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Thread: machines that advertise being APable ? Am I an AP or credit hustler?

  1. #1
    https://wtvr.com/2019/03/26/skill-based-slot-machines/

    So these machines have a cheat button on them which shows you your next spin. You can actually see the next hand. I am in the Eastern US ATM but not Virginia. Has anyone fucked with these ? I assume you have to deposit $$ first etc? I am never going to have the time to do this. The density of the machines will never exist as they're at gas stations etc. Regardless, I found it interesting that the game manufacturer actually pushes the +100% angle to keep it legal under the pretense it is a skill game.

    This whole "skill game" concept if fascinating. I've been examining the various approaches manufacturers use to obtain the "skilled" claim. Came across a play in the hotel with their PA skill games. Basically you never win outright, but have to 'nudge' the right reel. If you nudge the wrong reel or wrong direction, you lose. Thus skill. The funny thing is, it doesn't advance to the next screen if there is a winnable nudge. So you hit play play play then when it doesn't respond, you stop and look for the proper nudge. Now if you aren't familiar with the ridiculousness of it all, or drunk, you might drop a $10 in there then have it seemingly lock up on the spins.. and you walk away. Thats where I jump in.

    Unfortunately this just makes me a lowly credit hustler? or am I an AP?

    Like if I want to play $4 a spin, but someone has been playing .25, how is that handled? it is no longer "skilled" if the $4 spin is random without letting me peek/cheat?

  2. #2
    These are skill based slots, Texas Tea Pinball and Cleopatra Pinball. They are highly AP'able. I've made pretty good money on them.

    Texas Tea Pinball is a progressive game with three meters running. However, those meters are buried up on the 10th page of the rules screens so the the public generally don't know they are playing a progressive game. The meters keep going up until someone wins all three meters in the pinball game. The average cost to get to the pinball game is $120 so I generally play when I find $200+ in the meters.

    There were some very big scores made on this game when it first came out. The general public are not good pinball players. The meters would keep rising until they were capped at $650 total. Then after that the money went into a backup pool. So I would sometimes find the meters capped at $650, win that money, then it would come back capped again at $650, etc. This with a cost of just $120 to get to the pinball game.

    I practiced on the 60 bet level until I got good enough at the game to win then jumped up to the 300 level.

    Luck is probability taken personally.

  3. #3
    What?????? What you talking about Mickey? Those are pinball?

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    These are skill based slots, Texas Tea Pinball and Cleopatra Pinball. They are highly AP'able. I've made pretty good money on them.

    Texas Tea Pinball is a progressive game with three meters running. However, those meters are buried up on the 10th page of the rules screens so the the public generally don't know they are playing a progressive game. The meters keep going up until someone wins all three meters in the pinball game. The average cost to get to the pinball game is $120 so I generally play when I find $200+ in the meters.

    There were some very big scores made on this game when it first came out. The general public are not good pinball players. The meters would keep rising until they were capped at $650 total. Then after that the money went into a backup pool. So I would sometimes find the meters capped at $650, win that money, then it would come back capped again at $650, etc. This with a cost of just $120 to get to the pinball game.

    I practiced on the 60 bet level until I got good enough at the game to win then jumped up to the 300 level.


    I was playing poker in a relatively select cash game and it appeared at one point that a good 2/3 of the table were semi-pro slot hustlers, including 1-2 railbirds. They were actually arguing over entry points. One guy chewed out Allen Kessler for telling all the tourney circuit dealers too much. Haha! I didn't even act like I had any interest in the subject. I was just in awww at how many people were aware of this stuff. They were also talking about this pinball game which I believe may have been in that casino.

    This is an IGT game. You'll find this all over. This is what you hear from the guys trying to change Vegas laws and so forth to allow this. I mean, they're more legitimate big 4 game manufacturers. Games are far more professional.

    There is a second kind of skill based slot machine, and that is what is more for what I'd call regulatory entrepreneurial slots. They're very localized to states usually. These are the slots you find in the gas stations/bars that are either illegal or gray area. Basically, some loop in the state hole makes them somewhat difficult to prosecute. If you google these types of slots you'll actually get ads on google trying to sell you cabinets !

