Nothing is impossible

[kewlJ]

All that wordsmithing does nothing to mitigate that it's really all about the money for any gambler. What you're implying is people go to work each day not for the money, but for some obscure type of job-satisfaction and to have realized a "thrilling" experience of sorts.

Gambling 101: WIN OR GO HOME!

Rob, YOU are the wordsmith. You frequently twist peoples words or take things out of context, just as Alan used to. You did it this morning. I didn't say AP don't care about the money. Of course we do. I believe I said "the more the better". But money is not the driving force for most that choose AP (sometimes it becomes so later on), but not initially. Like I said, it is widely believed that anyone that is a successful AP could earn more money doing something else.

AS for your Gambling 101 statement: That is exactly what it is... a Gamblers or losing player mentality statement. You have given a perfect example. No real AP would ever think like that or say such a stupid thing. Your whole "system", progressive wagering is that of a losing player, with a losing player mentality, chasing losses. Anyway you dress it up and do your hocus pocus voodoo of stop limits and "special plays" only adds to the goofiness.

I guess the one thing you have been honest about is that you were a losing player and failed AP because you never lost that losing gambler mentality. The rest is fantasy land.

umm....wise up!

[redietz]

Frankly, "Singer" doesn't know what he's talking about. At all.

Me personally, I stopped getting "thrilled" by winning money when I was about 17. I also remember being in Las Vegas for the Rams playoff run when I had them at odds from 100-1 to 300-1 (they beat the Titans). I had to acknowledge that I really was a cold-blooded professional when my focus was not on the mega-profit in my sights, but on getting the best odds on the Raiders to win the AFC and SB for the following year. It was all just "doing the job," more or less. No thrills, no chills.

P.S. Raiders made it to the AFC title game the following year. I made a small profit. Some of my tickets were at the Desert Inn, which had the best odds. The Desert Inn closed in the interim, however, and I had a wonderful adventure verifying that I'd get paid if the tickets won. Not as easy as Gaming Control always says. I also had some year-old tickets turn black because they had been printed on bad ticket paper. Had to verify all tickets at the original books, which was another adventure. I learned a lot.

[Rob.Singer]

Now there's a pair that couldn't beat a full house it they whined and tried....

Kew's all over the map--one that time and again exposes him for the concocted internet fraud he is. And redietz keeps trying to string together what to him must be an articulation-laced set of words, only to make yet a bigger fool of himself. Let me see if I've got this: "it ain't no big thang if I don't win money gambling. I get enuf to allow my meager existence to let my childless/wifeless life scrape by thru other means, and if I sound stupid saying this I KNOW that idiot kew (and I really do look at him as an idiot) will make another thousand word rambling post supporting my dirty underwear if I needed him to

And even when he doesn't just come right out and say it, he does. Redietz wants to tag you for your money like he kept trying to solicit me for, by trying to impress upon you that he has the ability to make TONS of it gambling, but he instead chooses to enjoy everything BUT making money.

Weird. Just plain weird.

[redietz]

Now there's a pair that couldn't beat a full house it they whined and tried....

Kew's all over the map--one that time and again exposes him for the concocted internet fraud he is. And redietz keeps trying to string together what to him must be an articulation-laced set of words, only to make yet a bigger fool of himself. Let me see if I've got this: "it ain't no big thang if I don't win money gambling. I get enuf to allow my meager existence to let my childless/wifeless life scrape by thru other means, and if I sound stupid saying this I KNOW that idiot kew (and I really do look at him as an idiot) will make another thousand word rambling post supporting my dirty underwear if I needed him to

And even when he doesn't just come right out and say it, he does. Redietz wants to tag you for your money like he kept trying to solicit me for, by trying to impress upon you that he has the ability to make TONS of it gambling, but he instead chooses to enjoy everything BUT making money.

Weird. Just plain weird.

If "Singer" or anyone on these forums all these years, has a single email or PM describing a solicitation from me, I'll pay them 5K directly through Dan. I'm talking one. One single solicitation. Now I'm not sure what "Singer's" response to that offer might be, but you know what? If he doesn't take me up on it, he must not have a love of money. He just must not care about money at all. But wait, didn't he just say it's all about the money? LOL.

C'mon, Rob, Let's hear your response, my friend.

