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Thread: I don't understand Wizard

  1. #181
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Here's another question for you MaxPen, since you are the WoV rep here.

    About 3 weeks ago, maybe a month, Midwest Player who is a member here and also a longtime member, but infrequent poster at WoV, started a threat at WoV, I forget the exact title (probably buried 9 or 10 pages deep in the current thread board) that had my name (KJ) in the title. He even said something to the effect that he hoped he wasn't breaking any rules but wanted to know if it was possible to get me re-instated. Within minutes he was nuked.

    I mean frankly if he had asked I would have advise MWP not to do that...mentioning my name is toxic. But he didn't ask and I feel sort of bad. Mike's reason given was that MWP was a sockpuppet but he didn't say who. I get the feeling Mike thinks it was me, but MWP is an a longtime time low limit (not professional) card counter, from obviously the Midwest. He participates on Norm's forum, Blackjack info, BJ21 (<- do you participate here MWP). I have known him since I started participating on my first forum the old blackjackinfo. He is a legit low level AP and definitely not me. He plays the middwest, I think trips to Wendover and Laughlin....places like that. Reno MWP?

    And while he sometimes is a little annoying, he likes to bitch about his 9 months of winter and digging out from 6 feet of snow every week, I Think Mike made a mistake on this one. (I have heard he sometimes does). Come to think of it I believe Axel commented that night Mike may have made a mistake.

    So what happened was the next morning was the "new Rules" day at WoV and this little incident got buried. I would think some of you guys that know better should speak up on his behalf. RS_, come on you know MWP....you might be one that finds him annoying, but you know he is legit.

    And if MWP is a sockpuppet of someone else, for god sakes tell us who, because he has managed to pull it off for 10+ years on multiple forums.

    That is my good deed for the day MWP. That's all I can do.
    Come on really? WoV representative? How many times have I been suspended over there? How many times have I publicly disagreed with half the rules they have?
    Mods gonna mod. What can I do about it? Nothing.
    The difference is I don't take the disagreements personally. And thankfully neither does Mike or BBB and we remain friends because believe it or not they are 2 really great people. I don't know the guy on the other side of the ocean and have never met Face as well.

    Seems like MWP is just a victim of circumstance. Why don't you create a sock and go defend him yourself? After all you are the reason he got banned.

  2. #182
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    I don't think I have ever disagreed with KJ much about anything. I have always liked KJ. I haven't disagreed with much up until his outburst about revealing another AP and now some of his defense attempts.
    I believe KJ would say that I have always been a friend. Atleast as much as one can be that basically only knows someone from a forum.
    Yes this is true. I have always liked MaxPen from the start, which if I remember correctly, we were both pretty outraged at one of our regular spots cheating a regular blind old customer. Granted the old blind guy was a bit of a dick, but he didn't believe to be cheated as he was being. Cheating a blind guy is going straight to hell type stuff!


    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Not sure what your hangup about Singer is. Do I need to go digging up some Cousin Eddie trailer pics and post them to make you happy?
    and YES! I don't know about the Vegas Lover guy, but that would really lift my spirits and make me happy.

  3. #183
    Here, here KJ to that. Why the fuck would any moderator ban MWP from a board? He is just too nice of a person to even think about doing something like that. Plus he more than goes out of his way to help new players out. A real stand up guy.

  4. #184
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    Come on really? WoV representative?
    That was a joke. But in all seriousness, somebody should ask Mike to take another look at this situation. He made a mistake on this one. (I know he is big on re-considering his actions )

    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    How many times have I been suspended over there? How many times have I publicly disagreed with half the rules they have?
    I don't think you have ever been suspended that you weren't expecting it and even trying to be.

    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    Seems like MWP is just a victim of circumstance. Why don't you create a sock and go defend him yourself? After all you are the reason he got banned.
    If I thought it would help I would. But I don't think it would. Beside, Axelwolf told me today that I am not wanted there....who knew?

    MWP....if you turn out to be Moses or some damn thing, I will freak out.

  5. #185
    Originally Posted by Vegas_lover View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I also am not a big gun guy. I believe in the second amendment and people right to have guns, not sure the forefathers envisioned assault rifles , but I don't want to get too political. Anyway until a few years ago, I personally just didn't want to own a gun. It just wasn't the way I wanted to live. But that has changed in the past few years, not 100% specific to this situation, also just the world we live in.

