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Thread: Quick Notes on Boyd Comp Program

  1. #1
    Since there is some misinformation on this site regarding ease of comps at certain Boyd properties, I thought I'd run down what I know. I am not a Boyd expert, a Main Street Station expert, or anything like that. I have, however, used Boyd as a core element for comped rooms in Las Vegas and have routinely stayed at Boyd properties for six to 20 comped nights a year going back decades.

    I recommend Jean Scott's old blog entries at LVA, especially during the changeover to the new comp system that came about at Boyd in 2018. She kept tabs on the comp ebb and flows. Also, another forum site has a large Boyd comp thread that chronicles the evolution of the system and people's attempts to cope with it. Anyone can PM me for that site address.

    In 2018, Boyd, after a series of comp adjustments both good and bad (mostly bad, of course) eventually just tightened the whole thing up and tried to structure it more like CET's programs. In other words, the little guy got substantially less, and the bigger players got slightly less. Scott chronicles her attempts to figure out the system in a series of 2018 entries.

    Anyway, the basic problem is that you need to arrive at 750 tier credits these days to accumulate points, and points are what you spend for food and other stuff. Until you get to 750 tier credit status, you don't get points. You'll get some marginal offers, but you won't accumulate points. The additional issue here is that the formula for how much play earns how many tier credits can't be discerned at most BConnected desks. So if you sit and play two hours of video poker on a Tuesday "Young at Heart" day so as to get a comped buffet by earning five tier credits, there is no guarantee that the two hours of quarter vp will get the job done. If you sit and run $20 through Da Vinci Diamonds once, though, you'll probably get your five tier credits and your buffet.

    Basically, they've frozen vp out of the comp system as best they can. If you do any kind of math for vp, it takes an awesome amount to get you to Sapphire, at which time you begin accumulating points. If you go to Main Street Station, some of the better-paying vp, including deuces wild to the left of the south entrance, has little tags on them announcing that they accrue points at half or none of the regular rate. Now that refers to points. I have no idea what the tier credit accrual is, if any.

    This is one very good reason why I find it a little silly for ostensible vp experts to be advertising for the Boyd comp system. Boyd really does not want your action.

    Next, for practical purposes, it's been my experience that the downtown properties kind of operate as one component and the Orleans/GC operate somewhat separately. Downtown is Cal, MSS, and Fremont. Availability downtown of comp rooms is no measure of availability of off-strip rooms is what I'm saying.

    Boyd routinely allows food to be bought via points at a 40% discount, sometimes more. That's my primary use of points. I had about 200,000 points stashed, but have worked it down to about 60,000 ($97 in food, to be precise) and will blow that at coffee shops next trip. I won't even attempt to play vp to get free buffets and such; I'll just plop down at some stupid slot machine and run a few bucks through. That's what they want me to do, and I'll accommodate them. But they've lost any video poker play from me in the process.

    My best guess is that if you run 3K or 4K through downtown as an out-of-towner, you'll probably get some two-nights-free-every-three months offers with a small food credit and small free play, and maybe better initially if you haven't played there before. But I would recommend checking Scott's blog and the other site's Boyd thread for better information that what I'm presenting here. The system can be baffling. I know someone who pumped through 11K on penny slots in a day, and their very basic offers did not noticeably change.
    Last edited by redietz; 02-15-2020 at 08:14 AM.

  2. #2
    I'll add a little to this. I pretty much go to Vegas once a year now with a buddy. In December. During dead week. We have consistently stiffed Boyd for a decade....only playing Match Plays or Free Slot Plays on their properties. In fact, that's pretty much how we gamble on these trips...playing all the coupons in the MRB and ACG, Win Cards, New player sign ups, etc.

    We both got two nights comped at the Cal in December. There was a short period of time last year where it looked like Boyd was comping December downtown rooms to anyone with a pulse and a players card...and the pulse was optional....so there's more to their room comp algorithm than coin in.

  3. #3
    Boyd is crap! Used to be a decent chain, at least here in Vegas. Been going downhill for a while now. I guess it was about 3 years ago that they really began to crack down on machine/VP AP's. They were the first to cut reduce mail offers here in Vegas and others followed. Changes for the worse, to the comp program system have already been discussed. And blackjack, oh boy!

