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Thread: Some Ideas

  1. #1
    A few days old, but the best short summary I've seen recently.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/opini...ion/index.html


    John Oliver, the comedian, does a fine job of explaining the Fox/Trump synergy in his last HBO show. Google that one.


    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/19/media...-piers-morgan/

    Piers Morgan, a reasonable and usually politically incorrect guy (which I do appreciate), gave his opinion above.


    Stay safe. There is a long road ahead.

  2. #2
    Like Piers, I to have watched the White House press briefings in "mounting horror." But not at Trump. To say the press has been "self-aggrandizing, overly defensive, politically partisan...." is an understatement. The press has been absolutely horrible. They are political hacks first, Americans second. They don't give a damn about coronavirus, they just want the President brought down.

    Piers is just criticizing the President's style. That's the easiest thing in the world to do. Did Piers give any solutions to the problem? No, of course not.

    The biggest thing Piers is doing is GRABBING HEADLINES, SEEKING ATTENTION.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Stay safe. There is a long road ahead.
    Not for people under 50.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  4. #4
    Redietz will use "2nd and 3rd waves" for the next 18 months to scare the hell out of people.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  5. #5
    Redietz just can't be taken seriously. He's the guy who joined WoV last year and then "self suspended" himself a month later.

    After the WoV owners made sweeping changes to the forum, redietz then took credit for the changes and claimed that the owners changed things because they got scared after his self suspension lol! You can't make this stuff up folks.

    Redietz reminds me of Rick Moranis at the end of Ghostbusters when he thought he was the one responsible for saving everyone LOL!

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Kaboom View Post
    Redietz reminds me of Rick Moranis

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    A few days old, but the best short summary I've seen recently.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/opini...ion/index.html


    John Oliver, the comedian, does a fine job of explaining the Fox/Trump synergy in his last HBO show. Google that one.


    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/19/media...-piers-morgan/

    Piers Morgan, a reasonable and usually politically incorrect guy (which I do appreciate), gave his opinion above.


    Stay safe. There is a long road ahead.

    Sad to see what I thought was a normal person lose it like you did.

    You have to know deep down you have a better chance of hitting a 7 team parlay at 90-1 that dying from Coronavirus overall ONCE you have it. How about hitting a 20 team parlay if you are not a high risk person with a Pre existing condition.

    So what is your point in warning people everyday? Especially person that think you are either mentally challenged or just a fucking moron like Tasha. Sad what has happened to you, but I guess others thought you were strange all along.

    I refuse to believe you are an idiot so it has to come back to you pushing it as a political move to spread your liberal agenda. No other reason makes any sense.

  8. #8
    What gets me is those that don't watch Fox News think everyone on the network moves in lockstep. But that is not true. Opinions vary even among the Prime Time anchors. Tucker Carlson thought the early models on coronavirus were accurate until the actual stats proved him wrong. Fox News has a very impressive lineup of liberal debaters and commentators. So you get opinions from both sides of the issues.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What gets me is those that don't watch Fox News think everyone on the network moves in lockstep. But that is not true. Opinions vary even among the Prime Time anchors. Tucker Carlson thought the early models on coronavirus were accurate until the actual stats proved him wrong. Fox News has a very impressive lineup of liberal debaters and commentators. So you get opinions from both sides of the issues.
    I don't watch a lot of Fox News. I'm interested in which liberal commentators they have. Can you offer any names?

    I do watch MSNBC. Everybody already knows about Morning Joe. I gather that he has a cross-section of viewers and guests, but I generally don't start watching TV until the afternoon and can't speak to it. My favorite hour is Nichole Wallace. She worked in the Bush White House and worked with Sarah Palin during her Vice Presidential bid. Guests include Chris Christie and Michael Steele (former House Speaker spokesman}. Frequent contributors include Steve Schmitt (ran McCain election) and Michael Steele (former GOP chairman).
    She is no longer an active Republican and many of her guests and contributors have withdrawn from the Republican party since Trump's election, so you shouldn't expect a pro-Trump hour, but they aren't a bunch of lefties.

