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Thread: $2 FullPay dueces downtown

  1. #181
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    I make mistakes when I try to play to fast.
    For me, at least on one particular type of machine, the fastest speed just throws my eyes off completely. I can process the cards that are dealt faster (overall) on the second-fastest speed, even though they come out more slowly. I think BECAUSE they come out more slowly.

    The fastest speed is like the first couple cards come out, and that's fine, but then the last few spit out and my vision just jumps back to the left, when I try to put my eyes back where they should be, I briefly see two images. I'm not dyslexic and actually read much faster than many people can. It's just something that the images do that screws me up. I also haven't been able to replicate this problem on anything except video poker.

  2. #182
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.
    This discussion sort of mirrors a major point I have been making in the blackjack count debates for years. Error rate, or more precisely higher error rate associated with certain activates like playing too fast or in the case of the blackjack debates, using a higher, even slightly more taxing count.

    In the blackjack debates, proponents of a higher, more complicated count (even if only slightly more complicated) want to count the benefit of any counts like a slight increase in win rate, while completely ignoring any negatives like a higher error rate. Only accepting the good and ignoring the bad or negatives.

    And it is the same thing with VP play speed. There HAS to be a higher error rate with playing faster, or in the case of blackjack using even a slightly more difficult count. There HAS TO BE! Proponents just don't want to accept that. But we are human beings. If you could video tape play, both VP play and blackjack play, I could prove this fact, but without doing that I am just getting a lot of guys that say, "oh no not me. I can play as fast as I want or a much tougher count just as efficiently." Hog wash!

  3. #183
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.
    This discussion sort of mirrors a major point I have been making in the blackjack count debates for years. Error rate, or more precisely higher error rate associated with certain activates like playing too fast or in the case of the blackjack debates, using a higher, even slightly more taxing count.

    In the blackjack debates, proponents of a higher, more complicated count (even if only slightly more complicated) want to count the benefit of any counts like a slight increase in win rate, while completely ignoring any negatives like a higher error rate. Only accepting the good and ignoring the bad or negatives.

    And it is the same thing with VP play speed. There HAS to be a higher error rate with playing faster, or in the case of blackjack using even a slightly more difficult count. There HAS TO BE! Proponents just don't want to accept that. But we are human beings. If you could video tape play, both VP play and blackjack play, I could prove this fact, but without doing that I am just getting a lot of guys that say, "oh no not me. I can play as fast as I want or a much tougher count just as efficiently." Hog wash!
    There is. I'm with you on this one. I've missed TWO royals- one, because the card didn't register when I could swear I tapped it and another from hitting the play button too fast after realizing I made the wrong choice. Not to mention other hands. Also, since we just finished the double up feature discussion, I lost $800 by accidentally hitting that feature, then getting in too big a hurry and hitting yes on the are you sure question. When I realized my mistake, the host said I had to play it out. Then, I've had a machine pick a card (glitch) I didn't choose and ruin the hand. PLUS, I have several times won hands that were huge by luckily changing picks at the last second before I made a bad play. And finally, a not so obvious choice that sometimes changes a selection.

  4. #184
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.
    This discussion sort of mirrors a major point I have been making in the blackjack count debates for years. Error rate, or more precisely higher error rate associated with certain activates like playing too fast or in the case of the blackjack debates, using a higher, even slightly more taxing count.

    In the blackjack debates, proponents of a higher, more complicated count (even if only slightly more complicated) want to count the benefit of any counts like a slight increase in win rate, while completely ignoring any negatives like a higher error rate. Only accepting the good and ignoring the bad or negatives.

    And it is the same thing with VP play speed. There HAS to be a higher error rate with playing faster, or in the case of blackjack using even a slightly more difficult count. There HAS TO BE! Proponents just don't want to accept that. But we are human beings. If you could video tape play, both VP play and blackjack play, I could prove this fact, but without doing that I am just getting a lot of guys that say, "oh no not me. I can play as fast as I want or a much tougher count just as efficiently." Hog wash!
    Generally kew, vp players who are infatuated with speed being a major key will say "error rates are small enough to render them almost insignificant". What they neglect to say is that's mostly true only for the first hour of play. Error rates increase exponentially from there. Speedy play is an overrated concept unless it is fully understood.