    Boyd got rid of all it's playable shoe blackjack games in the past few years. There used to be playable shoe games at Sam's town, Orleans, Gold coast and Alainte. Now nothing. No shoe games except CSM, which Boyd thinks can't be beat. There are still a couple shoe game tables at Sam's and Alainte, but they are never open, even on a Saturday night. The only thing playable is double deck and that is hawked super closely.

    And don't even get me started on what Boyd did to East Cannery here in Vegas. They took a nice little local casino, and completely gutted it. Closed the buffet, closed the sportsbook and race book (except for a small counter to wager sports), closed the sportsbook deli. Reduced the table game area down to about 5 tables with no playable blackjack. Took out a substantial number of slot and video poker machines. There are now huge open spaces on the casino floor. Doesn't make any sense to me.....completely gutted the place.....to the point there is never more than a dozen patrons in the building. When you drive in, you can always park in the first row.

  4. #4
    B Connected....B Played....B Conned....B Done
    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  5. #5
    Why all the constant bellyaching about how this group of casinos or that group of casinos are continuously belt-tightening in such an anti-customer way? We've seen it time and time again here--CET non-stop screws its TR members more and more each day, yet there's people here who just keep going back to them for insane...aka addicted...reasons. We've seen multiple complaints about how Stations operates these days. Now it's Boyd. You'd think people would learn their lesson by now.

    Apparently not, and obviously some here have trouble understanding Business 101. These casinos aren't in it just to hand out free money and free stuff. The pressure's always on to perform better and better, which translates into taking unpopular measures most of the time. And with that comes the separation of players into the saps, and into those who know how to adapt and adjust.

    Figure out who you are, and if you just can't seem to be part of the latter group, consider taking up another addiction. Stop with the weakass whining over how certain properties or slot clubs choose to run their operations. This is an options business. Figure it out.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Since there is some misinformation on this site regarding ease of comps at certain Boyd properties, I thought I'd run down what I know. I am not a Boyd expert, a Main Street Station expert, or anything like that. I have, however, used Boyd as a core element for comped rooms in Las Vegas and have routinely stayed at Boyd properties for six to 20 comped nights a year going back decades.

    I recommend Jean Scott's old blog entries at LVA, especially during the changeover to the new comp system that came about at Boyd in 2018. She kept tabs on the comp ebb and flows. Also, another forum site has a large Boyd comp thread that chronicles the evolution of the system and people's attempts to cope with it. Anyone can PM me for that site address.

    In 2018, Boyd, after a series of comp adjustments both good and bad (mostly bad, of course) eventually just tightened the whole thing up and tried to structure it more like CET's programs. In other words, the little guy got substantially less, and the bigger players got slightly less. Scott chronicles her attempts to figure out the system in a series of 2018 entries.

    Anyway, the basic problem is that you need to arrive at 750 tier credits these days to accumulate points, and points are what you spend for food and other stuff. Until you get to 750 tier credit status, you don't get points. You'll get some marginal offers, but you won't accumulate points. The additional issue here is that the formula for how much play earns how many tier credits can't be discerned at most BConnected desks. So if you sit and play two hours of video poker on a Tuesday "Young at Heart" day so as to get a comped buffet by earning five tier credits, there is no guarantee that the two hours of quarter vp will get the job done. If you sit and run $20 through Da Vinci Diamonds once, though, you'll probably get your five tier credits and your buffet.

    Basically, they've frozen vp out of the comp system as best they can. If you do any kind of math for vp, it takes an awesome amount to get you to Sapphire, at which time you begin accumulating points. If you go to Main Street Station, some of the better-paying vp, including deuces wild to the left of the south entrance, has little tags on them announcing that they accrue points at half or none of the regular rate. Now that refers to points. I have no idea what the tier credit accrual is, if any.

    This is one very good reason why I find it a little silly for ostensible vp experts to be advertising for the Boyd comp system. Boyd really does not want your action.

