Perhaps I should go back to plain, old Jacks or Better?

[Alan Mendelson]

Jacks or Better was the first video poker game I played. Later it was double double bonus and after that Deuces, Super Aces Bonus, Royal Aces Bonus even a game that is deuces wild with a jack -- get those five cards and you get 10,000 coins. For about the last year I've been playing either bonus or Aces and Faces (like bonus) almost exclusively.

But after a "routine" session last night of about 2,000 hands I'm wondering if I should switch back from "bonus" (my recent game of choice) to "jacks or better"? Here's why:

Last night I did hit quads five times, but all of the quads on the bonus game were the "regular quads" that paid 125 coins -- none of the quads were the "bonus quads" with the bigger payouts.

125 coins for "regular quads" is the same with bonus and jacks-or-better. But by playing the 8/5 bonus game, I was giving up the extra pays that the 9/6 Jacks or Better have.

Bonus pays 99.2%, Jacks pays 99.6% -- that's what the books say.

What are your thoughts?

By the way, I used to play Jacks or Better exclusively until one day I kept drawing these wonder hands such as quad aces with a kicker, quad 2s, 3s, 4s, with kickers -- all while playing Jacks or Better. So I got the idea to switch to DDB. And you know what happened... I went days and days without seeing those wonder hands again.

It's funny how they come on games where they don't matter.

[Rob.Singer]

JoB is a loser's game that people who follow the likes of Jean Scott play because they think with 9/6 you get more slot club points. You can't win with it unless you either go on an unusual quad-hitting streak or you hit a royal flush.

[Alan Mendelson]

JoB is a loser's game that people who follow the likes of Jean Scott play because they think with 9/6 you get more slot club points. You can't win with it unless you either go on an unusual quad-hitting streak or you hit a royal flush.

Gee Rob, I don't find myself winning with Bonus poker either!!

[Rob.Singer]

At least you have something called OPPORTUNITY with BP. No sense in playing a game that doesn't.

[Will Player]

Normal BP is my only game now because I know my own strategy cold, and there is a lower volatility than in other bonus poker games that don't return 2 to 1 for two pair, such as ddb or sdb poker. I don't play the "bonus" poker that doesn't give 80 per coin to the quad aces, but gives 35 to all quads. The opportunity to hit a win goal with a low bankroll volatility exists with 8/5 bonus and even 7/5 bonus poker, mostly with the higher payouts for the various quad combinations. Was profitable all 2011 without a royal using this game and strategy. Since October, though, I have hit 3 royals at 2.50 and two at 5.00. The last one was saturday afternoon at palm springs. I now make no distinction between my play at indian or nevada style casinos, the money fluctuations in both seem fairly similar. Running my strategy as close to perfection is my top goal...where I gamble isn't. I don't like the 6/5 bonus though but usually that only exists at the quarter level. Since I vary my bets and denominations, that 6/5 paytable represents less than 20% of my bets overall roughly.

[Vegas Vic]

On Jan. 4 at Detroit's MGM, I hit a royal playing DDB, but even though it was early in my planned session, I cashed out for the day. On Jan. 12 at Detroit's Greektown, I started playing DDB and the game was not kind to me. The budget was going quickly (no quads), so I switched to 9/6 JOB, and my play was prolonged. I still couldn't hit a quad, but I did manage to hit another royal. Nothing wrong with playing 9/6 JOB. It kept me in the chair, and you can't hit royals if you're not in the chair.

[Alan Mendelson]

I like Vegas Vic's thinking here, and I tend to agree with it: It also seems to me that the only way to really "win" at video poker is to hit royals. If playing 9/6 JOB keeps you in the seat longer, at lower cost, so you can hit the royal why not play JOB??

I am "way behind" in where I should be for the number of royals -- and even though Im playing full pay Bonus and Aces/Faces (both 8/5 games) I'm way behind in $$ because of my lack of royals.

Even though my biggest $$ wins were playing DDB progressives I also ran through the most money the fastest playing DDB. Bonus poker (or aces and faces) has allowed me to get a lot more play for less cash outlay. But you really have to hit those bonus quads to make a difference playing Bonus or Aces and Faces.

