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Thread: Quick Notes on Boyd Comp Program

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    Boyd's comp system for VP isn't very transparent. In fact, I've never talked to an employee who really understood it. Some math guys from on other boards have done calculations based on a games EV. I find their calculations reasonably close to my actual results. While I don't have my notes here, my normal MSS game is 9/6 JOB and requires around $109 coin in per tier credit. So while TC earning rates aren't transparent, they are certainly possible to estimate.

    It also follows that +EV games like 10/7 DB don't earn TC's at all. While I have heard a report of someone doing so, my own past DB play has netted me 0 TC's

    The 750 TC Sapphire level is essential to maintain if you want to play +EV VP. If I ever lost Sapphire, I would probably stop playing at Boyd. Once you get it, you also keep it through the end of the next calendar year. A patient person could earn 750 TC by playing around $85K coin in on .25c JOB at BHB for little expected loss by using the 4OAK scratch cards to offset the game's -EV. A less patient person could either slot vulture or hope for the best while earning a TC per $5 through slots. YMMV a bit because the TC count resets to zero every time you change machines, games, and probably denominations.

    MSS/Cal recently eliminated my free monthly nights in my mailed offers. The reasons might matter to you, but I don't actually know. The drop came after a drop in my daily coin in, some Royals, winning trips, being chronically over-comped, and perhaps playing too obviously as a low stakes AP. I still was able to book 4 free DT Boyd nights this month and again in May using my Sapphire rate calendar. I was still able to use my FP offer and play the room offer kiosk game that netted $50 FP. In addition you can usually play for free buffets through the kiosk. This stay I was also comped a meal each at Redwood, California Noodle, and 777 brewpub based on VP play. At BHB, I am surrounded by VP players on comped stays.

    While Boyd gutted the benefits with VP in general, there still are sweet spots. If you have celebrated your 50th birthday, you qualify for the Tuesday Senior days with the 11X point multipliers. There are many Boyd games that turn +EV with an extra .55% (1 point requires $2 coin in on most VP). On several holidays they offer the same multiplier for everyone.

    MSS has several 10/7 DB machines for .25c to $1 that aren't eligible for promotions and require $3 per point. It is a 100.17% game W/O points + .033 points + the value of the scratch cards. Since most of these SC's are worth $2 for .25 and above denominations (less than quarters are $1) the added EV for dollar players are 1/4th of that for quarter players.

    I'm suggesting here that the rumors of Boyd VP comps' demise are a bit exaggerated. It's not nearly as good as before, but a lot of savvy VP players are staying on comped stays and even coming home with a little extra money.
    Agree....hit the bonus days....enjoy the breakfast buffet at the Orleans and call it a day.
    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    Boyd's comp system for VP isn't very transparent. In fact, I've never talked to an employee who really understood it. Some math guys from on other boards have done calculations based on a games EV. I find their calculations reasonably close to my actual results. While I don't have my notes here, my normal MSS game is 9/6 JOB and requires around $109 coin in per tier credit. So while TC earning rates aren't transparent, they are certainly possible to estimate.

    It also follows that +EV games like 10/7 DB don't earn TC's at all. While I have heard a report of someone doing so, my own past DB play has netted me 0 TC's

    The 750 TC Sapphire level is essential to maintain if you want to play +EV VP. If I ever lost Sapphire, I would probably stop playing at Boyd. Once you get it, you also keep it through the end of the next calendar year. A patient person could earn 750 TC by playing around $85K coin in on .25c JOB at BHB for little expected loss by using the 4OAK scratch cards to offset the game's -EV. A less patient person could either slot vulture or hope for the best while earning a TC per $5 through slots. YMMV a bit because the TC count resets to zero every time you change machines, games, and probably denominations.

    MSS/Cal recently eliminated my free monthly nights in my mailed offers. The reasons might matter to you, but I don't actually know. The drop came after a drop in my daily coin in, some Royals, winning trips, being chronically over-comped, and perhaps playing too obviously as a low stakes AP. I still was able to book 4 free DT Boyd nights this month and again in May using my Sapphire rate calendar. I was still able to use my FP offer and play the room offer kiosk game that netted $50 FP. In addition you can usually play for free buffets through the kiosk. This stay I was also comped a meal each at Redwood, California Noodle, and 777 brewpub based on VP play. At BHB, I am surrounded by VP players on comped stays.