I'm going to PM Dan about stashing a check on file with him so this issue can be addressed for all time. Rob, you can take your time finding that solicitation from me. I'll make sure the check is waiting for you with Dan.

And Rob, you had to know this would be my response. You post about thrills and loving money, and now you're gonna have to turn down a free 5K. Don't you think before you post? You're either a lying douche bag because you never received a solicitation from me or you're a lying douche bag because it must not be all about the money. You just made a horse's ass out of yourself...again.

[Rob.Singer]

Nah....I'll.pass on that offer. I don't like money. I just find incredible enjoyment and get gobs of satisfaction out of explaining the solicitations. Us pros never do it for the money.

[redietz]

Nah....I'll.pass on that offer. I don't like money. I just find incredible enjoyment and get gobs of satisfaction out of explaining the solicitations. Us pros never do it for the money.

That was lame...even for you.

Give my regards to AndrewG on your way out, my friend. LOL.

[AxelWolf]

Now there's a pair that couldn't beat a full house it they whined and tried....

Kew's all over the map--one that time and again exposes him for the concocted internet fraud he is. And redietz keeps trying to string together what to him must be an articulation-laced set of words, only to make yet a bigger fool of himself. Let me see if I've got this: "it ain't no big thang if I don't win money gambling. I get enuf to allow my meager existence to let my childless/wifeless life scrape by thru other means, and if I sound stupid saying this I KNOW that idiot kew (and I really do look at him as an idiot) will make another thousand word rambling post supporting my dirty underwear if I needed him to

And even when he doesn't just come right out and say it, he does. Redietz wants to tag you for your money like he kept trying to solicit me for, by trying to impress upon you that he has the ability to make TONS of it gambling, but he instead chooses to enjoy everything BUT making money.

Weird. Just plain weird.

If "Singer" or anyone on these forums all these years, has a single email or PM describing a solicitation from me, I'll pay them 5K directly through Dan. I'm talking one. One single solicitation. Now I'm not sure what "Singer's" response to that offer might be, but you know what? If he doesn't take me up on it, he must not have a love of money. He just must not care about money at all. But wait, didn't he just say it's all about the money? LOL.

C'mon, Rob, Let's hear your response, my friend.

I'm going to PM Dan about stashing a check on file with him so this issue can be addressed for all time. Rob, you can take your time finding that solicitation from me. I'll make sure the check is waiting for you with Dan.

And Rob, you had to know this would be my response. You post about thrills and loving money, and now you're gonna have to turn down a free 5K. Don't you think before you post? You're either a lying douche bag because you never received a solicitation from me or you're a lying douche bag because it must not be all about the money. You just made a horse's ass out of yourself...again.

Has anyone ever approached you? I know you don't deal with peons but I'm just curious if anyone has ever contacted you looking to get in on some action somehow.

[redietz]

Now there's a pair that couldn't beat a full house it they whined and tried....

Kew's all over the map--one that time and again exposes him for the concocted internet fraud he is. And redietz keeps trying to string together what to him must be an articulation-laced set of words, only to make yet a bigger fool of himself. Let me see if I've got this: "it ain't no big thang if I don't win money gambling. I get enuf to allow my meager existence to let my childless/wifeless life scrape by thru other means, and if I sound stupid saying this I KNOW that idiot kew (and I really do look at him as an idiot) will make another thousand word rambling post supporting my dirty underwear if I needed him to

And even when he doesn't just come right out and say it, he does. Redietz wants to tag you for your money like he kept trying to solicit me for, by trying to impress upon you that he has the ability to make TONS of it gambling, but he instead chooses to enjoy everything BUT making money.

Weird. Just plain weird.

If "Singer" or anyone on these forums all these years, has a single email or PM describing a solicitation from me, I'll pay them 5K directly through Dan. I'm talking one. One single solicitation. Now I'm not sure what "Singer's" response to that offer might be, but you know what? If he doesn't take me up on it, he must not have a love of money. He just must not care about money at all. But wait, didn't he just say it's all about the money? LOL.

C'mon, Rob, Let's hear your response, my friend.

I'm going to PM Dan about stashing a check on file with him so this issue can be addressed for all time. Rob, you can take your time finding that solicitation from me. I'll make sure the check is waiting for you with Dan.

