Honestly, proper training on duty to intervene and not having cops do anything solo would probably cover most problems. You’ve got Chauvin, but if any of the other officers had pulled him off of Floyd, the last few weeks doesn’t happen.
Honestly, proper training on duty to intervene and not having cops do anything solo would probably cover most problems. You’ve got Chauvin, but if any of the other officers had pulled him off of Floyd, the last few weeks doesn’t happen.
The first time I saw that video I kept waiting for one of the other cops to give Chauvin the tap on his shoulder, as if to say okay that's good we got him, you can get off him now. They never did. Then the longer it went on I was expecting one of them to go behind Chauvin and grab him by his shoulders to pull him off. That didn't happen either. I think there was grave concern on the part of at least one cop who was in front, but for whatever reason they didn't intervene. Perhaps it was because Chauvin was the supervising officer and they were brand new and didn't want to show him up. Either way it's a tragedy that they didn't have the courage to stuff Chauvin's rank & experience and get him off of Floyd's neck.Originally Posted by Mission146
Yeah, I thought the same thing. It was so bad it wouldn’t be too far fetched to go down the conspiracy road, and believe Chauvin was a Black Lives Matters sympathizer and decided to sacrifice his life to further their cause.Originally Posted by dannyjThe first time I saw that video I kept waiting for one of the other cops to give Chauvin the tap on his shoulder, as if to say okay that's good we got him, you can get off him now. They never did. Then the longer it went on I was expecting one of them to go behind Chauvin and grab him by his shoulders to pull him off. That didn't happen either. I think there was grave concern on the part of at least one cop who was in front, but for whatever reason they didn't intervene. Perhaps it was because Chauvin was the supervising officer and they were brand new and didn't want to show him up. Either way it's a tragedy that they didn't have the courage to stuff Chauvin's rank & experience and get him off of Floyd's neck.Originally Posted by Mission146
I mean this makes as much sense as believing he woke up that morning wanting to spend the rest of his life in jail and probably be killed in jail. I mean his life is ruined no matter how you look at it.
People are speculating on if this or that happened during the incident, Floyd wouldn’t have died and our country wouldn’t be in this mess. Well that’s true with almost anything like this. That’s why it made news...it’s the exception.
If we’re going to play the “what if” game, let’s go back even further. What if we had a justify system that worked? If we had one that worked, Floyd wouldn’t have been on the streets that day high on drugs committing a crime, and this incident would have never happened. I mean Floyd had been in prison 9 times. You’d think at some point, our justice system would keep him in prison. We used to have a 3 strikes and you’re out rule. I mean this guy had 9 strikes and he still wasn’t out.
Reducing the amount of violent encounters between police and criminals will go along way in stopping something like this.
The sad fact is this incident will lead to more innocent police officers being killed in the line of duty. They are already 18 times more likely to die in an encounter with a black man than the other way around. Why is this? Probably because the officers are too hesitatant to use force. Now they will be even more hestitant to use force, so more will be killed in the line of duty.
When will there be outrage and protests for all the innocent cops being killed?
So if you want to know who to blame, it’s really our liberal justice system that continues to release violent criminals back into society.
And who is responsible for our liberal justice system? Liberal Democrats. These problems all come back to liberals. That’s why I harp so much on liberals.
I think the autopsy report shows that nothing Chauvin did caused Floyd's death. I also saw an article that stated that hold is allowed in the Minneapolis PD. Stock up on ammo because all these cops are gonna walk.Originally Posted by dannyjThe first time I saw that video I kept waiting for one of the other cops to give Chauvin the tap on his shoulder, as if to say okay that's good we got him, you can get off him now. They never did. Then the longer it went on I was expecting one of them to go behind Chauvin and grab him by his shoulders to pull him off. That didn't happen either. I think there was grave concern on the part of at least one cop who was in front, but for whatever reason they didn't intervene. Perhaps it was because Chauvin was the supervising officer and they were brand new and didn't want to show him up. Either way it's a tragedy that they didn't have the courage to stuff Chauvin's rank & experience and get him off of Floyd's neck.Originally Posted by Mission146
Yes, sir! Don't you worry, I'll be plenty ready.Originally Posted by MaxPen
Violence/Aggression/Crime---No.
Self-Defense---Yes.
Life/Death---Don't Really Care.
Let's have some fucking fun! If they come to me, not my fault.