    So if you own a gun as I do and you defend yourself and again this isn't specific to this situation, even if someone breaks into your home and you shoot them, you kind are the one that has to prove you were justisfied and did nothing wrong. (screwed up world in which we live).

    So anyone that has a situation like I have described is well advised to contact the police and file a report. Should the worse case scenario occur and you are forced to do what you need to do to defend yourself, that report acts as protection for you in proving you were justified.
    With the ability to lash out without forethought owning a gun might not be the best thing for you. But I believe everyone should exercise their right. Hopefully you will not become a statistic that allows others to attack the right to bear arms further.
    Boy you really are a fucking douchebag. I bet you think it's a good idea for people like Singer to own a gun. Don't get me wrong I understand why people like him would own guns. He's a keyboard warrior who is scared like shit in real life and needs to bring a gun to a fist fight because he's nothing more than an old has been. Singer has made a lot of enemies during the last couple of decades so I can understand he's looking over his shoulder everywhere he goes. I never heard you make similar remarks to Singer about his gun ownership. And he lashes out plenty....and crawls back under his rock when the heat is starting to bother him.
    What an idiot. I own 10 handguns now, and I carried one in my first job outta college for ten years. Let's see.....because I'm an "old guy", that makes HOW MANY years before keyboards cameout?

    Best you keep licking redietz' ass.

  6. #186
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Plus he more than goes out of his way to help new players out.
    While that is a nice thing to say about him, I can assure you that being a member that goes out of your way to help new players means zilch at WoV, when push comes to shove.

    But I really hope as some sort of joint effort we can get MWP re-instated, even if he chooses not to participate often.

    And you know, there may be some rule about mentioning banned members that he broke, but if there is he obviously didn't know about it as he said something to the effect that he hoped it wasn't against the rules. Certainly not nuke worthy. Maybe 3 day suspension at worst. I mean come on if he hadn't mentioned my name, we are talking a warning.

  7. #187
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    But I really hope as some sort of joint effort we can get MWP re-instated, even if he chooses not to participate often.
    Come to think of it...his best chance is if I stay out of it.

  8. #188
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by Vegas_lover View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    With the ability to lash out without forethought owning a gun might not be the best thing for you. But I believe everyone should exercise their right. Hopefully you will not become a statistic that allows others to attack the right to bear arms further.
    Boy you really are a fucking douchebag. I bet you think it's a good idea for people like Singer to own a gun. Don't get me wrong I understand why people like him would own guns. He's a keyboard warrior who is scared like shit in real life and needs to bring a gun to a fist fight because he's nothing more than an old has been. Singer has made a lot of enemies during the last couple of decades so I can understand he's looking over his shoulder everywhere he goes. I never heard you make similar remarks to Singer about his gun ownership. And he lashes out plenty....and crawls back under his rock when the heat is starting to bother him.
    What an idiot. I own 10 handguns now, and I carried one in my first job outta college for ten years. Let's see.....because I'm an "old guy", that makes HOW MANY years before keyboards cameout?

    On the Whatever Board on this site, in the last post in the thread titled: "How much better can this get" Rob S wrote:


    The twisted hate of the left can all be summed up in one issue: the delusional letter some liberal congressmen sent to the Supreme Court, threatening the institution unless it starts voting the way THEY want them to.

    These libtards should all be tried and executed by public hanging, and the sooner the better.

    And here's another heart-breaking fact for you lefties. Obviously, you keep dodging discussing the unequaled policy success Trump has authored. At the forefront is THE VAST AMOUNT OF WEALTH AMASSED BY THE MIDDLE CLASS during his short presidency.

    This is the #1 issue that won't be talked about in the dem debates, but the winner better be ready to get hit with it when Trump shows up on that stage again. You libtards REALLY think voters care about "income equality", Green New Deals, "spook reparations", open borders, or free healthcare for illegal slobs?



    Rob, do you really think that you are the right type of individual to own guns? Considering your uncivilized hatred, and biases to certain ethnicities. I consider myself a strong Republican, but I don't have any category for where you belong. As far as you being a gun owner explains a lot about the problems the country is currently having.

