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Thread: The "Infamous tap," how do you handle it?

  1. #1
    Disclaimer. I know that I am supposed to cut down on the New Threads thing, but I feel that this is a decent idea for a thread and is not completely stupid like some of my threads are. I actually completely thought this thread through before hitting "Post."

    The "Back off from this game/ the Banned Tap." How do you handle it? I remember a guy saying he felt happy at first when he felt the "tap," as he was winning and as he had been expecting it to be a Friend he had been with getting ready to congratulate him on his winning game but it was instead a "Suit," telling him that he had been put on a watch list for card counting and winning too much and needed to back off the game. His happiness turned to frustration in just seconds as he had to leave the winning game. How do you handle the "Infamous tap?"
    Last edited by Tasha; 12-04-2019 at 04:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Didn't you post this on another forum? A blackjack forum no less? Did you think you didnt get sound advice?

    The answers at BJTF were for the most part spot on. A player with any interest in longevity will exit as quickly and quietly as possible. If you can, don't even cash out chips. The goal is to make yourself and the incident as non-memorable as possible.

    And the real goal is to see that your play has crossed into territory that exceeds that casino's or shift personells comfort level PRIOR to any action taken and avoid that back off altogether.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Didn't you post this on another forum? A blackjack forum no less? Did you think you didnt get sound advice?

    The answers at BJTF were for the most part spot on. A player with any interest in longevity will exit as quickly and quietly as possible. If you can, don't even cash out chips. The goal is to make yourself and the incident as non-memorable as possible.

    And the real goal is to see that your play has crossed into territory that exceeds that casino's or shift personells comfort level PRIOR to any action taken and avoid that back off altogether.
    Yes, I asked this same question on BJTF, but I also wanted to hear VCT Gamblers' thoughts on this.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post

    Yes, I asked this same question on BJTF, but I also wanted to hear VCT Gamblers' thoughts on this.
    But why? Have you ever even played a hand of blackjack Tasha?

  5. #5
    Tasha...just curious. You have a 2 card 12 and the dealer had a 2 showing. Would you hit or stand? Keep in mind the cards have been running good so you don't want to Do anything to break up the flow.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Tasha...just curious. You have a 2 card 12 and the dealer had a 2 showing. Would you hit or stand? Keep in mind the cards have been running good so you don't want to Do anything to break up the flow.
    I would choose hit and hope the next card is a 9 for Blackjack!

  7. #7
    Hit. The dealer is at advantage.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Hit. The dealer is at advantage.
    My reference above was sort of baiting Tasha into the wrong answer with the "flow of the cards comment".

    If you are not counting cards and have no further information about the remaining cards (or the next card), then mathematically "hit" is the best option.

    If you are counting, "hit" is the best option up until a TC of about +3 (hi-lo or equivalent) at which standing becomes the best option. It becomes the best option not only mathematically, but also you don't want to take unnecessary hits in +EV situations. So on borderline plays, you might want to not take a hit just to preserve cards. Not hitting 1 or 2 cards may allow for an extra round at your max bet +EV situation and that is worth far more than the few cents that a borderline hit is worth.

    And finally on some of these borderline plays, like 12 vs 2, 12 vs 3, 16 vs 10 it is best play the same hands the same all the time rather than hit sometimes and stand others according to the count. There is a very minimal cost to this but a bigger reward in terms of longevity. There is a strategy known as "card counters basic strategy", in which you determine the correct play at TC's of say +3 or more and always play it that way. That way you are playing the hand correctly when your bigger bets are out and incorrectly at a very meniscal cost when your minimum bet is out, but always playing the same avoiding a huge card counter "tell". The insurance decision also falls into this card counters basic strategy.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Hit. The dealer is at advantage.
    My reference above was sort of baiting Tasha into the wrong answer with the "flow of the cards comment".

    If you are not counting cards and have no further information about the remaining cards (or the next card), then mathematically "hit" is the best option.

    If you are counting, "hit" is the best option up until a TC of about +3 (hi-lo or equivalent) at which standing becomes the best option. It becomes the best option not only mathematically, but also you don't want to take unnecessary hits in +EV situations. So on borderline plays, you might want to not take a hit just to preserve cards. Not hitting 1 or 2 cards may allow for an extra round at your max bet +EV situation and that is worth far more than the few cents that a borderline hit is worth.

    And finally on some of these borderline plays, like 12 vs 2, 12 vs 3, 16 vs 10 it is best play the same hands the same all the time rather than hit sometimes and stand others according to the count. There is a very minimal cost to this but a bigger reward in terms of longevity. There is a strategy known as "card counters basic strategy", in which you determine the correct play at TC's of say +3 or more and always play it that way. That way you are playing the hand correctly when your bigger bets are out and incorrectly at a very meniscal cost when your minimum bet is out, but always playing the same avoiding a huge card counter "tell". The insurance decision also falls into this card counters basic strategy.
    So, I got your little test right by choosing "Hit!"