And Rob, you had to know this would be my response. You post about thrills and loving money, and now you're gonna have to turn down a free 5K. Don't you think before you post? You're either a lying douche bag because you never received a solicitation from me or you're a lying douche bag because it must not be all about the money. You just made a horse's ass out of yourself...again.

Has anyone ever approached you? I know you don't deal with peons but I'm just curious if anyone has ever I'll post you looking to get in on some action somehow.

I have about all I can handle. The people I have are all eight-year-plus guys, I think, and I'm not really looking to add anybody right now. Maybe in a couple of years, when the smoke clears on which states take how much and all that. I want to get my blog rolling and work on some book-type material, and that'll be my off-season focus.

What I do is really a "hundred-day-war" as I mention in the Wise Guys notes in the sports section here. Usually 90% of my action any given year is on college football. So I'm not really a year-round player at all. This year, it'll wind up being more like 80%, but that's because not much was bettable in college football. Back when I spent 90-100 days a year in Las Vegas, it was get there mid-August, head for home Thanksgiving week.

I used to have a question I asked people who approached me. I'd just casually say, "How do you feel about losing 10 in a row?" If they did a double take or kind of choked, the discussion was over. If they said something along the lines of, "Well, it's okay if it sets up things down the road" or something like that, the discussion continued. I wasn't really being a wise-ass. I just wanted them to know I wasn't the guy who screams that he wins 70% or anything like that.

Thanks for offering. The only folks I'd consider adding right now, I would have had to know for around a decade. Everybody has to trust everybody, and on the occasions something goes sideways (like Millennium Sports owner getting sacked when his flight landed in Texas), you've gotta be with people who can shrug it off. That was actually the only time anything went sideways, by the way. The people I work with now are really a team of sorts, and they all know their stuff and then some.

[RS__]

Redeitz, what is it that you do? I'm not asking because I want "in" on what you're doing, just curious. Sorry if you explained it earlier in this thread, I ain't reading all this, just skimming though.

Do you sell picks? Are you doing what Billy Walters did and have runners placing bets and stuff for/with you? Or is it something else like Fantasy Leagues / Contests / etc.?

[redietz]

Redeitz, what is it that you do? I'm not asking because I want "in" on what you're doing, just curious. Sorry if you explained it earlier in this thread, I ain't reading all this, just skimming though.

Do you sell picks? Are you doing what Billy Walters did and have runners placing bets and stuff for/with you? Or is it something else like Fantasy Leagues / Contests / etc.?

I'm a handicapper who handles a team of people. For college football and the NFL, I do most, but not all, of the wagering. I was one of Marc Lawrence's stable of handicappers 10+ years ago. Before that I was independent, spending 90-100 days a year (college football season) in Las Vegas. I had one interesting experience as one of Billy Walters' consultants in 2002.

The main reason for the transition from charging an annual fee to hands-on is that college point spreads are no longer static things. They move a lot, much more than 25 years ago. When you bet is almost as crucial as who you bet in the 21st century, at least college-wise.

Here's my blog. I haven't done anything for more than a month because I've been nose down into the football season, but I should begin posting an article every week or more: https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot.com/2019/05

I don't currently have a website, but still maintain the name, so if you go to the wayback archives, you can check out the very basic www.IntegritySports.com. I'll get that up and running in 2020.

On the Retro Road Trip thread on this site, mickey crimm helped me post some entries out of the old "Tipsters or Gypsters?" from the 80's and 90's. It was an annual review of sports handicappers published by former Seattle Times reporter, Mike McCusker.

[kewlJ]

For years Rob has attacked redietz saying that Redietz has solicited Rob and others privately in regards to his handicapping. Redietz has strongly denied this. While I can't swear about it, I see no evidence that he did and in usual Singer fashion, he has shown absolutely no proof. He just smears people.

I will offer this in Redietz defense. As a small and occasional recreational sportsbetter, I have dropped a hint or two to Redietz about throwing a pick my way. He has never offered to do so. I mean you would think that a perfect time to solicit someone for your services and he didn't do that.

Bottom line. It just isn't fair to allow Rob to smear and attack people's reputations like he does with lies and then when you challenge him to prove these accusations, he can't and won't. This guy is a sleasebag. Time to put an end to it.

