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Thread: Hustler drops $900+ chasing bonus on Farmville

  1. #1
    $3.75 Bet: 27 For the Yellow and decent numbers on Green & Blue. I walked by like it didn’t exist. This hustler could not get into the chair fast enough.

    Guy was speed stopping his spins (we used call them “Turbo Heads” like they are on speed in this casino way before the MH’s).

    After dropping $900+, he gets 8 pumpkins (2 each on 4 reels) on the screen and gets back $360 on the bonus round.

    He obviously didn’t get the memo the casino changed “the chip” or got “the software update”.

    I posted FarmVille was likely nerfed back in June.

  2. #2
    This is one of the biggest problem playing bonus slots: The game gets nerfed (and not knowing it got nerfed).

    When you research the internet and various websites or YouTube videos, you get to learn how to beat the game. What these websites and videos don’t tell you is when a game gets nerfed.

    I tell people: Be the first to play bonus slots where information asymmetry is the greatest and you are the one eye king in the land of the blind. Then I tell people be the first to pull the ripcord when the game gets nerfed.

    I win on average 24 out of 25 sessions (each session being 4 to 6 hours win or lose). That losing session is almost always due to a bonus machine getting nerfed - which is another example of information asymmetry. When you are playing bonus machines where you get ROIC of 10% to 15% to as much as 100%+, it’s hard not to grow your ticket for the night.

    I have always stated there are two main problems for a bonus hustler with information asymmetry being the worse one. Information asymmetry means the casino, slot manufacturers, etc knows something you don’t. I learned not to take it personally when a bonus slot gets nerfed and just move on.

    Trust me, I know the feeling: It SUCKS that I can no longer make the same amount of money like I did before from that game. And it SUCKS to be on a constant treadmill of finding the next game that pay as well as the one I wished didn’t get nerfed.

    The person shoving $100 bills into Farmville never suspected the game got nerfed. Some people will learn the hard way. Then there are some people in DENIAL and just chalk up the experience to being UNLUCKY and blaming variance. Yeah, whatever floats your boat.

    To be clear: I lose a lot of money prospecting new machines and I regularly go back to a casino to DELIBERATELY lose $200 to $300 for camouflage purposes. But if I am in a casino to make money, I fully expect to walk out of the casino with more money than I walked in if there are plays to be found and 24 out 25 session win rate is my average. If there are no plays, then it’s hands in my pockets and I drive to the next casino. I can’t control the market environment (competition, Yahoos / Degens leaving plays, etc), but I control making wagers unless I get at least a certain ROIC. I can definitely control myself from playing slots that got nerfed.

  3. #3
    Here is an example of stochastic calculus.

    Assume a mean of Mu
    Assume a standard deviation of Sigma
    Assume Brownian Motion.

    Your Mu is your drift and if your Mu is say 15% ROIC, you will never play Bonus Slots using brute force again.

    I am a tight scavenger; I’ve been called a snob when it comes to bonus hustling, but the truth is I am a CE based hustler who got converted a long time ago and love the religion of 15% ROIC.

    I don’t play high variance crap.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Ex-AP View Post
    $3.75 Bet: 27 For the Yellow and decent numbers on Green & Blue. I walked by like it didn’t exist. This hustler could not get into the chair fast enough.

    Guy was speed stopping his spins (we used call them “Turbo Heads” like they are on speed in this casino way before the MH’s).

    After dropping $900+, he gets 8 pumpkins (2 each on 4 reels) on the screen and gets back $360 on the bonus round.

    He obviously didn’t get the memo the casino changed “the chip” or got “the software update”.

    I posted FarmVille was likely nerfed back in June.
    Common hustlers, also ignorant degenerates. All explained, lower slot return, no convoluted story needed, no new terms needed.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Ex-AP View Post
    $3.75 Bet: 27 For the Yellow and decent numbers on Green & Blue. I walked by like it didn’t exist. This hustler could not get into the chair fast enough.

