video poker machines not random?

[Alan Mendelson]

Then if I misread what Rob wrote he gets:

$50k / 12 = about $4,000 per month
Plus
$5k to $10k in monthly withdrawals.

That gives $9,000 to $14,000 per month, which is about $108,000 to $168,000 a year.

[arcimede$]

Then if I misread what Rob wrote he gets:

$50k / 12 = about $4,000 per month
Plus
$5k to $10k in monthly withdrawals.

That gives $9,000 to $14,000 per month, which is about $108,000 to $168,000 a year.

Both of them get the $50K/ year along with the ~$90K withdrawn from their savings. So, that would be $190K / year. One wonders why they are still living in a trailer park.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob Singer please clarify what you mean by 50K in monthly pension and social security benefits.

[mickeycrimm]

"Money Blast" is probably best known as a mining-themed video slot by Konami, but it sounds like Riviera used the title for a specialized slot machine intended for promotional giveaways. Here's a mention of 58th anniversary promotions:

http://www.vegas24seven.com/riviera-...-during-april/

Particular outcomes at table games earned free spins on the Money Blast machine. Prizes included "an iPhone 5, cash and tickets to the Riviera Comedy Club."

The articles written about this are misleading. It was not a true slot machine where money was being wagered. It was a promotional giveaway which is entirely different. And my guess is the machine involved was non-random. I don't know what the laws governing promotions are but I know they are different than gambling regulations. It would call for some research.

There is one thing I know. Through your play, if you are invited to a free slot tournament and win, say $5000, you won' be given a W2-G. You will get a 1099. You will be responsible for taxes on the entire amount. You can't write your losses off against a 1099. The reason is because it is considered a gift.

In 1997 I got involved in a dispute over a poker promotion. I called Gaming. Whoever I talked to told me they don't get involved in promotions. But I don't think that can be entirely true. In 2002 Gaming fined the Venetian $1,000,000 and the executives involved lost their jobs over a rigged drawing. So Gaming does get involved to a certain extent.

[Alan Mendelson]

Mickey read the IRS instructions. You can offset 1099 wins with losses.

[RS__]

Mickey read the IRS instructions. You can offset 1099 wins with losses.

Huh??

EDIT: Nevermind, I think there was supposed to be a comma after "Mickey".



As far as machines being gaffed or whatever y'all are hallucinating about....it's not like a slot attendant can open up the machine, flip a switch, and all of a sudden it's gaffed. Yes, machines in the past have been gaffed (american coin with the bars and no RF's). And there probably exist some today. But by and large, casinos do not gaff their slots or VP machines to cheat the players. The casino would need an "inside man" from the game manufacturers to manufacture the chip. Sure, you can listen to Rob Stringer about his crazy theories....but when's the last time he's been right about anything gambling related? (Hint: Never)

[mickeycrimm]

Mickey read the IRS instructions. You can offset 1099 wins with losses.

My mistake. I did some googling. But there are so many complicated restrictions that I think it would be damn near impossible for a recreational player to write off losses against a 1099.

I had a friend down in Laughlin, a part-time AP, who was invited to a free-roll slot tournament, won it for $10,000, then got all pissed off when they 1099'd him. He talked until he was blue in the face trying to get them to change it to a W-2G. But to no avail. They told him it was a gift and therefore called for a 1099.

[Alan Mendelson]

I have won hourly drawings at various poker casinos in LA usually for $1,000 each drawing. It's a 1099. Losses can be used to offset this 1099s. It's a gambling contest win and not a gift. Glad we got that straight Mickey.

[dannyj]

So is the threshold $1000 or more to get 1099'd instead of a W-2G'? I once won $400 in free play for placing something like 10th in a slot tournament. If I recall only the top three received actual cash with the winner getting $2500.

[mickeycrimm]

I have won hourly drawings at various poker casinos in LA usually for $1,000 each drawing. It's a 1099. Losses can be used to offset this 1099s. It's a gambling contest win and not a gift. Glad we got that straight Mickey.