    This is why it's important not to get caught up in this "speed" thing. Each player knows or at least should know their own comfort zone. They should know when to slow down some, know when to take a good break, and know when too much is too much. Just like the old stereo system power amps of yesteryear that used more power to make up for inefficiencies vs. the ones of today that use much less power because they now incorporate greater efficiency, players should understand their most efficient balance.

  5. #185
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Speed at a VP machine can help or hurt you, depending on how long you stay on without taking adequate breaks in order to get another fresh start. People like to think that accuracy doesn't take a hit after the first hour, but it does. Just how significant it is will always be argued about.

    I've always wondered about the speed aspect of playing +EV vp. So when the Reserve opened in the late '90's and had lots of positive games along with turbo speed settings, I asked a local friend to monitor me as I played "fast" on one of the speedy machines at the Monkey Bar (which is still there under a different name but still has the monkeys etched under the bar).

    I wanted to do a two hour test. She (an AP on a vp team at the time) logged any hold mistakes I made. After the 1st hour I made 11 hold errors. No telling if she made any mistakes either way or not, but she did identify that one of my "errors" resulted in a FH, for whatever that's worth. As for me, I was mentally exhausted after the first hour and decided not to go on. I booked 1400 hph, which seems slow compared to the very dubious reports of people supposedly doing 2000-3000 hph.

    If you're comfortable playing at an 800 or 1000 clip, then there's nothing wrong with going with that. I'm not playing for income any more and I certainly wasn't looking for speed from '04 - '09, so I'm comfortable with 500 hph. Everyone has a point at which accuracy is overtaken by speed. And time always takes over both.
    when the reserve first opened they had a bank of full pay Deuces Wild on the $5 Denominations. I played them for as long as they were available but I can't remember exactly how long they lasted, it wasn't very long.
    They had a $5 full pay Deuces Wild in Lake Tahoe 4 quite a while, I rarely seen anybody else playing it. I can't remember if it was at Harvey's or Harrah's. I do believe it was at Harveys. The host was Comping the s*** out of me including a 20% rebate on any daily losses. The comps were good at the gift shop where you could buy gold, watches and other jewelry. If and when I want to buy stuff at the mall They would come that stuff off as well, within reason of course. They took care of all of your airfare, send limos to and from the airport and everything. I still have some limited edition hand-numbered Walt Disney watches I got from the gift shop. I certainly wish I still had the gold chains. They also had the plus EV Williams Blackjack machines at a few different locations in Reno and Tahoe. I enjoyed those much more than I did the Deuces Wild you can let it ride up into the thousands of dollars in which I did on occasions. I regret not taking much more advantage of the situation at the time. Then again, that could have got me 86ed and I wouldn't have been making money on other things I was doing. The way I did it I never had any heat and they treated me well even after the play was over.

  6. #186
    Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
    This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.

  7. #187
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
    This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.
    What tips did you give me? What year was it?
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  8. #188
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
    This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.
    What tips did you give me? What year was it?
    In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  9. #189
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
    This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.
    What tips did you give me? What year was it?
    In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?
    Wasn't the Belle and Edgewater either a half a percent or 1% cash back? I can't really remember what the card was anymore. I do know they had point multipliers, drawings and other promotions where you could play full pay deuces. Now that these stingy casinos have chopped up all the VP pay tables I have no clue why the hell they won't GIVE 1 -2 % cash back on the card to their players. Especially the slot players. I would do everything I could to get more people in the door playing longer. I have to believe that someone getting back a nice chunk of money at the end of their trip is more likely to go back to that location next time they visit.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 08-09-2019 at 03:40 AM.

  10. #190
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
    This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.
    What tips did you give me? What year was it?
    In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?
    Clue....I'm pretty sure Piggy Banker has more BULLSHIT than a rodeo.

  11. #191
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    What tips did you give me? What year was it?
    In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?
    Clue....I'm pretty sure Piggy Banker has more BULLSHIT than a rodeo.
    are you enjoying your 7-Day suspension from Wizard of Vegas?������

  12. #192
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?
    Clue....I'm pretty sure Piggy Banker has more BULLSHIT than a rodeo.
    are you enjoying your 7-Day suspension from Wizard of Vegas?������
    Pretty much. I might not even return to that commie infested joint.