  10. #10
    Tucker Carlson has made a living debating liberals going back 30 years on CNN. He runs thru a battery of liberals on practically every show. More liberals on FNC:

    Juan Williams
    Geraldo Rivera
    Alan Colmes (deceased)
    Donna Brazile (Yes, THE Donna Brazile)
    Dennis Kucinich (Yes, THE Dennis Kucinich
    Jessica Tarlov
    Chris Wallace (Mike Wallace's son)
    Bob Beckel (was fired)
    Lanny Davis
    Liz Chadderdon

    To name a few
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What gets me is those that don't watch Fox News think everyone on the network moves in lockstep. But that is not true. Opinions vary even among the Prime Time anchors. Tucker Carlson thought the early models on coronavirus were accurate until the actual stats proved him wrong. Fox News has a very impressive lineup of liberal debaters and commentators. So you get opinions from both sides of the issues.
    I miss the Fox news line up from a few years back. I am moderate, lean left compared to most people on here, but used to love O’reilly because although he was way more to the right of me I thought he did a good job arguing for his case and tried to go out of his way to be fair to the other side.

    Also miss the old days of Hannity and Combs. I thought it made it a better show to have a liberal to balance out Hannity’s strong conservative beliefs whereas now, its like watching the mirror of CNN where all CNN does is bash Trump, he does the same on the other side.

    One thing I don’t like about Tucker (and someone posted about it the other day) he seems to only for the most part bring on liberals who are complete idiots that are easy to pick apart.

    If you have a strong case bring on a strong opponent and have a solid debate the way Orielly used to do or Hannity used to do with Combs. What I think some conservatives sometimes miss is that even a large amount of liberals and Democrats can’t stand the uber-left SJW, PC , 93 different gender & sexual orientation classifications, total idiots and when they watch a host that constantly attacks those folks, its like, yes everyone agrees those people are idiots just like skin head Nazis on the far right are idiots so lets have real debates.

    Even center left I used to primarily just watch Fox news as my main cable news because I liked getting good debate on both sides, but now I feel like its more just like CNN that always bashes Trump but vice versa for dems. And I guess Im referring to the prime time hours with the opinion anchors.

    I do feel outside of prime time many of them do a good job. I do miss the lineup from years back though it seemed to be a good fit for people like me that are moderate and want to hear good cases for both sides of issues.

    What’s hard to understand also is that in the media, on this forum, and everywhere else, everybody talks about conservatives and liberals when most people in the country are actually moderates.

    Now i just try to keep an open mind, get my news from a lot of sources, and fact check even things that I agree with.

  12. #12
    Liberal Policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve people's problems.

    Conservative Policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.


    This general description should make any American Conservative.
    I can't believe Americans want the Government to control them and solve their problems for them.
    The whole point of America is to get away from Tyranny and be Free from Government Meddling in individual lives.
    It is this basic idea that a Man's house is his Castle.
    Whatever though, as I said before, Liberalism has invaded so deep into America that their Ideology has won for the time being.
    Most likely, the only solution will be an actual war between the two groups.

    Let's just look at the difference of opinions...

    DEATH PENALTY

    Liberals are against it and claim it should be abolished.

    Conservatives believe in executing a murderer for taking an innocent life.

    To be honest it wasn't long ago we would hang people for far less crimes.

    ECONOMY

    Liberals believe that we should regulate the Market and the Government should control it.

    Conservatives believe in a Free Market System.
    They believe the competition gives us the most growth and better standard for living
    They believe the more the Government Regulates the worse it is for everyone in the long run.

    GUN CONTROL

    Liberals think that individuals should not own guns.
    They believe that Guns Kill People and Guns Kill Children.
    If you want a Gun you have to belong to your State Militia.


    Conservatives believe that the 2nd Amendment gives the individual the right to keep and bear arms.
    They believe that gun ownership actually decreases the crime rate.

    To Be Continued...

    http://wp.lps.org/tnettle/files/2013...nservative.pdf
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by monet; 04-25-2020 at 01:04 AM.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Liberal Policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve people's problems.

    Conservative Policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.


    This general description should make any American Conservative.
    I can't believe Americans want the Government to control them and solve their problems for them.
    The whole point of America is to get away from Tyranny and be Free from Government Meddling in individual lives.
    It is this basic idea that a Man's house is his Castle.
    Whatever though, as I said before, Liberalism has invaded so deep into America that their Ideology has won for the time being.
    Most likely, the only solution will be an actual war between the two groups.