And remember this: royals pay the same in any game.

Responses appreciated.

[Rob.Singer]

I've always found JoB to get boring faster than any other vp game when I used to play it as an AP. I also lost playing it for the most part.

Alan, you certainly are behind because the royals aren't coming as often as the math predicts they should on random machines, but you are no different than anyone else who hasn't been exceedingly lucky--and yes, that does include all those theory-quoting math geeks, so-called experts, and famous names. People on forums just THINK those people win because of how they present the game straight from the math books, but players really know better than to be influenced by that type of BS.

Back in the mid nineties I always found myself in the red, and I too fell far short of the number of royals the famous people told me I should see and that they WERE seeing all the time. That's one of the main reasons I looked elsewhere within my own mind....to find a way of consistently winning WITHOUT the need for royals. And because I found success, you can see why the other famous names and math people really do not want the details of what I've developed out there, or why the big mouths have always ran away from challenges I and even THEY made.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm just curious Rob, are there any of your "Special Plays" in Jacks or Better?? I didn't see them even mention when we did our videos (http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html) and I don't even recall you mentioning them. Is this because there are no "bonus hands" with JOB??

[Rob.Singer]

No because JoB is not a game in my strategy, just as FPDW or any variation of wild card games are not.

[Vegas Vic]

I like Vegas Vic's thinking here, and I tend to agree with it: It also seems to me that the only way to really "win" at video poker is to hit royals. If playing 9/6 JOB keeps you in the seat longer, at lower cost, so you can hit the royal why not play JOB??

I am "way behind" in where I should be for the number of royals -- and even though Im playing full pay Bonus and Aces/Faces (both 8/5 games) I'm way behind in $$ because of my lack of royals.

Even though my biggest $$ wins were playing DDB progressives I also ran through the most money the fastest playing DDB. Bonus poker (or aces and faces) has allowed me to get a lot more play for less cash outlay. But you really have to hit those bonus quads to make a difference playing Bonus or Aces and Faces.

And remember this: royals pay the same in any game.

Responses appreciated.

If I can find 8/5 bonus, this is my game of choice, and just as with 9/6 JOB, it's important that my money gets some mileage. I don't play nearly as much or at the levels as you or Rob, but 25 royals in about 7 1/2 years of playing VP might put me ahead of the curve.

[Rob.Singer]

These days I only play 25c to $2 because I retired from full-time play for profit. It's just entertainment now. If you get the royals as they're supposed to come or do better than that--and you get everything else as well--then any game is a good game. Back when I was an AP I used to chart my royals....until I saw how many I had (and I was always way behind the curve anyway) and how much I lost anyway. It's simply a matter of being at the right place at the right time.

[slingshot]

These days I only play 25c to $2 because I retired from full-time play for profit. It's just entertainment now. If you get the royals as they're supposed to come or do better than that--and you get everything else as well--then any game is a good game. Back when I was an AP I used to chart my royals....until I saw how many I had (and I was always way behind the curve anyway) and how much I lost anyway. It's simply a matter of being at the right place at the right time.

Now THAT, being at the right place at the right time, I can understand. My question is, since you have before indicated the GAME is important, could a GAME on the list selection of the screen be the ONE game-whether it be JOB, DW, Bonus,etc. be the one factor on that machine that produces the win?

[Rob.Singer]

It depends on where that game is. There's only a small chance it's in a hot cycle. If a person is partial to ddbp, I always try to educate them on the vast superiority of SDBP or TBP+. Don't confuse that 2nd game with the far inferior TDBP, which is only a game that potshot takers play and usually lose at because of its very high volatility.

[slingshot]

It depends on where that game is. There's only a small chance it's in a hot cycle. If a person is partial to ddbp, I always try to educate them on the vast superiority of SDBP or TBP+. Don't confuse that 2nd game with the far inferior TDBP, which is only a game that potshot takers play and usually lose at because of its very high volatility.

But boy, when it DOES hit! But it is fun to break the monotony and give it a shot.