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Thread: Midwest Player nuked for sockpuppetry and trolling.

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Now just so everybody knows what Axelwolf is referring to, several of the guys, Axel, MaxPen, not sure about RS_, have recently discussed with Mike the possibility of my returning to WoV. But Mike has set terms that I can not....WILL NOT agree to. Mike wants me to apologize to Norm Wattenberger. I have nothing to apologize to Norm Wattenberger about. He banned me from his forum, because he decided he wanted to protect someone that was intentionally misleading players with Blackjack claims that were mathematically impossible. Norm is a math guy and he knew these claims were mathematically impossible. But he decided to protect the leading poster on his forum, from several of us professional players that challenged these claims.
    Damn it, KJ. If all it takes is an apology then do it. You said some awful things about Norm on both ZenZone and Gambling Forums that deserve an apology. Norm never said anything about you nearly as bad. I'm sick of hearing your "poor KJ" stories as Moses would say. If you don't want to apologize then so be it. Accept you are banned for life and lets move on. I got banned twice for going to bat for you.

  2. #42
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I think Mike mainly wanted to apologize for calling him stinky and and whatever else you may have said that wasn't related to the actual thing you were upset about in the first place. It's one thing calling out someone's b******* it's another thing when you start to get personal.
    So you are telling me that Michael Shackleford is going to dictate what I can or can't say on other forums as a condition of me participating on his forum?
    OMG kew just let it go! It's obvious you don't want to hear what your peers are telling you from every angle available. You're never wrong are you. Well it sure looks like your nemesis Shack took you out to the woodshed on this one. Swallow your silly pride and please shut your fat face.

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Damn it, KJ. If all it takes is an apology then do it. You said some awful things about Norm on both ZenZone and Gambling Forums that deserve an apology. Norm never said anything about you nearly as bad. I'm sick of hearing your "poor KJ" stories as Moses would say. If you don't want to apologize then so be it. Accept you are banned for life and lets move on. I got banned twice for going to bat for you.
    Not a chance in Hell, MWP. I am not going to apologize for something I am not sorry for, nor will I allow Mr. Shackleford to dictate what I can and can't say on other forums.

    I too feel I am owed an apology, by both of these gentlemen. But I am not demanding one. I am willing to move forward, but I am not bowing down kissing someone's ring like they are the freaking "Godfather". And I am not going to have someone tell me what I can and can't do or say outside of their forum.

  4. #44
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I think Mike mainly wanted to apologize for calling him stinky and and whatever else you may have said that wasn't related to the actual thing you were upset about in the first place. It's one thing calling out someone's b******* it's another thing when you start to get personal.
    So you are telling me that Michael Shackleford is going to dictate what I can or can't say on other forums as a condition of me participating on his forum?
    Not quite in the rules yet. That's an upcoming draft. Rule #22 Section 8 sub paragraph C..believe that's being added next week.

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Trying to get back on the WoV is so 2018. It's sort of like fighting to get into North Korea. WTF wants to do that? You have to discuss or raise only Ministry approved topics now. Only a communist would subject themself to that BS.
    do you know how hard it is to find a date on this site?
    At least the Gestapo is not at your online door here. The WoV is a great place if someone wants to be a pacified cuck being told what they can and can't talk about..

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    More trolling, you asshole? Find a roof to shovel!
    You and the refinery are the two biggest fucking assholes on the internet. At every chance you get, you take a cheap shot at Zee. Why don't you just put Zee and me on ignore. Of course, you read every one of our posts looking for the next opportunity to take a cheap shot.


    Why the mention of the refinery on this board?