    Let's just look at the difference of opinions...

    DEATH PENALTY

    Liberals are against it and claim it should be abolished.

    Conservatives believe in executing a murderer for taking an innocent life.

    To be honest it wasn't long ago we would hang people for far less crimes.

    ECONOMY

    Liberals believe that we should regulate the Market and the Government should control it.

    Conservatives believe in a Free Market System.
    They believe the competition gives us the most growth and better standard for living
    They believe the more the Government Regulates the worse it is for everyone in the long run.

    GUN CONTROL

    Liberals think that individuals should not own guns.
    They believe that Guns Kill People and Guns Kill Children.
    If you want a Gun you have to belong to your State Militia.


    Conservatives believe that the 2nd Amendment gives the individual the right to keep and bear arms.
    They believe that gun ownership actually decreases the crime rate.

    To Be Continued...

    http://wp.lps.org/tnettle/files/2013...nservative.pdf

    These are not monolithic groups. I have several friends that consider themselves liberals and are registered Democrats and to a person every single one of them is Pro death penalty. (They are all pro-choice on abortion though)

    Many of them also own guns and none that I know want take away guns. Some of them want to see more government action like better background checks to stop mass shootings, but many of them are suspicious of the government taking them away also once their foot is in the door.

    I have a relative that is so liberal she voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and supported Bernie this year. She is Pro-death penalty and owns 3 guns, Her main motivation when she votes is she hates Wall Street to the core.

    On government meddling I see many liberals against things like the patriot act and the NSA spying on US citizens while ignoring warnings of Middle Eastern men learning to fly planes and not want to know how to land, and Russia warning US in advance on Boston Bombers and Gov ignores while spending billions to spy on us.

    On regulation I think there can be a lot of middle ground. I think many liberals would agree there is too much bureaucracy and red tape, not even a liberal wants to waste his tax money for a bureaucrat that does nothing that benefits society while collecting great pay, benefits and a cushy pensions.

    I believe that many conservatives would also agree that if we had complete unfettered capitalism all of us “little people” would eventually get f#$&ed by big banking, corporations and robber barons.

    Look how Chase helped Ruth Cris and other big corporations to take multimillion dollar loans from the relief fund while Chase only funded 6% of the smaller business loans before funds ran out. Is Chase et al. going to do the right things when there is lax regulation?


    I think the real issue is labels are too broad since people have many different opinions and very few people on the right or left follow their parties in lock step. But all the partisan bickering keeps us divided so we never have substantive debates on real issues and while everyone bickers, government comes in and fucks us with taxes, regulation, overpaid bureaucrats that make our lives miserable and then retire on huge pensions funded by deficits while corporations come in a d fuck us by buying off both the Democratic and Republican politicians so they can do things like get the language in the relief bill changed at the last minute to raid millions of dollars so that small business thst actually need the money get left twisting in the wind.

    My hope is that at some point Americans can drop the labels, unite, push the things we will never agree on like abortion & and which restroom a tranny uses off to the side and focus on electing politicians that can curb government tyranny AND stop the robber barons from screwing us.

    Long rant. I miss casinos!
    Last edited by DGenBen; 04-25-2020 at 01:57 AM.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Liberal Policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve people's problems.

    Conservative Policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.


    This general description should make any American Conservative.
    I can't believe Americans want the Government to control them and solve their problems for them.
    The whole point of America is to get away from Tyranny and be Free from Government Meddling in individual lives.
    It is this basic idea that a Man's house is his Castle.
    Whatever though, as I said before, Liberalism has invaded so deep into America that their Ideology has won for the time being.
    Most likely, the only solution will be an actual war between the two groups.

    Let's just look at the difference of opinions...

    DEATH PENALTY

    Liberals are against it and claim it should be abolished.

    Conservatives believe in executing a murderer for taking an innocent life.

    To be honest it wasn't long ago we would hang people for far less crimes.

    ECONOMY

    Liberals believe that we should regulate the Market and the Government should control it.