    Next, for practical purposes, it's been my experience that the downtown properties kind of operate as one component and the Orleans/GC operate somewhat separately. Downtown is Cal, MSS, and Fremont. Availability downtown of comp rooms is no measure of availability of off-strip rooms is what I'm saying.

    Boyd routinely allows food to be bought via points at a 40% discount, sometimes more. That's my primary use of points. I had about 200,000 points stashed, but have worked it down to about 60,000 ($97 in food, to be precise) and will blow that at coffee shops next trip. I won't even attempt to play vp to get free buffets and such; I'll just plop down at some stupid slot machine and run a few bucks through. That's what they want me to do, and I'll accommodate them. But they've lost any video poker play from me in the process.

    My best guess is that if you run 3K or 4K through downtown as an out-of-towner, you'll probably get some two-nights-free-every-three months offers with a small food credit and small free play, and maybe better initially if you haven't played there before. But I would recommend checking Scott's blog and the other site's Boyd thread for better information that what I'm presenting here. The system can be baffling. I know someone who pumped through 11K on penny slots in a day, and their very basic offers did not noticeably change.
    Thanks for the info, Redietz. From your description it looks to me like the Boyd properties downtown are just vulture stops and thats it. No use tying up time running vp action. It's my educated guess they at least have Farmvilles since they do everywhere else in the country.

    When I determine a place is just a vulture stop I don't go out of my way to run action on anything. Just take the vulture plays and move on. It they send something in the mail fine, if they dont I dont care.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  7. #7
    You probably know this mickey, but I find the better mailings from running money thru the VP machines comes from casinos that aren't part of the large outfits like Harrahs, MGM, etc. Hard Rock was good before this Branson takeover. South Point is good if you plan on losing money. Silverton is one of the best, win or lose. There's probably a handful of others but things change so fast these days it's hard to keep up.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    You probably know this mickey, but I find the better mailings from running money thru the VP machines comes from casinos that aren't part of the large outfits like Harrahs, MGM, etc. Hard Rock was good before this Branson takeover. South Point is good if you plan on losing money. Silverton is one of the best, win or lose. There's probably a handful of others but things change so fast these days it's hard to keep up.
    I always have to do a cost/benefit analysis with running action on video poker for room comp. I have to ask myself "what is a spot worth just vulturing slots?" And "how good is the video poker and how many hours do I have to play to get the room comp." If the vulturing is good then I'm giving up hourly rate there to run action on the video poker. So is it worth the time and money to run the action on the video poker or should I just pay for the room myself? If the vulturing is worth $70 an hour and the video poker is breakeven then I really shouldn't be running vp action to get room comp. I should just pay for the room myself.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  9. #9
    What makes Boyd a bad choice is that their points and comps for video poker is a complete mystery. Look at their rules. There is no formula.

    Station Casinos is just as bad. On a recent trip I bought in for $500 at table games, played 4 hours with bets ranging from $25 to $50 and scored 1500 points. Then I played slots with $35 for a half hour making $1 bets and scored 3,000 points. What sense does that make?

  10. #10
    As I mentioned, there appears to be no tier credit formula. I played video poker for almost an hour on a Young at Heart day and didn't even accrue one tier credit. I played a couple minutes of a slot machine and had a tier credit appear. The booth people just shake their heads and say, "Don't play video poker."

  11. #11
    The Boyd formula is the worst for TC. First, new players get no RC until they reach 750 TC. Second, the calculations on Vp are a mystery. Low variance Vp takes $100+ coin to move TC and no one knows the threshold. Vp players have abandoned the Orleans and Gold Coast. Three years ago the YAH promotion was very strong and the Orleans was very busy for a Wednesday, now it’s just a trickle. Sadly, Boyd has forgot its demographics (which was meat and potatoes players) in favor of softball, bowling, basketball tournament groups that will pay a higher rate for a weekend room and pay $10 for midnight egg specials. I guess they had to play for the Stardust/Echelon debacle (how to turn $2 Billion into $300 million). Truly the corporate bean counters took over. Sam B would shaking his head in disgust.
    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  12. #12
    On the other hand, after you get past 750 TC, the tier benefits are minimal. Other than line passes Emerald is crap. Look at their “Lounge” at the Orleans. They do have regular multipliers for RC. Remember in the old days, Emerald was 3x’s RC, so there was a benefit. Today, nada. So why worry about TC.
    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by jpfromla View Post
    The Boyd formula is the worst for TC. First, new players get no RC until they reach 750 TC. Second, the calculations on Vp are a mystery. Low variance Vp takes $100+ coin to move TC and no one knows the threshold. Vp players have abandoned the Orleans and Gold Coast. Three years ago the YAH promotion was very strong and the Orleans was very busy for a Wednesday, now it’s just a trickle. Sadly, Boyd has forgot its demographics (which was meat and potatoes players) in favor of softball, bowling, basketball tournament groups that will pay a higher rate for a weekend room and pay $10 for midnight egg specials. I guess they had to play for the Stardust/Echelon debacle (how to turn $2 Billion into $300 million). Truly the corporate bean counters took over. Sam B would shaking his head in disgust.