    While Boyd gutted the benefits with VP in general, there still are sweet spots. If you have celebrated your 50th birthday, you qualify for the Tuesday Senior days with the 11X point multipliers. There are many Boyd games that turn +EV with an extra .55% (1 point requires $2 coin in on most VP). On several holidays they offer the same multiplier for everyone.

    MSS has several 10/7 DB machines for .25c to $1 that aren't eligible for promotions and require $3 per point. It is a 100.17% game W/O points + .033 points + the value of the scratch cards. Since most of these SC's are worth $2 for .25 and above denominations (less than quarters are $1) the added EV for dollar players are 1/4th of that for quarter players.

    I'm suggesting here that the rumors of Boyd VP comps' demise are a bit exaggerated. It's not nearly as good as before, but a lot of savvy VP players are staying on comped stays and even coming home with a little extra money.
    If most or all of this is accurate then no true AP would bother wasting time with Boyd. It isn't within an AP's purview to get buffets and comp nights while playing break-even or for minor money at the machines.

  3. #23
    I was under the impression that this thread was about the Boyd comp system. I guess that the definition of a "true AP" is a matter of opinion. AP stands for advantage player. One can, and many do, AP for small stakes. Basically for free or cheap vacations with small average wins. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Others make a living off it and need to play for higher stakes or bigger edges. Some of the stuff I play elsewhere, draws pros as well, but the DT Boyd stuff seems to be mostly for recreational players. I think that Jean Scott use to play $2 NSUD on point multiplier days at GC. It would be a small edge, but I have no idea at how much FP that got her.

  4. #24
    Yes -- "AP" doesn't automatically mean "professional AP." It's a way of playing, not a vocation label.

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    I was under the impression that this thread was about the Boyd comp system. I guess that the definition of a "true AP" is a matter of opinion. AP stands for advantage player. One can, and many do, AP for small stakes. Basically for free or cheap vacations with small average wins. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Others make a living off it and need to play for higher stakes or bigger edges. Some of the stuff I play elsewhere, draws pros as well, but the DT Boyd stuff seems to be mostly for recreational players. I think that Jean Scott use to play $2 NSUD on point multiplier days at GC. It would be a small edge, but I have no idea at how much FP that got her.
    Jean Scott went broke playing these theoretical edges people like to claim she plowed, and she had to scadaddle on out to Georgia where her children could take care of her and "Brad" after they finally were able to escape their biggest curse.

    Yes, there are "AP's" who play for meager edges, which is why almost every LV vp player who plays regularly describes themselves as an AP. But what gave you the idea that anyone here needed your advice or didn't already know what they're doing? Big whoop you know the in's & outs of the downtown casinos. Nobody really cares about how to make a trip to LV that doesn't result in winning but does result in scoring comps, because every half-savvy gambler already knows they can figure that out on their own. Coupons and scratch cards are for beggars. God's gift to gamblers you are not.

    If you can afford a taxi or Uber to Bootlegger on S. LV Blvd., see if you can figure out how to get involved in what is their true, solid 104.4% advantage play there. You can even do it overnight as I did last night....if your mommy let's you.

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    I was under the impression that this thread was about the Boyd comp system. I guess that the definition of a "true AP" is a matter of opinion. AP stands for advantage player. One can, and many do, AP for small stakes. Basically for free or cheap vacations with small average wins. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Others make a living off it and need to play for higher stakes or bigger edges. Some of the stuff I play elsewhere, draws pros as well, but the DT Boyd stuff seems to be mostly for recreational players. I think that Jean Scott use to play $2 NSUD on point multiplier days at GC. It would be a small edge, but I have no idea at how much FP that got her.
    Jean Scott went broke playing these theoretical edges people like to claim she plowed, and she had to scadaddle on out to Georgia where her children could take care of her and "Brad" after they finally were able to escape their biggest curse.