[redietz]

I don't even know where "Singer's" head is sometimes. Up his ass? Why would he claim that I solicited him, knowing he doesn't have a single shred of evidence to back it up? What, he expects nobody to actually ask him, "Hey, can you show that email, PM, text were redietz solicited you?" I just do not get it.

There's nothing inherently wrong with handicappers soliciting clients. I just haven't done it for many years, and I never did it, ever, via text or PM or email or phone, so I take issue with someone making stuff up.

It's just ridiculous.

[pepe]

Is there a chance that a suicide fired three gunshots into his own heart? Yes, and the case is documented. Is there a chance a suicide fired three shots into his own head? Yes, and documented again.

Is it possible that a guy who was involved in handling some very shady shit for some very powerful people took a roll of toiletpaper and hung himself with it by doing a somersault off a bunk bed at the exact moment the guards fell asleep and the cameras just happened to go out in his cell? Yes, and documented.

[pepe]

You can read the coroner's reports on the suicides that required three bullets to the heart and to the head. Those reports are good examples of why you shouldn't jump to conclusions.

If I read a coroner's report on a suicide that required 3 bullets to the heart and the head, I figure the person who committed suicide had information that could lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton.

[AxelWolf]

There's nothing inherently wrong with handicappers soliciting clients.

That's where most people will absolutely disagree with you( unless inherently means something different to other's).


Unfortunately, some people just don't realize just how scammy the sports touting and soliciting business actually is.

Is there any sports service guys or whatever you want to call them willing to pay all my losses for half my winnings assuming I follow all their picks and advice over the course of 2 years (or whatever it take to almost guarantee a profit) This would actually not be that hard.

As an AP I would absolutely be willing to make that deal with the stuff I play if they played exactly everything the way I did/do/how I directed them.

[redietz]

There's nothing inherently wrong with handicappers soliciting clients.

That's where most people will absolutely disagree with you( unless inherently means something different to other's).


Unfortunately, some people just don't realize just how scammy the sports touting and soliciting business actually is.

Is there any sports service guys or whatever you want to call them willing to pay all my losses for half my winnings assuming I follow all their picks and advice over the course of 2 years (or whatever it take to almost guarantee a profit) This would actually not be that hard.

As an AP I would absolutely be willing to make that deal with the stuff I play if they played exactly everything the way I did/do/how I directed them.

I was using a general cultural perspective when saying "there's nothing inherently wrong." From my personal perspective, I think target pop-ups on the internet and algorithms on Facebook are inherently wrong, much more so than something as obvious (though annoying) as a telemarketer tout. I personally believe that convincing people they need things or services that they really do not is bad, no matter its form.

I don't have a mechanism to judge what's worse. Sleazebags like the dude who claimed to be a super-handicapper on "Money Talks" are the worst of the worse. The show was horrific claptrap. But these guys are such obvious clowns, I'm not sure how much damage they can do. Is it worse than reality shows featuring psychics? I don't know. Is the sleaze rip-off spiel of "Steve Stephens" worse than mass franchise comfort food sellers whose effect is to create a two-thirds obese population? I do not know. Is "Steve Stephens" worse than any tobacco exec in what effects he causes? I doubt it.

At one time, I thought the sports handicapping field was about 98% scam nonsense. Now I'd say it's probably 80% scam nonsense, not necessarily because handicappers became more virtuous, but because the public slowly has learned, for the most part, what is or is not possible.

My personal orientation is that the majority of goods and services we buy are unnecessary nonsense. So I guess that would make anyone pitching them scam artists, in a sense. I mean, really, almost all ads that use famous pitchmen can be considered scams, and maybe worse than "Steve Stephens" because he's such an obvious idiot.

I think all cold calls are wrong. I think pop-up ads are wrong. I think cookies to track people are wrong. They are all invasions of privacy. I think a lot of things are wrong.

P.S. Axel, that last line of your post made me chuckle. Back in the day, do you know how frustrating it was to make money for people on Saturday, knowing full well they would blow it all on Sunday or on the Monday night game? People rarely do exactly what you tell them.

[tableplay]

You can read the coroner's reports on the suicides that required three bullets to the heart and to the head. Those reports are good examples of why you shouldn't jump to conclusions.

If I read a coroner's report on a suicide that required 3 bullets to the heart and the head, I figure the person who committed suicide had information that could lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton.