  7. #47
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Now just so everybody knows what Axelwolf is referring to, several of the guys, Axel, MaxPen, not sure about RS_, have recently discussed with Mike the possibility of my returning to WoV. But Mike has set terms that I can not....WILL NOT agree to. Mike wants me to apologize to Norm Wattenberger. I have nothing to apologize to Norm Wattenberger about. He banned me from his forum, because he decided he wanted to protect someone that was intentionally misleading players with Blackjack claims that were mathematically impossible. Norm is a math guy and he knew these claims were mathematically impossible. But he decided to protect the leading poster on his forum, from several of us professional players that challenged these claims.
    Damn it, KJ. If all it takes is an apology then do it. You said some awful things about Norm on both ZenZone and Gambling Forums that deserve an apology. Norm never said anything about you nearly as bad. I'm sick of hearing your "poor KJ" stories as Moses would say. If you don't want to apologize then so be it. Accept you are banned for life and lets move on. I got banned twice for going to bat for you.
    Norm Wattenberger came on Gambling Forums and theatened all kinds of shit over KJ. . He got told to fuck off and die a billion times so left. He tried the same shit on 2 + 2 but failed there too.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 08-16-2019 at 04:33 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  8. #48
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    More trolling, you asshole? Find a roof to shovel!
    You and the refinery are the two biggest fucking assholes on the internet. At every chance you get, you take a cheap shot at Zee. Why don't you just put Zee and me on ignore. Of course, you read every one of our posts looking for the next opportunity to take a cheap shot.


    Why the mention of the refinery on this board?
    Because the country bumpkin known as MWP likes to stir up trouble. First, after not posting for years, getting banned on WoV for stirring the KJ pot. Second, for trying to reignite the never-ending Freightman/DBSBob feud on BJTF. He's a pathetic old man, who after 30+ years pretending to be an AP (obsessing on short term results), is still a red chipper.
    Last edited by 21forme; 08-16-2019 at 06:03 AM. Reason: typo

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post

    You and the refinery are the two biggest fucking assholes on the internet. At every chance you get, you take a cheap shot at Zee. Why don't you just put Zee and me on ignore. Of course, you read every one of our posts looking for the next opportunity to take a cheap shot.


    Why the mention of the refinery on this board?
    Because the country bumpkin known as MWP likes to stir up trouble. First, after not posting for years, getting banned on WoV for stirring the KJ pot. Second, for trying to reignite the never-ending Freightman/DBSBob feud on BJTF. He's a pathetic old man, who after 30+ years pretending to be an AP (obsessing on short term results), is still a red chipper.
    Say what you want but without some feuds and trolling these forums would be dead. The problem is people take it too far, and are obsessed with it. Look at Kj, he’s taking this stuff way too seriously. He needs to move on, and let it go.

    And I’ve got no feud with Freightman. When he says something stupid, which is quite often, and I’ve got nothing better to do, I call him out. He’s got the same problem Kj has. He takes this stuff way too seriously and usually goes off the deepend.

    As far as MWP, I agree with you...he likes to stir the pot but he does it in a good way. I’ve never seen him do anything malicious in his posts. I thought that was a great poll MWP posted on WOV. It made Mike come out of his cave and show his true colors. Yes, it was a little on the trolling side but all in all done in a good way.

    As to MWP’s question about where I’ve been, I haven’t gone anywhere. I’ve been traveling quite a bit with work so I haven’t had time to post much but I still keep up with the different sites. I always check out Zenzone everyday to see if Moses posted something. He’s made some classics lately. I’ve also got more into sports betting and this has taken up a lot of time. I’m finding I enjoy sports betting much more than bj, and I don’t need to worry about heat as much.

  10. #50
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    I'll make this as clear as possible:

    1. You got fucked on the reason you got banned.
    2. It's your own damn fault for posting the shit AFTER you got banned...and that is why you aren't going to get unbanned.
    So then you are saying Shackleford is a liar when he says that "things said on other forums aren't considered". That remains the official policy at WoV. It seems not to apply to only me and in two different instances now. I was banned for something said on another forum and now I can't be unbanned for things said on another forum.
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Really? someone <- was feeding some of the crap I said to Mike? Who would that have been?

    Officially I was banned for something I said at ZenZone forum. I was banned at WoV about 2 hours after my post at ZenZone Forum. Am I to believe that Mr. Shackleford is a big reader of ZenZone Forum? I can guarantee he never read it until that day....and probably hasn't since. But crybaby Norm Wattenberger reads it and he immediately contacted Mike and directed him there. That is more proof that's Norm had one agenda....to get me banned. He never cared about participating at WoV and he used Mike. Doesn't that count for anything?


    Now just so everybody knows what Axelwolf is referring to, several of the guys, Axel, MaxPen, not sure about RS_, have recently discussed with Mike the possibility of my returning to WoV. But Mike has set terms that I can not....WILL NOT agree to. Mike wants me to apologize to Norm Wattenberger. I have nothing to apologize to Norm Wattenberger about. He banned me from his forum, because he decided he wanted to protect someone that was intentionally misleading players with Blackjack claims that were mathematically impossible. Norm is a math guy and he knew these claims were mathematically impossible. But he decided to protect the leading poster on his forum, from several of us professional players that challenged these claims.

