Not interested.
Originally Posted by
AxelWolf
Originally Posted by
kewlJ
And btw, I know you are really pissed that I posted the
"willing to forgive and forget" private comment, very similarly to how Mike is pissed that I posted some private things that he said that contradict what he said publicly. And while that isn't a nice thing to do and something I don't do lightly, the bigger issue is your dishonesty. You lied! You forced me to expose your lie. And now judging from this reply, you are even madder at me because
you lied.
Frankly I think you did the same thing with the "my brother is gay thing" and that's why you have ignored that question. I was bitching about you outing me to this forum and you gave me a "my brother is gay" line, just like a racist would say "hey I have black friends".
But that is really irrelevant.
The point is you lied and were dishonest. Forced me to prove you were dishonest. And then get mad at me.
I already explained this in a previous post. Let's look at what I said again.
I'm
willing to forgive and forget. I didn't follow it up with anything or say, I forgive you and forget. I waited to hear what your response was and see how things went. Had you come back with something besides what you had said then we possibly could have worked something out but you didn't. You went on and kept trying to defend yourself and blame others. It was the same s*** you been going on about over and over forever and blaming others for your misfortunes on the forums. But only you could misconstrue something like that as a lie. You're the one trying to falsely discredit me claiming I'm a liar. You are desperately grasping at straws in order to justify exposing PM'S. I doubt I would ever expose one of your PMS no matter what you said.
Axelwolf, with the things you have said in as uncertain terms as you could (1 inch print), you were
never willing or going to "forgive and forget". And that is fine. No one says you have to forgive and forget. I didn't ask you to forgive and forget, did I. You threw that out there. BUT, let's not pretend you were ever going to do that or be able to do that. You would have continued to throw up little reminders, whenever it suited your needs...a month from now, 6 months from now, completely different discussion....boom you would get you jab in and twist it. That is just how you are. If you need proof. Look no further than the fake death thing. You weren't even on that forum. You certainly don't no all the details, because I haven't even shared all the details. You just see an opportunity to use that to discredit me at various times, and do so and HAVE done so about 6 different times now.
I am quite sure you are a top AP, knowledgeable beyond my dreams and have years of success to prove it. I am quite sure your friends and teammates think you are a great person. You have demonstrated how loyal you are to your friends whether they are right or wrong. But on these forums, and I am only familiar with you here GF before this, and WoV, you have also quite clearly shown a side that bullies, manipulates and uses people, especially people outside your immediate circle.
Again, this really goes back to one thing. Michael Shackleford. Even though you know he was wrong, the second I said something negative about him, an agenda was born to discredit and undermine me. I have always felt that, I mean literally felt that in all your little jabs, right up to the bigger ones as time went on.
You and I are way past any point of moving forward. I am your sworn enemy because I dared question and challenge Mike about the situation, that you know was wrong. And I don't trust you because I know you have had an agenda to discredit me for quite a while now, to take me down because of things I say about Mike.
Look you and others....most others....maybe every single person, may think it is long past time that I let this go. But you don't get to make that decision. You don't know how much Mike hurt me that day and even more so in the months that followed with his cover-up and lying and saying things to me that he couldn't bring himself to say publicly.
I had great respect for Mike, I mean really great admiration. Here is a guy, kind of a nerdy, geeky (not meant disparagingly), conservative (meaning safe, not political) type guy with a nice safe cushy GovT job and he gave that up to chase his dream. He took a chance. So happens he got lucky with the overpaid sale of his forum, but he took a chance. These kind of guys never take a chance...they play it safe and straight, work their Govt job for 30 years and retire. So I admired the hell of out Mike when I learned of his story and that is why I chose to participate at WoV. And why I tried very hard to contribute in a positive manner, mostly on topic of Gambling/AP, staying clear of most of the garbage, that I still don't know why he ever allowed. I guess he likes that kind of shit....I mean he created a whole second forum just for that.
But that is beside the point.