AKA "Suicided". Seth Rich comes to mind.

[AxelWolf]

There's nothing inherently wrong with handicappers soliciting clients.

That's where most people will absolutely disagree with you( unless inherently means something different to other's).


Unfortunately, some people just don't realize just how scammy the sports touting and soliciting business actually is.

Is there any sports service guys or whatever you want to call them willing to pay all my losses for half my winnings assuming I follow all their picks and advice over the course of 2 years (or whatever it take to almost guarantee a profit) This would actually not be that hard.

As an AP I would absolutely be willing to make that deal with the stuff I play if they played exactly everything the way I did/do/how I directed them.

I was using a general cultural perspective when saying "there's nothing inherently wrong." From my personal perspective, I think target pop-ups on the internet and algorithms on Facebook are inherently wrong, much more so than something as obvious (though annoying) as a telemarketer tout. I personally believe that convincing people they need things or services that they really do not is bad, no matter its form.

I don't have a mechanism to judge what's worse. Sleazebags like the dude who claimed to be a super-handicapper on "Money Talks" are the worst of the worse. The show was horrific claptrap. But these guys are such obvious clowns, I'm not sure how much damage they can do. Is it worse than reality shows featuring psychics? I don't know. Is the sleaze rip-off spiel of "Steve Stephens" worse than mass franchise comfort food sellers whose effect is to create a two-thirds obese population? I do not know. Is "Steve Stephens" worse than any tobacco exec in what effects he causes? I doubt it.

At one time, I thought the sports handicapping field was about 98% scam nonsense. Now I'd say it's probably 80% scam nonsense, not necessarily because handicappers became more virtuous, but because the public slowly has learned, for the most part, what is or is not possible.

My personal orientation is that the majority of goods and services we buy are unnecessary nonsense. So I guess that would make anyone pitching them scam artists, in a sense. I mean, really, almost all ads that use famous pitchmen can be considered scams, and maybe worse than "Steve Stephens" because he's such an obvious idiot.

I think all cold calls are wrong. I think pop-up ads are wrong. I think cookies to track people are wrong. They are all invasions of privacy. I think a lot of things are wrong.

P.S. Axel, that last line of your post made me chuckle. Back in the day, do you know how frustrating it was to make money for people on Saturday, knowing full well they would blow it all on Sunday or on the Monday night game? People rarely do exactly what you tell them.

FYI I have been touting the runner for a long time, mainly because the Asian dealer scene other than some gambling aspects I don't know that I would rate the movie as a really good movie overall. I just mentioned over on Wizard of Vegas forum prior to being suspended it's actually on Amazon Prime video right now. I watch the blackjack scene and it wasn't as good as I remembered it. I swear I saw some piggy bank machines in it.
Obviously, I don't know everybody, but everybody I know that actually makes good money sports betting doesn't sell or tout their pics they basically just bet them themselves. Still looking for somebody that's so confident in their Sports betting abilities they'd be willing to take the deal I mentioned above.

[redietz]

That's where most people will absolutely disagree with you( unless inherently means something different to other's).


Unfortunately, some people just don't realize just how scammy the sports touting and soliciting business actually is.

Is there any sports service guys or whatever you want to call them willing to pay all my losses for half my winnings assuming I follow all their picks and advice over the course of 2 years (or whatever it take to almost guarantee a profit) This would actually not be that hard.

As an AP I would absolutely be willing to make that deal with the stuff I play if they played exactly everything the way I did/do/how I directed them.

I was using a general cultural perspective when saying "there's nothing inherently wrong." From my personal perspective, I think target pop-ups on the internet and algorithms on Facebook are inherently wrong, much more so than something as obvious (though annoying) as a telemarketer tout. I personally believe that convincing people they need things or services that they really do not is bad, no matter its form.

I don't have a mechanism to judge what's worse. Sleazebags like the dude who claimed to be a super-handicapper on "Money Talks" are the worst of the worse. The show was horrific claptrap. But these guys are such obvious clowns, I'm not sure how much damage they can do. Is it worse than reality shows featuring psychics? I don't know. Is the sleaze rip-off spiel of "Steve Stephens" worse than mass franchise comfort food sellers whose effect is to create a two-thirds obese population? I do not know. Is "Steve Stephens" worse than any tobacco exec in what effects he causes? I doubt it.

At one time, I thought the sports handicapping field was about 98% scam nonsense. Now I'd say it's probably 80% scam nonsense, not necessarily because handicappers became more virtuous, but because the public slowly has learned, for the most part, what is or is not possible.

My personal orientation is that the majority of goods and services we buy are unnecessary nonsense. So I guess that would make anyone pitching them scam artists, in a sense. I mean, really, almost all ads that use famous pitchmen can be considered scams, and maybe worse than "Steve Stephens" because he's such an obvious idiot.

I think all cold calls are wrong. I think pop-up ads are wrong. I think cookies to track people are wrong. They are all invasions of privacy. I think a lot of things are wrong.

P.S. Axel, that last line of your post made me chuckle. Back in the day, do you know how frustrating it was to make money for people on Saturday, knowing full well they would blow it all on Sunday or on the Monday night game? People rarely do exactly what you tell them.

FYI I have been touting the runner for a long time, mainly because the Asian dealer scene other than some gambling aspects I don't know that I would rate the movie as a really good movie overall. I just mentioned over on Wizard of Vegas forum prior to being suspended it's actually on Amazon Prime video right now. I watch the blackjack scene and it wasn't as good as I remembered it. I swear I saw some piggy bank machines in it.
Obviously, I don't know everybody, but everybody I know that actually makes good money sports betting doesn't sell or tout their pics they basically just bet them themselves. Still looking for somebody that's so confident in their Sports betting abilities they'd be willing to take the deal I mentioned above.

Well, I'm not "selling picks," so I guess I'm one of them. I'm not sure what "tout their picks" means, but if you're in public competitions, your plays are there for everyone to see. Disavowing yourself of them, as if they were an IMF team, makes no sense to me. If people could effectively data mine me and profile me, I wouldn't make plays public. But I really cannot be profiled in any specific way. I can be generally profiled in that I historically take 70% underdogs and 75% road teams, but there is no evident method to the madness. I could turn around tomorrow and take a dozen consecutive favorites or home teams.

Other random notes:

I work on a percent-of-profit basis with everyone getting the same plays unless they opt out of certain sub-categories, like middle shots or futures, so if I don't win, I make nothing. And every six or seven years, I lose and make nothing. That's the way it works in reality-land.

As far as self-promotion goes, I didn't mention what I do on this forum for more than 2000 posts. It was only after "Singer" started posting about his sports betting brilliance and giving idiot advice that I opened my mouth. Then it became a task to establish that I knew whereof I spoke and he did not.

Since I've never been part of some boiler room operation or anything like that, my perspective may be limited, but I think most of the boiler room stuff pretty much went out the window 20 years ago or more. That kind of nightmare salesmanship is more or less extinct among name handicappers. Most of them are just selling pay-after-you-win plays or weekends, which is simply a way to flip the odds in their favor. Instead of laying 11/10 most of the time, the fact they get paid bonus money if they win flips the numbers into advantage play land. The weeks they lose, they pay the 11; the weeks they win, when you tally in the pay-after-you-win fees, they are getting 12 or more.

Billy Walters made good money for a long while, probably more than anyone in Las Vegas for at least a decade, and he wasn't exactly a quiet dude, so I'm not sure about this under-the-radar stuff. He was never unassuming. When his computer plays dried up, he went to assembling roundtables of experts, and when that started to not be great, he began emphasizing manipulating lines to shoot for massive middles. I suspect, although I do not know for a fact, that most of what he was doing eventually started going south. But not the line manipulations.

People who claim to win long-term at more than one or two sports? Not likely. Billy Walters was not really a handicapper. He was upper management.

P.S. I think The Runner is a really bad movie, but I still think it's a lot of fun.

[AxelWolf]

I really don't know exactly what everyone is doing, touting picks, selling picks, recruiting customers that pay for service packages, getting free roll percentages from investors etc etc. Whatever the case, it's all the same to me no matter how they wrap it up.

If everybody's making money year after year after year with a proven solid record then I don't see how I could have an issue with it. But what I oftentimes see if someone has a good year and suddenly everybody's hooked. Eventually may end up tanking everything averages out and everybody ends up a loser. I've seen too far too often guys are fudging their stats. I don't know, there's all kinds of shenanigans going on.