    Conservatives believe in a Free Market System.
    They believe the competition gives us the most growth and better standard for living
    They believe the more the Government Regulates the worse it is for everyone in the long run.

    GUN CONTROL

    Liberals think that individuals should not own guns.
    They believe that Guns Kill People and Guns Kill Children.
    If you want a Gun you have to belong to your State Militia.


    Conservatives believe that the 2nd Amendment gives the individual the right to keep and bear arms.
    They believe that gun ownership actually decreases the crime rate.

    To Be Continued...

    http://wp.lps.org/tnettle/files/2013...nservative.pdf

    These are not monolithic groups. I have several friends that consider themselves liberals and are registered Democrats and to a person every single one of them is Pro death penalty. (They are all pro-choice on abortion though)

    Many of them also own guns and none that I know want take away guns. Some of them want to see more government action like better background checks to stop mass shootings, but many of them are suspicious of the government taking them away also once their foot is in the door.

    I have a relative that is so liberal she voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and supported Bernie this year. She is Pro-death penalty and owns 3 guns, Her main motivation when she votes is she hates Wall Street to the core.

    On government meddling I see many liberals against things like the patriot act and the NSA spying on US citizens while ignoring warnings of Middle Eastern men learning to fly planes and not want to know how to land, and Russia warning US in advance on Boston Bombers and Gov ignores while spending billions to spy on us.

    On regulation I think there can be a lot of middle ground. I think many liberals would agree there is too much bureaucracy and red tape, not even a liberal wants to waste his tax money for a bureaucrat that does nothing that benefits society while collecting great pay, benefits and a cushy pensions.

    I believe that many conservatives would also agree that if we had complete unfettered capitalism all of us “little people” would eventually get f#$&ed by big banking, corporations and robber barons.

    Look how Chase helped Ruth Cris and other big corporations to take multimillion dollar loans from the relief fund while Chase only funded 6% of the smaller business loans before funds ran out. Is Chase et al. going to do the right things when there is lax regulation?


    I think the real issue is labels are too broad since people have many different opinions and very few people on the right or left follow their parties in lock step. But all the partisan bickering keeps us divided so we never have substantive debates on real issues and while everyone bickers, government comes in and fucks us with taxes, regulation, overpaid bureaucrats that make our lives miserable and then retire on huge pensions funded by deficits while corporations come in a d fuck us by buying off both the Democratic and Republican politicians so they can do things like get the language in the relief bill changed at the last minute to raid millions of dollars so that small business thst actually need the money get left twisting in the wind.

    My hope is that at some point Americans can drop the labels, unite, push the things we will never agree on like abortion & and which restroom a tranny uses off to the side and focus on electing politicians that can curb government tyranny AND stop the robber barons from screwing us.

    Long rant. I miss casinos!
    I was going to ask Monet if he actually knows any progressives. Then I scroll down and see that you do. I think you made an excellent post here. I and my left leaning friends actually bear some resemblance to what you describe.

  15. #15
    That post sounded more Right or Republican than you might think.

    We didn't even get into all the issues like Same Sex Marriage, Taxes, Welfare, War on Terror, Religion, Immigration, Health Care and the Environment.

    If so called Liberals or Democrats really understood what their fundamental ideals are, I don't believe many of them would be Liberal.
    Most of them jump on some bandwagon to impress the group they are hanging out with.
    They think Gays should have more rights so they think they are Liberal because its cool at the time.
    It doesn't work out so well in the real world when bills start rolling in.
    Of course, now that you all shut the economy down, it doesn't really matter, does it?

    Liberals want Long Term Welfare and Conservatives want Short Term Welfare.

    Conservatives believe that we can not cannot peacefully co-exist with Militant Islamist Ideals in the Western World.

    Liberals believe in Higher Taxes and Larger Government which they believe creates more Jobs and Welfare Programs for the Poor.

    Conservatives believe in smaller government and lower taxes.
    The lower taxes create an incentive to work, save, invest and engage in entrepreneurial endeavors.
    They believe that money is best spent by those who earn it.