  13. #193
    In 2000 the Atlantis had two $100 machines, coin-in of course, that I played 10/6 ddbp on twice. They also had 10/7 dbp, FPDW and others on them. On my second visit all games were still there on both except FPDW.

    A suspension from WoV is a laugh. My first one was for writing "WTF" in response to a wizard post I didn't agree with. They're such sensitive little liberal sissies over there. I really do believe several of those moderators who can't get real jobs, actually run off to their "safe rooms" and whimper for 5-10 minutes after reading an "offensive" post before coming back and making believe they've got their acts together.

  14. #194
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.
    C'mon, Pig Shit. Name some games you taught me. Then explain why twenty years later you're on this site asking me to provide you with playable numbers. You can't figure that shit out for yourself but you want everyone to believe you taught me something. And 20 years later you're still having to play deuces? Fuck off, bitch.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  15. #195
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.
    C'mon, Pig Shit. Name some games you taught me. Then explain why twenty years later you're on this site asking me to provide you with playable numbers. You can't figure that shit out for yourself but you want everyone to believe you taught me something. And 20 years later you're still having to play deuces? Fuck off, bitch.
    DING DING DING,,,,,,if bullshit was pig shit, a Smithfield farm operation couldn't keep up with this PIGGY BANKER dude.....lol
    Last edited by MaxPen; 08-09-2019 at 05:55 PM.

  16. #196
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    What tips did you give me? What year was it?
    In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?
    Wasn't the Belle and Edgewater either a half a percent or 1% cash back? I can't really remember what the card was anymore. I do know they had point multipliers, drawings and other promotions where you could play full pay deuces. Now that these stingy casinos have chopped up all the VP pay tables I have no clue why the hell they won't GIVE 1 -2 % cash back on the card to their players. Especially the slot players. I would do everything I could to get more people in the door playing longer. I have to believe that someone getting back a nice chunk of money at the end of their trip is more likely to go back to that location next time they visit.
    The Belle and Edgewater was .25% with multiplier days. The Belle had FPDW and for awhile Edgewater had 17/10 Loose Deuces. Golden Nugget had FPDW with .2% card plus one 2X day per week. Gold River/ River Palms had FPDW with .3333% card, 3X points on Thursdays, 2X points on Fridays. Pioneer had FPDW with .16666% card and multiplier days.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  17. #197

  18. #198
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    Played all the above mentioned
    I'm very sorry to hear that considering the fact that there was stuff 25 times better. Hell, Mixed in in with those full pay Deuces at the Colorado Belle Edgewater and various machines and locations in Laughlin there was an absolute no-risk thousand dollar a day play. Me and my girlfriend and someone I had working for me we're probably the only ones playing it. Most people couldn't figure it out but it wasn't for lack of trying. Their constant attempts was actually what killed the play eventually. I actually got a crappy place across the river and just live there for a while so we wouldn't have to travel back and forth to Vegas so often and we could bring our pets with us. One day I might actually tell the story when I'm certain it's not a possibility anymore.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 08-15-2019 at 11:33 PM.

  19. #199
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    Played all the above mentioned
    I'm very sorry to hear that considering the fact that there was stuff 25 times better. Hell, Mixed in in with those full pay Deuces at the Colorado Belle Edgewater and various machines and locations in Laughlin there was an absolute no-risk thousand dollar a day play. Me and my girlfriend and someone I had working for me we're probably the only ones playing it.
    The vp tournaments at Gold River?

  20. #200
    Ok, so back to this downtown GRAND thing. Is this play now over and dead?

    Also something I have been meaning to bring up. It was speculated in this thread that DT Grand might be on the sale block and the purpose of this "action" might have been to artificially inflate player and coin-in numbers to woo a perspective buyer.

    Not mentioned was the rather extensive expansion that is underway at DT Grand. That kind of expense (doubling of rooms for a place that is always dead), seems to not make sense, and isn't the kind of investment that is recouped short-term....like a pending sale.

    Any thoughts?

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