Sorry, Alan. We don't have anything straight yet.

[Alan Mendelson]

A 1099 can be issued for one dollar if the payor wants to deduct it.

[Alan Mendelson]

I have won hourly drawings at various poker casinos in LA usually for $1,000 each drawing. It's a 1099. Losses can be used to offset this 1099s. It's a gambling contest win and not a gift. Glad we got that straight Mickey.

Sorry, Alan. We don't have anything straight yet.

If you won't read the IRS rules about 1099s and deducting gambling losses we will never agree.

You can deduct losses against a 1099.

End of discussion.

[dannyj]

A 1099 can be issued for one dollar if the payor wants to deduct it.

Alan- I guess that is what I was asking earlier about a threshold. When I won $400 in free play competing in a slot tournament, there were no strings attached, meaning no 1099, they just gave me the vouchers. Now the winner got $2500 in cash, so I'm thinking he may have gotten 1099'd. So, $1200 and above for jackpots gets you a W-2G, but when one wins a drawing or contest the threshold for getting a 1099 is subjective.

[bocce ball]

Alan- I guess that is what I was asking earlier about a threshold.

The threshold for a 1099 is usually $600, cumulative for the year. If you read the rules for casino drawings, there's usually a $600 mention. Here's one from Boyd:

http://static.boydgaming.net/boydgam...OTI--FINAL.pdf

Line 16: "Winners with cumulative winnings of $600 or more will receive a 1099 tax form."

But many of the tax regulations are written ambiguously, so there not always a definitive answer.

Prizes awarded in free play are usually treated by the casino as not reportable, regardless of amount.

[dannyj]

Thanks bocce. That explains why in the slot tournament we played in the top three were payed in cash instead of free play, which if I recall was $1000 up to $2500 for the winner. They more than likely would have been 1099'd.

[regnis]

The 1099 Misc for a gambling related win is a constant problem. The IRS doesn't know that it is a gambling win. I have had success classifying it as part of my overall gambling win on the "other income" line on page one. I list the gambling and separately list the 1099 but designate it as gambling. Then deduct the losses on Schedule A. If this is your only gambling win, then you still can offset it on Schedule A.

The horse racing websites issue 1099's for tournament winnings so I have researched this pretty extensively.

[mickeycrimm]

Sometimes I can just be so forgetful. I just remembered I have Jean Scott's Tax Help For Gamblers in my Kindle Library. Here's a quote from Jean:

"....often a casino gives 1099s for major gifts, e.g, cars....and the IRS has ruled that the fair-market value of these has to be included in gambling income, but can be offset by gambling losses."

Case closed. You were right and I was wrong, Alan. Are you happy now?

[mickeycrimm]

I thought I would put this link up here just so we also get to read another long-wided diatribe about it form Mr. Rob Singer.

https://www.lasvegasadviser.com/gamb...-who-cares.htm

[Rob.Singer]

Then if I misread what Rob wrote he gets:

$50k / 12 = about $4,000 per month
Plus
$5k to $10k in monthly withdrawals.

That gives $9,000 to $14,000 per month, which is about $108,000 to $168,000 a year.

I knew this would cause the usual panic attack amongst the masses, with all kinds of iterations assumed. And in front of a group where a 6-figure income--via a job OR retirement--creates gasps, I may pop open a bottle of champagne and read all the silly comments again!

I believe Alan's on the right track. It's about $50k/year EACH. (arci scored high on this one too, but the dumb comment he included only means he still feels the sting of being responsible for half his retirement being six feet under....)

Yes Alan, there's people with higher SS and higher pension pymts, than we get--even combined. That's why we both saved for this part of our life, and it's apparent few here do. For instance: can you imagine what mickey's "retirement portfolio" looks like? LMAO! And I've STILL got a big belly-laugh going on about THAT one!! And how about these brutes from WoV who post here! You HAVE to expect they pray that the grim reaper shows up early for them.

[Ozzy]

I heard that JERRY LOGAN, was one of those BRUTES, that post here from WOV.