Stop implying that AndrewG is Alan Mendelson!

[AxelWolf]

The gambling world is a small world. Everybody seems to know everybody or know of everybody. .

That cuts both ways. Playing devil's advocate here, surely someone would have noticed something amiss, especially since Rob wasn't a low profile person to begin with.

And to add to that, one of the key elements to the double up bug glitch regarding the bill validator lighting while double up was initiated.... was not top secret, I found out about that aspect independent of Rob and well before he ever posted about any of this.

There's some things that make me believe he did in fact play the double up bug, but there are other things that leave me puzzled.

I do remember that being the key question you asked of me in our telecon. I don't know and always wondered where you heard about that. Can you explain?

But that wasn't the only key. Did anyone ever tell you or did you know somehow that the bug could be played without needing a handpay jackpot? I don't believe anybody anywhere ever knew that. Maybe Kane and Nestor, but I never saw it mentioned anywhere. And, were you aware of the fact that while the "bug" activated with the double up mode turned on, in the newer machines (around 2007-up) where the question did not show up on the screen in Yes/No format and simply had the double up yellow tag at the bottom of the screen, you had to first activate the double up before you could work the bug. It merely being there with the option turned on was meaningless.

Also, what's your take on why I posted my retirement from professional play about when Kane got caught? Devil's advocate would say coiincidence, right?

And if I may in another area, I've always wondered this (asking for your opinion): the day Kane made a fool of himself and got nailed at the Silverton--how could it possibly be that the guy upstairs who noticed he was using the same hand a second time to get paid, AND THE INVESTIGATORS INCLUDING THAT 25-YR OLD COMPUTER FORENSICS GENIUS, could not figure out right then and there what steps Kane was using to make the machine pay out a duplicate jackpot? It is all on very clear video. But they couldn't easily trace his steps? Kew the expert claims upstairs watches winners like a hawk.

To me there is and always has been something funny in Denmark. This 25-year old had to go to a lab to figure it all out when it was on digital video all along upstairs? BS! These idiots busted up the play for me and my life instantly changed. The incompetence here is mind boggling. There's got to be more to the story. And the article Wired wrote from their investigation totally misconstrued the process of the play. As far as I know, only I know these things.

I really don't want to stay where I got the information from publicly, however, others know this person as well, so no, I'm not just making up something and saying I don't want to reveal my source.

I did not know you didn't have to create hand-pay jackpots for this to work, when I found that information out I was amazed that anybody ever actually took hand-pay jackpots. I would avoid taking hand-pay jackpots while doing the double up bug at all cost. I wouldn't want to take the chance the casino might find out by looking in the camera. However, when I brought this up to my source they also confirm that was the case as well, they claim they actually told me that information, but I guess I must have missed it, it's obviously not the only thing I was discussing. These machines with the glitch were found recently in a Nevada Casino and some were found a few years ago as well.

Back in the day when you were playing these how many different casinos, bars, 7-Elevens, supermarkets and whatever else you can think of do you believe had the glitch enabled? Aside from that assuming somebody wanted to take the initiative, how many more locations or machines do you think one could have the double up enabled to where the glitch would work? I know I used to ask the floor people to change my settings all the time, usually the speed, including adding double up. Some would, some couldn't because of their policy, it really just depending on the situation.

As far as the Nester and Kane, I don't know if I can even comment or speculate about those fools. The only reason the glitch was found by him in the first place was because he was an addicted obsessive gambler that all kinds of crazy wacky theories, that's why he was switching in and out of games and moving up and down in denominations while feverishly adding bills to the bill validator. This might make sense why you figured it out

It was pure luck and his gambling addiction that caused a situation that allowed him to figure it out. It was such a waste that those two guys got involved and f***** it all up.

[Dan Druff]

I don't think Alan will ever admit to being AndrewG because it's clear Alan wanted to leave behind all the forum baggage he had under his own name....

This includes:

- Defense of Rob's "system"

- Denial of the profitability of APs

- 18 yos

- Personal issues brought out here


Simply put, he wanted to post here without being trolled by that stuff, so he probably made a new identity. For those same reasons, he's unlikely to admit to that identity, unless he's ready to stop posting here.

I always struggled with what to do about the trolling of Alan. I didn't like seeing it occur, especially since he was the original founder of this forum. At the same time, he wasn't innocent. He intentionally posted provocative messages here, including ones he knew would draw people's ire (such as the questioning of APs on a forum full of APs).

So I told him that I could only put a stop to the trolling if he were to stop posting intentionally controversial stuff, but it never sunk in. He kept doing it, and eventually he quit. That was fine. I didn't ask him to leave, and he did bring good content here sometimes, but I respected his decision to leave, and even said I would keep the negativity about him to a minimum in his absence.