I’ve read the same thing. This case is more similar to the Rodney King case than people realize. Even though the police beating Rodney looked bad at the end, it didn’t look as bad in context. Everybody agreed the initial blows were warranted to stop a man resisting arrest. So then as a jury you’ve got to decide which blows were exessive. That’s not easy since Rodney King never complied.Originally Posted by MaxPenI think the autopsy report shows that nothing Chauvin did caused Floyd's death. I also saw an article that stated that hold is allowed in the Minneapolis PD. Stock up on ammo because all these cops are gonna walk.Originally Posted by dannyjThe first time I saw that video I kept waiting for one of the other cops to give Chauvin the tap on his shoulder, as if to say okay that's good we got him, you can get off him now. They never did. Then the longer it went on I was expecting one of them to go behind Chauvin and grab him by his shoulders to pull him off. That didn't happen either. I think there was grave concern on the part of at least one cop who was in front, but for whatever reason they didn't intervene. Perhaps it was because Chauvin was the supervising officer and they were brand new and didn't want to show him up. Either way it's a tragedy that they didn't have the courage to stuff Chauvin's rank & experience and get him off of Floyd's neck.Originally Posted by Mission146
With George Floyd, he resisted arrest for 10 mins. It doesn’t matter he was in handcuffs; he was resisting arrest and wouldn’t get in the police car. There is footage of the scuffles. The police finally gave up and restrained him and obviously went too far. But if you are the jury you’ve got to determine at what point was it exsessive. It is easy to see from the outside, when we’re only seeing the end of this encounter. But within context of the police struggling with Floyd for 10 minutes, and then having to restrain him, it’s not as clear cut.
The confusion and taunting from the onlookers probably contributed to the problem. I rewatched the whole video Darkoz posted. There are two times Floyd raised his head off the pavement and Chauvin’s knee goes up so it wasn’t like Chauvin had all his weight on that knee. It’s not as open and shut case as people think.
But people like MWP who don’t believe in equal justice for our cops have already convicted all the cops before they get their day in court. Sad.
I don't know Max, maybe 2 or 3 but not Chauvin. I hadn't heard that about the autopsy report, but if that's true I guess one could make a case that they may have over charged with 2nd degree murder. Couldn't imagine being on that jury, where anything less than what he has been charged with won't be accepted. Hell, the lynch mob would have already put him in front of a wall.Originally Posted by MaxPenI think the autopsy report shows that nothing Chauvin did caused Floyd's death. I also saw an article that stated that hold is allowed in the Minneapolis PD. Stock up on ammo because all these cops are gonna walk.Originally Posted by dannyjThe first time I saw that video I kept waiting for one of the other cops to give Chauvin the tap on his shoulder, as if to say okay that's good we got him, you can get off him now. They never did. Then the longer it went on I was expecting one of them to go behind Chauvin and grab him by his shoulders to pull him off. That didn't happen either. I think there was grave concern on the part of at least one cop who was in front, but for whatever reason they didn't intervene. Perhaps it was because Chauvin was the supervising officer and they were brand new and didn't want to show him up. Either way it's a tragedy that they didn't have the courage to stuff Chauvin's rank & experience and get him off of Floyd's neck.Originally Posted by Mission146
I have enough ammo for a red dawn invasion.
Not me, I'm afraid. But, I have enough to at least take a few motherfuckers with me.Originally Posted by dannyj
I only have more than that because I plan on passing it out to people that think like me. Everyone has to sleep.Originally Posted by Mission146Not me, I'm afraid. But, I have enough to at least take a few motherfuckers with me.Originally Posted by dannyj
This is where I would love the show a picture. As many of us with common sense would.Originally Posted by MaxPenI only have more than that because I plan on passing it out to people that think like me. Everyone has to sleep.Originally Posted by Mission146Not me, I'm afraid. But, I have enough to at least take a few motherfuckers with me.Originally Posted by dannyj
There were now two autopsies done. One by the county medical examiner and one hired by the Floyd family.Originally Posted by MaxPenI think the autopsy report shows that nothing Chauvin did caused Floyd's death. I also saw an article that stated that hold is allowed in the Minneapolis PD. Stock up on ammo because all these cops are gonna walk.Originally Posted by dannyjThe first time I saw that video I kept waiting for one of the other cops to give Chauvin the tap on his shoulder, as if to say okay that's good we got him, you can get off him now. They never did. Then the longer it went on I was expecting one of them to go behind Chauvin and grab him by his shoulders to pull him off. That didn't happen either. I think there was grave concern on the part of at least one cop who was in front, but for whatever reason they didn't intervene. Perhaps it was because Chauvin was the supervising officer and they were brand new and didn't want to show him up. Either way it's a tragedy that they didn't have the courage to stuff Chauvin's rank & experience and get him off of Floyd's neck.Originally Posted by Mission146
According to this article they amount to saying the same thing in different wordd.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethi...they-seem/amp/
The cause of death was something like "Heart attack brought on by carotid artery pressure" (it was in more scientific terms).