    So Norm's forum, he had a right to do that I guess. But that wasn't enough for Norm, he followed me to 4 different forums, BJ21 which at the time he didn't participate much at, Wizard of Vegas where he hadn't participated in 5 years, and 2+2 poker forum, and GamblingForums where he created accounts just to feud with me. And at each of these forums, he pressured the forum owners and administrators to ban me. Three of these forum owners/administrators told Norm to fuck off. Only Michael Shackleford gave in to Norms demand because according to Mike, he owed Norm a favor.

    Norm Wattenberger has a history of feuds with numerous people in the blackjack community and he has a history of threatening forum owners with legal action. He is a real sleazebag. A very small human being. I will NOT apologize to this asshole. And I am not sorry for anything I have said about him.

    Now Mike on the other hand, I do regret most of the things I said about him. While he was wrong for allowing Norm to bully him and ban a real member of his forum, a member who tried to contribute positively for 4 years, I do realize that Mike was put in a bad situation because he considered Norm his friend at the time. I was hard on Mike, said some really nasty things that I do regret. I always liked and respected Mike Shackleford. I admire that he left his cushy Govt job to follow his passion. I am genuinely happy for the success he had in selling his business. I only wish I had a tenth of his mathematical ability.

    But this hold that Norm continues to have over Mike is bizarre, especially after Norm ceased participating at WoV after he got what he wanted, proving what his intent was. I don't know what the deal is with these guys, but I will never apologize to Norm as a condition of anything! And for Mike to even ask that, diminishes my view of him.
    How are you not getting it?

    If I were to say "ams288 has aids" on some other forum, I would not get banned on WOV. Same applies to anyone else. If I were to say "Wizard sent me a PM, check it out, this is what it said _____" then yeah I'd probably get banned from WOV. It's not that hard to figure out. It's clear that revealing the information of a PM is against the rules, why do you think it should be acceptable to do it on one forum and not another?


    And who cares who told Wizard about your posts on ZZ or VCT? Yeah it was Norm, okay, cool. Norm wanted you banned....we all already knew this.


    I doubt (at this point) it has anything to do with Norm. I'm sure he's read your pages and pages of threats (or even just 1 post would be enough) and probably thought, "Fuck this guy is crazy. If someone's threatening me with all this crazy stuff, there's no way in hell I'm allowing him back on my forum."


    Question: Do you think it's reasonable for him to leave you banned due to the crazy shit you've said numerous times over....1,260 days or whatever that number is now?
    #FreeTyde

  11. #51
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    How are you not getting it?

    It's not that hard to figure out. It's clear that revealing the information of a PM is against the rules, why do you think it should be acceptable to do it on one forum and not another?
    I don't think you are getting it RS_. Norm contacted Mike 19 times in a 24 hour period demanding that Mike ban me.

    THAT information should be revealed. That is the smoking gun. That proves Norms intention. Mike himself, should have revealed that information. But as it turns, two different people told me this information. Mike's was more general as he said "Norm contacted him numerous times demanding that he take action." But it was a second moderator at WoV that gave me the 19 times number. This second moderator said "Norm PMed Mike 19 times in 24 hour demanding that Mike ban me". And this second moderator gave me permission to reveal this information because they knew it should be revealed. All they asked was that I not use his/her name.

    So I had every right to reveal this information. It did NOT violate privacy with Mike as the same information (in more detail) came from a second source.

    Now as proof that this went down just as I am saying, please note that I posted Norm PMed Mike 19 times. I said that because that is what the second source told me. If you remember Norm publicly denied that for several days and then revealed that he never PMed Mike, that he only contacts Mike through email. Meaning Norm denied the whole account because I said he PMed rather that email or contacted. Now Mike obviously knew if it was PM or email so the fact that I got that wrong, proves it came from a second source who got that tiny detail wrong.

    This means I DID NOT violate any rule by revealing private information from Mike. I revealed information from a second source. I had permission to do so and THAT information should have been revealed. It goes to the heart that Norm bullied and demanded Mike to ban me.