    Guy was speed stopping his spins (we used call them “Turbo Heads” like they are on speed in this casino way before the MH’s).

    After dropping $900+, he gets 8 pumpkins (2 each on 4 reels) on the screen and gets back $360 on the bonus round.

    He obviously didn’t get the memo the casino changed “the chip” or got “the software update”.

    I posted FarmVille was likely nerfed back in June.
    With hundreds of machines being "nerfed" in hundreds of locations has anyone ever seen slot techs on the machines with the mother boards pulled out and they are actually changing the chips? And, in the commercial jurisdictions, with a Gaming Agent monitoring the chip change?

    For myself I haven't seen anything like that. But with so many machines being changed there is bound to be someone that has seen a chip change.
    Robert Earl Dietz is not an expert on coronavirus. He actually better fits the definition of a fraud on coronavirus.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Ex-AP View Post
    $3.75 Bet: 27 For the Yellow and decent numbers on Green & Blue. I walked by like it didn’t exist. This hustler could not get into the chair fast enough.

    Guy was speed stopping his spins (we used call them “Turbo Heads” like they are on speed in this casino way before the MH’s).

    After dropping $900+, he gets 8 pumpkins (2 each on 4 reels) on the screen and gets back $360 on the bonus round.

    He obviously didn’t get the memo the casino changed “the chip” or got “the software update”.

    I posted FarmVille was likely nerfed back in June.
    With hundreds of machines being "nerfed" in hundreds of locations has anyone ever seen slot techs on the machines with the mother boards pulled out and they are actually changing the chips? And, in the commercial jurisdictions, with a Gaming Agent monitoring the chip change?

    For myself I haven't seen anything like that. But with so many machines being changed there is bound to be someone that has seen a chip change.
    They've been able to change slot percentages on the fly, for several years now. No chip change necessary anymore. Random slot tech/attendant could change at will, if willing to take the risk.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Ex-AP View Post
    $3.75 Bet: 27 For the Yellow and decent numbers on Green & Blue. I walked by like it didn’t exist. This hustler could not get into the chair fast enough.

    Guy was speed stopping his spins (we used call them “Turbo Heads” like they are on speed in this casino way before the MH’s).

    After dropping $900+, he gets 8 pumpkins (2 each on 4 reels) on the screen and gets back $360 on the bonus round.

    He obviously didn’t get the memo the casino changed “the chip” or got “the software update”.

    I posted FarmVille was likely nerfed back in June.
    With hundreds of machines being "nerfed" in hundreds of locations has anyone ever seen slot techs on the machines with the mother boards pulled out and they are actually changing the chips? And, in the commercial jurisdictions, with a Gaming Agent monitoring the chip change?

    For myself I haven't seen anything like that. But with so many machines being changed there is bound to be someone that has seen a chip change.
    amateur rebuttal, you need out,

  8. #8
    The changes that xap is suggesting seem to be more than just a percentage payback. He is talking about fundamentally changing how the game performs and derives the payback. That would require more than a setup selection by a tech.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    The changes that xap is suggesting seem to be more than just a percentage payback. He is talking about fundamentally changing how the game performs and derives the payback. That would require more than a setup selection by a tech.
    Yes, he is talking about changing the game to a completely different configuration. Wouldn't that require a chip change?

    A chip change cannot be done on the fly in the commercial jurisdictions. You have to apply to Gaming, pay a fee, and have a Gaming Agent present, to change a chip. And the chip is placed in the machine with a seal.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 09-14-2020 at 04:06 AM.
    Robert Earl Dietz is not an expert on coronavirus. He actually better fits the definition of a fraud on coronavirus.

  10. #10
    Funny, fellow ap of mine asked a friendly slot technician about this topic last night. Basic answer was they haven't been altering any games. Basically nothing like that can be done without that state's lottery approval. They don't even know what game will be installed tomorrow on new cabinets. This slot tech then went on to tell us about how they are reorganizing cabinets for Covid, what areas of machines will be turned off for rearranging, and for how long. Basically this tech wasn't hiding anything.

