Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 106

Thread: Following Your Rules

  1. #1
    I believe this is the most important aspect of profitability. Lots of discussion here about strategy. I believe that there a nearly infinite ways to play these games, many ways will work, however, most people fail because they to not follow their strategy especially in the area of money management. I am learning to follow my method and working hard on this process.

    I am curious if anyone wants to relate their views on this and what kinds of things they have done in order to follow their plan more closely. From the normal to the bizarre, is anyone else actually making a plan on how to follow their plan? If so, what specific things are you doing that are helping you? What has not worked? ETC.

  2. #2
    I'll share one point: I've personally advised & trained hundreds of players at machines over the years. I always stress DISCIPLINE as the most difficult trait to master in becoming a winning player. Not just on strategy, cashing out, making the special plays as required, and following their win or loss goals to the letter....but also in having the discipline to never hand over meaningless tips on handpays or to cashiers, and staying away from casino credit, check cashing, and ATM's. I teach that since casinos use an entire arsenal of tools used solely to take as much of the player's money as possible, players should also use every tool available to THEM as an equalizer.

    The problem is, as we've seen right here among other places, most players are too weak to follow the only advice they'll ever get in order to turn their results around. In my teaching sessions, I've seen players become too intoxicated by a big hit that they didn't want to stop playing after reaching their win goals, I've seen many STILL go to the ATM's in the casinos, there's some stupid enough that they will not switch machines when I detect they're in a cold cycle and they just can't get themselves to make the special plays that deviate from optimal play, and the #1 weakness....they just cannot stop themselves from being intimidated by the floor people on handpays to hand over some of it in the form of ridiculous & meaningless, wasteful tips.

  3. #3
    Thanks for that reply Mr. Singer, and by the way, two weeks ago I received a copy of The Undeniable Truth...and awesome book thanks for putting all of that in writing. I'm still reading and rereading it and applying the principles, obvious from my post.

    Realizing that lack of discipline in an difficult environment to have discipline (the casino) is the problem......my question still remains what are some of the ways that you readers on that skill. Discipline in different endeavors can be learned. Saying someone is "too weak" may be accurate and true for most players, and the casinos are happy to influence this. But, change in thinking and actions are necessary to overcome this weakness. So what have some of you, that are or were weak in this area, specifically done (as in work, training, personal tips) to become better at it. Not many make it to this stage, but for those that have or are moving forward like me, what have you done to improve this area. There is a lot more to it than just to tell yourself to follow your plan, as I am sure many of you can attest to. HOw have you trained yourself to get out at your predetermined numbers on the win side or the loss side? How have you learned to follow your plan.

  4. #4
    I think the question about "how to have discipline" or how to "keep the discipline" is really a factor of the personal goals of the player.

    I honestly believe there are players who don't really care about winning or making a profit and for them the concept of having any kind of discipline at all is totally foreign. There are the players who will go to a casino once or twice a year -- take a wad of cash with them -- and will play it all till nothing is left. You can't talk to these people about discipline or win goals because it's all or nothing for them.

    I think the concept of sticking to a win goal and having discipline is for players who play more often and actually consider the possibility that they might be able to make some kind of a profit. Or they are players that have gone bust (bankrupt0 before and realize now that they have to play differently in order to survive.

    Who doesn't have a win goal? Anybody playing a slot machine can't possibly have any kind of clue as to setting or keeping win goals.

    I think win goals are more likely to be set and followed by craps and blackjack players, as well as video poker players and live poker players. In fact, I think live poker players are probably the strictest when it comes to setting and keeping to win goals.

    I think anyone who has ever played a live cash game has picked themselves up from the table and left whenever they have doubled or tripled their buy-in. The concept is not foreign to cash game players -- in fact, it is what just about every cash player does. Because in live poker you are well aware that if you don't leave when you have a double up or a triple up, that the cards will turn and you will lose it all back.