    Stardust was my old Saturday hangout, so this post brings great memories and current sadness.

    I will say -- I also cringe at the "specials," especially in the Orleans coffee shop. Boyd probably writes off half the sales as comps, so the inflated sticker price for "breakfast specials" generates big write-offs. Once I blow my remaining points this trip, those $10 egg specials (coffee extra) will no longer be on my agenda. The Orleans coffee shop is a nice room, but it is a semi-gouge.

  14. #14
    All this confusion over the Boyd system....and after none other than Jean Scott published a clear and defining explanation! This thread is starting to border on blasphemy.

    No doubt after reading this--Boyd is as bad as any of them...if only for their incoherent. So glad the Queen cleaned it all up for everybody!

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    You probably know this mickey, but I find the better mailings from running money thru the VP machines comes from casinos that aren't part of the large outfits like Harrahs, MGM, etc. Hard Rock was good before this Branson takeover. South Point is good if you plan on losing money. Silverton is one of the best, win or lose. There's probably a handful of others but things change so fast these days it's hard to keep up.
    You're not keeping it, perhaps never have.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    You probably know this mickey, but I find the better mailings from running money thru the VP machines comes from casinos that aren't part of the large outfits like Harrahs, MGM, etc. Hard Rock was good before this Branson takeover. South Point is good if you plan on losing money. Silverton is one of the best, win or lose. There's probably a handful of others but things change so fast these days it's hard to keep up.
    You're not keeping it, perhaps never have.
    Incoherent as usual. Not keeping what?

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    You probably know this mickey, but I find the better mailings from running money thru the VP machines comes from casinos that aren't part of the large outfits like Harrahs, MGM, etc. Hard Rock was good before this Branson takeover. South Point is good if you plan on losing money. Silverton is one of the best, win or lose. There's probably a handful of others but things change so fast these days it's hard to keep up.
    You're not keeping it, perhaps never have.
    Incoherent as usual. Not keeping what?
    He's implying that you're not keeping the money.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.


    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



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  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER View Post

    You're not keeping it, perhaps never have.
    Incoherent as usual. Not keeping what?
    He's implying that you're not keeping the money.
    That's why only someone like you would understand his incoherency. Both of you--read my post. It has to do with opinions asked for by mickey. And I didn't see mickey paying for that info.

    Wise up.

  19. #19
    Boyd's comp system for VP isn't very transparent. In fact, I've never talked to an employee who really understood it. Some math guys from on other boards have done calculations based on a games EV. I find their calculations reasonably close to my actual results. While I don't have my notes here, my normal MSS game is 9/6 JOB and requires around $109 coin in per tier credit. So while TC earning rates aren't transparent, they are certainly possible to estimate.

    It also follows that +EV games like 10/7 DB don't earn TC's at all. While I have heard a report of someone doing so, my own past DB play has netted me 0 TC's

    The 750 TC Sapphire level is essential to maintain if you want to play +EV VP. If I ever lost Sapphire, I would probably stop playing at Boyd. Once you get it, you also keep it through the end of the next calendar year. A patient person could earn 750 TC by playing around $85K coin in on .25c JOB at BHB for little expected loss by using the 4OAK scratch cards to offset the game's -EV. A less patient person could either slot vulture or hope for the best while earning a TC per $5 through slots. YMMV a bit because the TC count resets to zero every time you change machines, games, and probably denominations.

