About That $10,000 Cash Found Inside Two Envelopes In The LV Airport....

[Rob.Singer]

I read about this story on the Internet before seeing the thread full of confused LVA Free For All bazookas discussing it in a thread of their own.

Wondering what I would do with it is a no-brainer, and it is the only common sense choice with #2 a very far distance in the rear. So you're walking through the airport and see two envelopes lying on the floor. You bend over to pick them up. You look inside and are surprised to see what amounts to $5000 in each one. What to do next?

Absolutely nothing. Sit tight as nearby the find as possible, then wait 30 minutes--all the while HOPING the loser doesn't show up looking for his or her envelopes. If they do, you of course tell them the good news and hand the envelopes over for two reasons: First, because it's clearly the best & right thing to do for the good of someone else; and next, because you never know if the cameras were watching. The last thing you want is trouble when you just happened upon this issue. If you're lucky you'll get a finder's fee, but you know that won't be much.

However, if no one shows up in those 30 minutes then you are $10,000 better off than you were before. You take it home and accept that there's a very small chance a camera was on you and if so, that you can be identified. I would do nothing with the cash for 30 days just in case. If for some odd reason you ARE identified, the only important thing to all involved is the loser gets that money back. You could easily talk your way around anything as long as the cash is still there. Once it's returned it's over, and you may still get that finder's fee.

Now go look at some of the boob answers about this over on LVA. People turning it into authorities, police, the janitor, and even the Gov't.! What a bunch of idiots! One guy even says to claim it as INCOME on your tax return....

Folks, there are good things and not so good things that happen to everybody in our lives. You play the hands you're dealt. Good things like finding cash is called F-U-N; bad things like losing cash, well, those are THE BREAKS. If you're stupid enough to go LOOKING for a way to give the find up, just remember why you finish last all the time. But if you give the loser a reasonable opportunity to get the loss back, you're doing a good thing while giving yourself and not some agency, the opportunity. And, which entity do you think could use that cash more?

The dufus who actually found this money is as dumb as a rock. He says he wanted to teach his children "how to do the right thing". What a misled fool. All he did was give up cash in a mindless flash that could have really helped his family, and his children are probably mad at him today, then when they grow up they'll laugh at him for being so stupid.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob, to the best of my knowledge, and based on everything I've heard and read, the finder has an obligation to either locate the owner of the lost property or to turn the valuable over to the police. Under various laws, if the owner is not found, the finder of the lost property is entitled to what was found.

Yes, my first attempt would be to see if someone came looking for the envelopes. No, I wouldn't advertise "hey I found two envelopes stuffed with cash," but I would wait to see if someone came and appeared to be looking. If I thought someone was looking for it I would try to ascertain if they were in fact looking for the envelopes by asking them questions about the contents.

If no one appeared -- or if I had a plane to catch at the airport -- I would certainly turn the money in to the police but I would request a receipt and find out the process that the police would use and when it might be "mine" to claim.

[Vegas Vic]

Rob's post tells us everything we need to know about his moral character, mainly that he doesn't have any. To be that greedy and not attempt to locate the rightful owner says one thing, but to call the individual who did the proper thing a "dufus and dumb as a rock" says it all. What a pathetic individual you are, Rob.

[Rob.Singer]

And what you said first is exactly why you do not turn it in to anyone. There may or may not be clear direction on what "the law" says to do, and that's even been confirmed by the various news reports I've seen that all give different guesses. In such a case where the "rules" are ambiguous at best, you always make the "advantage play" by giving youself the most opportunity while knowing if you do get identified then you gave it 30 days.

I don't know the law or if there even is one for this, but if you don't have the confidence to be able to show you're trying to do the right thing while giving yourself a chance for the opportunity, then don't bother picking ANYTHING up ever. Turning in the stuff and not taking advantage of such a break is unnecessary and lame. I've seen enough uncertainty about this type of situation by the legal community on TV to know what the smart thing to do is.

[Rob.Singer]

Rob's post tells us everything we need to know about his moral character, mainly that he doesn't have any. To be that greedy and not attempt to locate the rightful owner says one thing, but to call the individual who did the proper thing a "dufus and dumb as a rock" says it all. What a pathetic individual you are, Rob.

Now there's a helpful serving of brilliance. And people wonder why someone like me, who has no use for safely living in the grey area of cowardice, is able to turn incredible ingenuity into hugely positive situations for me and my family.....and most of the rest of the crowd has a great big problem with my ability to do that because they just can't think it through enough to know better. Point: How many of you would have had the understanding enough to have made even a $100 bet on the 4 team parlay that I put six large on?

Think about it.

[Alan Mendelson]

Would we like to debate something where the law is clear, though people might have a different opinion? Let's talk about finding money inside a casino. I'll give you four possible scenarios:

1. You find $10,000 cash that was left between two slot machines OR it was left on the drink rail under a craps table.
2. You find two $5,000 casino chips on the floor, and people have been walking on them because they just blended in to that casino carpet that is a swirl of colors.
3. You find $1 of credits on a slot machine.
4. You find a cash out ticket for one-cent.