  12. #52
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Question: Do you think it's reasonable for him to leave you banned due to the crazy shit you've said numerous times over....1,260 days or whatever that number is now?
    What I think is that it was crazy for Mike to side with Norm to begin with.

    Mike operated a forum supposedly on the subject matter of gambling and Las Vegas. It obviously strayed way off from that in recent years, but back then, that is what it was mostly about. THAT is why I joined. THAT is why most of us joined.

    And those of us, AP's and gamblers that chose to participate, everybody, but particularly the AP's helped make that forum. The gamblers and trip reports too. Without members that wanted and tried to contribute positively, there would have been no forum.

    I joined WoV because I didn't like the way things were at my primary forum, which was Norms. I participated for 4 years, 3200 posts, sharing my experiences as a fulltime AP living in Vegas. I was asked to do a question and answer interview and agreed. I was suspended 1 time in 4 years for referring to EvenBob as a jackass. Pretty minor, right? Overall, my participation was geared to contributing positively to Mike's forum. And when he banned me, Mike even said something about me being one of the most liked and respected members of the forum.

    So, that is the thanks that I get, or anyone who tried to contribute positively, to make the forum more successful gets? Someone who isn't an active member, who hadn't made a single post in over 5 years, comes to the forum to continue an outside feud and demands that a regular active member in good standing be banned? That RS_ is what I find unreasonable.

    I mean that is the way Mike shows his appreciation for the real members of the forum who chose and tried to make the forum a better forum? Where is the loyalty back? Yeah, that is some crazy shit to me.

    And look how it played out. The guy that Mike sided with, who came to the forum only to manipulate and use mike to ban someone, left as soon as he got what he wanted. While the liked and respected and loyal member, who contributed positively for years, is STILL willing to move forward and participate in a positive manner.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-16-2019 at 09:46 AM.

  13. #53
    Having just gone back and read, Mike's words were that "KewlJ was a very valuable member here".

    So that raises 2 questions:

    1.) Why would you ban a very valuable member, because someone who hasn't participated in 5 years tells you to?

    2.) where is QFIT? What has he ever contributed to WoV?

    Is it really to much for me to have expected a little loyalty from Mike? Mike should have told QFIT "NO", just as all the other forum owners did.

  14. #54
    Ahhh for fucks sake people get over the death of loved ones faster.

  15. #55
    You know what RS_.....let's try this a different way. A hypothetical.

    You are a good longterm contributing member of WoV in good standing, as is Axelwolf and MaxPen.

    So suppose someone shows up, maybe someone that used to participate at WoV, but hasn't in years. AS an example let's say Alan Mendelson. So Alan starts attacking you or Axelwolf or MaxPen. Continuing a feud that was started here or on some other forum. And Alan demands from Mike that you, Axelwolf or MaxPen be banned. He bullies and manipulates and constantly harasses Mike privately until Mike bans you (or Axelwolf or MaxPen).

    Would any of you guys think THAT is reasonable?

    And then to top it all off....after achieving his goal of getting you banned, Alan disappeared again, proving that was his only agenda.

    Be honest RS_ (Axel and MaxPen too). How would you feel about that?

  16. #56
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    You know what RS_.....let's try this a different way. A hypothetical.

    You are a good longterm contributing member of WoV in good standing, as is Axelwolf and MaxPen.

    So suppose someone shows up, maybe someone that used to participate at WoV, but hasn't in years. AS an example let's say Alan Mendelson. So Alan starts attacking you or Axelwolf or MaxPen. Continuing a feud that was started here or on some other forum. And Alan demands from Mike that you, Axelwolf or MaxPen be banned. He bullies and manipulates and constantly harasses Mike privately until Mike bans you (or Axelwolf or MaxPen).

    Would any of you guys think THAT is reasonable?

    And then to top it all off....after achieving his goal of getting you banned, Alan disappeared again, proving that was his only agenda.

    Be honest RS_ (Axel and MaxPen too). How would you feel about that?
    I've already implemented a sort of-self ban of that site so I'm probably not a good one to ask. Like I've said before, subjecting oneself to that site is akin to fighting to live under Chairman Mao's rule. Who has time for BS like that?

  17. #57
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    You know what RS_.....let's try this a different way. A hypothetical.

    You are a good longterm contributing member of WoV in good standing, as is Axelwolf and MaxPen.

