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Thread: Alan learning card counting?

  1. #1
    So for the second day in a row Alan has started a thread at WoV about me and discussions here, poorly disguised as ….I don’t know what. I asked for permission to address Alan at WoV, but apparently was denied as I heard nothing back, so I will do so here.

    Yesterday it was an “article” he read about a card counter, losing $6000 while playing a positive expectation game. That was one day after I lost $6000 on Monday while accumulating $170 in EV. Alan oddly asked the question "what are the odds of a player playing $50 a hand losing $6000, or 120 hands?". The answer he got and wanted was 1 in 4000. Alan completely ignored the fact that my max bet Monday was $400, meaning I lost about 15 top wagers. The odds of that….a lot less than 1 in 4000.

    Now today, Alan poses the question “IF I wanted to learn card counting how accurate should my count be?” First Alan has no interest in learning card counting. That two letter word “IF” tells you that.

    What this really is, was Alan playing his manipulation games. This stems from the discussion yesterday or repeat of a discussion about me tracking a second table while playing my primary table when the opportunity is there. When you track a second table you may miss a couple cards here and there. You would prefer to see all cards when card counting but missing a couple has no effect. When tracking a second table all you need to know is that second table, the count is better than your primary table, thus a better opportunity. Even an approximate count can tell you that.

    Alan probably doesn’t realize that EVERY count in card counting is an approximate count. There are cards you won’t see no matter what, in a 6 deck game generally about 78 of them, (deck and a half), in a 8 deck game, as many as 100 or 2 decks. So any cards missed as they come out just gets added to that other group of unseen cards, effectively lowering penetration. Stanford Wong did extensive work on this. It is the basis behind wonging in.

    So anyway, Alan was hoping for some responses that if you miss cards, the count is so inaccurate, it is null and void. And he did get a couple comments in that direction which is what he wanted. But the two fairly knowledgeable card counters that responded, billryan and Sabre, both told him the count still accurately indicates when you are at an advantage, just reduced penetration just like I said. No doubt Alan will dismiss them.

    Alan posting mirroring discussions at WoV, of what I said here, hoping for members to dispute what I say, is really trolling, when I can’t reply there at the moment. But I am not going to go off on Alan as per my new trolling policy. Alan is Alan. That is punishment enough. But really the word I keep using is manipulative. Alan is very sneaky and manipulative with his trolling.

  2. #2
    I thought Alan made a post requesting not to be discussed here anymore?

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    I thought Alan made a post requesting not to be discussed here anymore?
    Well, I guess you are right. But ya know what, he is discussing Me and what is said here on another forum, so I think that is out the window.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    Alan posting mirroring discussions at WoV, of what I said here, hoping for members to dispute what I say, is really trolling, when I can’t reply there at the moment.

    All due respect Kewlj you're can't reply at the moment amounts to about 355 days a year.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    Alan posting mirroring discussions at WoV, of what I said here, hoping for members to dispute what I say, is really trolling, when I can’t reply there at the moment.

    All due respect Kewlj you're can't reply at the moment amounts to about 355 days a year.
    What due respect? You ahve made it quite clear you don't respect me.

    But your point is valid that in the year since my reinstatement at WoV, I'll bet I have been suspended 4 months total including 2 different 30 day suspension.

    And while I don't have the option to engage in conversation with Alan over there while I am suspended, he always has the option to ask me whatever he wants here. (could even do it through his attorney )

    Now I don't really care if he wants to discuss me. But my gripe is the same as with these other guys. If you are going to get the facts wrong, either intentionally or not, I should to be able to respond. And I think Alan is intentionally manipulating facts, but I'll ask you...what do you think?

  6. #6
    And I'll tell ya something else. During the original track 2 tables discussion here, Alan wanted to record me tracking a second table while playing one. I am sure you understand why I declined. I can't have Alan post a video of me, like he did Rob and others.