The law is specific in Nevada: all of this money belongs to the casino unless the rightful owner can claim it. None of this money ever belongs to the finder-- even if never claimed by the person who lost it.

So would you have different personal views on any or all four of the scenarios above?

[Alan Mendelson]

There may or may not be clear direction on what "the law" says to do, and that's even been confirmed by the various news reports I've seen that all give different guesses.

That is unfortunate that the news media did not quote the actual law, because there is a specific law about this. And every state has a similar law for lost, unclaimed and abandoned money and assets. Generally the terms of the laws all say this: the rightful owner of the lost, forgotten or misplaced money cannot be denied the money if he can claim it. If it is not claimed after a reasonable period of time, it can be awarded to the person who found it.

[Rob.Singer]

It must be the law you're quoting is as ambiguously understood and followed as the IRS law that states how every casino visit slot win, no matter how large or small, must be reported as income even if no W2G is issued. You go to Caesar's and walk out up $30, that's reportable income. But who does that, and who enforces it?

I've found cash twice in casinos over the years; the first time it was $300 on the floor of Terribles LV as I was walking by an ATM; the next time it was a roll of fifteen $100 bills on a hi-limit vp room chair at the Mirage. The $300 just went into my wallet, and I played at that Mirage machine for 45 minutes before I got up and left with it. I've also lost my wallet at the Ramada Express in Laughlin with $3200 in it years earlier and never got anything back. So if you don't take advantage of opportunities when you're lucky enough to have them appear for you, those "breaks" we all experience will never even out.

That guy who found the 10 grand in LV more than likely wanted to get on TV more than anything else. I saw him on a Reno station up here. The discussion came up at a bar at the Hyatt yesterday, and not one person said they'd have turned it in. And if you know that place you'd be familiar with the upper class feel of the locals who go in there. Every single person laughed at and shook their head at the boob who supposedly just wanted to teach his kids some kind of stupid lesson. Doesn't happen with normal people. Life is a constant, unforgiving game of numbers. Those who understand that and keep ahead of the count in any & every way possible WITHOUT DIRECTLY HURTING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING are the ones who will thrive without ever whining.

[Alan Mendelson]

Let me respond to a couple of points. First about the IRS: yes, if you leave up $30 (no W2G) you are still supposed to report the win. Can it be "enforced?" Probably unlikely unless the IRS goes to great lengths to put you in the slammer. That is our "voluntary tax system" at work in this example.

Technically, if you won a thousand dollars, and then lost it because it fell out of your pocket, you still have the tax liability for the $1,000 casino win. There is also a tax deduction for losses of property, but there is a deductible for losses which goes on Schedule A of $100 per incident, and this can be further reduced according to how Schedule A deductions are treated.

I never found large amounts of cash -- the most I ever found was $3 on a sidewalk in front of my house. I stood there, waiting for a few minutes and even looked up and down the street to see if someone was even walking nearby. I put the $3 in my pocket after a few minutes and went inside.

About ten or eleven years ago I was playing a slot machine (yes, a real slot machine because that's what I played back then even before I played craps for the first time or even knew what VP was) and noticed that there was $350 in credits on the machine next to me. I was with my sister and her husband, and we waited nearly an hour for someone to show up. When no one showed up, we played it. We didn't know anything about the law saying it was the casino's money. I now know that our playing it was against the law and the right thing to do was to notify a floor person, and that's what I would do now. (By the way, if the forgetful player had shown up, I was prepared to reach into my wallet and give them $350 on the spot.)

It's not always about what goes into your own pocket. Sometimes, it all comes down to doing the right thing. If enough people did the right thing the world would be a better place. If someone does the right thing walking through an airport or walking down the street or sitting in a casino, I would think that person would also do the right thing in business and in life in general.

[Rob.Singer]

Doing the right thing is always good, but it may not be the optimal way to go. For instance, the reason I'd take the $10,000 home and wait 30 days instead of turning it in to some black hole, is because if I saw on TV or heard/read about someone who said they lost it where I found it, I would give it back. There's also the camera thing to consider. But in the absence of a claimant after the 30 day wait, the money is far better off with me than lost inside some red tape factory or corrupt system.

The "right thing" is good, but when it comes to simple common sense for your own good, optimal is better.

[redietz]

Well, I have been in a situation or two, which I will not go into here, but it seems to me that the laws are written by the wealthy for the wealthy. Not many poor people misplace 10K, after all. My tendency is to evaluate the person who lost the money, with an eye to who the money means more to. In other words, if Mark Cuban drops 10K on the floor, I'm keeping it, mainly because returning it is just so obvious an attempt to ingratiate myself. If Mother Theresa misplaced the orphanage's food money for the year, I'll return it. Any middle class person who doesn't keep tabs on 10K in cash is either under the influence or so flighty as to be a danger to him/herself.