    Anyway, this is my take on the matter after googling/observing, I am not expressing expertise in the above subject.

    Good job practicing the pinball game at the low bet.
    Last edited by accountinquestion; 09-21-2019 at 09:06 AM.

  5. #5
    I guess the Texas Tea will never be found in NV unless those laws changed without my knowing. I listened to some youtube of a CEO guy talking about how this certain NV state bill would allow varying payouts. (Not sure what happened to it?) It was so weird how he sold the story. It is obvious to most here that existing machines in NV do have variable payouts. (or otherwise we'd never have MCs of the world) The way the CEO game type guy said it, I wouldn't expect Texas Tea to be in NV, but maybe I am wrong? Has anyone seen this game in NV? I believe it was in OK.

    It seems any of these real skill games are APable if done by a real company. The "skill games" that are done at the county/state level for bars/gas stations are basic bullshit "skill" to get around a legal loophope. You'll never find a good spot, but possibly many small ones. Contrast that to these IGT skill games. One just needs to find the jurisdiction that allows these games and this may be a new generation of slots akin to bankable/accumulator type games.


    I played a machine in a gas station to see how the skill aspect worked. It didn't have nudges. "PA LIVE" I believe is the game. It did like a random tic-tac-toe simikar to reels, you hit the one for the wild spot to possibly make a winner. I think it'd lock up the spin button so people couldn't accidentally miss their chance to use their skill. (haha)

    However, the really interesting aspect of this was they had this Simon Says type game you could play for free independently. Remember the game from 80s with 4 flashing lights and you had to push & repeat in ever increasing sequence? Well obviously super easy to cheat assigning # to each light. So this game had a way to get free credits. It was so strange. My gf pulled out her phone and we cheated our way to winning. It had these "intermissions". The first was on light 5. Towards 15-20 there are intermissions near constantly. At first we thought that it was to help people forget and thus do it incorrectly, but the intermissions also serve as a counter-measure against people who are willing to go through 20 patterns for .42. We didn't time how long it took, because I didn't expect the intermission, I was just wanting a count of how long the sequence would be and what we'd win. Without the intermissions one might be able to net minmum wage, but intermissions probably cut it way way down.

    Anyway, just my thoughts I don't expect anyone to find any value in this, but I always like reading people's stuff.

    In the state I live in, you would give you a free dollar on your card every day for asking. In my county which is more strict, they switched from the traditional statewide lottery/donation system, to this "promotional dollars" system after a county case. The bartender guy (who knows me by Wild Turkey) explained it all to me,. Quite a serious lecture, I think he gives it to most people. It isn't gambling! You buy coins that you use to buy online music with. (Infact, they really want you to buy the music I suspect as it'd strengthen their case) To help promote the music, they give you these promotional dollars to gamble with but don't call it gambling. This is basically the approach of global poker used (the recent facebook centric one for any poker players out there.). They'll let you buy trinkets etc.. I know lots of you guys out there know what I'm talking about. There are slot sites that utilize this type system to allow gambling. The whole thing is weird and confusing.

    There are the 3 elements of what makes something gambling. Just get you a county judge to say your games aren't gambling games then it makes it a PITA for the DA to go after you. All this weird things have some purpose. The Simon Says thing means you don't have to actually put up something to wager, since you can get a free stake. Much like the free dollar on your card in lots of other areas of the state.

    In theory I suspect one could possibly find +EV times on these lottery slots if you were able to know when the ticket pool reset and kept track of what was won.

    This stuff fascinates me if anyone wishes to correct me or tell me I'm wrong about shit. Please do.