    Only video poker players seem to think they will keep on winning because they consider they are playing with an edge. Well live poker players can also play with an edge but they are smart enough to know the luck of the game won't always be with them.

  5. #5
    I just was reading about your cold and eye problem. I hope everything is back to normal by now.

    Regardless what kind of player playing whatever kind of game, setting win and loss goals is very, very easy to do, and actually doing what is said is almost impossible on a consistent basis. The biggest obstacle I see is not when a player is losing--but when winning. Say a $200 win goal is set, and suddenly the player finds himself ahead by $235 after a quad. How easy that was, right? Well, now the confidence level is up to the roof and the player starts thinking "hey, I'll pump this baby up to being up $300 and then I'll quit". "It can't be THAT hard, right?"

    But overwhelmingly it is, and every player knows that--except that the message gets blocked by probably only something someone like Frank and his troup of Dr.'s & experts could properly describe.

    I used to be like this player up until I took complete control of how I play.And it is exactly how every self-proclaimed "AP" plays as they try to justify their compulsive play with the "I'm playing with a theoretical edge" nonsense. Everyone, please learn from my experience.

  6. #6
    Rob when you surpass your win goal do you employ the technique of increasing your "stops"?

    For example what you wrote above: your win goal was $200 but you are now at $235 do you play again but raise your "stop" to $220?

  7. #7
    A win goal is a won goal. $200 minimum is $200 minimum. I never change it based on how much any session win or loss has been. To do so would instantly defeat the concept of discipline, it would usually exemplify uncontrolled greed, and it would put the player right back into the unforgiving hands of the casino.

  8. #8
    I understand what you are saying Rob, but let me raise this question:

    Your win goal is $200 and you hit a $4,000 royal which gives you now $4,195 in credits on your machine. Do you absolutely stop at that point, OR, do you take $400 of your $4,195 (taking the rest home in a check) and play that $400 with a new win goal of $450 or $500?? After all Rob, you might be in a "hot cycle."

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I understand what you are saying Rob, but let me raise this question:

    Your win goal is $200 and you hit a $4,000 royal which gives you now $4,195 in credits on your machine. Do you absolutely stop at that point, OR, do you take $400 of your $4,195 (taking the rest home in a check) and play that $400 with a new win goal of $450 or $500?? After all Rob, you might be in a "hot cycle."
    Ha! Ha! I know the answer already. I'm as guilty as the next. LOL.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I understand what you are saying Rob, but let me raise this question:

    Your win goal is $200 and you hit a $4,000 royal which gives you now $4,195 in credits on your machine. Do you absolutely stop at that point, OR, do you take $400 of your $4,195 (taking the rest home in a check) and play that $400 with a new win goal of $450 or $500?? After all Rob, you might be in a "hot cycle."
    First of all, because royals are so scarce & improbable and because my play strategies do not ever need them to have a winning session, a rule I've always had is to immediately leave until a new day comes along where you can start all over again. Royals do not in themselves constitute a true hot cycle, and only an undisciplined & greedy player would ever keep playing after hitting one. What could they possibly expect to see that would be more exciting and profitable than that? And it is only serious problem gamblers who do what the casinos expect and want, and go up in denomination when they are ill-prepared to take such foolish pot shots.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    First of all, because royals are so scarce & improbable and because my play strategies do not ever need them to have a winning session, a rule I've always had is to immediately leave until a new day comes along where you can start all over again. Royals do not in themselves constitute a true hot cycle, and only an undisciplined & greedy player would ever keep playing after hitting one. What could they possibly expect to see that would be more exciting and profitable than that?
    That's very ironic coming from you Rob. Didn't you write in your book that you've hit two royals in a row? Why didn't you quit after the first one?

  12. #12
    Yes I wrote about that happening in my book. But what you're doing is called selective reading, and that can only be because you struggle and lose to the demons you bring with you when you play vp--you know, the ones that just won't allow you to quit?