[Alan Mendelson]

Wow, I don't know what to say redietz? Since when does income level have anything to do with following the law? Is it OK to back into a Bentley in a parking lot and not report it, but you would stick around if you hit a 1987 Toyota to give your insurance info to the owner?

In the first place, if you find money it's not your money to begin with. So why even think about keeping it? If circumstances deem that you should get a reward or that the money should be given to you because the owner can't be found, then you are being rewarded for a good deed.

If we all start making our own rules, when will it stop?

[Rob.Singer]

What redietz is doing is simply using his head instead of allowing dictated direction guide him.

If you find money it is yours unless and until you know who lost it. In redietz's case, he'd go one step further and decide if the loser is too rich to really care about the lost $10k, and I don't really disagree with that position. I don't buy that a finder should always follow the letter of the law, because it's not always the most intelligent path to take. Who doesn't speed? Who doesn't make several passes on their tax returns until it comes out to where you feel most comfortable? Finding cash is just another of these type situations where white lies are the optimal way to go over any other path.

[redietz]

Laws are relative; they change state to state, country to country, decade to decade, century to century. They aren't handed down by a supreme being. I like to think that if I were getting whipped around in a time tunnel, I'd cope wherever and whenever I set foot.

I haven't signed any oath to abide by any particular set of laws, and I don't intend to sign any oath to abide by any particular set of laws.

[Alan Mendelson]

So let's forget the law for a moment, and talk about what you think is the moral, correct thing to do?

By the way, there are speed laws to protect others-- as well as to protect yourself. Although I do challenge those municipalities that set up speed traps with ridiculously low speed limits that are designed only to generate revenue from fines.

And if I invited you over for dinner, would you slip one of the sterling silver spoons into your pocket?

[Rob.Singer]

Speed laws are there to protect everybody, who also happen to be the same ones who violate them daily in order to safely keep up with traffic flow in many cases.

Taking a silver spoon from someone's home is in direct violation of the "don't purposely do harm to anyone" policy that responsible people follow.

That $1500 I found on the chair in the Mirage--what would you have done with it? Turn it into the hi-limit floor supervisor? For what? If the loser didn't realize he or she left it there within the very reasonable 45 minutes I allotted to give it back, why would you want the casino to keep it instead of you?

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob I certainly would have given the cash to a floor person at the casino. You don't know if the other player went to a meal, became ill or simply had forgotten the money but would have come back 12 hours later. It wasn't yours-- period. You had an obligation to turn it in.

And I think that's the bottom line: you have no right to taking found money. Your obligation is to have the owner found or make it possible for the owner to find it.

I feel very strongly about this.

Edited to add: Rob you said that $1500 was in a roll of Benjamins on a chair at the Mirage. Would you have kept that wad of money if, instead of a roll on the chair, it was in a wallet on the chair? What would be the difference to you? if no difference, please explain why?

[Rob.Singer]

I see it as the owner is always the person who has it in their possession--whether bought, found, earned, inherited, or obtained via any other legal means--and if someone can show it was theirs then I have an obligation to return it. If you turn it into a black hole of uncertainty, that can only be because of a fear of something which I'm not familiar with.
This world is tough enough and more than a challenge at times. It's up to the individual to do what they can to help equalize out those breaks I was talking about, and to do so in a noble way. If you're willing to go 1mph over the speed limit and not turn yourself in, you shouldn't be at all intimidated by finding cash on the ground.

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, regarding if that $1500 was in a wallet: I would have tried to contact the owner, and I know eventually I would hear from him or her so I'd just keep it until I could give it back via whatever method. No way would I ever turn it over to some casino employee. I would never trust people on that end of the pay scale in that type of business to do the right thing.

[redietz]

Ah yes, the turning it into the casino option. Here's one story, from a decade ago, that'll creep you out a bit.

I was in the Stratosphere, and went to the men's bathroom near the entrance. It's small, just three stalls, I believe, and nobody was in there. I went into a stall and, tucked into the area with the toilet paper, was a slightly worn wallet. While sitting there, doing my business, I took the wallet from where it was crammed and looked in it. Some money, not much, about $60, and some photos and an ID, from the parole board or something. While sitting in the stall, I thought about taking the wallet to give to casino personnel, but something made me hesitate and I just gently put it back where I had found it.

I heard a voice, "God bless you." It came from the stall next to mine. I still saw no one. The guy had planted the wallet and stood in there with his feet off the floor. He was waiting for someone to take the wallet.

Why? So he could confront the person and demand it back. And then claim money was missing. Or wait until the person was in camera view in the casino and claim I had stolen it when I left to give it to security.

It was a setup, a scam. Being a Good Samaritan would have created a major problem when I step out of that bathroom with the wallet. This guy, who was probably unstable, was running a scam. I was just lucky enough to not fall for it.