    MSS/Cal recently eliminated my free monthly nights in my mailed offers. The reasons might matter to you, but I don't actually know. The drop came after a drop in my daily coin in, some Royals, winning trips, being chronically over-comped, and perhaps playing too obviously as a low stakes AP. I still was able to book 4 free DT Boyd nights this month and again in May using my Sapphire rate calendar. I was still able to use my FP offer and play the room offer kiosk game that netted $50 FP. In addition you can usually play for free buffets through the kiosk. This stay I was also comped a meal each at Redwood, California Noodle, and 777 brewpub based on VP play. At BHB, I am surrounded by VP players on comped stays.

    While Boyd gutted the benefits with VP in general, there still are sweet spots. If you have celebrated your 50th birthday, you qualify for the Tuesday Senior days with the 11X point multipliers. There are many Boyd games that turn +EV with an extra .55% (1 point requires $2 coin in on most VP). On several holidays they offer the same multiplier for everyone.

    MSS has several 10/7 DB machines for .25c to $1 that aren't eligible for promotions and require $3 per point. It is a 100.17% game W/O points + .033 points + the value of the scratch cards. Since most of these SC's are worth $2 for .25 and above denominations (less than quarters are $1) the added EV for dollar players are 1/4th of that for quarter players.

    I'm suggesting here that the rumors of Boyd VP comps' demise are a bit exaggerated. It's not nearly as good as before, but a lot of savvy VP players are staying on comped stays and even coming home with a little extra money.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    Boyd's comp system for VP isn't very transparent. In fact, I've never talked to an employee who really understood it. Some math guys from on other boards have done calculations based on a games EV. I find their calculations reasonably close to my actual results. While I don't have my notes here, my normal MSS game is 9/6 JOB and requires around $109 coin in per tier credit. So while TC earning rates aren't transparent, they are certainly possible to estimate.

    It also follows that +EV games like 10/7 DB don't earn TC's at all. While I have heard a report of someone doing so, my own past DB play has netted me 0 TC's

    The 750 TC Sapphire level is essential to maintain if you want to play +EV VP. If I ever lost Sapphire, I would probably stop playing at Boyd. Once you get it, you also keep it through the end of the next calendar year. A patient person could earn 750 TC by playing around $85K coin in on .25c JOB at BHB for little expected loss by using the 4OAK scratch cards to offset the game's -EV. A less patient person could either slot vulture or hope for the best while earning a TC per $5 through slots. YMMV a bit because the TC count resets to zero every time you change machines, games, and probably denominations.

    MSS/Cal recently eliminated my free monthly nights in my mailed offers. The reasons might matter to you, but I don't actually know. The drop came after a drop in my daily coin in, some Royals, winning trips, being chronically over-comped, and perhaps playing too obviously as a low stakes AP. I still was able to book 4 free DT Boyd nights this month and again in May using my Sapphire rate calendar. I was still able to use my FP offer and play the room offer kiosk game that netted $50 FP. In addition you can usually play for free buffets through the kiosk. This stay I was also comped a meal each at Redwood, California Noodle, and 777 brewpub based on VP play. At BHB, I am surrounded by VP players on comped stays.

    While Boyd gutted the benefits with VP in general, there still are sweet spots. If you have celebrated your 50th birthday, you qualify for the Tuesday Senior days with the 11X point multipliers. There are many Boyd games that turn +EV with an extra .55% (1 point requires $2 coin in on most VP). On several holidays they offer the same multiplier for everyone.

    MSS has several 10/7 DB machines for .25c to $1 that aren't eligible for promotions and require $3 per point. It is a 100.17% game W/O points + .033 points + the value of the scratch cards. Since most of these SC's are worth $2 for .25 and above denominations (less than quarters are $1) the added EV for dollar players are 1/4th of that for quarter players.

    I'm suggesting here that the rumors of Boyd VP comps' demise are a bit exaggerated. It's not nearly as good as before, but a lot of savvy VP players are staying on comped stays and even coming home with a little extra money.
    Top notch info sir. Thanks.

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