  9. #189
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    That was a joke. But in all seriousness, somebody should ask Mike to take another look at this situation. He made a mistake on this one. (I know he is big on re-considering his actions )



    I don't think you have ever been suspended that you weren't expecting it and even trying to be.

    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    Seems like MWP is just a victim of circumstance. Why don't you create a sock and go defend him yourself? After all you are the reason he got banned.
    If I thought it would help I would. But I don't think it would. Beside, Axelwolf told me today that I am not wanted there....who knew?

    MWP....if you turn out to be Moses or some damn thing, I will freak out.
    I REALLY don't think that MWP is Moses. MVP is obviously way more mature, sane, and normal than Moses is.

  10. #190
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    That was a joke. But in all seriousness, somebody should ask Mike to take another look at this situation. He made a mistake on this one. (I know he is big on re-considering his actions )



    I don't think you have ever been suspended that you weren't expecting it and even trying to be.

    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    Seems like MWP is just a victim of circumstance. Why don't you create a sock and go defend him yourself? After all you are the reason he got banned.
    If I thought it would help I would. But I don't think it would. Beside, Axelwolf told me today that I am not wanted there....who knew?

    MWP....if you turn out to be Moses or some damn thing, I will freak out.
    I REALLY don't think that MWP is Moses. MVP is obviously way more mature, sane, and normal than Moses is.
    MWP is NOT Moses...that was a joke. Why would I speak up for him if there was any chance he was Moses.

  11. #191
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by Vegas_lover View Post

    Boy you really are a fucking douchebag. I bet you think it's a good idea for people like Singer to own a gun. Don't get me wrong I understand why people like him would own guns. He's a keyboard warrior who is scared like shit in real life and needs to bring a gun to a fist fight because he's nothing more than an old has been. Singer has made a lot of enemies during the last couple of decades so I can understand he's looking over his shoulder everywhere he goes. I never heard you make similar remarks to Singer about his gun ownership. And he lashes out plenty....and crawls back under his rock when the heat is starting to bother him.
    What an idiot. I own 10 handguns now, and I carried one in my first job outta college for ten years. Let's see.....because I'm an "old guy", that makes HOW MANY years before keyboards cameout?

    On the Whatever Board on this site, in the last post in the thread titled: "How much better can this get" Rob S wrote:


    The twisted hate of the left can all be summed up in one issue: the delusional letter some liberal congressmen sent to the Supreme Court, threatening the institution unless it starts voting the way THEY want them to.

    These libtards should all be tried and executed by public hanging, and the sooner the better.

    And here's another heart-breaking fact for you lefties. Obviously, you keep dodging discussing the unequaled policy success Trump has authored. At the forefront is THE VAST AMOUNT OF WEALTH AMASSED BY THE MIDDLE CLASS during his short presidency.

    This is the #1 issue that won't be talked about in the dem debates, but the winner better be ready to get hit with it when Trump shows up on that stage again. You libtards REALLY think voters care about "income equality", Green New Deals, "spook reparations", open borders, or free healthcare for illegal slobs?



    Rob, do you really think that you are the right type of individual to own guns? Considering your uncivilized hatred, and biases to certain ethnicities. I consider myself a strong Republican, but I don't have any category for where you belong. As far as you being a gun owner explains a lot about the problems the country is currently having.
    Well, you seem to be on the outside looking in when it comes to this and quite a few other subjects.

    According to our laws, OF COURSE I'm the proper type of gun owner in this country. Aside from being a 10-yr. govt. vet, I've never had a conviction of even a problem with the law, I have a concealed carry permit, I'm basically an expert at shooting compared to your regular Joe who goes to ranges, and I'm not a mentally challenged individual.

    So I'm not sure what your point is. You mean because I'm able to shove measly-mouthed words back into the faces of forum idiots and trolls with impunity, or that I've been able to talk tough when confronting forum foes? That stuff should qualify me for automatic weapons with silencers!

  12. #192
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post

    What an idiot. I own 10 handguns now, and I carried one in my first job outta college for ten years. Let's see.....because I'm an "old guy", that makes HOW MANY years before keyboards cameout?

    On the Whatever Board on this site, in the last post in the thread titled: "How much better can this get" Rob S wrote:


    The twisted hate of the left can all be summed up in one issue: the delusional letter some liberal congressmen sent to the Supreme Court, threatening the institution unless it starts voting the way THEY want them to.

    These libtards should all be tried and executed by public hanging, and the sooner the better.

    And here's another heart-breaking fact for you lefties. Obviously, you keep dodging discussing the unequaled policy success Trump has authored. At the forefront is THE VAST AMOUNT OF WEALTH AMASSED BY THE MIDDLE CLASS during his short presidency.

    This is the #1 issue that won't be talked about in the dem debates, but the winner better be ready to get hit with it when Trump shows up on that stage again. You libtards REALLY think voters care about "income equality", Green New Deals, "spook reparations", open borders, or free healthcare for illegal slobs?



    Rob, do you really think that you are the right type of individual to own guns? Considering your uncivilized hatred, and biases to certain ethnicities. I consider myself a strong Republican, but I don't have any category for where you belong. As far as you being a gun owner explains a lot about the problems the country is currently having.
    Well, you seem to be on the outside looking in when it comes to this and quite a few other subjects.

    According to our laws, OF COURSE I'm the proper type of gun owner in this country. Aside from being a 10-yr. govt. vet, I've never had a conviction of even a problem with the law, I have a concealed carry permit, I'm basically an expert at shooting compared to your regular Joe who goes to ranges, and I'm not a mentally challenged individual.

    So I'm not sure what your point is. You mean because I'm able to shove measly-mouthed words back into the faces of forum idiots and trolls with impunity, or that I've been able to talk tough when confronting forum foes? That stuff should qualify me for automatic weapons with silencers!
    It's the world today. What's right is wrong. What's up is down. What's forward is backward. Negative interest rates anyone?

    #YANGGANG2020

    Get pulled in a wagon until too many decide to jump in for the free ride leaving no one to pull. May the wagon cascade backwards down the hill crashing into a million pieces.

    Liberal Logic will be the death of many. No guns needed. These people are more dangerous than any firearm with a madman on the pulling end of the trigger

  13. #193
    San Francisco just passed a resolution calling the NRA a domestic terrorist organization.

  14. #194
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    San Francisco just passed a resolution calling the NRA a domestic terrorist organization.
    Wonder who stepped in shit on their way into pass that resolution. The toilet of America.

  15. #195
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    That was a joke. But in all seriousness, somebody should ask Mike to take another look at this situation. He made a mistake on this one. (I know he is big on re-considering his actions )



    I don't think you have ever been suspended that you weren't expecting it and even trying to be.



    If I thought it would help I would. But I don't think it would. Beside, Axelwolf told me today that I am not wanted there....who knew?

    MWP....if you turn out to be Moses or some damn thing, I will freak out.
    I REALLY don't think that MWP is Moses. MVP is obviously way more mature, sane, and normal than Moses is.
    MWP is NOT Moses...that was a joke. Why would I speak up for him if there was any chance he was Moses.
    You seemed slightly skeptical, so I tried to allay your concerns.

  16. #196
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I'm going to put in my two cents. I don't know how old Axelwolf is, but somebody's coming across like he's lived a sheltered life. This is all tempest in a teapot nonsense. And if "Singer" weren't in an anti-KJ corner, he'd be harping on what a "snowflake" Axel sounds like.

    KJ didn't do anything. Period. If and when he does something, then he's done something. KJ went, "Nyahh, nyaahhh, you're gonna be exposed." Axel portrays this as some big deal threat to the universe. Goddamn, Axel, I have some brilliant advice for you. That advice is based on the fact that sports handicappers have been stealing and exposing each other's plays for gazillions of years. The only thing that keeps me out of the circle jerk is that I'm an anomaly -- I use very few "set plays." So nobody can steal anything from me, or expose my livelihood to the casino bad guys, or hurt me. But the best people in the business have had their best plays exposed, their client lists stolen, their run-ins with the law or whatever publicized. Mike Lee, one of the finest handicappers of all time, entered into partnerships with people who ripped off everything from his style to his plays to his clients. People try to data mine your plays and profile every handicapper who wins -- they are trying to destroy you every blessed day of every year.

    So here's my brilliant advice to naïve snowflakes:

    If somebody has the ability to shut you down, expose you, and hurt you, you may want to consider treating them with formality and a modicum of respect. Now if I thought KJ was actually going to expose you, Axel -- and I do not -- the problem is mainly of your making. If you know people who'd have no qualms about putting you in the ground if you disrespect them, and reality forces you to interact with them regularly (and yes, I have dealings with those kinds of people and have for 40 years), then guess what? Don't be a flippant horse's ass in their company.