At WoV I worked hard to contribute positively. It was the first forum I like the members and forum since BJinfo had closed. No offense to the members at Norms forum or the management at BJ21. Both had half of what I was looking for. At WoV, I felt comfortable, shared my experiences, good and bad, talked shop and a few other topics. And while I have always had a few haters on some level because I guess I rub some people the wrong way (yeah gay joke opportunity), I felt pretty liked and respected at WoV, including by Mike who I admired. That is why I agreed to do that 20 question interview that I was skeptical about. Sure I share a lot of stuff, experiences and what not, but I always do so on my terms. I decide what I want to share. I had a feeling that interview would probably lead me towards things I probably wouldn't have gone to.
And while I was participating at WOV, enjoying it, enjoying participating with members I liked and respected and an owner I liked respected and trusted, things at Norm's forum were crashing and burning. I didn't really care that much. I knew how it would end. Had seen Norms feuds before. Didn't like him. Didn't trust him. Didn't respect him. I only helped him start his forum because we as a group were out of options when BJinfo shut down (Before I was aware of WoV). If I had know about WoV in 2011, there wouldn't even be a Norm's forum (BJTF) or any of this.
But anyway.
And yeah, one extra side benefit of WoV, was that there was no chance of Norm. While he was technically a member, he hadn't participated in over 5 years and what's worse...He had publicly stated that he didn't participate at WoV because he didn't trust Michael Shackleford because of his past association with Venetian. So there was no chance of Norm....or so I thought.
So when Norm showed up, bringing an outside feud, and Mike kissed his ass, fawned all over him and eventually sided with him in this feud over a member of his own forum, a member that Mike said was very respected, liked and made many positive contributions, I was crushed. I really was. And still am. Crushed isn't nearly a strong enough word. It's more than losing the ability to participate at WoV, where I felt comfortable, like the membership, liked Mike. It was the betrayal by someone I greatly admired and respected. And the betrayal in the aftermath was even worse.
I mean when Mike said privately to me,
"I owed Norm a favor, he had done some math work for me, so when he asked for a favor I couldn't say no", I was stunned. I mean completely stunned and crushed.
And while my opinion of Mike had gone south, I still saw hope that he was the decent person I had so much respect for because our private conversations showed how uncomfortable he was with what he had done. He would say things like "I am trying to find a way to bring you back".
I know you guys are going to scream blood murderabout sharing PM's but read these few lines from Mike after I was banned.
"I will be sorry to see you go. If I had the choice between you and Norm as members, I would take you any day.
In my defense, I have considered Norm a friend for years before his first post. He has helped me out several times when I needed some difficult blackjack math confirmed and he has never asked for anything in return. So, when he, after all the favors he has done for me, asked for one in return, I had a hard time saying "no."
So I concede that working out that truce and then enforcing it was done out of some favoritism towards Norm.
After I did suspend Norm, he wrote me to saying that we're no longer on speaking terms".
I mean Mike being your friend or not....WTF?!?
"IF he had a choice between me and Norm he would take me any day" That is exactly the choice he had and he did the opposite!
"I concede that working out the truce and then enforcing it was done out of favoritism towards Norm". Again....WTF?!? How can I not feel the way I do, angry, betrayed by someone I had great respect for?
And I don't even want to get into that last line about Norm threatening to stop speaking to Mike, holding their friendship over his head. I mean you guys talk about me threatening Mike....Jesus H Christ!
So Axelwolf or anyone else, you may feel I have carried this way to far...but you don't get to tell me how I should feel and when I should stop feeling that way. This was big to me, on many level, because it was someone I liked and had great respect for. And because it was such cowardly thing to do. He allowed himself to be bullied by Norm.....Knows he was wrong.....is even pretty damn uncomfortable with it, but just doesn't have the balls to fix it. And probably worst of all now, is too worried what people will think.
So Axelwolf, I am going to continue to keep my promise to Mike....not threat, but promise. And you can continue you agenda to protect Mike by trying to discredit me. But don't talk to me about "forgiving and forgetting" We are way past that.
#Where'sNORM?