  11. #11
    I doubt many places require changing out chips at this point, at least not on modern machines like the ones that would be "nerfed". The software is likely upgraded like anything else. Perhaps they have a USB stick. The manfacturer can use cryptography to "sign" the executable which would be controlled by the manufacturer. This would prevent any unauthorized version of the software to ever be created.

    It seems a bit silly to have eeproms or whatever and swap them out. Embedded systems have relied on 'flashing' for probably a decade now.

    Don't claim to be an expert, but I'd be surprised as fuck to ever see a chip swapped out on one of these nerf situations.
    Grandpa Newell is the GOAT

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I doubt many places require changing out chips at this point, at least not on modern machines like the ones that would be "nerfed". The software is likely upgraded like anything else. Perhaps they have a USB stick. The manfacturer can use cryptography to "sign" the executable which would be controlled by the manufacturer. This would prevent any unauthorized version of the software to ever be created.

    It seems a bit silly to have eeproms or whatever and swap them out. Embedded systems have relied on 'flashing' for probably a decade now.

    Don't claim to be an expert, but I'd be surprised as fuck to ever see a chip swapped out on one of these nerf situations.
    But that doesn't make any sense. Why would they set a game up so that a knowledgeable player can beat the game but have a "nerfed" version sitting at the ready to pounce on "that same unwary player." What would they think they are accomplishing?

    If a knowledgeable player has the ability to tell a new game can be beaten he has the ability to tell that a new tighter version has been introduced and quit playing or tighten up.

    I don't think the game designer is thinking "I'm going to set this game up where the hustlers make a bunch of money then I'm going to change the configuration and bushwhack them so they lose money." The hustlers are going to figure it out. If they could figure out the first version they can figure out the second version. They are not going to dump a bunch of money.

    If you see a hustler continue to dump money on a "nerfed" game then I take exception to anyone calling that person a hustler in the first place. If they don't have enough sense to quit playing a game they can't beat they are a ploppie, not a hustler.

    Take a game like Harley-Davidson which is a revenue shared game that has a payback in the 87% range. The house is making about 13% on the action. The ploppies are losing bigtime on the game, but a few hustlers that will only play when they find high numbers, and that occurs only a very small percentage of the time. So the house is making good money on the game. Why would they change anything because of a few knowledgeable players that play the game sparingly? It doesn't make sense to change anything on a game holding 13%. If they cut the payback the ploppies will lose even more money. The one thing ploppies do notice is how fast their money is disappearing and will quit playing the game. So nobody is playing the game anymore.

    If they "nerf" a game it's after they see what's going on, not before. That means they have to reconfigure the game on a new chip.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 09-15-2020 at 07:12 PM.
    Robert Earl Dietz is not an expert on coronavirus. He actually better fits the definition of a fraud on coronavirus.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I doubt many places require changing out chips at this point, at least not on modern machines like the ones that would be "nerfed". The software is likely upgraded like anything else. Perhaps they have a USB stick. The manfacturer can use cryptography to "sign" the executable which would be controlled by the manufacturer. This would prevent any unauthorized version of the software to ever be created.

    It seems a bit silly to have eeproms or whatever and swap them out. Embedded systems have relied on 'flashing' for probably a decade now.

    Don't claim to be an expert, but I'd be surprised as fuck to ever see a chip swapped out on one of these nerf situations.
    But that doesn't make any sense. Why would they set a game up so that a knowledgeable player can beat the game but have a "nerfed" version sitting at the ready to pounce on "that same unwary player." What would they think they are accomplishing?

    If a knowledgeable player has the ability to tell a new game can be beaten he has the ability to tell that a new tighter version has been introduced and quit playing or tighten up.