    Now I realize this is just genius advice. But I figure I'd pass it along.

    I don't know how standard APs operate, but until somebody does something, they haven't done something. If KJ wanted to out you or anybody, all he'd have to do his have a friend or brother do it. Or hell, me. I'd do it, sufficiently motivated.

    I find your post such a flagrant attempt to squash KJ, who hasn't done anything, that it's ridiculous. I don't even understand your logic. If you get KJ banned here, based on his threat to out you, then why wouldn't he out you? You must want to be outed, or being outed isn't a big deal. I mean, that's the logical outcome, right?

    Unless, of course, you know KJ wouldn't do that?

    So which is it?

    As for some other things on your list of KJ's psycho moments:

    1) People look up other people's info all the time, usually with more detail than what KJ does. My brother-in-law was the biggest PI in New Mexico. If I wanted to know anything about anybody on this forum, odds are, I'd be able to do it. I haven't bothered. If you have an email address of someone, you're about 50/50 to being able to track down their name and residence. Here's a hint: KJ has money. He could just buy the forum if he wanted to screw with people. Big revelation.

    2) If somebody's screws with you, reminding them you're going to screw with them in perpetuity is SOP. What, you're supposed to play nice? Why? Shackleford, in my opinion, based on what I've read, deserves any grief he gets from KJ.


    I've said this before, but I'm not sure I'd last 72 hours as KJ's roommate unless he were mute or I could slap him in the face once every 12 minutes. But that doesn't make him an evil anti-AP psycho. I don't know why you guys are playing drama queens aimed at the resident drama queen, but grow up and get real.

    And my advice: if somebody has the ability to squash you, or the inclination to bury you and yours, you may want to inject some formality into your interactions. Or cease the interactions on a friendly note.
    Yes Red, I know sports betting is a superior form Advantage play, and I'm not being sarcastic about that. I currently invest in sports betting, obviously not to the level you and many others do.

    You would be absolutely wrong thinking I have lived a sheltered life. I put myself in a situation where I haven't had to work a normal job for most of my adult life. Yes, I've been lucky enough to experience many carefree easy-going fun-filled years throughout out my life due to the path I chose, but I can almost guarantee I've been through a lot more and overcome much more than most people here, but who cares, many people go through worse and some people never had an actual hard day in their life.

    I'm not sure where I said that KJ had the ability to squash my career? I've been in data bases (including Griffin) and on the casinos radar since the 90's so theres probably not much more anyone can do that hasn't already been done. Even if I could never step foot in another casino again it wouldn't end my career, I would find a way around it just like I found a way around it just like I found a way around all the other obstacles that come up in my life and career. I'm not saying there's zero chance of some consequences if he does or has done that. I absolutely do think he's capable I'm doing something like that looking at his history and just the pure fact that he said it. If so, he already has even before all this,and is only now using it as a tool in order to try to shut me up.

    I've been involved in sports betting and all different types of Advantage play from A to Z to understand the the diffrent levels of the seriousness of being exposed has on your ability to proceed. I would say blackjack is probably one of the worst to have information exposed about you. And just like sports, people "stealing", exposing, learning, killing comes along with almost all Advantage play forms. And that's why I tried to do and learn as many different things as possible and not just be committed to one(unlike KJ).

    As a professional sports bettor and/or whatever else you got going, Perhaps you think it's a less serious issue being expose.

    This was really no longer about me very soon after he said it. This was about anyone and everyone in the AP community and KJ. Obviously it's more serious to some than others. If it's not serious to you or someone else then no big deal. But, don't tell me whats serious to and others and what's not. Even he himself knows what he said IS some big deal threat to the AP universe. He may no longer admit that now considering that threat came out of his singers and thoughts. No doubt, has anyone else said what he said to anyone else on the forums he absolutely would have went ballistic and claimed it to be the worst possible thing one could say as an advantage player and I would be right there in his corner. I would never have anything to do with anybody that said something like that, nor would most other Advantage players I know. Why do you think he said it to me? He was trying to shut me up and scare me because apparently something hit a nerve with him(you still can't explain exactly what I said that was so wrong). I believe at the time he said it he was serious about what he said and there is a chance he already acted on it prior. I just don't think he realized how everyone else would view his comment because at the time he probably felt it was okay because it was just directed at me. I'm sure he had a no s*** moment realizing how others will view that comment. He basically said f*** the community, what community. So now people are thinking this guy doesn't give a s*** about the community and anytime he gets a hair up his ass this guy might just do exactly what he's thinking if he hasn't already. If he feels the community has turned on him, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't turn on the community. He obviously has some sort of feeling the community has turned on him. That's really going to be a big punch in the gut considering desperate he is to belong on East forums. That's obvious considering all the damage the forums have caused him in so many ways(how many times has he said he's leaving and not coming back?)

    And for the Record, I never tried to get KJ banned from here or anywhere else. I didn't run around on other forums and social media groups exposing what he had said. If he gets banned from yet another forum the community that will be all his own doing, no doubt, he will blame everyone, BUT, himself. The more he sits and yaps about it on this thread the more traction it'll gain and the more people will know about it. I'm not going to walk on eggshells because of this. I wasn't the one that said it and no matter how much he or any on else wants to turn it around on me just a bunch of smoke and mirrors. And no amount of that is going to be enough to whitewash what he said.

    You may not think he's a psychopath but I guarantee you many others do. As far as the evil part goes, I guess that remains to be seen. Considering the fact that KJ's met almost no one that anybody knows of, we only have what he says on the forums to go on. If you go back and look at his complete history and all the crazy things and add them up it doesn't look good.


    You are assuming KJ has money. Have you seen or do you know anybody that has seen KJ's money we're done business with him that could verify anything at all whatsoever in any way shape or form? I'm not saying he does or doesn't I really don't care, I'm just using him as an example since you made that assumption about him. Personally I like some kinda chain of verification from some people I've actually seen and met in person. When there's enough people we have dealt with that person and seen evidence of those assumptions. Whatever the case, I know what my IP address comes back as and it's not even close to my address. And my phone doesn't come back to me either. I certainly didn't add any of my personal information to the site and I probably used some throwaway email address. I really don't even know what you're getting at with all that. I suppose anybody who had money could buy The Forum if they were willing to pay enough. From my understanding Dan isn't willing to sell it for an amount anyone would be willing to buy it for I think I may have asked them before. What's more likely I'd be willing to buy it than anyone else. And now that you mention i,t wouldn't it be more likely people like Norm and whatever forums he's not welcome at have had KJ's IP addresses and email information?

    I'm not sure if you were directing that snowflake stiff at me, but just in case. I am for you to go back I look at my history across some of the forums and there's nothing to indicate I'm a snowflake. Whatever my reaction is to this particular situation I don't think Here Comes Close to snowflake territory. And you would have been one did have hey snowflake reaction I don't think anyone should be considered a snowflake when it comes to this.
    Anyways, I'm thinking I'm spending considerably less time on this forum. Because for the most part just a bunch of people attacking one another. And I'm actually welcome most another forums


    p.s is your brother-in-law Jay J. Armes? Oh wait, never mind, that guy's from New Mexico. Quite an interesting character if you don't know already.

  17. #197
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    And btw, I know you are really pissed that I posted the "willing to forgive and forget" private comment, very similarly to how Mike is pissed that I posted some private things that he said that contradict what he said publicly. And while that isn't a nice thing to do and something I don't do lightly, the bigger issue is your dishonesty. You lied! You forced me to expose your lie. And now judging from this reply, you are even madder at me because you lied.

    Frankly I think you did the same thing with the "my brother is gay thing" and that's why you have ignored that question. I was bitching about you outing me to this forum and you gave me a "my brother is gay" line, just like a racist would say "hey I have black friends". But that is really irrelevant.

    The point is you lied and were dishonest. Forced me to prove you were dishonest. And then get mad at me.
    I already explained this in a previous post. Let's look at what I said again.

    I'm willing to forgive and forget. I didn't follow it up with anything or say, I forgive you and forget. I waited to hear what your response was and see how things went. Had you come back with something besides what you had said then we possibly could have worked something out but you didn't. You went on and kept trying to defend yourself and blame others. It was the same s*** you been going on about over and over forever and blaming others for your misfortunes on the forums. But only you could misconstrue something like that as a lie. You're the one trying to falsely discredit me claiming I'm a liar. You are desperately grasping at straws in order to justify exposing PM'S. I doubt I would ever expose one of your PMS no matter what you said.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 09-05-2019 at 06:26 AM.

