Stop implying that AndrewG is Alan Mendelson!

[Rob.Singer]

What triggered pages and pages of writing started with a message that Mr Alan sent to Mr AxelWolf. Since this message was posted the discussion has undergone many twists and turns. You don't believe me and I don't believe you. I see now that this has been going on for a long time.

Alan Mendelson
"For many months now I have not communicated with Rob Singer because he deceived me. For years he presented himself as a unique video poker player with a system that anyone could follow at any budget level and using that system they would have substantial profits.

But about a year ago, during a breakfast meeting at Red Rock Casino Rob confessed to me that his big winnings didn't come from a system others could also use but from a defect or bug on certain video poker machines that the general public would not be able to access. He confessed that his system and the reports of big wins from his system were just a cover for his manipulation of video poker machines which may have been illegal.

I was duped and misled into reporting on wins that never happened; I was duped and misled to presenting a system using videos that in fact did not produce the results that were claimed.

Rob Singer has also misrepresented to you what went on preceding an extensive video shoot at Caesars Palace. This was our second video shoot and Rob wanted to observe and offer guidance on Bonus Poker. He told you on this forum that he watched me go through $500 after $500 playing double double bonus poker. He told you I was stressed with losing and losing. But in reality I played only a short time with a small start of only $300 and he sat beside me discussing the various hands and offering advice. Quite frankly I'm surprised Rob chose this event to post about on the forum because I also wrote about that session on this forum. It was a short session because then Rob and my son who was the cameraman went up to our room with me for the shoot.

If Rob Singer watched some player feverishly losing thousands of dollars it wasn't me.

Because I now know that Rob Singer misrepresented strategy a being the engine behind his success I have deleted his pages from the index of my website.

When he told me at that breakfast meeting that his winnings really came from manipulating machines I asked him for proof and he said he had no proof. I will let you decide what you want to believe.

Alan Mendelson"

Alan, here's another prime example of your lunacy. You really think people don't understand that you brought this dumb PM you sent axel only because you were unhappy it didn't get the reactions you craved? Just a silly, silly attempt.

BTW you can't be happy with your Governor. He's putting a real hurt into your needing to get back into casino action, isn't he. No relief from the sweaty palms, no free buffets, no exhilirating free play, no hosts, no casino ATM's, no check-cashing, and no casino credit.

What's an addict to do?

[AxelWolf]

Just for the record, I encouraged Alan to write something up and have me post it. At no time did he ask me to do it when he contacted me. I asked him if I could relay some of the things he said. He said he didn't care, because it was the truth. Sure, Alan could have been on a fishing Expedition knowing my history and willingness to do such things. And no, it's not one of those cases where he wants me to think it was my idea in the first place. I thought about all that and came to the conclusion, I don't care... even if that was his goal. I'm no fool, I'm certainly not being used or manipulated against my will. Personally, I think it's a good thing for him to get his message out there. Why not, it gives us all something to talk about. Should he have came here and done it himself? Perhaps, but he has his reasons for not wanting to do so. I don't care if those reasons are legitimate or not.

[Rob.Singer]

Probably one of the least offensive stunts he's tried )except for the false info contained within) if you count the numerous times he's texted me to post things for him. I just wish he'd shake off his costume and post whatever he wants. If he continues on as "Andrew" then no big deal either. Whether or not any of us wakes up tomorrow morning doesn't depend on anything he does or doesn't do.

[AxelWolf]

Probably one of the least offensive stunts he's tried )except for the false info contained within) if you count the numerous times he's texted me to post things for him. I just wish he'd shake off his costume and post whatever he wants. If he continues on as "Andrew" then no big deal either. Whether or not any of us wakes up tomorrow morning doesn't depend on anything he does or doesn't do.

personally I wish everybody would could just get along with a little bit of light-hearted razzing and banter. I guess that would probably get boring after a while. As I said before, and I'll say it again...People come for the information, but they stay for the drama.

[tableplay]

With the right machines in a place like that an attendent could make good money just keying certain games on and off the machines. Draw Till U Win comes to mind. That was actually being done at a truck stop in Wells, Nevada about 15 years ago. The attendent and a gambler had something going on that we couldn't get in on. The attendent would key the game off when the gambler was through playing for the day.