    Liberals believe in Same Sex Marriage and Conservatives are completely against this idea.
    (Let's not even get into it as this idea/law has completely destroyed American Families or Values)

    Liberals want separation of Church and State.
    They want all symbols from public and government spaces removed.
    Last edited by monet; 04-25-2020 at 04:20 AM.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    If so called Liberals or Democrats really understood what their fundamental ideals are, I don't believe many of them would be Liberal.
    Most of them jump on some bandwagon to impress the group they are hanging out with.
    monet, I agree with your first sentence, but not so much your second one. I think most people who vote Democrat truly don't understand the fundamental ideals of the two parties. They are not trying to jump on any bandwagon. These people think they are enlightened, but they are not educated enough about the two parties to know how to vote. They spend too much time watching the news and political shows, so they end up confused.

    What these people should do is turn OFF the tv and read some books on how and why our country formed, the ideals of our country, what our constitution is, why our forefathers feared government (but also understood you needed it to protect our country and individual freedom), why we have the Supreme Court, etc.

    The reason I say this is because I was pretty far left when I was in college, to where I gave speeches against Reagan on Iran Contra, and his support of guerillas in Central America. At that time, I was a supporter of the Sandinistas who overthrew Somazo in Nicaragua. I probably know more about Central American politics than anybody should. Since my left-wing brother was down there for 12 years supporting the left, I visited Nicaragua, El Salvador and Honduras a couple times, and even spent time with the guerillas in El Salvador. I'm glad I made it out of that one alive. Those are beautiful countries, but I saw a lot of war, refugees, and bad things during that time. It was sad! At that time, I had a very very confused view of America. I thought it was the evil in the world.

    But I've always been willing to learn. Since I have two highly educated brothers who are on opposite ends of the spectrum, I've read a lot of books from the left (which one brother gave me - they were right out of redietz's library), and a lot of books from the right (which my other brother gave me). These books were more on the history of our country, how it formed, it's ideals, etc.

    I remember when everything clicked. It was then when I understood why there can be NO real common ground between the two sides, since one believes in freedom and individual rights a government cannot trample on (it's called our Constitution and Bill of Rights), and the other side believes in giving up their freedom to our government for what they think is more security (it's called socialism and its ideals appeal to the naive).

    As I'm sure you know, everything shifted in our country during FDR's reign with "The New Deal", which is given a positive spin by our liberal historians today. Many people don't realize that "The New Deal" was voted unconstitutional by our Supreme Court at that time. Roosevelt eventually stacked the Supreme Court and got it through, and our country has slowly drifted more left every year, with a couple corrections here and there.

    It's interesting how our forefathers understood what would happen without a Constitution. The knew the masses would eventually use the government to take money from the wealthy (basically class warfare) which is one of the basic plays in the Democrat playbook....they like to pit the poor against the wealthy, to concentrate power among the government elites. This is why our forefathers had to protect the people from themselves. They wanted to make sure government was not something a group of people used against a class of people they didn't like, which is how the Democrats think.

    Anyway, our country is so far to the left now there isn't much hope. There was some hope with Reagan, but then there has been a long march to the left again, with Slick Willy (Bill Clinton) caving on a couple minor social issues, which had the guillible public thinking the Democrat party was starting to listen to the middle class, and not be a party of kooks, misfits, freeloaders, government elites, etc.

    The Supreme Court is our only hope. This is one of the main reason religious conservatives like Trump. Trump has done a good job in this area, keeping his word on nominating conservative judges, who still believe in the constitution, and protecting our individual rights. Who knows how long that will last? Trump will probably win one more election, but then I think we'll return to our long march to the left and socialism, and eventually total government control of our lives.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Liberal Policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve people's problems.

    Conservative Policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.


    This general description should make any American Conservative.
    I can't believe Americans want the Government to control them and solve their problems for them.
    The whole point of America is to get away from Tyranny and be Free from Government Meddling in individual lives.
    It is this basic idea that a Man's house is his Castle.
    Whatever though, as I said before, Liberalism has invaded so deep into America that their Ideology has won for the time being.
    Most likely, the only solution will be an actual war between the two groups.

    Let's just look at the difference of opinions...

    DEATH PENALTY

    Liberals are against it and claim it should be abolished.

    Conservatives believe in executing a murderer for taking an innocent life.

    To be honest it wasn't long ago we would hang people for far less crimes.

    ECONOMY

    Liberals believe that we should regulate the Market and the Government should control it.

    Conservatives believe in a Free Market System.
    They believe the competition gives us the most growth and better standard for living
    They believe the more the Government Regulates the worse it is for everyone in the long run.

    GUN CONTROL

    Liberals think that individuals should not own guns.
    They believe that Guns Kill People and Guns Kill Children.
    If you want a Gun you have to belong to your State Militia.


    Conservatives believe that the 2nd Amendment gives the individual the right to keep and bear arms.
    They believe that gun ownership actually decreases the crime rate.

    To Be Continued...

    http://wp.lps.org/tnettle/files/2013...nservative.pdf

    These are not monolithic groups. I have several friends that consider themselves liberals and are registered Democrats and to a person every single one of them is Pro death penalty. (They are all pro-choice on abortion though)

    Many of them also own guns and none that I know want take away guns. Some of them want to see more government action like better background checks to stop mass shootings, but many of them are suspicious of the government taking them away also once their foot is in the door.

    I have a relative that is so liberal she voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and supported Bernie this year. She is Pro-death penalty and owns 3 guns, Her main motivation when she votes is she hates Wall Street to the core.

    On government meddling I see many liberals against things like the patriot act and the NSA spying on US citizens while ignoring warnings of Middle Eastern men learning to fly planes and not want to know how to land, and Russia warning US in advance on Boston Bombers and Gov ignores while spending billions to spy on us.

    On regulation I think there can be a lot of middle ground. I think many liberals would agree there is too much bureaucracy and red tape, not even a liberal wants to waste his tax money for a bureaucrat that does nothing that benefits society while collecting great pay, benefits and a cushy pensions.

    I believe that many conservatives would also agree that if we had complete unfettered capitalism all of us “little people” would eventually get f#$&ed by big banking, corporations and robber barons.

    Look how Chase helped Ruth Cris and other big corporations to take multimillion dollar loans from the relief fund while Chase only funded 6% of the smaller business loans before funds ran out. Is Chase et al. going to do the right things when there is lax regulation?


    I think the real issue is labels are too broad since people have many different opinions and very few people on the right or left follow their parties in lock step. But all the partisan bickering keeps us divided so we never have substantive debates on real issues and while everyone bickers, government comes in and fucks us with taxes, regulation, overpaid bureaucrats that make our lives miserable and then retire on huge pensions funded by deficits while corporations come in a d fuck us by buying off both the Democratic and Republican politicians so they can do things like get the language in the relief bill changed at the last minute to raid millions of dollars so that small business thst actually need the money get left twisting in the wind.

    My hope is that at some point Americans can drop the labels, unite, push the things we will never agree on like abortion & and which restroom a tranny uses off to the side and focus on electing politicians that can curb government tyranny AND stop the robber barons from screwing us.

    Long rant. I miss casinos!
    Good post DGenBen
    I think moderates like you and your examples are farther right than you want to admit. The democrat party is speeding away from you faster to the left. People need to wake up to this encroachment and say no more. Where you stand now, in 20 years or less you will be called alt right.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by wasilla View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    What gets me is those that don't watch Fox News think everyone on the network moves in lockstep. But that is not true. Opinions vary even among the Prime Time anchors. Tucker Carlson thought the early models on coronavirus were accurate until the actual stats proved him wrong. Fox News has a very impressive lineup of liberal debaters and commentators. So you get opinions from both sides of the issues.
    I don't watch a lot of Fox News. I'm interested in which liberal commentators they have. Can you offer any names?

    I do watch MSNBC. Everybody already knows about Morning Joe. I gather that he has a cross-section of viewers and guests, but I generally don't start watching TV until the afternoon and can't speak to it. My favorite hour is Nichole Wallace. She worked in the Bush White House and worked with Sarah Palin during her Vice Presidential bid. Guests include Chris Christie and Michael Steele (former House Speaker spokesman}. Frequent contributors include Steve Schmitt (ran McCain election) and Michael Steele (former GOP chairman).
    She is no longer an active Republican and many of her guests and contributors have withdrawn from the Republican party since Trump's election, so you shouldn't expect a pro-Trump hour, but they aren't a bunch of lefties.
    If you watch a steady diet of MSNBC then you get a steady diet of never Trumpers and/or Trump haters. That's just a fact, sorry if you don't see it that way. "Frequent contributors" wouldn't be frequent anymore if they frequently defended Trump.
    If there was anyone who possibly hated Trump more than McCain it is Steve Schmitt. With Morning Joe, AM Joy, et al all in the running.
    Talk about bias confirmation.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Liberal Policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve people's problems.