    Yes, there are "AP's" who play for meager edges, which is why almost every LV vp player who plays regularly describes themselves as an AP. But what gave you the idea that anyone here needed your advice or didn't already know what they're doing? Big whoop you know the in's & outs of the downtown casinos. Nobody really cares about how to make a trip to LV that doesn't result in winning but does result in scoring comps, because every half-savvy gambler already knows they can figure that out on their own. Coupons and scratch cards are for beggars. God's gift to gamblers you are not.

    If you can afford a taxi or Uber to Bootlegger on S. LV Blvd., see if you can figure out how to get involved in what is their true, solid 104.4% advantage play there. You can even do it overnight as I did last night....if your mommy let's you.
    And this is why we can’t have nice things here. Robbo, this new poster gave incredibly useful information to both new and experienced posters but you can’t let it go.

    Are you seriously that jealous or upset about his or her post that you have to denigrate them? Why?

    If you are what you say, which I am not questioning, why did these posts bother you?

    Dan should be happy as hell Wasilla joined and contributed, but right away you get pissed about it.

    Life is way too short to be so angry all the time. And coming from me, that is saying a lot.

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    I was under the impression that this thread was about the Boyd comp system. I guess that the definition of a "true AP" is a matter of opinion. AP stands for advantage player. One can, and many do, AP for small stakes. Basically for free or cheap vacations with small average wins. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Others make a living off it and need to play for higher stakes or bigger edges. Some of the stuff I play elsewhere, draws pros as well, but the DT Boyd stuff seems to be mostly for recreational players. I think that Jean Scott use to play $2 NSUD on point multiplier days at GC. It would be a small edge, but I have no idea at how much FP that got her.
    Wasilla, don't worry about some feedback from some of resident curmudgeons on this board. Your suggestions (and your realistic attitude) are appreciated.

    I had started to play some heavy VP at Boyd downtown casinos a few months before the big Boyd retraction of comps at the end of 2018. Since then, I have been grandfathered into Sapphire including this calendar year. I have only 500 carry over points in 2020 but still retain Sapphire until the end of 2020. I still get Boyd weekend room offers and when my school buddies and I do our periodic visits to downtown, I house a couple of them at a Boyd hotel on my comps. I do like the Boars Head Bar for good beer and 9/6 VP but it takes so long to earn points, I may just play slots to get another 250 points so I can hit the magical 750 level just to keep my Boyd's status on life support. One by-product is 40 tier points on a weekend is good for a free brunch buffet at MSS.

    FAB

  8. #28
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    I was under the impression that this thread was about the Boyd comp system. I guess that the definition of a "true AP" is a matter of opinion. AP stands for advantage player. One can, and many do, AP for small stakes. Basically for free or cheap vacations with small average wins. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Others make a living off it and need to play for higher stakes or bigger edges. Some of the stuff I play elsewhere, draws pros as well, but the DT Boyd stuff seems to be mostly for recreational players. I think that Jean Scott use to play $2 NSUD on point multiplier days at GC. It would be a small edge, but I have no idea at how much FP that got her.
    Jean Scott went broke playing these theoretical edges people like to claim she plowed, and she had to scadaddle on out to Georgia where her children could take care of her and "Brad" after they finally were able to escape their biggest curse.

    Yes, there are "AP's" who play for meager edges, which is why almost every LV vp player who plays regularly describes themselves as an AP. But what gave you the idea that anyone here needed your advice or didn't already know what they're doing? Big whoop you know the in's & outs of the downtown casinos. Nobody really cares about how to make a trip to LV that doesn't result in winning but does result in scoring comps, because every half-savvy gambler already knows they can figure that out on their own. Coupons and scratch cards are for beggars. God's gift to gamblers you are not.

    If you can afford a taxi or Uber to Bootlegger on S. LV Blvd., see if you can figure out how to get involved in what is their true, solid 104.4% advantage play there. You can even do it overnight as I did last night....if your mommy let's you.
    And this is why we can’t have nice things here. Robbo, this new poster gave incredibly useful information to both new and experienced posters but you can’t let it go.

    Are you seriously that jealous or upset about his or her post that you have to denigrate them? Why?