A lot of Chauvin supporters honed in on the heart attack aspect as if having someone hold a knee on your neck as you lose consciousness couldn't possibly be a factor in causing a heart attack, SMH
I find the whole argument of natural causes ridiculous. To understand how ridiculous just substitute someone who is not a cop holding his knee on an old ladies neck for 8 minutes like Chauvin did and then ask how you would laugh when the defense says"but she died of natural causes. See she suffered a heart attack while that guys knee was on her neck".
Yeah, we know everyone one here would not find that credible
There are a lot of Chauvin supporters?Originally Posted by DarkozThere were now two autopsies done. One by the county medical examiner and one hired by the Floyd family.Originally Posted by MaxPenI think the autopsy report shows that nothing Chauvin did caused Floyd's death. I also saw an article that stated that hold is allowed in the Minneapolis PD. Stock up on ammo because all these cops are gonna walk.Originally Posted by dannyj
According to this article they amount to saying the same thing in different wordd.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethi...they-seem/amp/
The cause of death was something like "Heart attack brought on by carotid artery pressure" (it was in more scientific terms).
A lot of Chauvin supporters honed in on the heart attack aspect as if having someone hold a knee on your neck as you lose consciousness couldn't possibly be a factor in causing a heart attack, SMH
Perhaps not. I see even Fox news and a lot of people on the right are horrified at Chauvin acts. So apologize if I went too far.Originally Posted by dannyjThere are a lot of Chauvin supporters?Originally Posted by DarkozThere were now two autopsies done. One by the county medical examiner and one hired by the Floyd family.Originally Posted by MaxPen
According to this article they amount to saying the same thing in different wordd.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethi...they-seem/amp/
The cause of death was something like "Heart attack brought on by carotid artery pressure" (it was in more scientific terms).
A lot of Chauvin supporters honed in on the heart attack aspect as if having someone hold a knee on your neck as you lose consciousness couldn't possibly be a factor in causing a heart attack, SMH
Just saying the autopsies don't exonerate Chauvin as much as the last few posts might suggest
We'll leave it to the experts during the trial.....FYI disclosure,,,,I already have action that Chauvin will not be found guilty of any degree of murder or manslaughter.
Darkoz, I don’t think anybody’s trying to exonerate Chauvin. I’m just looking at it from the defense standpoint. What would I do if I was Chauvin’s lawyer? All I’m saying is Chauvin does have a case, more so than I think some people think.Originally Posted by DarkozPerhaps not. I see even Fox news and a lot of people on the right are horrified at Chauvin acts. So apologize if I went too far.Originally Posted by dannyjThere are a lot of Chauvin supporters?Originally Posted by Darkoz
Just saying the autopsies don't exonerate Chauvin as much as the last few posts might suggest
Here’s his case: Chauvin is a police officer and was called to arrest someone for committing a crime. That person resisted arrest for 10 minutes. That person was high on drugs. Chauvin and two other police officers then restrained Floyd while they called an ambulance. I’m still unclear why the ambulance was called because it was called two minutes after they were sitting on him.
The police used a technique to restrain Floyd which is part of police protocol. During the time Floyd was restrained he died. Like I said, there’s no one who doesn’t think the restraint was overboard. But if you’re going to convict Cheuvan of some type of murder you have to show intent to kill. And that’s going to be harder to prove then people think.
Bystanders pointing out Floyd wasn’t moving and other things bystanders were saying can be dismissed by the defense as the cops hearing this kind of complaining on a daily basis, so over time the cops have become tone deaf to it. I mean I watch these reality cop shows sometimes and cops are always being yelled at and disrespected in these neighborhoods.
The first autopsy will be used by the defense to support other factors being involved in Floyd’s death, such as a heart condition and drugs. Obviously, the officers sitting on him was the main contributing cause. I don’t think anybody questions that. But the autopsy report does give the defense some ammunition.
Floyd’s criminal record will not be admissible in court, but what happened that day will be. Floyd wasn’t a model criminal that day. His actions led to the reason he was restrained.
I have no idea how the case will turn out, but Chauvin does have a defense. I expect he will be found guilty on some lesser charge of police brutality. I do not believe he will be convicted of third-degree murder, from what I read third-degree murder is. It’ll be interesting to see what happens. If it doesn’t turn out the way the liberals want, watch out.