    Conservative Policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.


    This general description should make any American Conservative.
    I can't believe Americans want the Government to control them and solve their problems for them.
    The whole point of America is to get away from Tyranny and be Free from Government Meddling in individual lives.
    It is this basic idea that a Man's house is his Castle.
    Whatever though, as I said before, Liberalism has invaded so deep into America that their Ideology has won for the time being.
    Most likely, the only solution will be an actual war between the two groups.

    Let's just look at the difference of opinions...

    DEATH PENALTY

    Liberals are against it and claim it should be abolished.

    Conservatives believe in executing a murderer for taking an innocent life.

    To be honest it wasn't long ago we would hang people for far less crimes.

    ECONOMY

    Liberals believe that we should regulate the Market and the Government should control it.

    Conservatives believe in a Free Market System.
    They believe the competition gives us the most growth and better standard for living
    They believe the more the Government Regulates the worse it is for everyone in the long run.

    GUN CONTROL

    Liberals think that individuals should not own guns.
    They believe that Guns Kill People and Guns Kill Children.
    If you want a Gun you have to belong to your State Militia.


    Conservatives believe that the 2nd Amendment gives the individual the right to keep and bear arms.
    They believe that gun ownership actually decreases the crime rate.

    To Be Continued...

    http://wp.lps.org/tnettle/files/2013...nservative.pdf

    These are not monolithic groups. I have several friends that consider themselves liberals and are registered Democrats and to a person every single one of them is Pro death penalty. (They are all pro-choice on abortion though)

    Many of them also own guns and none that I know want take away guns. Some of them want to see more government action like better background checks to stop mass shootings, but many of them are suspicious of the government taking them away also once their foot is in the door.

    I have a relative that is so liberal she voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and supported Bernie this year. She is Pro-death penalty and owns 3 guns, Her main motivation when she votes is she hates Wall Street to the core.

    On government meddling I see many liberals against things like the patriot act and the NSA spying on US citizens while ignoring warnings of Middle Eastern men learning to fly planes and not want to know how to land, and Russia warning US in advance on Boston Bombers and Gov ignores while spending billions to spy on us.

    On regulation I think there can be a lot of middle ground. I think many liberals would agree there is too much bureaucracy and red tape, not even a liberal wants to waste his tax money for a bureaucrat that does nothing that benefits society while collecting great pay, benefits and a cushy pensions.

    I believe that many conservatives would also agree that if we had complete unfettered capitalism all of us “little people” would eventually get f#$&ed by big banking, corporations and robber barons.

    Look how Chase helped Ruth Cris and other big corporations to take multimillion dollar loans from the relief fund while Chase only funded 6% of the smaller business loans before funds ran out. Is Chase et al. going to do the right things when there is lax regulation?


    I think the real issue is labels are too broad since people have many different opinions and very few people on the right or left follow their parties in lock step. But all the partisan bickering keeps us divided so we never have substantive debates on real issues and while everyone bickers, government comes in and fucks us with taxes, regulation, overpaid bureaucrats that make our lives miserable and then retire on huge pensions funded by deficits while corporations come in a d fuck us by buying off both the Democratic and Republican politicians so they can do things like get the language in the relief bill changed at the last minute to raid millions of dollars so that small business thst actually need the money get left twisting in the wind.

    My hope is that at some point Americans can drop the labels, unite, push the things we will never agree on like abortion & and which restroom a tranny uses off to the side and focus on electing politicians that can curb government tyranny AND stop the robber barons from screwing us.

    Long rant. I miss casinos!
    Good post DGenBen
    I think moderates like you and your examples are farther right than you want to admit. The democrat party is speeding away from you faster to the left. People need to wake up to this encroachment and say no more. Where you stand now, in 20 years or less you will be called alt right.
    No. The dynamic in play is clearly this. Any criticism of Trump, makes you immediately a deep liberal. See, us Trump supporters understand that no rational man woud dislike our beloved leader UNLESS they're diehard libtard never worked a day in their life scum.