  18. #198
    5 million to 1 that says NONE of you can stay of of the internet for more than a week.

  19. #199
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    5 million to 1 that says NONE of you can stay of of the internet for more than a week.
    Not interested.

    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    And btw, I know you are really pissed that I posted the "willing to forgive and forget" private comment, very similarly to how Mike is pissed that I posted some private things that he said that contradict what he said publicly. And while that isn't a nice thing to do and something I don't do lightly, the bigger issue is your dishonesty. You lied! You forced me to expose your lie. And now judging from this reply, you are even madder at me because you lied.

    Frankly I think you did the same thing with the "my brother is gay thing" and that's why you have ignored that question. I was bitching about you outing me to this forum and you gave me a "my brother is gay" line, just like a racist would say "hey I have black friends". But that is really irrelevant.

    The point is you lied and were dishonest. Forced me to prove you were dishonest. And then get mad at me.
    I already explained this in a previous post. Let's look at what I said again.

    I'm willing to forgive and forget. I didn't follow it up with anything or say, I forgive you and forget. I waited to hear what your response was and see how things went. Had you come back with something besides what you had said then we possibly could have worked something out but you didn't. You went on and kept trying to defend yourself and blame others. It was the same s*** you been going on about over and over forever and blaming others for your misfortunes on the forums. But only you could misconstrue something like that as a lie. You're the one trying to falsely discredit me claiming I'm a liar. You are desperately grasping at straws in order to justify exposing PM'S. I doubt I would ever expose one of your PMS no matter what you said.
    Axelwolf, with the things you have said in as uncertain terms as you could (1 inch print), you were never willing or going to "forgive and forget". And that is fine. No one says you have to forgive and forget. I didn't ask you to forgive and forget, did I. You threw that out there. BUT, let's not pretend you were ever going to do that or be able to do that. You would have continued to throw up little reminders, whenever it suited your needs...a month from now, 6 months from now, completely different discussion....boom you would get you jab in and twist it. That is just how you are. If you need proof. Look no further than the fake death thing. You weren't even on that forum. You certainly don't no all the details, because I haven't even shared all the details. You just see an opportunity to use that to discredit me at various times, and do so and HAVE done so about 6 different times now.

    I am quite sure you are a top AP, knowledgeable beyond my dreams and have years of success to prove it. I am quite sure your friends and teammates think you are a great person. You have demonstrated how loyal you are to your friends whether they are right or wrong. But on these forums, and I am only familiar with you here GF before this, and WoV, you have also quite clearly shown a side that bullies, manipulates and uses people, especially people outside your immediate circle.

    Again, this really goes back to one thing. Michael Shackleford. Even though you know he was wrong, the second I said something negative about him, an agenda was born to discredit and undermine me. I have always felt that, I mean literally felt that in all your little jabs, right up to the bigger ones as time went on.

    You and I are way past any point of moving forward. I am your sworn enemy because I dared question and challenge Mike about the situation, that you know was wrong. And I don't trust you because I know you have had an agenda to discredit me for quite a while now, to take me down because of things I say about Mike.

    Look you and others....most others....maybe every single person, may think it is long past time that I let this go. But you don't get to make that decision. You don't know how much Mike hurt me that day and even more so in the months that followed with his cover-up and lying and saying things to me that he couldn't bring himself to say publicly.

    I had great respect for Mike, I mean really great admiration. Here is a guy, kind of a nerdy, geeky (not meant disparagingly), conservative (meaning safe, not political) type guy with a nice safe cushy GovT job and he gave that up to chase his dream. He took a chance. So happens he got lucky with the overpaid sale of his forum, but he took a chance. These kind of guys never take a chance...they play it safe and straight, work their Govt job for 30 years and retire. So I admired the hell of out Mike when I learned of his story and that is why I chose to participate at WoV. And why I tried very hard to contribute in a positive manner, mostly on topic of Gambling/AP, staying clear of most of the garbage, that I still don't know why he ever allowed. I guess he likes that kind of shit....I mean he created a whole second forum just for that. But that is beside the point.