And I do think if our criminal justice system had done its job this would’ve never happened. Floyd would’ve been sitting in jail behind bars rather than out in society committing another crime.
Last edited by Bob21; 06-12-2020 at 07:57 PM.
I agree and the defense has every right to argue their case to the fullestOriginally Posted by Bob21Darkoz, I don’t think anybody’s trying to exonerate Chauvin. I’m just looking at it from the defense standpoint. What would I do if I was Chauvin’s lawyer? All I’m saying is Chauvin does have a case, more so than I think some people think.Originally Posted by DarkozPerhaps not. I see even Fox news and a lot of people on the right are horrified at Chauvin acts. So apologize if I went too far.Originally Posted by dannyj
Just saying the autopsies don't exonerate Chauvin as much as the last few posts might suggest
Here’s his case: Chauvin is a police officer and was called to arrest someone for committing a crime. That person resisted arrest for 10 minutes. That person was high on drugs. Chauvin and two other police officers then restrained Floyd while they called an ambulance. I’m still unclear why the ambulance was called because it was called two minutes after they were sitting on him.
The police used a technique to restrain Floyd which is part of police protocol. During the time Floyd was restrained he died. Like I said, there’s no one who doesn’t think the restraint was overboard. But if you’re going to convict Cheuvan of some type of murder you have to show intent to kill. And that’s going to be harder to prove then people think.
Bystanders pointing out Floyd wasn’t moving and other things bystanders were saying can be dismissed by the defense as the cops hearing this kind of complaining on a daily basis, so over time the cops have become tone deaf to it. I mean I watch these reality cop shows sometimes and cops are always being yelled at and disrespected in these neighborhoods.
The first autopsy will be used by the defense to support other factors being involved in Floyd’s death, such as a heart condition and drugs. Obviously, the officers sitting on him was the main contributing cause. I don’t think anybody questions that. But the autopsy report does give the defense some ammunition.
Floyd’s criminal record will not be admissible in court, but what happened that day will be. Floyd wasn’t a model criminal that day. His actions led to the reason he was restrained.
I have no idea how the case will turn out, but Chauvin does have a defense. I expect he will be found guilty on some lesser charge of police brutality. I do not believe he will be convicted of third-degree murder, from what I read third-degree murder is. It’ll be interesting to see what happens. If it doesn’t turn out the way the liberals want, watch out.
And I do think if our criminal justice system had done its job this would’ve never happened. Floyd would’ve been sitting in jail behind bars rather than out in society committing another crime.
I do disagree about proving 3rd degree murder which is one of his charges. They may not prove 2nd degree but 3rd I think the video says it all.
The 3rd degree statute in Minnesota is a bit different than I believe elsewhere
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
Notice the very first line. Whoever WITHOUT INTENT to effect the death...
I.E. they don't have to prove Derek Chauvin had any intent to murder Floyd. All they have to prove is depraved indifference to human life.
Hmmm!
Good point! Yeah, third degree murder fits.Originally Posted by DarkozI agree and the defense has every right to argue their case to the fullestOriginally Posted by Bob21Darkoz, I don’t think anybody’s trying to exonerate Chauvin. I’m just looking at it from the defense standpoint. What would I do if I was Chauvin’s lawyer? All I’m saying is Chauvin does have a case, more so than I think some people think.Originally Posted by Darkoz
Here’s his case: Chauvin is a police officer and was called to arrest someone for committing a crime. That person resisted arrest for 10 minutes. That person was high on drugs. Chauvin and two other police officers then restrained Floyd while they called an ambulance. I’m still unclear why the ambulance was called because it was called two minutes after they were sitting on him.
The police used a technique to restrain Floyd which is part of police protocol. During the time Floyd was restrained he died. Like I said, there’s no one who doesn’t think the restraint was overboard. But if you’re going to convict Cheuvan of some type of murder you have to show intent to kill. And that’s going to be harder to prove then people think.
Bystanders pointing out Floyd wasn’t moving and other things bystanders were saying can be dismissed by the defense as the cops hearing this kind of complaining on a daily basis, so over time the cops have become tone deaf to it. I mean I watch these reality cop shows sometimes and cops are always being yelled at and disrespected in these neighborhoods.
The first autopsy will be used by the defense to support other factors being involved in Floyd’s death, such as a heart condition and drugs. Obviously, the officers sitting on him was the main contributing cause. I don’t think anybody questions that. But the autopsy report does give the defense some ammunition.
Floyd’s criminal record will not be admissible in court, but what happened that day will be. Floyd wasn’t a model criminal that day. His actions led to the reason he was restrained.