    BTW found almost nothing to vulture cept ultimate X in PA and those had been recently picked. I did find "Three Kings" and I didn't have my notes with me, so I just ploppied my ass down because they were in flames. Lol got lucky then get back to room and read up it isn't an AP game in general. haha oh well.
    Last edited by accountinquestion; 09-21-2019 at 11:24 AM.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Advantageplay View Post
    What?????? What you talking about Mickey? Those are pinball?
    I was referring to the links I put up, except I forgot to put up the Cleo link.
    Luck is probability taken personally.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I guess the Texas Tea will never be found in NV unless those laws changed without my knowing. I listened to some youtube of a CEO guy talking abo
    ut how this certain NV state bill would allow varying payouts. (Not sure what happened to it?) It was so weird how he sold the story. It is obvious to most here that existing machines in NV do have variable payouts. (or otherwise we'd never have MCs of the world) The way the CEO game type guy said it, I wouldn't expect Texas Tea to be in NV, but maybe I am wrong? Has anyone seen this game in NV? I believe it was in OK.

    It seems any of these real skill games are APable if done by a real company. The "skill games" that are done at the county/state level for bars/gas stations are basic bullshit "skill" to get around a legal loophope. You'll never find a good spot, but possibly many small ones. Contrast that to these IGT skill games. One just needs to find the jurisdiction that allows these games and this may be a new generation of slots akin to bankable/accumulator type games.


    I played a machine in a gas station to see how the skill aspect worked. It didn't have nudges. "PA LIVE" I believe is the game. It did like a random tic-tac-toe simikar to reels, you hit the one for the wild spot to possibly make a winner. I think it'd lock up the spin button so people couldn't accidentally miss their chance to use their skill. (haha)

    However, the really interesting aspect of this was they had this Simon Says type game you could play for free independently. Remember the game from 80s with 4 flashing lights and you had to push & repeat in ever increasing sequence? Well obviously super easy to cheat assigning # to each light. So this game had a way to get free credits. It was so strange. My gf pulled out her phone and we cheated our way to winning. It had these "intermissions". The first was on light 5. Towards 15-20 there are intermissions near constantly. At first we thought that it was to help people forget and thus do it incorrectly, but the intermissions also serve as a counter-measure against people who are willing to go through 20 patterns for .42. We didn't time how long it took, because I didn't expect the intermission, I was just wanting a count of how long the sequence would be and what we'd win. Without the intermissions one might be able to net minmum wage, but intermissions probably cut it way way down.

    Anyway, just my thoughts I don't expect anyone to find any value in this, but I always like reading people's stuff.

    In the state I live in, you would give you a free dollar on your card every day for asking. In my county which is more strict, they switched from the traditional statewide lottery/donation system, to this "promotional dollars" system after a county case. The bartender guy (who knows me by Wild Turkey) explained it all to me,. Quite a serious lecture, I think he gives it to most people. It isn't gambling! You buy coins that you use to buy online music with. (Infact, they really want you to buy the music I suspect as it'd strengthen their case) To help promote the music, they give you these promotional dollars to gamble with but don't call it gambling. This is basically the approach of global poker used (the recent facebook centric one for any poker players out there.). They'll let you buy trinkets etc.. I know lots of you guys out there know what I'm talking about. There are slot sites that utilize this type system to allow gambling. The whole thing is weird and confusing.

    There are the 3 elements of what makes something gambling. Just get you a county judge to say your games aren't gambling games then it makes it a PITA for the DA to go after you. All this weird things have some purpose. The Simon Says thing means you don't have to actually put up something to wager, since you can get a free stake. Much like the free dollar on your card in lots of other areas of the state.

    In theory I suspect one could possibly find +EV times on these lottery slots if you were able to know when the ticket pool reset and kept track of what was won.

    This stuff fascinates me if anyone wishes to correct me or tell me I'm wrong about shit. Please do.

    BTW found almost nothing to vulture cept ultimate X in PA and those had been recently picked. I did find "Three Kings" and I didn't have my notes with me, so I just ploppied my ass down because they were in flames. Lol got lucky then get back to room and read up it isn't an AP game in general. haha oh well.
    Best Three Kings game is 91.98%. With all meters capped its at 96.6%.
    Luck is probability taken personally.

  8. #8
    Only one pinball left in New Mexico and not many left in Oklahoma.
    Luck is probability taken personally.

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