    Had you read in either the introduction or first chapter, you'd have seen where I was on a month long trip around Nevada, and I would not be playing my strategy or play for profit on any of it because the sole purpose was to gather information to write the book. I simply went to as many of the state's casinos as I could fit in, and I played whenever I chose to without any goals.

    Please be more thorough and accurate next time.

  13. #13
    Rob, make up your mind: either you have rules and stick to them or you don't. :-)

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    First of all, because royals are so scarce & improbable and because my play strategies do not ever need them to have a winning session, a rule I've always had is to immediately leave until a new day comes along where you can start all over again.
    What are the rules for "leaving"? Can one "leave" and go to Starbucks for a half hour and then play again? ... Is the "leave" requirement "leave the property and go home"? Do I have to go home or can I go to Burger King? What is the definition of "a new day"? Can I "leave" at 11:55 p.m. , check the scores on ESPN at midnight, and resume playing at 12:10 a.m. "on a new day"? How much passage of time must take place before "a new day" appears on my calendar? If I cash out, move one seat over, does this qualify as "starting all over again"? Such nebulous rules tend to support the contention that you're making this up as you go along.

  15. #15
    Seems like I remember words to the effect of "go see a movie, enjoy a meal,etc. I think the idea is not to get caught up in the casino action. But for me it would be go home because I don't have the discipline or mental strength to go through all that planning another hour or two. For me, winning is tiring.

  16. #16
    The way Rob originally explained the rule of "leaving" to me was simply this: he would reach his win goal and go home to enjoy the money and the feeling of leaving with a win.

    I think that makes sense. If you are going to your room or going to dinner and then playing again on that trip you are not leaving after a win goal.

    I think what defines the concept is going home with the money.

    I know that the APers argue that playing video poker is just one long, continuous session that never ends. Well, let them see it that way. I don't.

  17. #17
    There's two different scenarios in effect here. Vic brings up what I call the "Fezzik" argument, where he broadcast how I "go out and tag the building" before starting a new session. And of course, that stupidity resulted in him and the Anthony Curtis gang of AP's being totally humiliated by my next two Gaming Today articles as I publicly challenged them to a bet which they quickly ran away from with tails tucked firmly underneath. It was as sweet a victory as one has ever had in video poker.

    But what Vic & Fezzik talk about is due to a gross misrepresentation of the facts born out of an ignorance about my SPS . This strategy required that upon attaining at least a $2500 win goal, I'd immediately get in my car and drive home regardless of anything else. I would not play again until the following week where I'd begin at the lowest denomination once again. It is the true essence of why video poker as played by the SPS is not just one long term event. Sure I could have started another session after going to a movie or taking a nap. But that't got nothing to do with how and why SPS was developed, because a part of it requires enjoying the win for at least a week.

    Now my other strategies of RTT & ARTT, with their more frequent and allowed lower denomination and subsequently lower win goals, can be played as many times on a casino visit or trip as one can handle without fatigue.

  18. #18
    Thanks for clarifying that. Sometimes I give in to my wife's wishes and play the penny machines-she loves all the video action. BTW, I have played and progressed on these gizmos and much to her screaming delight, hit a big hand on $2. She's much better at leaving than me-she already had the money spent. LOL.

  19. #19
    Rob, now I think you should clarify some things:

    Why is it you have different systems and not one system? Which system is best? How can one system have conflicting rules with another system?

  20. #20
    I thought you already knew from what I told you in person? There are five Singer winning play strategies that I developed and played for profit professionally for my 12 year career: SPS, RTT, ARTT, Five-Play, & Multi-Strike. The most frequent was SPS, followed by ARTT, RTT, Five-Play then Multi-Strike. There were also times, like when I set out for a month to write my book, or when I'd just sit at a bar chatting with friends or watching games etc., where I would just play quarters or sometime a little higher like any other Joe for entertainment. At these relatively very few times there were no rules--basically how I play these days in retirement.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •