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Thread: My (longwinded) recap of the Singer double up bug claim

  1. #1
    I want to begin with Singer's announced retirement as a professional VP (something he never was) in 2009. That is the year Kane/Nestor got busted. Mickey frequently points to this timing as evidence of something, asking was it a co-incidence? My answer: Yes I think it was. I think it had absolutely nothing to do with anything. In 2009, Singer was approaching 60 years old. His credibility with his Singer VP system was shot. It had not lead to the financial rewards in books sales that he thought and hoped. Isn't that also about the time his "gig" at Gambling Today came to a crashing halt? Maybe he was just ready to move on a bit. It appears he owned an RV, although no where near the fantasy claims of 1.5 million, so maybe he was entering a travel in your 60's phase and just winding down. I don't know. Let me repeat I don't know why he announced that then. But I see no indication it had anything to do with the timing of the Kane/Nestor story that he would eventually steal for his own claim.

    So news of the Kane/Nestor arrests broke in 2009 if I am not mistaken. Pretty vague though. Not a lot of details as to exactly what they had done. More a fairly frequent, casino cheaters busted type story.

    In 2011, the story begins to make the news again. That is when the Wired story ran that is so often quoted. This story began to get into details, although some people that would know, claim the sequence published was intentionally published wrong. That is beyond my knowledge. The story remained in the news as the legal maneuverings occurred took place over the next couple years. Wired even updated it's story to include coverage of the legal proceedings and maneuvering.

    Now during this time Singer was still a very active member of VCT, and when discussion of this story made its way to VCT, Singer even chimed in that it was nothing more than a story of cheaters, opining what they did was illegal. He would later say that was to throw people off the track? Who was on his track? Members of this forum were on his track? Ridiculous!

    So after the case was eventually dismissed with whatever agreements were made (I think one guy got probation and there was some sort of agreement that neither would profit off the story) the story kind of faded away for a few years, even in the gambling community and forums.

    So about 2 years ago the story resurfaced. I want to say it was the Cigar Magazine online website that basically re-ran the original Wired Story, with any updates. THIS is the time Singer desperate for a new attention seeking claim, became interested and stole the story. First he tried it out on Alan. And then he broke his claim on this forum about 16 months ago.

    Now prior to breaking the story on this forum, Singer knew he would need someone credible in the community to at least semi back him up. To at least say it was possible. So he contacted both Mickeycrimm and Axelwolf, making "nice" to both, even some sort of arrangement to bury the hatchet with Mickey at which Mickey jumped.

    Now to his credit, Singer had some information about this play that is viewed as not commonly known at that time. Or at least that was the perception last year. Axel now concedes this information was more widely known that he originally thought. I mean I am not exactly sure what we are talking about. Maybe the correct sequence? Something along those lines. I have frequently said Singer could have come into any such information after the fact by any number of ways.

    One such way and a strong possibility is he figured it out on machines from that era that he had access to. So he could have come up with the sequence or whatever other info it was thought to be not widely known, but it would have been long after the fact. Not playing the play for 5 years for 2.8 million dollars! And there are even other ways that he could have come up with such info. Info, that as my interpretation of what Axelwolf now says, gave Singer some credibility but still left many holes in his story.

    So as you would expect, Singers new claim wasn't all that well received. I mean this is a guy that had made all sorts of claims that just couldn't be for years, even decades. So people rightfully asked for something to back up this claim. Singer had no proof to offer, but always had excuses. He got rid of tax and casino information because he wasn't required to keep that. And we have been at that stand still for the last year basically, until Alan brought this back to life and to his credit offered a way that Singer could provide some supporting evidence. Show documentation of what he did with the money! Not sure why others didn't think of it. Maybe they did, but it always got buried under Singer's deflections.

    This presents a problem for Singer, because financial records publicly available don't match what he has previously stated he did with the money, purchased real estate in family members names. He also is unwilling to provide any documentation of the purchase of a 1.5 million dollar EV, which he claims was purchased with the Double up bug winnings. Never proof, but always an excuse!