If he is Andrew, it would be nice if he just owned up to it, kept the AP antagonism away from here, and joined back in. I will say that Andrew hasn't antagonized people, so if that's the style he goes to, that will be great.

[AxelWolf]

I actually believe there was some lady at a supermarket who knew about this glitch.
This was before I understood how the glitch worked or much about it. And you there was a glitch I knew what had happened but I didn't know the formula.

I was playing at a supermarket because there's a pretty good advantage on the machines there at the time. The meter rate on a multi-way progressive was over 10%. For those who don't understand about meter movement, just know that that's an insane amount, especially, when the game is only a 2 - 5% loser off the top normally(I can't remember the exact pay table any longer).

What I remember is this lady was doing some strange stuff such as moving in and out of the game moving up and down denominations and frequently putting in money. She was mostly firing away on the quarter denominations. Her behavior was so strange I got curious, she didn't seem like she was casually doing this, it was as if she had a focus and deliberate manner. I started watching her. I think she noticed that I was watching her and she left soon after. I brought up a casual conversation with a slot attendant and casually asked her about the person. The Slot attendant lady told me she frequently hit handpays on much higher denomination machines and she always got lucky when she decided to play the big limits. I Actually started thinking that she may be didn't know exactly how it worked but she knew something worked and occasionally would trigger it.

[AxelWolf]

I don't think Alan will ever admit to being AndrewG because it's clear Alan wanted to leave behind all the forum baggage he had under his own name....

This includes:

- Defense of Rob's "system"

- Denial of the profitability of APs

- 18 yos

- Personal issues brought out here


Simply put, he wanted to post here without being trolled by that stuff, so he probably made a new identity. For those same reasons, he's unlikely to admit to that identity, unless he's ready to stop posting here.

I always struggled with what to do about the trolling of Alan. I didn't like seeing it occur, especially since he was the original founder of this forum. At the same time, he wasn't innocent. He intentionally posted provocative messages here, including ones he knew would draw people's ire (such as the questioning of APs on a forum full of APs).

So I told him that I could only put a stop to the trolling if he were to stop posting intentionally controversial stuff, but it never sunk in. He kept doing it, and eventually he quit. That was fine. I didn't ask him to leave, and he did bring good content here sometimes, but I respected his decision to leave, and even said I would keep the negativity about him to a minimum in his absence.

If he is Andrew, it would be nice if he just owned up to it, kept the AP antagonism away from here, and joined back in. I will say that Andrew hasn't antagonized people, so if that's the style he goes to, that will be great.

I think you need to contact Alan and find out exactly why he's not posting here anymore. It has to do with you, and not so much the other stuff, according to him.

[Rob.Singer]

Axel, I only ever played the DU bug in the regular casinos because they have the higher denominations (at least to me--I wasn't familiar with the small places), and I only did it on bumped-up W2G winners. I didn't even play at PT's etc.--just casinos. I also felt I would be easier to spot at the smaller places so I stayed awa from them. Remember, I used a one-and-done policy and moved onto the next place. There are more than enuf casinos around the state. I will forever disagree with you on doing it only on smaller winners. There'd have been no strategy for that. I won say $8000 w/o using a card, then I put it in and purposely lost about 5% of my net win every time and on the highest denomination. My theory was, do it too many times on smaller wins and someone smart might accidentally on purpose catch on. Like you and that lady in the grocery store. All casinos saw me as a loser.

Of course there's non-updated machines out there. You just have to be lucky enuf to find them. The first hurdle is if they have a no double up policy. (Peppermill casinos, Barona, etc.) Then you have to be at the right era machine. It all starts with luck nowadays.

[AndrewG]

I contacted Mr Alan through his website. His email address is displayed. He's one angry, pissed off guy, but he only mentioned how Mr Singer deceived him and made a fool out of him for endorsing him. Yeah, he's pissed.

[Bob21]

The last time I heard a phrase like that used it was when a time traveler was interviewed on the radio. He talked about the earth a thousand years in the future. And you couldn't argue with him because only he traveled in the future.

What would really be interesting is hearing from two different time travelers, so they could debate what they saw in the future.

I'm an outsider, so I have no idea who AndrewG is, and I don't care. All I can say is this is one of the best posts I've seen in a while. I laughed when I read it.

And I will be using the lines I've copied above in future conversations I have with people. This was well put! It was funny, but made a good point too! There are many situations where this valid point can be made. Thanks AndrewG!

[AndrewG]

Mr Singer that's very valuable information. Thank you for sharing it: when you get a W2G without a players card the casino doesn't make the connection that you're the same person when you lose with a players card.

Gee, I had no idea that's how it worked.

[Ozzy]

I contacted Mr Alan through his website. His email address is displayed. He's one angry, pissed off guy, but he only mentioned how Mr Singer deceived him and made a fool out of him for endorsing him. Yeah, he's pissed.

I never got the impression you were angry and pissed off, you seem level headed to me.

[kewlJ]

I contacted Mr Alan through his website. His email address is displayed. He's one angry, pissed off guy, but he only mentioned how Mr Singer deceived him and made a fool out of him for endorsing him. Yeah, he's pissed.

Alan, now you are just coming off as completely bonkers. Tasha-type bonkers.

My advice. Take the high road. That starts with admitting what everyone already now knows, that AndrewG and Alan are one and the same. Then if you have a particular gripe with someone, as Axel has suggested with Dan D, air it. If you now regret your support of Singer and feel you were deceived....state that. If you are no longer interested in rehashing something like the 18 y.o. in a row, state that and then just ignore anyone who mentions it.

I agree with Dan, Andrew has been a productive poster for the most part, let's go with that.

[AndrewG]

Thank you Mr Dan and Mr Kewlj and Mr Bob21. I'm glad that I've made a contribution here. I don't have the casino knowledge you have.

Mr Dan I found your forum by accident. I was doing a Google search regarding a traffic accident on the Strip and your post about ways to enter Caesars Palace came up in the search results. It was very interesting. It didn't help with the research for the accident case but it was interesting.

As I mentioned before your forum is easier to navigate than Las Vegas Advisor.

[kewlJ]

All casinos saw me as a loser.

I fought hard with myself trying to just let this go. I lost that fight. Just couldn't do it. But I will be kind and just use my eyeroll emoji.

I won say $8000 w/o using a card, then I put it in and purposely lost about 5% of my net win every time and on the highest denomination. My theory was, do it too many times on smaller wins and someone smart might accidentally on purpose catch on.

Losing back some percentage isn't going to buy you anything. Maybe it is because us blackjack AP have been dealing with this surveillance crap forever and you machine players only fairly recently, but let me tell you how it works. Surveillance can back up and see every move you have made from the second you enter the property if they decide they are interested. I have had casino personnel approach me in the dining area, hours after my blackjack play to tell me I can't play anymore. You think they only see what you play on the card. Stupidest thing ever.

[Rob.Singer]

All casinos saw me as a loser.

I fought hard with myself trying to just let this go. I lost that fight. Just couldn't do it. But I will be kind and just use my eyeroll emoji.

I won say $8000 w/o using a card, then I put it in and purposely lost about 5% of my net win every time and on the highest denomination. My theory was, do it too many times on smaller wins and someone smart might accidentally on purpose catch on.

Losing back some percentage isn't going to buy you anything. Maybe it is because us blackjack AP have been dealing with this surveillance crap forever and you machine players only fairly recently, but let me tell you how it works. Surveillance can back up and see every move you have made from the second you enter the property if they decide they are interested. I have had casino personnel approach me in the dining area, hours after my blackjack play to tell me I can't play anymore. You think they only see what you play on the card. Stupidest thing ever.

You and Alan must suffer from the same dense disease Now I have to educate you again. Alan will read it because, well, he's just like you when it comes to forum cravings.

Typical scenario: Player goes in, sits down, doesn't insert his card, plays, hits a bumped up W2G winner, gets paid, puts card in, loses 5% of the session win on the highest denomination. Why? No, it's not because of what they see and don't see. Dumbest thing ever written. It's in case they ever look at my play at any time later. Better they see some play at the level I hit the big winner on than nothing at all. It's an added level of security within an overall highly safe procedure that inexperienced people would never think of.

To your next amateur point: explain why upstairs would bother looking carefully at a player who's hit no big winner until he does. And Wynn, Freemont, and Silverton all proved that they don't "rewind tapes" even when a player is winning hundreds of thousands on a single machine via a dozen taxable hits....or evenwhen they caught Kane at Silverton.

You need another 14 hour nap.

[kewlJ]

You and Alan must suffer from the same dense disease Now I have to educate you again. Alan will read it because, well, he's just like you when it comes to forum cravings.

Typical scenario: Player goes in, sits down, doesn't insert his card, plays, hits a bumped up W2G winner, gets paid, puts card in, loses 5% of the session win on the highest denomination. Why? No, it's not because of what they see and don't see. Dumbest thing ever written. It's in case they ever look at my play at any time later. Better they see some play at the level I hit the big winner on than nothing at all. It's an added level of security within an overall highly safe procedure that inexperienced people would never think of.

To your next amateur point: explain why upstairs would bother looking carefully at a player who's hit no big winner until he does. And Wynn, Freemont, and Silverton all proved that they don't "rewind tapes" even when a player is winning hundreds of thousands on a single machine via a dozen taxable hits....or evenwhen they caught Kane at Silverton.

You need another 14 hour nap.

Why would surveillance spend 20 seconds to make sure someone that hit something big, did so legitimately? Simple answer: Because it is their job to do so.

Look, I sometimes forget that you are like 100 years old and played last century. I don't know exactly how things were back then with surveillance guys on the catwalks with binoculars. I suppose you might be able to pull something over on those guys. But in recent times in the real world, trying to "trick" surveillance is not a winning, nor longterm strategy.

Longevity is my top priority and I have done pretty well. I have done well by not trying to "trick" surveillance (1990's / 2000's ideology) but rather by playing within limits that are better tolerated and no one has to answer for. Now, it is true, I am talking blackjack, but it is not all that different. What your suggesting would get surveillance people fired.

[Rob.Singer]

Mr Singer that's very valuable information. Thank you for sharing it: when you get a W2G without a players card the casino doesn't make the connection that you're the same person when you lose with a players card.

Gee, I had no idea that's how it worked.

Alan read and learn from what I just schooled kew on.

And BTW, it's getting to the point of you needing to be in the looney bin. You're choosing to keep playing games. Things didn't work out so well for you in the past when you act foolish. You were unable to figure out the dice problem, the story you made up about seeing 18 yo's REALLY worked against you, that wedding at a Caesars craps table made you a laughing stock, and now this. It's all gonna come crumbling down soon enuf.

Oh....it might help your charade if you didn't keep commenting only where I'm posting.

Get the picture yet?

[kewlJ]

You and Alan must suffer from the same dense disease Now I have to educate you again. Alan will read it because, well, he's just like you when it comes to forum cravings.

News flash Rob: Unless Alan comes clean, and once again starts posting under his Alan Mendelson handle, you are the leading poster (in volume, not quality) on this forum by a rather large margin. It is pretty ridiculous to have the leading poster by a huge margin, suggesting other people crave forum posting. Ridiculous, but not surprising.

[Rob.Singer]

You and Alan must suffer from the same dense disease Now I have to educate you again. Alan will read it because, well, he's just like you when it comes to forum cravings.

Typical scenario: Player goes in, sits down, doesn't insert his card, plays, hits a bumped up W2G winner, gets paid, puts card in, loses 5% of the session win on the highest denomination. Why? No, it's not because of what they see and don't see. Dumbest thing ever written. It's in case they ever look at my play at any time later. Better they see some play at the level I hit the big winner on than nothing at all. It's an added level of security within an overall highly safe procedure that inexperienced people would never think of.

To your next amateur point: explain why upstairs would bother looking carefully at a player who's hit no big winner until he does. And Wynn, Freemont, and Silverton all proved that they don't "rewind tapes" even when a player is winning hundreds of thousands on a single machine via a dozen taxable hits....or evenwhen they caught Kane at Silverton.

You need another 14 hour nap.

Why would surveillance spend 20 seconds to make sure someone that hit something big, did so legitimately? Simple answer: Because it is their job to do so.

Look, I sometimes forget that you are like 100 years old and played last century. I don't know exactly how things were back then with surveillance guys on the catwalks with binoculars. I suppose you might be able to pull something over on those guys. But in recent times in the real world, trying to "trick" surveillance is not a winning, nor longterm strategy.

Longevity is my top priority and I have done pretty well. I have done well by not trying to "trick" surveillance (1990's / 2000's ideology) but rather by playing within limits that are better tolerated and no one has to answer for. Now, it is true, I am talking blackjack, but it is not all that different. What your suggesting would get surveillance people fired.

You again ducked the issue. If you keep claiming upstairs looks at W2G winning hits, explain how and why Wynn--well known for their thoroughness--didn't bother when Kane and Nestor were winning hundreds of thousands the same day. Then explain Freemont, where they won daily for over a week. And explain what went on at the Silverton. If kew the expert claims surveillance watches and rewinds machine players who hit one jackpot, give us your insight at what went on upstairs at these casinos.

You may call a friend.

[Rob.Singer]

You and Alan must suffer from the same dense disease Now I have to educate you again. Alan will read it because, well, he's just like you when it comes to forum cravings.

News flash Rob: Unless Alan comes clean, and once again starts posting under his Alan Mendelson handle, you are the leading poster (in volume, not quality) on this forum by a rather large margin. It is pretty ridiculous to have the leading poster by a huge margin, suggesting other people crave forum posting. Ridiculous, but not surprising.

