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[kewlJ]

deleted

[monet]

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...ds/#post773318

Last night, unable to find anything interesting on TV on 800 channels, I watched a few minutes of the horse racing channel. I am not a big horse racing guy, so maybe it was just total sports withdraw setting in.

So I got to thinking about the difference between horse racing and sports betting regarding the odds you get.

Sportsbetting you get the odds at the time you place the bet where as horse racing you get the odds based on when the event (race) goes off. This means that you can bet a 4-1 horse only to have some whale dump big money at the last second knocking your bet to even money or less.

Just imagine with sportsbetting, you bet say the Eagles at +7.5, only to have the odds change and by game time you have the Eagles +2.5. Nobody would stand for that. The odds are set by the amount of wagers at the time the wager is placed, so why does horseracing change your odds based on wagered placed after your wager? It doesn't make sense to me and it surely doesn't make sense that two almost identical things horse racing and sportsbetting are handled completely differently.

Any thoughts?

All this time in Vegas and you don't know how Horse Racing Works???
It has a pool called pari-mutuel betting.
Sports Betting has a Vig and the Book Maker is just collecting a percentage of all the bets.

You would think with all your Yiddish Talk, like Shyster, you would understand Vig.
You would also think, with your Million Dollar Vegas Experience and love of Sports, you would understand the difference between Sports Betting and Race Betting.

Concentrate on masking up and hiding in your apartment, crying about how the Chink Virus is the worst thing to happen in your lifetime.

[coach belly]

It has a pool called pari-mutuel betting.

Is the pool used to determine the payoffs only the wagers placed at the track, or a combination of track and remote site wagering?

[monet]

I probably should have used a moneyline sportsbet as my example rather than the Eagles +7.5 (where vig comes into play). Let's change the example to a bet on Eagles at +280 when placed and it moves to +135 by game time.

Nobody would stand for that. Your wager is based on the odds at the time of the wager and those odds are based on what has been bet up until that point. I don't see why horseracing shouldn't be the same way. Why should wagers and the betting pool made after your wager effect your wager?

You really are a Fucking Idiot.
I don't understand how you can count Two Tables and make Millions of Dollars in Blackjack but you can't understand the difference between Sports Betting and Race Betting.

[kewlJ]

Listen pork chop, you fat bastard, I understand how horseracing works. If you knew how to read, the question was "why"?

Horse racing also takes a percentage off the top and distributes the rest of the pool among winning wagers. That is exactly what moneyline wagers do. The difference is moneyline sportsbets are calculated at the time of the wager, rather than includuing the money AFTER the wager. The question remains, why the difference?

[coach belly]

Horse racing also takes a percentage off the top and distributes the rest of the pool among winning wagers. That is exactly what moneyline wagers do.

Haven't sports bettors won more than was wagered on the event?

[MaxPen]

100% on the fixing. The jockeys in Maryland at the harness track used to meet pre race and decide a number of races in advance. It was in their interest because of the way they got paid. This was back in the early 90's.
I wish I knew then what I know now...:-(

[The Boz]

100% on the fixing. The jockeys in Maryland at the harness track used to meet pre race and decide a number of races in advance. It was in their interest because of the way they got paid. This was back in the early 90's.
I wish I knew then what I know now...:-(

It goes back ever further. At Penn National, which RED knows, it was a complete fix. There was more money to be made betting on the horses compared to winning races. There was always collusion between owners, trainers and jockeys and the players reading the Racing Form and betting were the suckers.

You have to remember in those days Horse Racing was huge and the only game in PA. Nightly crowds on a weeknight measured in the thousands. And the simulcast rooms in AC were busy.

Anyways, I do remember a scandal after a few were charged with fixing but it was almost covered up with only a few jockeys and trainers banned from PA tracks. The true scam was far larger.

[coach belly]

The difference is moneyline sportsbets are calculated at the time of the wager, rather than includuing the money AFTER the wager. The question remains, why the difference?

ThatDonGuy explained it over on WOV...if the point spread or moneyline could change for your wager after the wager was made, enough of a move could change a winning bet into a losing bet.

That can't happen with the horses, the odds can change, but the bet can't change from a winner into a loser.

[accountinquestion]

I probably should have used a moneyline sportsbet as my example rather than the Eagles +7.5 (where vig comes into play). Let's change the example to a bet on Eagles at +280 when placed and it moves to +135 by game time.

Nobody would stand for that. Your wager is based on the odds at the time of the wager and those odds are based on what has been bet up until that point. I don't see why horseracing shouldn't be the same way. Why should wagers and the betting pool made after your wager effect your wager?

You really are a Fucking Idiot.
I don't understand how you can count Two Tables and make Millions of Dollars in Blackjack but you can't understand the difference between Sports Betting and Race Betting.

Well, it isn't that he didn't understand them, he just didn't know them. It appears he never really spent any time at a horse-track... it is a weird thing to be a pro-gambler of 10+ years and have these sort of thoughts, but whatever, if you just stick with BJ counting I guess thats what happens. Watching and betting on the horsies was something I've done a few times before the local track closed. Was always fun. Didn't know WTF I was doing, but I did learn paramutual pools.

[kewlJ]

I probably should have used a moneyline sportsbet as my example rather than the Eagles +7.5 (where vig comes into play). Let's change the example to a bet on Eagles at +280 when placed and it moves to +135 by game time.