    But, despite all my issues with Alan, if he really wanted to learn about card counting, I think I would set aside a little time to teach him some things if he was sincere. I mean I don't think Alan has it in him to play at a high level, nor do I think he has the bankroll to support any size decent play, but I would teach him a few basics that could allow him to play a +EV game. And with his gambling history, he would be golden....no casino would back him off or bar him.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    Now I don't really care if he wants to discuss me. But my gripe is the same as with these other guys. If you are going to get the facts wrong, either intentionally or not, I should to be able to respond. And I think Alan is intentionally manipulating facts, but I'll ask you...what do you think?

    I have no idea about any private history between you and Alan but you seem to act like you are the fastest gunslinger out west thinking everyone is out to get you.

  8. #8
    SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SICK FUCKING COCK SUCKING IDIOT !!!!!!!!!!!!

    No one wants to read about you and your mental disorders anymore. You’re like a computer virus that keeps coming back.

    I’m pretty sure if Dan would read this shit, you’d be the first official nuke ban on this site.

    SHUT THE FUCK UP

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SICK FUCKING COCK SUCKING IDIOT !!!!!!!!!!!!

    No one wants to read about you and your mental disorders anymore. You’re like a computer virus that keeps coming back.

    I’m pretty sure if Dan would read this shit, you’d be the first official nuke ban on this site.

    SHUT THE FUCK UP
    Fuck you and your whore wife, troll. What a nasty, angry fuck you are. Go suck some more big black cock that you told us about yesterday.

    For your information, Dan is reading what I post. And if he hasn't banned you, who he has idenified as nothing but a troll, he isn't banning anyone.

  10. #10
    Alan used to play mid level 5-10$ with occasional 25$ high level 8/5 BP a few years back at his favorite casino Rincon. The last few years since he moved to Vegas, haven't been so kind for the once big shot journalist. Most likely reduced to playing 10$ craps and 25c vp, that would explain his extreme bitterness.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Alan used to play mid level 5-10$ with occasional 25$ high level 8/5 BP a few years back at his favorite casino Rincon. The last few years since he moved to Vegas, haven't been so kind for the once big shot journalist. Most likely reduced to playing 10$ craps and 25c vp, that would explain his extreme bitterness.
    What probably makes him even more bitter is that shit hole Rincon is the place he dumped his retirement money.....lol

    Can you imagine giving your money to the Mayor??

    What a joke. That place has to be the nut low to ball out in.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SICK FUCKING COCK SUCKING IDIOT !!!!!!!!!!!!

    No one wants to read about you and your mental disorders anymore. You’re like a computer virus that keeps coming back.

    I’m pretty sure if Dan would read this shit, you’d be the first official nuke ban on this site.

    SHUT THE FUCK UP
    Did the nurse's aide forget to bring you extra gravy for your mashed potatoes? Sheesh!

  13. #13
    Alan mentioned going to dealer school. He's to thin skinned to be a dealer.

  14. #14
    This is a funny thread. Kew you get SO bothered whenever anybody talks about you!

    However, I do have a blackjack question for you that indeed might help Alan since he helplessly still reads every word written on this forum: If you're playing at a table that means you have to be playing at an advantage, right? So now you see an opportunity to count a 2nd table, so you do it. Why? I saw you stated that counting a 2nd table is not accurate because you see a reduced number of cards--it simply allows you to determine whether or not that table is at an advantage, correct? Then if you're already playing at an advantage at table #1 (and even if there's a bad count going at the moment) what's the point of jumping up and diving right into a SECOND table, when you are doing so in full sight of everybody? Is that not a move that's easily seen and puts you squarely within casino radar? And if the count at table #2 starts to go bad, do you keep doing this move and nobody ever notices?

  15. #15
    I say this in jest as I like Alan---

    Maybe he should first start with wife counting and then move up to cards.

  16. #16
    Nah, the wife game is always -EV and is played from a CSM anyway.

  17. #17
    If Alan were to deal anything, he'd be better off as a poker dealer. He's played poker before and is somewhat familiar with it.

  18. #18
    I dealt craps for several years. We didn't rotate so I was always the stick. You do have to learn to not be thin skinned although the "house" wanted me to run a pretty strict and fast game.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    This is a funny thread. Kew you get SO bothered whenever anybody talks about you!

    However, I do have a blackjack question for you that indeed might help Alan since he helplessly still reads every word written on this forum: If you're playing at a table that means you have to be playing at an advantage, right? So now you see an opportunity to count a 2nd table, so you do it. Why? I saw you stated that counting a 2nd table is not accurate because you see a reduced number of cards--it simply allows you to determine whether or not that table is at an advantage, correct? Then if you're already playing at an advantage at table #1 (and even if there's a bad count going at the moment) what's the point of jumping up and diving right into a SECOND table, when you are doing so in full sight of everybody? Is that not a move that's easily seen and puts you squarely within casino radar? And if the count at table #2 starts to go bad, do you keep doing this move and nobody ever notices?

    Rob, Kewlj is not jumping up and diving into a second table, he swings from ropes into seats like the legendary Tarzan did in the jungle.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    However, I do have a blackjack question for you that indeed might help Alan since he helplessly still reads every word written on this forum: If you're playing at a table that means you have to be playing at an advantage, right? So now you see an opportunity to count a 2nd table, so you do it. Why? I saw you stated that counting a 2nd table is not accurate because you see a reduced number of cards--it simply allows you to determine whether or not that table is at an advantage, correct? Then if you're already playing at an advantage at table #1 (and even if there's a bad count going at the moment) what's the point of jumping up and diving right into a SECOND table, when you are doing so in full sight of everybody? Is that not a move that's easily seen and puts you squarely within casino radar? And if the count at table #2 starts to go bad, do you keep doing this move and nobody ever notices?
    Rob, I doubt you have serious interest in the answer to the questions. You are probably looking for some inconsistancy to attempt to troll. But I will answer in good faith.

    I don't wong into a game (except when jumping to a second table), so when I sit down at my first table, it is off the top of a fresh shuffle and I am not at an advantage. At a neutral or zero count (fresh shuffle) I am playing at a disadvantage of about half percent, depending on exact rules. That is precisely why a player starts out with his minimum wager or the wager at the low end of his spread, because he is at a disadvantage. You aren't at an advantage until the count reached a TC of above +1.

    You have to understand that card counting is not much of an effort for me or any experienced counter, especially anyone playing a simple level one count. That is why players play a level one count. It is almost done unconsiously at this point. So don't think of it as extra effort, even tracking the second table.

    Now you do make a case that once the count at my primary table goes fairly significantly positive, not just TC +1, but rather TC +2 or +3 and I have started to raise my bet substantially, not yet to max bet, but maybe half way there, There could be justification to drop any second count and just focus on the primary game and advantageous count there. And sometimes I do just that if I am feeling any kind of heat at all. It comes down to reading the situation, pit, and if I feel like I am starting to draw attention, I will just finish the shoe at my primary table which is advantageous at this point and exit.

    But my experience has been that raising bets alone, is not really the "tell". It is not the thing that draw heat and attention. It is the lowering of bets back to the small bet at the shuffle which I avoid. So if I feel no heat and sense no discomfort as I raise my bets at the primary table, I will continue to track that second table if possible. That way if the count at the second table goes positive, once my shoe reaches the shuffle point and ends, I can still jump to that second table and get more rounds in at an advantage. And all done without lowering my bet which is the big tell. I go right into the second game with my bigger bet. It is like getting extra rounds in at a good advantage. That is really the whole concept of tracking a second table. You are increasing the number of rounds played at max bet or significant advanatge.

    Now, come the shuffle point at that second table it is time to exit, regardless of any sense of heat. I have shown enough of my play that it is best to get going.

    One other thing I want to mention and that is the jumping table and that drawing attention. That may annoy dealers and pit a little bit, especially if the pit guy is rating the player, because he has to close him out at one table and open him at a second. But regardles, there are players that do this all the time. It is not unusual. for regular players (ploppies) to jump tables all the time looking for that "hot" dealer. Jumping tables is not really a common trait of a card counter, so that act alone brings no extra attention. And a player can always say things to smooth that out anyway. After losing a hand or two, I say to the dealer "you are too hot, I am moving to the next table". Even if you have generally been winning, saying that after a loss or two works. If you have been winning, you can say "oh there is that deaaler I won with yesterday". You don't need to make an excuse, but it doesn't hurt.

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