That's for sure. I remember Slotworld (near Gold Dust West) in Carson had a miniature satellite branch (Slotworld Cabaret Casino) on North Carson St. (actually the cross street Winnie at Carson). As late as 2016 this place was full of old Bally Gamemakers and double-up model Game Kings. It was almost always attended by one person, and it was almost always dead in there. Man the damage that could have been done or perhaps that was done by a colluding attendant and player.

Tableplay the main reason I don’t think too much damage can be done for TOO LONG is because casinos and slot companies track results. If the results are too far away from what’s considered statistically normal, alarm bells will go off.

This is how they knew something was going on with Nester and Kane. They were hitting one or two casinos too hard, and alarm bells went off.

It all comes back to greed. Once someone has a good play they usually push it too far. This is also what brought down Phil Ivey with his edge sorting play.

Because most people aren’t disciplined enough, casinos probably don’t have too much to worry about. People’s greed will kill most big money advantage or cheating plays.

It would definitely have to be gradual (the damage being done in aggregate - shear the sheep) and with very modest wins such that the extension branch was only a little less profitable (but always profitable) and then maybe only hitting it for a couple days a month. Anyway shit like this has gone down and may still being down with older non-server based inventories where the only audits occur by opening the individual game and checking. It definitely doesn't last forever and people who do this are risking their freedom.

[AxelWolf]

Spread out over enough casinos it would take a very long time and many millions of dollars before they would ever figured it out. I think it's more likely something else would go wrong before they would notice the money.

[Bob21]

Spread out over enough casinos it would take a very long time and many millions of dollars before they would ever figured it out. I think it's more likely something else would go wrong before they would notice the money.

That’s true with any business. The number one loss for all companies is internal theft. It’s in the billions of dollars range. It’s not customers stealing.

I expect casinos do as good job as any in minimizing losses due to internal theft. Of course it happens. I don’t think any business can stop all internal theft. This is the hardest type of theft to guard against, and there will always be some unethical people trying to take advantage of their company.

[Rob.Singer]

Probably one of the least offensive stunts he's tried )except for the false info contained within) if you count the numerous times he's texted me to post things for him. I just wish he'd shake off his costume and post whatever he wants. If he continues on as "Andrew" then no big deal either. Whether or not any of us wakes up tomorrow morning doesn't depend on anything he does or doesn't do.

personally I wish everybody would could just get along with a little bit of light-hearted razzing and banter. I guess that would probably get boring after a while. As I said before, and I'll say it again...People come for the information, but they stay for the drama.

Agree with that.

On a different note: I've been reading about what it might take before your Governor reopens the casinos. There's a lot of weight being put into the Wynn model, which looks absolutely foolish to me. NGC is reviewing all this.

Mandatory masks? Table players pulling down their masks for a few seconds every time they step up to a new table to play so the cameras can see who you really are? Covid-19 paks for EVERYBODY daily? 3 players/table? 6 feet of space around everybody (totally impossible to regulate or do--people walk by people and stop near other people)? Every other machine removed?

How do people drink at the video poker bars with facemasks? Is this finally the end to smoking, nightclubs and shows? And poker rooms won't do well. On and on with the nonsense. They expect people not to come on airplanes and families to stay at home. And who will want to stay in a germ-ridden HOTEL ROOM any more? They've got everybody scared to death now. What it means is a good many locations will close. It's not at all sustainable.

The only way to have a successful re-opening is to simply go back to the way it was before all this. If adults want to mingle, sit close, and enjoy their visit and gambling while there's potentially a new risk out there, that should be up to them. It's the only way. Nothing else will work. If things change towards insanity, I'll certainly stay away until they learn their lesson. Go back to normal or don't go.

[Dan Druff]

I don't think Alan will ever admit to being AndrewG because it's clear Alan wanted to leave behind all the forum baggage he had under his own name....

This includes:

- Defense of Rob's "system"

- Denial of the profitability of APs

- 18 yos

- Personal issues brought out here


Simply put, he wanted to post here without being trolled by that stuff, so he probably made a new identity. For those same reasons, he's unlikely to admit to that identity, unless he's ready to stop posting here.

I always struggled with what to do about the trolling of Alan. I didn't like seeing it occur, especially since he was the original founder of this forum. At the same time, he wasn't innocent. He intentionally posted provocative messages here, including ones he knew would draw people's ire (such as the questioning of APs on a forum full of APs).

So I told him that I could only put a stop to the trolling if he were to stop posting intentionally controversial stuff, but it never sunk in. He kept doing it, and eventually he quit. That was fine. I didn't ask him to leave, and he did bring good content here sometimes, but I respected his decision to leave, and even said I would keep the negativity about him to a minimum in his absence.

If he is Andrew, it would be nice if he just owned up to it, kept the AP antagonism away from here, and joined back in. I will say that Andrew hasn't antagonized people, so if that's the style he goes to, that will be great.

I think you need to contact Alan and find out exactly why he's not posting here anymore. It has to do with you, and not so much the other stuff, according to him.

If he said that, I'm frustrated to read such a thing, because that's absolutely not true.

The only way it "had to do with me" is that he wasn't happy with the way I was moderating in regards to the situation involving him.

Alan was always complaining that there was some "criminal offense" being committed against him here, or that someone was committing actionable libel. Then I got a further messages with a bunch of gibberish (and nonsense) legal justification backing his assertion, and how I'd be responsible in some way.

To anyone else, I would have been far less polite, but I tried to calmly explain to Alan the following:

1) If there's an actual criminal case going on, I'll cooperate with it. However, I will need to be contacted by verifiable law enforcement before I can take any action on such a claim. You can't just say "person X is under criminal investigation for his actions" and expect me to ban them. Law enforcement never contacted me, nor was I provided with any proof of any real criminal investigation.

2) Regarding libel, he was welcome to take any civil legal action against those he felt libeled him, but again, this had nothing to do with me. Furthermore, from what I could tell, most of the people giving him a hard time were simply ones who grew to dislike him from his own provocative and controversial posts. Also, as the owner of an open forum, I'm under no obligation to moderate for supposedly "libelous" content posted by others, the same way YouTube isn't responsible if someone posts a libelous video there.

Anyway, I simply couldn't get it through his head that he needs to simply leave the forum if it is upsetting him so much.

Finally, he chose to do exactly that. However, he wanted me to remove all of his posts, which I wasn't going to do, as it would break nine years of existing discussions, many of which he started. He then wanted me to at least stop any mention of him going forward. I told him that, again, I couldn't do that, as you can't make nine years of provocative, controversial posts, and then force everyone to stop taking about you when you leave.

However, I told him that if he chose to leave, I would remove any gratuitous troll posts about him going forward, but it would be at my discretion, and that I would not be censoring general discussion of him or his nine year posting history here.

He reluctantly accepted that offer, and I banned his account at his request. Despite the hassle he was causing me, I still had enough respect for his original ownership of the forum to try to make sure the forum wasn't going to cause him or his career harm going forward, even if it was his own fault. I also was willing to unban him if he wished to self-unban at any point, though I'll admit that it's been a lot more peaceful for me since he chose to leave.

Everyone should realize that this forum would have been toast several years ago if it weren't for my willingness to take it over. Alan was exasperated with the entire thing, felt it was a stressor and a burden, and was all ready to shut it down. I know this because I was the one running the technical side of it (but at the time made no admin decisions), and he told me to just turn it off and delete it. I suggested that instead he transfer ownership to me, and that I would take on the sole responsibility and hassle of the whole thing, and he agreed. So it was done.

I make no money from this place, nor do I try to do so. When I took it over, I quickly removed the obnoxious google ads here, and the forum had (and still has) literally zero income stream of any kind.

I don't mean any harm to Alan or anyone else here, and I hope he's doing better nowadays. I know he had plenty of stresses in his real life, and I took that into account when he was acting irrationally with me. I also saw him as a friend at one point, and I figured he thought the same of me, because he would call and text me sometimes about non-gambling personal issues, and I listened to him and gave advice. I even made a point to arrange to meet him in Nobu several years ago and introduce him to my girlfriend and son. It saddened me to have him treat me like I was the bad guy, but I figured much of that was his life stress talking, so I didn't take it personally.

AndrewG has made some good posts here, and has been a more toned down version of Alan. I still don't know if it's really Alan (my guess is that it is), and if that's the identity he wants to use here, that's fine.

[AndrewG]

Mr Dan, what doesn't make sense is why Mr Alan would transfer the forum to you if you wouldn't meet his conditions?

It seems to me that he gained nothing if his conditions were not met and the trolling continued.

For example, Mr Singer's continued attacks and allegations of addiction. And what about Mr Alan's daughter?

[BoSox]

Mr Dan, what doesn't make sense is why Mr Alan would transfer the forum to you if you wouldn't meet his conditions?

It seems to me that he gained nothing if his conditions were not met and the trolling continued.

For example, Mr Singer's continued attacks and allegations of addiction. And what about Mr Alan's daughter?

Was that considered a mob threat?

[The Boz]

Mr Dan, what doesn't make sense is why Mr Alan would transfer the forum to you if you wouldn't meet his conditions?

It seems to me that he gained nothing if his conditions were not met and the trolling continued.

For example, Mr Singer's continued attacks and allegations of addiction. And what about Mr Alan's daughter?

Since you seem so interested in Alan and his history, I have a suggestion for you.

Why not go back and read the history of him and others here. If you are objective about it, I think you will agree with most of us he has led one of the most pathetic lives you can read about. It’s of Greek Tragedy proportions and would probably make you feel for the guy as well.

I do wonder at times though if Alan was actually just a writer creating controversy? Because it’s hard to believe someone could be that sad and uneducated about things he commented on. It seems he wanted to be a punching bag and said things that would make him one.

You Andrew seem to be a defender for the guy. Perhaps if you still believe the guy has been slighted, perhaps you could join at WoV if you are not a member there, and get his side of things in private to ensure the view here isn’t one sided.

Sure it’s a lot of work and I’m not sure Alan would cooperate, but it would give you a better understanding of why he is such a laughingstock here. But also why some here feel so bad for him and believe he is an addict and bought his family into his situation.

And if you could, ask him why he is so jealous of Rob Singer, how cool it was to see 18 Yo’s in a row, interview the Queen and be rewarded for a lifetime of success by now living in a Million Dollar Home overlooking the Vegas Strip from his rooftop patio.

[The Boz]

As for the “libel” claims and threats of lawsuits, perhaps Alan should realize he made himself a public figure. If he has any concerns on how public figures are treated, perhaps he should visit Twitter. Look up any public figure and see the abuse they take on each and every post. Including from other public figures. The courts would be filled with lawsuits if 1/1000th of the people complained.

As for an Alan lawsuit, can you imagine the defense discovery requests?

10 years of Business Records, his Tax Returns and Win/Loss statements from Stations and Caesars. And we all know Alan always played with a card to get that “free” Breakfast and Glass on OJ.

After seeing the records the Defense would rest without calling witnesses.

[AndrewG]

Mr The Boz, what I read is what Mr AxelWolf posted here from Mr Alan. Mr Alan said he was deceived by Mr Singer over a period of time and was tricked to put Mr Singer on his TV show using false claims.

Mr Singer's reaction to that was to call Mr Alan an addict which can be libelous. And then Mr Singer who talks about Alan's daughter? How relevant is that?

Some forums have rules against personal attacks. This one doesn't.

That brings me back to my previous post. If Mr Alan wanted to shut down the forum to stop the abuse, why would he hand over the forum to Mr Dan without a condition that the abuse be stopped? That just doesn't make sense. You wouldn't want to close an abusive forum and then turn it over to someone to let the abuse continue, would you?

While I work for a lawyer I am not a lawyer myself. Yes, Mr Dan is immune under the Internet exemptions of the libel law and to some degree there are also protections afforded to him under the criminal Internet harassment laws. I am slightly familiar with these new laws here in Nevada and California. But there are also unwritten laws of human decency.

Mr The Boz how would you like it if someone who disagreed with your politics posted as their signature line "The Boz lost his restaurants in bankruptcy from a gambling addiction"?

How would Mr Dan like it if someone used a signature line "Don't buy shares in Dan's WSOP tournaments because you'll lose money"?

It's a question of decency, isn't it? By the way Mr The Boz there's a big difference between losing money in a casino and being called an addicted gambler. Isn't there?

So again, Mr Alan just transferred the forum to Mr Dan knowing full well the trolling would continue? That's hard to believe.

[monet]

Everyone should realize that this forum would have been toast several years ago if it weren't for my willingness to take it over.

I do realize this and I still believe in the way you run or moderate a forum.
Keep up the good fight!

It is amazing the background that AndrewG knows about this Forum, Alan and Rob Singer!
That had to be some serious reading, taking the time and effort to dig through years of history and posts!?
You would think AndrewG would have more important things to do?
Not sure why any new member would care to get involved in all that research and in the middle of Alan and Singer?
Nice Job Andy!!

It seems odd to have to talk to AndrewG over here and Alan over at WoV.
If I didn't know any better I would say that AndrewG is Alan but I know they are two different people... right?

[redietz]

Decency? Here? Have you read what has been allowed regarding deceased spouses here? "Singer" has been allowed to just lie about people, saying whatever he wants whenever he wants. With me, public figure doesn't really enter into it, as I am not a public figure by legal definition.

My suggestion to Alan, wherever he may be, is simply that his father was a mob lawyer. As life winds down, and people have done you wrong, it's time to do them some wrong to balance the scales. Otherwise those people who have done you wrong may also do others wrong, so you have a responsibility going forward. Obviously, Dan allows it. So it goes without saying that he is part of the equation.

Plus, "Singer" publicly went after your daughter. The gloves should be entirely off.

[AndrewG]

I just reviewed Mr Dan's rules, specifically:

3) You may not post personally identifying information of any members of the site, or their family members. Personal information is defined as last names, phone numbers, address, workplace or school information, family member information, pictures (unless already voluntary posted by the member). You also may not link to other sites where such information is displayed.

4) You may not to threaten or harass other members of the system. You are allowed to engage in spirited debate or discussion, but targeted harassment of members is prohibited.

Yes, Mr Redietz, I am very aware of Mr Singer's attacks. Somehow he's worthy of a hall pass, and how ironic that is.

What is most curious is that Mr Dan commands what you can't do but he says nothing about what he will do if his commandments are broken.

[tableplay]

Spread out over enough casinos it would take a very long time and many millions of dollars before they would ever figured it out. I think it's more likely something else would go wrong before they would notice the money.

For the double-up bug in particular - yes I totally agree. I was talking about slot attendant/player collusions in general at a specific casino in my post above (not that anything you wrote disagrees with this and I'm not assuming you thought otherwise when you read my post above).

[AxelWolf]

I just reviewed Mr Dan's rules, specifically:

3) You may not post personally identifying information of any members of the site, or their family members. Personal information is defined as last names, phone numbers, address, workplace or school information, family member information, pictures (unless already voluntary posted by the member). You also may not link to other sites where such information is displayed.

4) You may not to threaten or harass other members of the system. You are allowed to engage in spirited debate or discussion, but targeted harassment of members is prohibited.

Yes, Mr Redietz, I am very aware of Mr Singer's attacks. Somehow he's worthy of a hall pass, and how ironic that is.

What is most curious is that Mr Dan commands what you can't do but he says nothing about what he will do if his commandments are broken.

[tableplay]

Everyone should realize that this forum would have been toast several years ago if it weren't for my willingness to take it over.

I do realize this and I still believe in the way you run or moderate a forum.
Keep up the good fight!

It is amazing the background that AndrewG knows about this Forum, Alan and Rob Singer!
That had to be some serious reading, taking the time and effort to dig through years of history and posts!?
You would think AndrewG would have more important things to do?
Not sure why any new member would care to get involved in all that research and in the middle of Alan and Singer?
Nice Job Andy!!

It seems odd to have to talk to AndrewG over here and Alan over at WoV.
If I didn't know any better I would say that AndrewG is Alan but I know they are two different people... right?

If they work together (by phone/DMs,PMs/in person meetup with masks on, etc.), I bet AndrewG and Alan (Mickey posted a Twitter post screenshot of Alan's strong curiosity about this bet) could really pin down the specifics of the 6-7-8 craps bet (casinos which offer it;best odds for those casinos that do offer it,etc.). A bet which both fellows are really curious about despite its obscurity and lack of interest for the remaining 99.99% of habitual craps players (most of whom don't even know it exists I am guessing) and 100% disinterest amongst non-craps and casual craps casino patrons.