    Now lets get into the question about looking up this publicly available information. Is that wrong? Well maybe. Sort of. I don't feel great about my part in looking up such info. But Singer continues on with these claims. I guess everyone will have to decide for themselves if using this public info to prove his claims are BS is fair. In my defense, I have only shared a recap of information that directly disputes his claims. There are plenty of things in Singers publicly available information, that is not every flattering that have absolutely nothing to do with these claims that I have not brought up. Only publicly info disputing this claim.

    One of the widely controversial things that I did mention was the food stamp penalty reference. And this item is no longer there. I don't know how or why it was removed. I really don't know how that works. It may just be as simple as the 5 year period expired and that is not the kind of thing that remains permanently. Again I don't know. And because it is now gone, everyone will have to decide for themselves about that. But let me tell you why this is relevant. Like I said, I only brought up things that are in direct dispute to this claim. And if he was on food stamps at the which would have been during or after he accumulated 2.8 million dollars playing the double up.....it just doesn't square, so that was relevant and my mention of it fair. I make absolutely no judgements of anyone on food stamps or any other program. But it just doesn't square with the 2.8 million dollar claim.

    This is my take of where we are. But anyone feeling I misrepresented them or something they said, feel free to chime in.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  2. #2
    KJ your first paragraph is pure fantasy so didn't read the rest. I already know the rest is fantasy too. Getting really tired of reading the same regurgitated bullshit from you. The only thing that comes thru is our total obsession with Rob Siner. Get over it. You need to get a life. Take up sewing or something.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    KJ your first paragraph is pure fantasy so didn't read the rest. I already know the rest is fantasy too. Getting really tired of reading the same regurgitated bullshit from you. The only thing that comes thru is our total obsession with Rob Siner. Get over it. You need to get a life. Take up sewing or something.
    His first paragraph is pure fantasy, my goodness his very first sentence is just ridiculous. Repeated again:

    "I want to begin with Singer's announced retirement as a professional VP (something he never was) in 2009."

    This is coming from someone who calls himself a professional gambler for providing a living for himself, okay so it is. However, every clerk who works in a grocery store, WHO IS ALSO MAKING $14.75 an hour and subsidizes their living expenses should be able to call themselves professionals. Although, they are not fortunate to get in 80 hour weeks like KJ (25 hours actual playing time the rest preparation) but, he does not get time and a half or double time on Sundays.
    Last edited by BoSox; 05-05-2020 at 06:25 AM.

  4. #4
    When you consider KJ that you do not get the fringes like paid holidays, paid vacations, health coverage etc, that professional distinction does not sound so high and mighty now does it?

  5. #5
    Moses, response to the above quote #4:

    "Moses writes: I never cared for the term "Pro." For one thing, it only fires up the opposition. There is no draft. No contract signing. No trade clause. No license required. It's just a self-professed term the dipshits use to elevate themselves about others on forums."

    Moses, exactly, you 100% nailed it perfectly.

    Moses wrote:

    "It's hard work just to be competitive. Let alone eek out a profit. Im always very concerned as to how I must look to the other hard working dealers and pit bosses. So I want to be humble, respectful, and gracious to them."

    That is how 99.99 percent of the AP crowd look's upon all of the sequence. Only KJ has extra ability, to be able to read the dealers and pit crew's emotions and reactions toward him. What a baffoon. I did not realize all the extra ability KJ has besides counting multi tables. Keystone keep your shit queer remarks to yourself please. Anyone should realize that Moses has more meaningfull and realistic responses than the Pro blackjack player on this site.

  6. #6
    Forum rules:

    #8. You may not post messages on behalf of banned users, nor may you post their content from other forums.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  7. #7
    That is your thing now BoSox? Moses tells you what to post and you run here and post it.

    Besides being against forum rules, it is lame. Try having an original thought instead of someone telling you what to think and write.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Moses, response to the above quote #4:

    "Moses writes: I never cared for the term "Pro." For one thing, it only fires up the opposition. There is no draft. No contract signing. No trade clause. No license required. It's just a self-professed term the dipshits use to elevate themselves about others on forums."

    Moses, exactly, you 100% nailed it perfectly.

