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Thread: Quick Hits Platinum 5QH/6QH +EV midrange double meter combos

  1. #1
    For the $1.50 max bet penny denom Quick Hit Platinum (along with it's various skins), I plotted (please see below) some bi-variate (5QH Meter and 6QH Meter) scenarios (the underlying data used to construct the plot is also shown) where the machine goes +EV so that players could find more situations than just looking at the 5QH Meter to see if its a play or 6QH Meter to see if its a play. In combination, one doesn't have to have such an extreme case of one meter or the other getting big enough. Every 196 spins or so on average, the player will catch the 5QH or 6QH progressive. Please let me know if anyone has any questions.

    Regards, TP.

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  2. #2
    You signed your post TP, lol.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    You signed your post TP, lol.
    I'm guessing that's for tableplay and not toilet paper.

  4. #4
    Thanks for this. How often would you say these plays come up?

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Thanks for this. How often would you say these plays come up?
    I'm not sure. It would depend on the number of machines in place and activity. I saw a $37 (reset $15) on the 5QH meter yesterday, but the 6QH wasn't strong ($88, reset $75) so I decided not to take it. I would suggest, not necessarily seeking them out, but if things are slow, or while you're on your way to something, to always check the 5QH and 6QH meters. Hopefully the mid-range double meter info will add to the times there's a play.
    A study of meter growth on the 5QH and 6QH meters would be helpful since then the probability of a plays occurring could be calculated.
    But I have not taken a look at the meter growth. If someone knows the growth rate I can do some calculations.

  6. #6
    This is very nice -- thanks TP.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by kuma View Post
    This is very nice -- thanks TP.
    Sure no problem Kuma.

  8. #8
    I don't pay much attention to the quick hits because it's just a once in awhile play. I think the bottom meter runs at 1%. I'll check next time I'm around one. Just 1% is not conducive to developing plays. Short coiners have the most effect because they are running the meters up without qualifying for anything. I always look at what the others are betting. They get lots of short coin action.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    I don't pay much attention to the quick hits because it's just a once in awhile play. I think the bottom meter runs at 1%. I'll check next time I'm around one. Just 1% is not conducive to developing plays. Short coiners have the most effect because they are running the meters up without qualifying for anything. I always look at what the others are betting. They get lots of short coin action.
    Exactly Mickey - I wouldn't hold my breath finding plays on these. Something you glance at while getting to whatever your destination is. I was hoping that examining (glancing at) both the 5QH and 6QH would move the play from very rare to rare in terms of frequency since both meters don't have to move into the stratosphere (but both do have to be quite high). Also, I made a mistake in stating that I could calculate the frequency of it being a play per what you wrote above - short coiners can't pick off the play, only max betters can - so one can't simply state that if the meters grows from X1 to X2 that Y max bet spins occurred (which would allow a probability calculation like "if the meters grows from X1 to X2, Y spins were made so you have a probability of P to hit it in Y spins - Y cannot be determined")

  10. #10
    There used to be a discussion forum called Slot Machines Forum that discussed these machines extensively. IIRC they had PAR sheets too.
    I had just found the site and was starting to analyze all of it when the forum went away.
    Unfortunately all I remember is free games comes on an average every 81 spins.
    But the analysis of the QH jackpot balances and when they were playable were similar to what Mickey's presented here for other slots. Also similar to how I've seen breakdowns done for VP with multiple progressives.
    Like I recall there were Excel like forms where you could enter the various jackpot balances and it would calculate whether it was an advantage to play or not.

    Just mentioning this in case this rings bells for someone who paid more attention or spent more time reading that forum than I ended up with.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by pkspins View Post
    Unfortunately all I remember is free games comes on an average every 81 spins.
    Hi Pkspins, the free games occur every 96 spins on average:
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  12. #12

  13. #13
    Tableplay-

    I dug up the old WoV thread about this game and noticed that Mission46 was making a mistake in his analysis, if I did not misunderstand him.

    He seemed to be taking the RTP (88% or so in his case) to be the value of the machine with all progressives at reset, but in fact this should be the value of the machine with all progressives at their average value (so halfway between reset and their average hitpoint).