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post

    So, I got your little test right by choosing "Hit!"
    You had a 50/50 chance. You guessed right. BUT before you get to "giddy", your statement that you would hope for a 9 on your 12 to make a "blackjack" is so wrong it almost overshadows your correct guess. I'll leave it to someone else to tell you what's wrong with that.

  11. #11
    Want to press your luck tasha? What is the optimal play for a player 16 vs dealer 10 or face card (also value 10)?

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post

    So, I got your little test right by choosing "Hit!"
    You had a 50/50 chance. You guessed right. BUT before you get to "giddy", your statement that you would hope for a 9 on your 12 to make a "blackjack" is so wrong it almost overshadows your correct guess. I'll leave it to someone else to tell you what's wrong with that.
    If I have a 12 and choose "Hit," and get a 9 card, I win automatically. 12+9 is 21, so I win!

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Want to press your luck tasha? What is the optimal play for a player 16 vs dealer 10 or face card (also value 10)?
    I would guess that the Player should choose Stand on this one this one and hope the Dealer's next card is a 5 for a win. Because with a card as high as a 16, you are very apt to bust by getting a 10 and ending up with 26.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Want to press your luck tasha? What is the optimal play for a player 16 vs dealer 10 or face card (also value 10)?
    I would guess that the Player should choose Stand on this one this one and hope the Dealer's next card is a 5 for a win. Because with a card as high as a 16, you are very apt to bust by getting a 10 and ending up with 26.
    This was also a bit of a trick question. The most optimal play is to surrender. But many places don't offer surrender and in that case knowing nothing else about remaining cards you should hit. There is such a small cost between hitting and standing in neutral counts that I won't penalize you even though technically wrong.

    I don't think you have any interest in blackjack despite your posting as blackjack newbie on a blackjack forum and asking these questions on at least 3 forums, but even as a newbie if you have any real interest, you should at least learn some of these things (basic strategy).

  15. #15
    My next question to Tasha was going to ask the most optimal play for player 16 vs 10 at a true count of -3?

    I'll open it up to anyone. (For fun)

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    My next question to Tasha was going to ask the most optimal play for player 16 vs 10 at a true count of -3?

    I'll open it up to anyone. (For fun)
    Obviously, the dealer has a.greater chance of 20.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Want to press your luck tasha? What is the optimal play for a player 16 vs dealer 10 or face card (also value 10)?
    I would guess that the Player should choose Stand on this one this one and hope the Dealer's next card is a 5 for a win. Because with a card as high as a 16, you are very apt to bust by getting a 10 and ending up with 26.
    This was also a bit of a trick question. The most optimal play is to surrender. But many places don't offer surrender and in that case knowing nothing else about remaining cards you should hit. There is such a small cost between hitting and standing in neutral counts that I won't penalize you even though technically wrong.

    I don't think you have any interest in blackjack despite your posting as blackjack newbie on a blackjack forum and asking these questions on at least 3 forums, but even as a newbie if you have any real interest, you should at least learn some of these things (basic strategy).
    You're assuming I even knew what Surrender was in Blackjack!

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Obviously, the dealer has a.greater chance of 20.
    While this is true, the dealer will make a good hand out of a potential bust hand more frequently, it isn't the answer I was looking for, Slingshot. I though one of the blackjack guys would chime in and say, at a true count of -3, you are playing at a greater disadvantage, about 2% disadvantage, and the best option is to not be playing at such a negative count. That is the way I play anyway.

    That is the difference between blackjack card counting and something like VP. With blackjack the advantage is swinging back and forth between the house and player and you can pick and choose when you want to play and when you don't.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    My next question to Tasha was going to ask the most optimal play for player 16 vs 10 at a true count of -3?

    I'll open it up to anyone. (For fun)
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Obviously, the dealer has a.greater chance of 20.
    While this is true, the dealer will make a good hand out of a potential bust hand more frequently, it isn't the answer I was looking for, Slingshot. I though one of the blackjack guys would chime in and say, at a true count of -3, you are playing at a greater disadvantage, about 2% disadvantage, and the best option is to not be playing at such a negative count. That is the way I play anyway.
    The correct answer is to hit at a TC of -3. If the question was worded differently I would agree with what you wrote for the answer but it was not. You presented the trick question with the player already facing that situation.
    Last edited by BoSox; 12-07-2019 at 09:01 AM.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Disclaimer. I know that I am supposed to cut down on the New Threads thing, but I feel that this is a decent idea for a thread and is not completely stupid like some of my threads are. I actually completely thought this thread through before hitting "Post."

    The "Back off from this game/ the Banned Tap." How do you handle it? I remember a guy saying he felt happy at first when he felt the "tap," as he was winning and as he had been expecting it to be a Friend he had been with getting ready to congratulate him on his winning game but it was instead a "Suit," telling him that he had been put on a watch list for card counting and winning too much and needed to back off the game. His happiness turned to frustration in just seconds as he had to leave the winning game. How do you handle the "Infamous tap?"
    Only question is if you gave the crackhead you paid to suck off an extra $20 to tap you on the shoulder so you could fully enjoy it.

    Hopefully you stole enough this week to blow his friend as well.

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