    Moses wrote:

    "It's hard work just to be competitive. Let alone eek out a profit. Im always very concerned as to how I must look to the other hard working dealers and pit bosses. So I want to be humble, respectful, and gracious to them."

    That is how 99.99 percent of the AP crowd look's upon all of the sequence. Only KJ has extra ability, to be able to read the dealers and pit crew's emotions and reactions toward him. What a baffoon. I did not realize all the extra ability KJ has besides counting multi tables. Keystone keep your shit queer remarks to yourself please. Anyone should realize that Moses has more meaningfull and realistic responses than the Pro blackjack player on this site.
    Nobody give a fuck about moses. Tell him to go jump in his burning bush.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Moses, response to the above quote #4:

    "Moses writes: I never cared for the term "Pro." For one thing, it only fires up the opposition. There is no draft. No contract signing. No trade clause. No license required. It's just a self-professed term the dipshits use to elevate themselves about others on forums."

    Moses, exactly, you 100% nailed it perfectly.

    Moses wrote:

    "It's hard work just to be competitive. Let alone eek out a profit. Im always very concerned as to how I must look to the other hard working dealers and pit bosses. So I want to be humble, respectful, and gracious to them."

    That is how 99.99 percent of the AP crowd look's upon all of the sequence. Only KJ has extra ability, to be able to read the dealers and pit crew's emotions and reactions toward him. What a baffoon. I did not realize all the extra ability KJ has besides counting multi tables. Keystone keep your shit queer remarks to yourself please. Anyone should realize that Moses has more meaningfull and realistic responses than the Pro blackjack player on this site.

    At first I thought my pal Moses posted that comment above about me, but then I realized you've always been the dummy that doesn't know how to post quotes properly ...I get it tho, that`s tough stuff lol....BTW fuck brain, if you don`t want any queer remarks directed your way, then I suggest you don`t make any yourself like you did the other day about me. Otherwise, I will just jam it back down your throat, which you may or may not enjoy lol

    Moses, just saw your question to me...the answer is, No, I do not...sometimes people reap what they sow....Hope you are doing well
    Last edited by Keystone; 05-05-2020 at 10:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Forum rules:

    #8. You may not post messages on behalf of banned users, nor may you post their content from other forums.
    Good catch Kj. I think this is the first time in over a year a rule has ever been broken on this forum, so I’m surprised you were able to catch a rule violation. Lol. Are you going to run to Dan and be a tattletale?

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    When you consider KJ that you do not get the fringes like paid holidays, paid vacations, health coverage etc, that professional distinction does not sound so high and mighty now does it?
    You will argue about anything I say now wont you?

    definition of professional: engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime

    You have a problem with it, talk to Merriam-Webster.


    Oh that's right, it isn't even YOUR argument. You are just passing on someone else's argument like a puppet.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    When you consider KJ that you do not get the fringes like paid holidays, paid vacations, health coverage etc, that professional distinction does not sound so high and mighty now does it?
    You will argue about anything I say now wont you?

    Oh that's right, it isn't even YOUR argument. You are just passing on someone else's argument like a puppet.
    Wrong again, it just so happens that I agree with with the quotes that I put up from Moses. Besides you started an entire thread on the man who cannot respond here. Out of fairness alone someone should give him a voice.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Moses, response to the above quote #4:

    "Moses writes: I never cared for the term "Pro." For one thing, it only fires up the opposition. There is no draft. No contract signing. No trade clause. No license required. It's just a self-professed term the dipshits use to elevate themselves about others on forums."

    Moses, exactly, you 100% nailed it perfectly.

    Moses wrote:

    "It's hard work just to be competitive. Let alone eek out a profit. Im always very concerned as to how I must look to the other hard working dealers and pit bosses. So I want to be humble, respectful, and gracious to them."

    That is how 99.99 percent of the AP crowd look's upon all of the sequence. Only KJ has extra ability, to be able to read the dealers and pit crew's emotions and reactions toward him. What a baffoon. I did not realize all the extra ability KJ has besides counting multi tables. Keystone keep your shit queer remarks to yourself please. Anyone should realize that Moses has more meaningfull and realistic responses than the Pro blackjack player on this site.