    If you are what you say, which I am not questioning, why did these posts bother you?

    Dan should be happy as hell Wasilla joined and contributed, but right away you get pissed about it.

    Life is way too short to be so angry all the time. And coming from me, that is saying a lot.
    Irrelevant. He's another WoV plant who thinks talking comps and strategy on an obviously depleted Boyd benefits system instead of how to make money, will be good for the poor, incapable masses. And you'd never recognize "angry all the time" if you were working the angles I'm now working on vp. If you prefer Jean Scott-level video poker type play to what AP play is really all about, great!

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by FABismonte View Post
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    I was under the impression that this thread was about the Boyd comp system. I guess that the definition of a "true AP" is a matter of opinion. AP stands for advantage player. One can, and many do, AP for small stakes. Basically for free or cheap vacations with small average wins. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Others make a living off it and need to play for higher stakes or bigger edges. Some of the stuff I play elsewhere, draws pros as well, but the DT Boyd stuff seems to be mostly for recreational players. I think that Jean Scott use to play $2 NSUD on point multiplier days at GC. It would be a small edge, but I have no idea at how much FP that got her.
    Wasilla, don't worry about some feedback from some of resident curmudgeons on this board. Your suggestions (and your realistic attitude) are appreciated.

    I had started to play some heavy VP at Boyd downtown casinos a few months before the big Boyd retraction of comps at the end of 2018. Since then, I have been grandfathered into Sapphire including this calendar year. I have only 500 carry over points in 2020 but still retain Sapphire until the end of 2020. I still get Boyd weekend room offers and when my school buddies and I do our periodic visits to downtown, I house a couple of them at a Boyd hotel on my comps. I do like the Boars Head Bar for good beer and 9/6 VP but it takes so long to earn points, I may just play slots to get another 250 points so I can hit the magical 750 level just to keep my Boyd's status on life support. One by-product is 40 tier points on a weekend is good for a free brunch buffet at MSS.

    FAB
    I'll repeat the Undeniable Truth about what I've said time and again in my columns, my books, on the radio, in podcasts, and on TV: People who play for slot club status are EXACTLY the type people casino managers love to see walk into their front doors. Why? Because these are the people who keep the casino/hotels open. And yes, you've seen these same people continuously be unwitting suckers to the Harrahs/CET system for years, unable to escape the massacre due to their unbelievable addiction to the Total Rewards slot club.

    Here's a flash: all the schmoozing in the world will never create a positive gaming experience at the Boyd collection of dumps.

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by FABismonte View Post
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    I was under the impression that this thread was about the Boyd comp system. I guess that the definition of a "true AP" is a matter of opinion. AP stands for advantage player. One can, and many do, AP for small stakes. Basically for free or cheap vacations with small average wins. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Others make a living off it and need to play for higher stakes or bigger edges. Some of the stuff I play elsewhere, draws pros as well, but the DT Boyd stuff seems to be mostly for recreational players. I think that Jean Scott use to play $2 NSUD on point multiplier days at GC. It would be a small edge, but I have no idea at how much FP that got her.
    Wasilla, don't worry about some feedback from some of resident curmudgeons on this board. Your suggestions (and your realistic attitude) are appreciated.

    I had started to play some heavy VP at Boyd downtown casinos a few months before the big Boyd retraction of comps at the end of 2018. Since then, I have been grandfathered into Sapphire including this calendar year. I have only 500 carry over points in 2020 but still retain Sapphire until the end of 2020. I still get Boyd weekend room offers and when my school buddies and I do our periodic visits to downtown, I house a couple of them at a Boyd hotel on my comps. I do like the Boars Head Bar for good beer and 9/6 VP but it takes so long to earn points, I may just play slots to get another 250 points so I can hit the magical 750 level just to keep my Boyd's status on life support. One by-product is 40 tier points on a weekend is good for a free brunch buffet at MSS.

    FAB
    I'll repeat the Undeniable Truth about what I've said time and again in my columns, my books, on the radio, in podcasts, and on TV: People who play for slot club status are EXACTLY the type people casino managers love to see walk into their front doors. Why? Because these are the people who keep the casino/hotels open. And yes, you've seen these same people continuously be unwitting suckers to the Harrahs/CET system for years, unable to escape the massacre due to their unbelievable addiction to the Total Rewards slot club.

