politics today. Hide the real facts, and in this case from the horse racing bettors.

    Itís been much worse in the past, but suddenly the sensitive snowflakes are concerned.

  16. #56
    A quick inside horse racing story.

    A trainer is training 5 horses owned by 2 partners. The horses are classy and run in some stake races and many of the daily featured races in New York, Saratoga, and Florida.

    One of the partners decided he didn’t like the trainer and wanted to move the horses to another stable. The other wanted to stay with our trainer. So, the owner that wanted to stay decided to buy the other partner out who was leaving with 2 of the horses. The deal is going to closing the following week.

    Meantime, one of the real good horses staying in the stable was entered in a race while they were waiting to close. This meant any proceeds from the race (if any) would still be split.

    The trainer disliked the partner leaving so much, he made sure the horse would not win in collusion with his favorite jockey who rode it. He came in 6th by 5 lengths while the public bet him down to the chalk favorite.

    Imagine the poor slick handicappers who had the favorite tied into all the different betting pools the race offered. OOOOOPS

    The following week the horse won and paid $9.00 dollars.

  17. #57

  18. #58
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    All of a sudden there is concern about the 34th racehorse that died at S. Anita. Earlier this year New York lost 10 racehorses in 9 days. The true numbers are being masked across the country by racing bodies trying to protect the industry. The real number is staggering. Itís not like the DOJ or the FBI are doing the investigation.

    Many horses break down surprisingly unexpected with good reason. It legitimately happens often. But most are breaking down as a result of drug use combined while training. Training is where and when all the drug experimentation is being done. Owners donít need to spend 30 to 50 K a year to have a pet. If owners are unable to rid a bad investment, theyíll volunteer it to become an experimental crash dummy.

    They act like this is something new. The true story is being hidden. Similar to what the swamp socialists are trying to do in politics today. Hide the real facts, and in this case from the horse racing bettors.

    Itís been much worse in the past, but suddenly the sensitive snowflakes are concerned.
    Agree with pretty much everything here...however, if a horse breaks down during the Breeders Cup on national TV, all the bleeding hearts and weirdos will be calling for Santa Anitaís scalp....they might get it too

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