    At first I thought my pal Moses posted that comment above about me, but then I realized you've always been the dummy that doesn't know how to post quotes properly ...I get it tho, that`s tough stuff lol....BTW fuck brain, if you don`t want any queer remarks directed your way, then I suggest you don`t make any yourself like you did the other day about me. Otherwise, I will just jam it back down your throat, which you may or may not enjoy lol
    Listen Keystone, you started all this bullshit with me recently and I am just responding politely. I am going to try and avoid an all-out war with you as I have nothing against you. Frankly, I have no idea if you are any kind of an AP in any capacity or if you even gamble at all. Enjoy yourself.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    KJ your first paragraph is pure fantasy so didn't read the rest. I already know the rest is fantasy too. Getting really tired of reading the same regurgitated bullshit from you. The only thing that comes thru is our total obsession with Rob Siner. Get over it. You need to get a life. Take up sewing or something.
    Mickey. Sinner has two n's
    Take off that stupid mask you big baby.

  15. #15
    Quahaug, I thought you were going to add another letter and go with, Skinner, actually B. F. Skinner, who was an American psychologist. Among many things, he is known for developing a theory of behaviorism.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    When you consider KJ that you do not get the fringes like paid holidays, paid vacations, health coverage etc, that professional distinction does not sound so high and mighty now does it?
    If you do it right it's one big life holiday.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    KJ your first paragraph is pure fantasy so didn't read the rest. I already know the rest is fantasy too. Getting really tired of reading the same regurgitated bullshit from you. The only thing that comes thru is our total obsession with Rob Siner. Get over it. You need to get a life. Take up sewing or something.
    Mickey. Sinner has two n's

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
    Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Moses, response to the above quote #4:

    "Moses writes: I never cared for the term "Pro." For one thing, it only fires up the opposition. There is no draft. No contract signing. No trade clause. No license required. It's just a self-professed term the dipshits use to elevate themselves about others on forums."

    Moses, exactly, you 100% nailed it perfectly.

    Moses wrote:

    "It's hard work just to be competitive. Let alone eek out a profit. Im always very concerned as to how I must look to the other hard working dealers and pit bosses. So I want to be humble, respectful, and gracious to them."

    That is how 99.99 percent of the AP crowd look's upon all of the sequence. Only KJ has extra ability, to be able to read the dealers and pit crew's emotions and reactions toward him. What a baffoon. I did not realize all the extra ability KJ has besides counting multi tables. Keystone keep your shit queer remarks to yourself please. Anyone should realize that Moses has more meaningfull and realistic responses than the Pro blackjack player on this site.

    At first I thought my pal Moses posted that comment above about me, but then I realized you've always been the dummy that doesn't know how to post quotes properly ...I get it tho, that`s tough stuff lol....BTW fuck brain, if you don`t want any queer remarks directed your way, then I suggest you don`t make any yourself like you did the other day about me. Otherwise, I will just jam it back down your throat, which you may or may not enjoy lol
    Listen Keystone, you started all this bullshit with me recently and I am just responding politely. I am going to try and avoid an all-out war with you as I have nothing against you. Frankly, I have no idea if you are any kind of an AP in any capacity or if you even gamble at all. Enjoy yourself.
    Fair enough Mr. Sox, no war necessary....and no, not an AP by any stretch, wouldn`t know how even if I wanted to...Have a career I enjoy and that pays me decently, and I do enjoy Vegas and gambling....I`m one of those guys that goes to Vegas maybe 4-5 times a year and expects to pay for a good time there...Have gotten lucky quite a few times, but more often than not I return home with far less than I when I left lol

  19. #19
    "Professional Gambler" is what you have to put on the income tax form in order to get the writeoffs. To me "professional gambler" is an oxymoron.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    "Professional Gambler" is what you have to put on the income tax form in order to get the writeoffs. To me "professional gambler" is an oxymoron.
    Mickey, did you make it to the re-opening today? If so I hope that you enjoyed yourself and didn't overexert?

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