I have no idea how the case will turn out, but Chauvin does have a defense. I expect he will be found guilty on some lesser charge of police brutality. I do not believe he will be convicted of third-degree murder, from what I read third-degree murder is. It’ll be interesting to see what happens. If it doesn’t turn out the way the liberals want, watch out.
And I do think if our criminal justice system had done its job this would’ve never happened. Floyd would’ve been sitting in jail behind bars rather than out in society committing another crime.
I do disagree about proving 3rd degree murder which is one of his charges. They may not prove 2nd degree but 3rd I think the video says it all.
The 3rd degree statute in Minnesota is a bit different than I believe elsewhere
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
Notice the very first line. Whoever WITHOUT INTENT to effect the death...
I.E. they don't have to prove Derek Chauvin had any intent to murder Floyd. All they have to prove is depraved indifference to human life.
Hmmm!
But the fact there were two other cops on Floyd will make it difficult to prove who killed him. I looked at the video again and the cop in the middle had both knees on Floyd, meaning all his weight was on Floyd.
At least Chauvin had one knee on the pavement, indicating his whole weight wasn’t on Floyd’s neck. And the first autopsy didn’t see signs of strangulation. Also, at one point Floyd cries out his stomach hurts, meaning the weight of the cop on his back was hurting him.
If they can’t prove which cop killed him, it’s difficult to convict either one. It actually works to Chauvin’s favor there was more than one cop on top of Floyd.
There’s a lot for a defense attorney to work with in these videos. Even Chauvin pulling out his mace can about half way through the video indicates Chauvin’s state of mind, and that he was in a defensive mindset.
No doubt about it, the video looks bad...and Chauvin could get convicted for 3rd degree murder. But if the jury finds him innocent of 3rd degree murder, I wouldn’t be surprised either.
I’ll be watching the trial. If it looks like Chauvin might be acquitted, people need to stock up on things because we could be headed to Armageddon.
According to at least one report, Derek Chauvin felt that because George Floyd was talking fine, Floyd was okay when he was pleading fir him to get off his knee. Only when Floyd DIED was when Chauvin realized he just killed someone. The other Officers were also at fault. They coukd and should have gotten Chauvin off of George's damn neck. No wonder they are also being charged too. I can't believe I'm saying this, but tines like this is when using a damn Tazer would have been better than what happened. Suspect is furiously resisting arrest? Tazing him would have been much better than putting a knee in his neck for almost 9 ninutes! He involuntarily "Dances," he is able to be arrested, and no one DIES!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7
Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.
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That's factually inaccurate. In the State of Minnesota, third-degree murder does not require intent to kill. Specifically, it can merely require indifference to whether or not the person lives or dies. If I had to express Chauvin's facial expressions throughout in a word, "Indifferent," would be on my short list. In fact, Third-Degree Murder is the charge they use specifically for absence of intent.Originally Posted by Bob21
EDIT-ADDED----Sorry, I see this part was already addressed.
You would definitely make the argument, but I'm not sure it holds water when you're talking about the better part of ten minutes.
Yeah, some sort of police brutality or maybe involuntary manslaughter.
Ask you this: Now knowing third-degree does not require intent, if the prosecution offered you a plea deal for Involuntary Manslaughter, and you're Chauvin's attorney, do you take the deal?
Yes, I would take it. Like you said, for almost 10 mins doing what he did is hard to justify.Originally Posted by Mission146
But I doubt if the prosecution politically will be able to do that, meaning offer Chauvin a plea deal. It’d look like they were letting Chauvin off easy. I think they will have to go forward with the 3rd degree murder charges, which might be an overreach. I mean some people want 1st degree murder charges. There’s a big group like MWP that wants Chauvin burned at the stake without any trial.
There are several articles about Minneapolis neck resistant procedures. It can be used in theee cases. And Chauvin use of it fits one of those cases, based on what Floyd did. So Chauvin was technically following police protocol.
Then the question becomes when should Chauvin have stopped. That’s a more difficult question to answer than people think. Obviously, Floyd saying he can’t breath isn’t good for Chauvin.
The couple things Chauvin has going for him is the autopsy report and other police were kneeing on Floyd too. How can the defense prove who really killed him?
I agree it’s hard to watch, and it’s hard to see Chauvin not understanding what it looked like to others. I expect in Chauvin’s mind he felt he was just implementing a move he was taught to restrain a man who continually resisted arrest. There is no question Chauvin took it too far. But to say he intended to kill a man that day is ridiculous.
Like you said, 3rd degree doesn’t require “intent” so they have a chance to get him on that. But it could fail. It’s definitely not a slam dunk case.
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