    Did you calculate your numbers his way?

  14. #14
    This post (https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ll=1#post94187), which is the post just before yours, uses the correct formula so the numbers should be good. For example, a 5QH/6QH of $48/$125 would be +EV. Below is the formula used to calculate the bi-variate/double meter +EV situations. I also pasted an Excel excerpt from the data used to generate the bi-variate (5QH/6QH) double meter +EV plot (using the correct forumula).

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  15. #15
    In your spreadsheet you have the 5QH and 6QH at reset yielding a return of .88.

    I believe this is incorrect. If we take 88% to be the RTP (using the lowest value listed on the quasi par sheet), then the RTP should be *less* than 88% when 5QH and 6QH are at reset and the other meters are at random values.

    This is because the RTP is based on the average value of the meters, not the reset values (which are below average).

    It's a little more intuitive if you think of the hold instead of the return. If a slot is set to hold 12% (the hold if it returns 88% to the player), then it should be holding 12% in its average state over time. If it were holding 12% with all meters at reset it would be holding far less than 12% on average.

    Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your analysis.

  16. #16
    I went back and looked at the original WoV thread. They are doing it wrong.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    In your spreadsheet you have the 5QH and 6QH at reset yielding a return of .88.

    I believe this is incorrect. If we take 88% to be the RTP (using the lowest value listed on the quasi par sheet), then the RTP should be *less* than 88% when 5QH and 6QH are at reset and the other meters are at random values.

    This is because the RTP is based on the average value of the meters, not the reset values (which are below average).

    It's a little more intuitive if you think of the hold instead of the return. If a slot is set to hold 12% (the hold if it returns 88% to the player), then it should be holding 12% in its average state over time. If it were holding 12% with all meters at reset it would be holding far less than 12% on average.

    Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your analysis.
    The quasi par sheet, as you refer to it, shows the minimal returns (and thus maximal holds) for various chips. The return cannot be lower than this. The lowest return would be at reset. Please the annotated quasi par sheet screen shot below. Furthermore, Mission actually called ballytech (https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...ty/#post267160) to confirm that the base game RTP only includes the reset value of the progressives. - please see the annotated screen shot below the 1st annotated screen shot.
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  18. #18
    For some reason your annotated pictures are not showing up for me but let me ask you a question that may help settle this.

    Do you know how much total money is added to the several meters per dollar wagered?

    I don't know because I haven't played the game. I looked on YouTube a bit but didn't see a video that was recording the meters.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    For some reason your annotated pictures are not showing up for me but let me ask you a question that may help settle this.

    Do you know how much total money is added to the several meters per dollar wagered?

    I don't know because I haven't played the game. I looked on YouTube a bit but didn't see a video that was recording the meters.
    Here are the reposted attachments (did the link to Mission's post not work as well ?). I believe the max wager of $1.50 adds 1 cent to the 5QH meter - I don't know how much is added to the other meters. I was hoping this link,https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...ty/#post267160, posted above, would have settled things, since the bally technician Mission spoke to stated explicitly, on the phone, that the progressives at reset are included in the base RTP, so that anything beyond this, that is added to the progressives, will enhance the RTP.
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  20. #20
    Greetings!

    I'm sorry I haven't been here for awhile. I should first give a shoutout to MickeyCrimm and say I'm glad to hear he is still with us and still kicking ass!

    I just wanted to confirm that I did indeed speak to someone at Bally at the time and that is what I was told. The thing everyone needs to understand is that not every Bally Quick Hits Platinum machine is necessarily set to have the progressives turned on, some of them ONLY have the base jackpots, so the 88.05% return is the lowest possible return setting of that particular model and game title.

    We also notice that the Free Games Bonus Feature occurs, invariably, every 96 plays. Further, that the overall hit frequency is unchanged. That is interesting because it would mean that any return change could be done without impacting the overall hit rate at all. If I had to guess, I would think the overall return is changed by way of the Free Games returns by way of the reel strips during Free Games. You could theoretically switch some symbols to other symbols in the main game to lower the return with an unchanged overall hit rate, but that seems unlikely.

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