Nobody would stand for that. Your wager is based on the odds at the time of the wager and those odds are based on what has been bet up until that point. I don't see why horseracing shouldn't be the same way. Why should wagers and the betting pool made after your wager effect your wager?

You really are a Fucking Idiot.
I don't understand how you can count Two Tables and make Millions of Dollars in Blackjack but you can't understand the difference between Sports Betting and Race Betting.

Well, it isn't that he didn't understand them, he just didn't know them. It appears he never really spent any time at a horse-track... it is a weird thing to be a pro-gambler of 10+ years and have these sort of thoughts, but whatever, if you just stick with BJ counting I guess thats what happens. Watching and betting on the horsies was something I've done a few times before the local track closed. Was always fun. Didn't know WTF I was doing, but I did learn paramutual pools.

First, I created this thread for a different purpose, but then decided not to bring that discussion here, but unfortunately you can't delete an original post, you have to post something, so I posted "delete".

Monet brought this discussion here, which I started on another forum. I know HOW horse racing works! I just was expressing an opinion that it is kind of weird that you are not locked into odds when you place your bet. There is NO other bet like that.

The comparison is what if they did that on sports? The bet you place, say Alabama -120, turns into Alabama -230. You probably wouldn't have bet it at that line. Same with horse racing. If the odds posted when you bet are 4-1, you should get 4-1. Ridiculous that you can bet a horse at 4-1 and end up with 6-5 odds, when you probably wouldn't have been interested in those odds.

It was just a topic of conversation (on another forum), not a declaration that I don't know how it works. Is there any other wager that a person makes, casinos games ect, where they make a wager at one odds and and receive much less odds later?

[coach belly]

Ridiculous that you can bet a horse at 4-1 and end up with 6-5 odds, when you probably wouldn't have been interested in those odds.

Early betting can skew the odds, when there's far less money in the pool.

Betting early on weaker horses would artificially raise the odds of the stronger horses.

If bettors could manipulate the odds like that, they would lock strong horses in at long prices and crush the makers.

[redietz]

I probably should have used a moneyline sportsbet as my example rather than the Eagles +7.5 (where vig comes into play). Let's change the example to a bet on Eagles at +280 when placed and it moves to +135 by game time.

Nobody would stand for that. Your wager is based on the odds at the time of the wager and those odds are based on what has been bet up until that point. I don't see why horseracing shouldn't be the same way. Why should wagers and the betting pool made after your wager effect your wager?

You really are a Fucking Idiot.
I don't understand how you can count Two Tables and make Millions of Dollars in Blackjack but you can't understand the difference between Sports Betting and Race Betting.

Well, it isn't that he didn't understand them, he just didn't know them. It appears he never really spent any time at a horse-track... it is a weird thing to be a pro-gambler of 10+ years and have these sort of thoughts, but whatever, if you just stick with BJ counting I guess thats what happens. Watching and betting on the horsies was something I've done a few times before the local track closed. Was always fun. Didn't know WTF I was doing, but I did learn paramutual pools.

There's no reason for kewlJ to be familiar with pari-mutuel odds or horse racing. They're outside his area of expertise. He's not some degenerate who thinks he can conquer all aspects of something called "gambling." That kind of arrogance is for addicts and idiots.

[Keystone]

This has become more of an issue in the last few years. Your horse could be 5-1 when the race goes off, but will click down to 7/2 once the race has already started and the final clicks have been tallied up. Very frustrating but it happens when you have whales betting online and wait until the final possible minute to jam their bet in....on the flip side, you sometimes can bet a horse at 3-1 and have it go up to 4-1 or 9/2 after the race starts also

[regnis]

Coach--includes on track and off track but not foreign books (and some local illegal books)that don't participate in the pool. For those, there are caps on the win so they don't get buried.

[coach belly]

Coach--includes on track and off track but not foreign books (and some local illegal books)that don't participate in the pool.

How about US brick & mortar and online sports books?

Is their handle all included into the pool?

[regnis]

Coach--includes on track and off track but not foreign books (and some local illegal books)that don't participate in the pool.

How about US brick & mortar and online sports books?

Is their handle all included into the pool?

I think all of the casinos have now gone to parimutuel because they no longer want any risk. All of your major online go into the parimutuel pool. There will always be a few foreign or illegal that book the bets rather than just funnel them through. But they won't take big wagers and they cap the payoffs.

[coach belly]

How about US brick & mortar and online sports books?

Is their handle all included into the pool?

I think all of the casinos have now gone to parimutuel because they no longer want any risk. All of your major online go into the parimutuel pool.

Is all of that action reflected on the tote boards at the track?

[redietz]

Regnis -- I wrote the thing above while you were posting, so if I mucked it up, sorry. I defer to regnis on all things horse racing.

And regnis, my girlfriend was a regular at Sport of Kings. That was her hangout. She still refers to it fondly. I probably went in there twice in my life, and I remember almost nothing about it.

[regnis]

Regnis -- I wrote the thing above while you were posting, so if I mucked it up, sorry. I defer to regnis on all things horse racing.

And regnis, my girlfriend was a regular at Sport of Kings. That was her hangout. She still refers to it fondly. I probably went in there twice in my life, and I remember almost nothing about it.

She's probably the one that rejected my advances-lol. Not many females at that time.