    At WoV I worked hard to contribute positively. It was the first forum I like the members and forum since BJinfo had closed. No offense to the members at Norms forum or the management at BJ21. Both had half of what I was looking for. At WoV, I felt comfortable, shared my experiences, good and bad, talked shop and a few other topics. And while I have always had a few haters on some level because I guess I rub some people the wrong way (yeah gay joke opportunity), I felt pretty liked and respected at WoV, including by Mike who I admired. That is why I agreed to do that 20 question interview that I was skeptical about. Sure I share a lot of stuff, experiences and what not, but I always do so on my terms. I decide what I want to share. I had a feeling that interview would probably lead me towards things I probably wouldn't have gone to.

    And while I was participating at WOV, enjoying it, enjoying participating with members I liked and respected and an owner I liked respected and trusted, things at Norm's forum were crashing and burning. I didn't really care that much. I knew how it would end. Had seen Norms feuds before. Didn't like him. Didn't trust him. Didn't respect him. I only helped him start his forum because we as a group were out of options when BJinfo shut down (Before I was aware of WoV). If I had know about WoV in 2011, there wouldn't even be a Norm's forum (BJTF) or any of this. But anyway.

    And yeah, one extra side benefit of WoV, was that there was no chance of Norm. While he was technically a member, he hadn't participated in over 5 years and what's worse...He had publicly stated that he didn't participate at WoV because he didn't trust Michael Shackleford because of his past association with Venetian. So there was no chance of Norm....or so I thought.

    So when Norm showed up, bringing an outside feud, and Mike kissed his ass, fawned all over him and eventually sided with him in this feud over a member of his own forum, a member that Mike said was very respected, liked and made many positive contributions, I was crushed. I really was. And still am. Crushed isn't nearly a strong enough word. It's more than losing the ability to participate at WoV, where I felt comfortable, like the membership, liked Mike. It was the betrayal by someone I greatly admired and respected. And the betrayal in the aftermath was even worse.

    I mean when Mike said privately to me, "I owed Norm a favor, he had done some math work for me, so when he asked for a favor I couldn't say no", I was stunned. I mean completely stunned and crushed.

    And while my opinion of Mike had gone south, I still saw hope that he was the decent person I had so much respect for because our private conversations showed how uncomfortable he was with what he had done. He would say things like "I am trying to find a way to bring you back".

    I know you guys are going to scream blood murderabout sharing PM's but read these few lines from Mike after I was banned.

    "I will be sorry to see you go. If I had the choice between you and Norm as members, I would take you any day.

    In my defense, I have considered Norm a friend for years before his first post. He has helped me out several times when I needed some difficult blackjack math confirmed and he has never asked for anything in return. So, when he, after all the favors he has done for me, asked for one in return, I had a hard time saying "no."

    So I concede that working out that truce and then enforcing it was done out of some favoritism towards Norm.

    After I did suspend Norm, he wrote me to saying that we're no longer on speaking terms".


    I mean Mike being your friend or not....WTF?!?

    "IF he had a choice between me and Norm he would take me any day" That is exactly the choice he had and he did the opposite!

    "I concede that working out the truce and then enforcing it was done out of favoritism towards Norm". Again....WTF?!? How can I not feel the way I do, angry, betrayed by someone I had great respect for?

    And I don't even want to get into that last line about Norm threatening to stop speaking to Mike, holding their friendship over his head. I mean you guys talk about me threatening Mike....Jesus H Christ!

    So Axelwolf or anyone else, you may feel I have carried this way to far...but you don't get to tell me how I should feel and when I should stop feeling that way. This was big to me, on many level, because it was someone I liked and had great respect for. And because it was such cowardly thing to do. He allowed himself to be bullied by Norm.....Knows he was wrong.....is even pretty damn uncomfortable with it, but just doesn't have the balls to fix it. And probably worst of all now, is too worried what people will think.

    So Axelwolf, I am going to continue to keep my promise to Mike....not threat, but promise. And you can continue you agenda to protect Mike by trying to discredit me. But don't talk to me about "forgiving and forgetting" We are way past that.

    #Where'sNORM?
    #SHACKLEFORDplayedbyNORM
    #FALSEsenseofLOYALTY
    Last edited by kewlJ; 09-05-2019 at 10:13 AM.

  20. #200
    Because you'd lose. Degenerates gotta degen....

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