    Here's a flash: all the schmoozing in the world will never create a positive gaming experience at the Boyd collection of dumps.

    Geez, Louise. You do realize this thread was an attempt to correct some of your hyping of Main Street Station, which is a Boyd property?

    So why would you tout that people should play at Main Street Station when it's one of the "Boyd collection of dumps?"

    Sometimes you make Jekyll and Hyde look as consistent as Mr. Rogers with two different sweaters.

  11. #31
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by FABismonte View Post

    Wasilla, don't worry about some feedback from some of resident curmudgeons on this board. Your suggestions (and your realistic attitude) are appreciated.

    I had started to play some heavy VP at Boyd downtown casinos a few months before the big Boyd retraction of comps at the end of 2018. Since then, I have been grandfathered into Sapphire including this calendar year. I have only 500 carry over points in 2020 but still retain Sapphire until the end of 2020. I still get Boyd weekend room offers and when my school buddies and I do our periodic visits to downtown, I house a couple of them at a Boyd hotel on my comps. I do like the Boars Head Bar for good beer and 9/6 VP but it takes so long to earn points, I may just play slots to get another 250 points so I can hit the magical 750 level just to keep my Boyd's status on life support. One by-product is 40 tier points on a weekend is good for a free brunch buffet at MSS.

    FAB
    I'll repeat the Undeniable Truth about what I've said time and again in my columns, my books, on the radio, in podcasts, and on TV: People who play for slot club status are EXACTLY the type people casino managers love to see walk into their front doors. Why? Because these are the people who keep the casino/hotels open. And yes, you've seen these same people continuously be unwitting suckers to the Harrahs/CET system for years, unable to escape the massacre due to their unbelievable addiction to the Total Rewards slot club.

    Here's a flash: all the schmoozing in the world will never create a positive gaming experience at the Boyd collection of dumps.

    Geez, Louise. You do realize this thread was an attempt to correct some of your hyping of Main Street Station, which is a Boyd property?

    So why would you tout that people should play at Main Street Station when it's one of the "Boyd collection of dumps?"

    Sometimes you make Jekyll and Hyde look as consistent as Mr. Rogers with two different sweaters.
    Because you never get it or want to get it.

  12. #32
    Jean and Brad are very well off. They quit playing for a pretty good reason. Brad is an Octagenarian in failing health.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  13. #33
    I've always liked Brad and they're a very nice couple, which I told them each time we met. I do not, however, believe they did anything profitable with their gaming outside of the enormous amount of comps anyone who plays almost every day gets. That to me is not what gaming success is all about. And they should be very thankful for having children willing and able to take care of them as seniors. In that sense, they are indeed very well off.

  14. #34
    So I think that I understand that this dynamic. I actually joined the site because I'm a MC fan and thought I might help him save him a few bucks. I got on this thread because I thought that RS's endorsement of MSS was over the top, while redietz expressed a harsher opinion than I held. To be clear, redietz makes factual arguments. I just have reasons to like Boyd more than he does. I think that it's cool that I can disagree with a successful gambler without things becoming disagreeable.
    I don't understand the RS full throated MSS endorsement , followed by the full throated thrashing of the casino chain, topped with the accusation that I only talk about what everyone knows. I have decided to give this all the consideration that it deserves.
    I value people who can discuss issues based on facts. People can still have different opinions based on preferences.
    I like people like Jean Scott. I've never met her, but have never heard a bad word about her from people who have. When I read her first book I was amazed that such things were possible, then I was doing it myself. She's nice, she's cool, and she really seems to meet all the measures of success that I care about.
    FAB is my favorite poster on the board I post on, and he probably does actually know everything that I'll talk about. I'll try to up my game FAB.
    For those of you who want to dismiss me because I am too low stakes, I would like to plead guilty. I retired a hundred-thousandaire, rather than a millionaire. I considered working in Finance, but I hitched to Alaska instead, took a low paying job in residential treatment for problem kids that allowed me months a year to hike, ski, climb, and kayak the Alaska wilderness. At 40 years old, I realized that this would leave me poor so I took a job teaching in a medium security prison. I was good at it, but I also had 6 months a year to travel the world. I would buy a ticket into a continent and a return 6 months later. It amounted to close to 6 years of international travel before my job became full time in 2010. That is when I started traveling to Vegas. Within a couple years I was going several times a year. I discovered that I could travel to Vegas for free and save more money for retirement. I retired in May of 2018 with a small pension. I would rate myself as a damn good prison teacher, a decent traveler, an above average gambler and ocean kayaker, a average money earner, and a below average skier and climber. Nobody needs to tell me that I'm no Bill Gates, Jean Scott, or mickeycrimm. We all agree with that. Claiming that I think I'm great at anything besides helping people as a prison teacher is a straw man argument.
    Sorry to hijack your thread redietz. It seemed better to define myself than let innuendo do its work. Besides, I think these gambling sites tend to focus too much on what you have instead of how you live.
    I think that Vegas is fun. If you are interested in doing it cheaper, you might like my posts. If your rolling in money or gamble so much that hosts feed you grapes as you recline, then not so much.
    Thanks for the warm welcome here. I admit to being a little star struck. I've done some inadvisable things in my life, but the professional gamblers among you are batshit level crazy.
    Last edited by wasilla; 02-21-2020 at 02:43 AM.

  15. #35
    The comp stuff is interesting. A lot of us don't mind being slightly disadvantaged players who would like to see a return in comps. I somewhat fall in this category. Playing for comps is stupid, but if you are going to pay for overpriced rooms regardless, then those comps can easily pay off.

    I ran 100k in coinin through a VBJ machine and did ok. (positive side of variance). From that I got the 2nd tier at the casino which gets me 2 free days a week. Apparently if you call up more than once, you will often get someone who doesn't check if you already had your room for the week and you can double dip. Anyway, my expected loss was a few hundred after freeplay. The rooms go for $70-$200. Pretty easy to be ahead even when playing -EV and for comps.

    Rob Singer is a moron. People should never take him seriously. He is a pathetic pathological liar who is now trying to grab attention as if he somehow figured out some VP play. The guy is too dumb to understand gambling math from my understanding. No one should take him seriously.

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    So I think that I understand that this dynamic. I actually joined the site because I'm a MC fan and thought I might help him save him a few bucks. I got on this thread because I thought that RS's endorsement of MSS was over the top, while redietz expressed a harsher opinion than I held. To be clear, redietz makes factual arguments. I just have reasons to like Boyd more than he does. I think that it's cool that I can disagree with a successful gambler without things becoming disagreeable.
    I don't understand the RS full throated MSS endorsement , followed by the full throated thrashing of the casino chain, topped with the accusation that I only talk about what everyone knows. I have decided to give this all the consideration that it deserves.
    I value people who can discuss issues based on facts. People can still have different opinions based on preferences.
    I like people like Jean Scott. I've never met her, but have never heard a bad word about her from people who have. When I read her first book I was amazed that such things were possible, then I was doing it myself. She's nice, she's cool, and she really seems to meet all the measures of success that I care about.
    FAB is my favorite poster on the board I post on, and he probably does actually know everything that I'll talk about. I'll try to up my game FAB.
    For those of you who want to dismiss me because I am too low stakes, I would like to plead guilty. I retired a hundred-thousandaire, rather than a millionaire. I considered working in Finance, but I hitched to Alaska instead, took a low paying job in residential treatment for problem kids that allowed me months a year to hike, ski, climb, and kayak the Alaska wilderness. At 40 years old, I realized that this would leave me poor so I took a job teaching in a medium security prison. I was good at it, but I also had 6 months a year to travel the world. I would buy a ticket into a continent and a return 6 months later. It amounted to close to 6 years of international travel before my job became full time in 2010. That is when I started traveling to Vegas. Within a couple years I was going several times a year. I discovered that I could travel to Vegas for free and save more money for retirement. I retired in May of 2018 with a small pension. I would rate myself as a damn good prison teacher, a decent traveler, an above average gambler and ocean kayaker, a average money earner, and a below average skier and climber. Nobody needs to tell me that I'm no Bill Gates, Jean Scott, or mickeycrimm. We all agree with that. Claiming that I think I'm great at anything besides helping people as a prison teacher is a straw man argument.
    Sorry to hijack your thread redietz. It seemed better to define myself than let innuendo do its work. Besides, I think these gambling sites tend to focus too much on what you have instead of how you live.
    I think that Vegas is fun. If you are interested in doing it cheaper, you might like my posts. If your rolling in money or gamble so much that hosts feed you grapes as you recline, then not so much.
    Thanks for the warm welcome here. I admit to being a little star struck. I've done some inadvisable things in my life, but the professional gamblers among you are batshit level crazy.

    Thanks for the bio, Wasilla. Sounds like a good, interesting, and productive life. I had a very good friend who drove cab at Penn State most of the year, but headed to work on the fishing boats in Alaska during the summers, when Penn State was dead. He loved Alaska. Another friend just retired as a SORT team leader in California.

    I am no comp expert, but I try to stay at least semi-informed. I was spending 90-100 days a year in LV (for 25 years or thereabouts) during football seasons. Initially, back in the 80's and early 90's, football betting accrued you serious comps and power of the pen, and it was on the same "coin-in" level as race betting. Both were much closer to machine play comp levels than they are today. I actually had top tier in some programs. Back then, you could get $1 for $125 in sports wagers at some places, like Circus-Circus, and you had power of the pen on top of it. Anyway, the bean counters started figuring out that house edge for sports was marginal, and sports comps started crashing. Today, most places it's maybe $400 or $500 for $1 in comps, and the Wynn wants 20K (in a day) to give you dinner. So early 90's I began looking for ways to stay fed without paying. I had always read the LVA religiously, and then I stumbled across Jean Scott and learned how to play video poker, expressly for the purpose of racking up some meals and rooms.

    Anyway, all info from people like you is greatly appreciated, so thank you.
    Last edited by redietz; 02-21-2020 at 07:51 AM.

  17. #37
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Rob Singer is a moron. People should never take him seriously. He is a pathetic pathological liar who is now trying to grab attention as if he somehow figured out some VP play. The guy is too dumb to understand gambling math from my understanding. No one should take him seriously.
    I am going to disagree here. The person posting as Rob Singer is not a moron. He is fairly intelligent and he understands the mathematics of gambling. AND he understands that his claims go against the math. The problem is Rob is a losing degenerate gambler.

    Inspired by Dancer and others, Rob tried to be a video poker advantage player. He tried for 6 years and he failed, by his own admission, losing money every year. This is one of the few things he has been honest about. Now if you understand the math, which Rob does and you are properly bankrolled, which Rob claims to have been, then there is only one thing that stops you from succeeding. The lack of discipline necessary to be a successful AP. It is pretty hard for a life long degenerate gambler type player to all of the sudden stop chasing losses, and over-playing -EV situations and turn 180 degrees and succeed at advantage play. Rob like most degenerate gambler types was unable to make that transition and he failed.

    Now because Rob failed, when he wanted so desperately to succeed like Dancer and others, two things happened. 1.) he convinced himself that all successful APs that do have the discipline necessary to succeed were lying. He became very bitter and hateful to anyone who has had success where he has failed. 2.) the second thing that occurred is that this is when Rob started making up stuff, claims of success based on non-mathematical principals and proven principals that don't work, like progression wagering and "special plays". Concepts that just don't work!

    Rob then spent 15 years pushing this alternative reality garbage trolling real APs on various forums, and even self publishing a couple books. Along the way EVERY legitimate gambling math person has debunked Singer and told him what he is claiming is impossible. His retort to that is name calling and personal attacks.

    After 15 years of this, down to where no one and I mean no one (except Slingshot) believed Rob's claims, he pivoted and stole the well known Nestor claim (double up bug) for his own, claiming he found the double up bug, played it for 5 years prior to Nestor and made millions. That created a little relevance as there was much discussion for a few months, but in the end, as my poll showed, almost no one believed that preposterous claim either.

    And now Rob has pivoted yet again, and is claiming to be pursuing some sort of play. He is going to tell you yet again, how he has come up with something that no one else has been able to find. I for one can't wait to hear the details of this latest fantasy.

    But really, the whole thing, Rob's 15 year existence on these forums, all the trolling, all the hate, name calling and bitterness, all the impossible claims is about one thing: Rob didn't have the discipline to succeed as an advantage player.

  18. #38
    Kewl I will admit here that I was possibly wrong. Maybe Singer isn't a moron. Rather just a loser.

    I mean he writes pretty decently. He might have even spent some time in college at some point.

    Your description of him makes perfect sense to me though. I feel like I understand Rob.

  19. #39
    Thank you for the information that it takes $109 of coin in at the better video poker games at Boyd just to earn one tier credit. This means I need $109 of coin in to get a free breakfast or lunch buffet on certain promotion days. The buffet has a price of about $8-11 and now I see it's not worth it.

    Another problem with Boyd is that I found table game action is not added to your account sometimes for days, weeks or even months.

    I am not exaggerating when I say months.

    I have been told that it is not uncommon for a table game player to have the lowest level card for months then suddenly get a notification that they're now Onyx which is the second highest level after Titanium.

  20. #40
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    So I think that I understand that this dynamic. I actually joined the site because I'm a MC fan and thought I might help him save him a few bucks. I got on this thread because I thought that RS's endorsement of MSS was over the top, while redietz expressed a harsher opinion than I held. To be clear, redietz makes factual arguments. I just have reasons to like Boyd more than he does. I think that it's cool that I can disagree with a successful gambler without things becoming disagreeable.
    I don't understand the RS full throated MSS endorsement , followed by the full throated thrashing of the casino chain, topped with the accusation that I only talk about what everyone knows. I have decided to give this all the consideration that it deserves.
    I value people who can discuss issues based on facts. People can still have different opinions based on preferences.
    I like people like Jean Scott. I've never met her, but have never heard a bad word about her from people who have. When I read her first book I was amazed that such things were possible, then I was doing it myself. She's nice, she's cool, and she really seems to meet all the measures of success that I care about.
    FAB is my favorite poster on the board I post on, and he probably does actually know everything that I'll talk about. I'll try to up my game FAB.
    For those of you who want to dismiss me because I am too low stakes, I would like to plead guilty. I retired a hundred-thousandaire, rather than a millionaire. I considered working in Finance, but I hitched to Alaska instead, took a low paying job in residential treatment for problem kids that allowed me months a year to hike, ski, climb, and kayak the Alaska wilderness. At 40 years old, I realized that this would leave me poor so I took a job teaching in a medium security prison. I was good at it, but I also had 6 months a year to travel the world. I would buy a ticket into a continent and a return 6 months later. It amounted to close to 6 years of international travel before my job became full time in 2010. That is when I started traveling to Vegas. Within a couple years I was going several times a year. I discovered that I could travel to Vegas for free and save more money for retirement. I retired in May of 2018 with a small pension. I would rate myself as a damn good prison teacher, a decent traveler, an above average gambler and ocean kayaker, a average money earner, and a below average skier and climber. Nobody needs to tell me that I'm no Bill Gates, Jean Scott, or mickeycrimm. We all agree with that. Claiming that I think I'm great at anything besides helping people as a prison teacher is a straw man argument.
    Sorry to hijack your thread redietz. It seemed better to define myself than let innuendo do its work. Besides, I think these gambling sites tend to focus too much on what you have instead of how you live.
    I think that Vegas is fun. If you are interested in doing it cheaper, you might like my posts. If your rolling in money or gamble so much that hosts feed you grapes as you recline, then not so much.
    Thanks for the warm welcome here. I admit to being a little star struck. I've done some inadvisable things in my life, but the professional gamblers among you are batshit level crazy.
    If this post didn't begin by making a left turn off a cliff, it would make some sense as a B-rated soap opera. And you took that turn because the dopey redietz led you to it.

    Mickey asked about downtown/I brought up what I heard about MSS inside that jungle. Nowhere did I say anything about Boyd overall.

    If you want to write effectively one must be able to read effectively.

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