    It really doesn't matter what your actual political values are. Hey, this is America, that is ok. I'm down with you "moderates" too. (ehh, right, Micky?) Seems reasonable - like me.

    What matters is you don't clown on the most glorious President in the history of the USA. Thats what matters, son. No decent American ever makes fun of the President. Just pure shit does.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by dannyj View Post
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post


    These are not monolithic groups. I have several friends that consider themselves liberals and are registered Democrats and to a person every single one of them is Pro death penalty. (They are all pro-choice on abortion though)

    Many of them also own guns and none that I know want take away guns. Some of them want to see more government action like better background checks to stop mass shootings, but many of them are suspicious of the government taking them away also once their foot is in the door.

    I have a relative that is so liberal she voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and supported Bernie this year. She is Pro-death penalty and owns 3 guns, Her main motivation when she votes is she hates Wall Street to the core.

    On government meddling I see many liberals against things like the patriot act and the NSA spying on US citizens while ignoring warnings of Middle Eastern men learning to fly planes and not want to know how to land, and Russia warning US in advance on Boston Bombers and Gov ignores while spending billions to spy on us.

    On regulation I think there can be a lot of middle ground. I think many liberals would agree there is too much bureaucracy and red tape, not even a liberal wants to waste his tax money for a bureaucrat that does nothing that benefits society while collecting great pay, benefits and a cushy pensions.

    I believe that many conservatives would also agree that if we had complete unfettered capitalism all of us “little people” would eventually get f#$&ed by big banking, corporations and robber barons.

    Look how Chase helped Ruth Cris and other big corporations to take multimillion dollar loans from the relief fund while Chase only funded 6% of the smaller business loans before funds ran out. Is Chase et al. going to do the right things when there is lax regulation?


    I think the real issue is labels are too broad since people have many different opinions and very few people on the right or left follow their parties in lock step. But all the partisan bickering keeps us divided so we never have substantive debates on real issues and while everyone bickers, government comes in and fucks us with taxes, regulation, overpaid bureaucrats that make our lives miserable and then retire on huge pensions funded by deficits while corporations come in a d fuck us by buying off both the Democratic and Republican politicians so they can do things like get the language in the relief bill changed at the last minute to raid millions of dollars so that small business thst actually need the money get left twisting in the wind.

    My hope is that at some point Americans can drop the labels, unite, push the things we will never agree on like abortion & and which restroom a tranny uses off to the side and focus on electing politicians that can curb government tyranny AND stop the robber barons from screwing us.

    Long rant. I miss casinos!
    Good post DGenBen
    I think moderates like you and your examples are farther right than you want to admit. The democrat party is speeding away from you faster to the left. People need to wake up to this encroachment and say no more. Where you stand now, in 20 years or less you will be called alt right.
    No. The dynamic in play is clearly this. Any criticism of Trump, makes you immediately a deep liberal. See, us Trump supporters understand that no rational man woud dislike our beloved leader UNLESS they're diehard libtard never worked a day in their life scum.

    It really doesn't matter what your actual political values are. Hey, this is America, that is ok. I'm down with you "moderates" too. (ehh, right, Micky?) Seems reasonable - like me.

    What matters is you don't clown on the most glorious President in the history of the USA. Thats what matters, son. No decent American ever makes fun of the President. Just pure shit does.
    It doesn't appear very much is clear to you.

    I must be a "deep liberal" after posting this criticism yesterday.

    "I can't defend what he said. It was stupid. Musings or ponderings are not helpful. I think it was yet another instance where he talks too much, flies by the seat of his pants, and misspeaks - badly. But no malice. No bad intent.

    I was a little disappointed to hear him say he was being sarcastic. That's BS. I didn't get that at all. He occasionally did look back at an advisor or someone so I didn't get that as sarcasm."

    Now you can go back to your conversation with yourself.

    And remember you just said,

    "I didn't vote democrat and am not particularly a Democrat. I used to despise Trump, but have come to see the light."

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