    So suppose someone shows up, maybe someone that used to participate at WoV, but hasn't in years. AS an example let's say Alan Mendelson. So Alan starts attacking you or Axelwolf or MaxPen. Continuing a feud that was started here or on some other forum. And Alan demands from Mike that you, Axelwolf or MaxPen be banned. He bullies and manipulates and constantly harasses Mike privately until Mike bans you (or Axelwolf or MaxPen).

    Would any of you guys think THAT is reasonable?

    And then to top it all off....after achieving his goal of getting you banned, Alan disappeared again, proving that was his only agenda.

    Be honest RS_ (Axel and MaxPen too). How would you feel about that?
    I've already implemented a sort of-self ban of that site so I'm probably not a good one to ask. Like I've said before, subjecting oneself to that site is akin to fighting to live under Chairman Mao's rule. Who has time for BS like that?
    Yes, MaxPen, we know you are unhappy with recent changes at WoV and are at least temporarily boycotting. It remains to be seen whether you will return or not.

    But despite your current displeasure, I think you can still place yourself in this hypothetical situation and be honest about how you would react.

    add on: and BTW MaxPen, you do realize that these changes that you hate so much were not Mike's doing. They came from Joshua Chan. Chan had been logged on much more than usual for several days prior to the announcement. It was pretty obvious he didn't like what he was seeing.

    And in reading Mike's announcement of the new rules he specifically mentions "the site's ownership". That was about as far as he could go without coming out and saying this wasn't his call. I suppose it doesn't change much to someone unhappy with the changes, but just saying.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-16-2019 at 01:19 PM.

  18. #58
    It's a good thing that the retards like ams, who rarely posts about gambling anyway, are gone. Go to a damn political site for that bullshit! Those who aren't happy about the changes there...tough shit!!! And if you don't like them, fuck off!! You won't be missed.

  19. #59
    It's getting pretty close to watching the HUGE amount of time kew's wasting over his rejection at WoV being more important to him than birth. STOP BEING A PUSSY AND GET OVER IT. Some people are just too thick and dense to ever get it. YOU LOST AND WILL NEVER BEAT THEM OVER THERE.

    What an idiot.

  20. #60
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    You know what RS_.....let's try this a different way. A hypothetical.

    You are a good longterm contributing member of WoV in good standing, as is Axelwolf and MaxPen.

    So suppose someone shows up, maybe someone that used to participate at WoV, but hasn't in years. AS an example let's say Alan Mendelson. So Alan starts attacking you or Axelwolf or MaxPen. Continuing a feud that was started here or on some other forum. And Alan demands from Mike that you, Axelwolf or MaxPen be banned. He bullies and manipulates and constantly harasses Mike privately until Mike bans you (or Axelwolf or MaxPen).

    Would any of you guys think THAT is reasonable?

    And then to top it all off....after achieving his goal of getting you banned, Alan disappeared again, proving that was his only agenda.

    Be honest RS_ (Axel and MaxPen too). How would you feel about that?
    I've already implemented a sort of-self ban of that site so I'm probably not a good one to ask. Like I've said before, subjecting oneself to that site is akin to fighting to live under Chairman Mao's rule. Who has time for BS like that?
    Yes, MaxPen, we know you are unhappy with recent changes at WoV and are at least temporarily boycotting. It remains to be seen whether you will return or not.

    But despite your current displeasure, I think you can still place yourself in this hypothetical situation and be honest about how you would react.

    add on: and BTW MaxPen, you do realize that these changes that you hate so much were not Mike's doing. They came from Joshua Chan. Chan had been logged on much more than usual for several days prior to the announcement. It was pretty obvious he didn't like what he was seeing.

    And in reading Mike's announcement of the new rules he specifically mentions "the site's ownership". That was about as far as he could go without coming out and saying this wasn't his call. I suppose it doesn't change much to someone unhappy with the changes, but just saying.
    I haven't even made a half dozen posts about the BS over there. I will stop before a dozen. You're on like post 1000 about your banning. Why the fuck do you keep going on and on about it? I don't give a fuck where it comes from, regarding Chan comment.
    If I were in your situation I'd bitch about it and explain my perspective. Then I'd move on. I certainly wouldn't carry on about it for months let alone years. I definitely wouldn't want to participate in something that screwed me over.

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