And exactly how many years have I been a poster here?

Should've looked it up before trying to impress. Or is your weakened immune system acting up again?

[Bob21]

You and Alan must suffer from the same dense disease Now I have to educate you again. Alan will read it because, well, he's just like you when it comes to forum cravings.

To be fair, we have a unique situation going on right now, so there are a lot more people on forums. I mean what else is there to do, but spend time on forums? I mean I already know more about the NFL draft than I've ever known before in my lifetime. While I like the NFL, I don't care that much about it. We can't go to any sporting events, we can't go to any movies, we can't go to casinos, we can't visit people, etc. I mean there is only so much tv someone can watch.

And to the credit of this forum, it does has some pretty sharp people, so it's entertaining and I've learned some things on it.

And I could really care less who a poster is, as long as the quality is good. I even enjoy LMR and MWP posts. I mean LMR, for the most part, posts good songs, and I always want to keep up on who's on his bus...and as far as MWP, I enjoy his bombs. What can I say, it keeps us on our toes.

I like your posts too. My point is until things open up I think a lot of people are spending more time on forums than they typically would. And this is a good forum, so you can't blame them. It allows a diversity of views, and there is good content.

I like that Dan has separated coronavirus general topics from Vegas topics. This was a good move! I'm wondering if he should create another sub-forum for all MidWest Player's bombs. But as long as MWP doesn't overdue it, we should be able to handle all his bombs in the coronavirus sub-forum.

Point being there is a lot of people spending time on forums today. Hopefully, things will open up so we can get back to a more normal life.

[kewlJ]

You and Alan must suffer from the same dense disease Now I have to educate you again. Alan will read it because, well, he's just like you when it comes to forum cravings.

Typical scenario: Player goes in, sits down, doesn't insert his card, plays, hits a bumped up W2G winner, gets paid, puts card in, loses 5% of the session win on the highest denomination. Why? No, it's not because of what they see and don't see. Dumbest thing ever written. It's in case they ever look at my play at any time later. Better they see some play at the level I hit the big winner on than nothing at all. It's an added level of security within an overall highly safe procedure that inexperienced people would never think of.

To your next amateur point: explain why upstairs would bother looking carefully at a player who's hit no big winner until he does. And Wynn, Freemont, and Silverton all proved that they don't "rewind tapes" even when a player is winning hundreds of thousands on a single machine via a dozen taxable hits....or evenwhen they caught Kane at Silverton.

You need another 14 hour nap.

Why would surveillance spend 20 seconds to make sure someone that hit something big, did so legitimately? Simple answer: Because it is their job to do so.

Look, I sometimes forget that you are like 100 years old and played last century. I don't know exactly how things were back then with surveillance guys on the catwalks with binoculars. I suppose you might be able to pull something over on those guys. But in recent times in the real world, trying to "trick" surveillance is not a winning, nor longterm strategy.

Longevity is my top priority and I have done pretty well. I have done well by not trying to "trick" surveillance (1990's / 2000's ideology) but rather by playing within limits that are better tolerated and no one has to answer for. Now, it is true, I am talking blackjack, but it is not all that different. What your suggesting would get surveillance people fired.

You again ducked the issue. If you keep claiming upstairs looks at W2G winning hits, explain how and why Wynn--well known for their thoroughness--didn't bother when Kane and Nestor were winning hundreds of thousands the same day. Then explain Freemont, where they won daily for over a week. And explain what went on at the Silverton. If kew the expert claims surveillance watches and rewinds machine players who hit one jackpot, give us your insight at what went on upstairs at these casinos.

You may call a friend.

My answer: I don't know. I am not afraid to say that I don't have all the answers.

Rob, I don't have to prove that your claim is not true. And you don't have to prove that it is. That is what I have always said on this forum and that doesn't change because it is you. BUT, this is such an earth shattering claim and by a guy notorious for lying about everything and anything, that if you seriously expect people to believe you should be willing to offer some sort of proof. When you first came out with this claim and Axel was on the fence (or that is how I interpreted his position), I remember him clearly saying, that you ought to be able to offer some kind supporting evidence. He wasn't exactly sure what or how, but thought that there should be something to support your claim. That is not unreasonable, and yet you have never been able to do so.

Rob, you seem to be in your glory that Axelwolf somehow turned this discussion back to your double up bug claim. Gives you the relevance and attention you so desperately seek and need. But let me remind you of something. Even on THIS forum, with all the weird alliances and enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend goofiness going on....almost no one believes this claim. 4 percent! 9 percent if you want to count the leaning towards.

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...le-up-bug-poll