    I don't think the game designer is thinking "I'm going to set this game up where the hustlers make a bunch of money then I'm going to change the configuration and bushwhack them so they lose money." The hustlers are going to figure it out. If they could figure out the first version they can figure out the second version. They are not going to dump a bunch of money.

    If you see a hustler continue to dump money on a "nerfed" game then I take exception to anyone calling that person a hustler in the first place. If they don't have enough sense to quit playing a game they can't beat they are a ploppie, not a hustler.

    Take a game like Harley-Davidson which is a revenue shared game that has a payback in the 87% range. The house is making about 13% on the action. The ploppies are losing bigtime on the game, but a few hustlers that will only play when they find high numbers, and that occurs only a very small percentage of the time. So the house is making good money on the game. Why would they change anything because of a few knowledgeable players that play the game sparingly? It doesn't make sense to change anything on a game holding 13%. If they cut the payback the ploppies will lose even more money. The one thing ploppies do notice is how fast their money is disappearing and will quit playing the game. So nobody is playing the game anymore.

    If they "nerf" a game it's after they see what's going on, not before. That means they have to reconfigure the game on a new chip.
    My only point is that I seriously seriously doubt they swap out a chip anymore on these newer computers (slot machines). Tech has just went a different direction. Now if we're talking about a videopoker machine that'd be different but all these bonus machines that are modern etc. It is far more likely they are either updated remotely over the network or via a USB flash drive. It is a minor point in the scheme of things.

    I'm not saying they can and will change it on players, only the mechanism that which they do it with is unlikely a physical chip that is swapped out. I mean it is possible due to some archaic gaming regulations.. I wouldn't know.

    As far as mr AP knowing what he is talking about in regarding to the nerfs - I also have 0 clue on that but am happy to see both MC and mr AP argue it out. MC has a proven background. APs posts are good too, I just am not sure if I can believe it. He uses a lot of terminology and hocus pocus when he talks, but he also says some very interesting stuff.
    Grandpa Newell is the GOAT

  14. #14
    I heard that Ellen The Slot was GREAT like the very first week, constantly giving $300 bonuses on $1.50 bets(GREAT)) but then after that GREAT first week, suddenly turned to shit and never came back and then it was pulled off the Market for good. And this was pulled BEFORE the current Ellen Controversy, this was pulled when Ellen was still widely loved. This Slot wouldn't have lasted two days during the Current Ellen Controversy.

  15. #15
    Ploppie talk: "I used to hit a lot of 4 of a kinds on that video poker game but not anymore. Nowadays, it's like once in a blue moon I get a 4 of a kind. They've done something to the game."

    I've been hearing this kind of ploppie talk ever since I've been in the casinos. Do you really think they "nerfed it" so you hit less 4 of a kinds? They would have to change it from random to non-random to do that which would be against the law. If they think the game is paying out to much they chop the payscale.

    You hear the same kind of ploppie talk about the slots. "They used to pay! Now they don't." So anytime you hear someone talking about "nerfing" a game you have to take it with a grain of salt.
    Robert Earl Dietz is not an expert on coronavirus. He actually better fits the definition of a fraud on coronavirus.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I doubt many places require changing out chips at this point, at least not on modern machines like the ones that would be "nerfed". The software is likely upgraded like anything else. Perhaps they have a USB stick. The manfacturer can use cryptography to "sign" the executable which would be controlled by the manufacturer. This would prevent any unauthorized version of the software to ever be created.

    It seems a bit silly to have eeproms or whatever and swap them out. Embedded systems have relied on 'flashing' for probably a decade now.

    Don't claim to be an expert, but I'd be surprised as fuck to ever see a chip swapped out on one of these nerf situations.
    But that doesn't make any sense. Why would they set a game up so that a knowledgeable player can beat the game but have a "nerfed" version sitting at the ready to pounce on "that same unwary player." What would they think they are accomplishing?

    If a knowledgeable player has the ability to tell a new game can be beaten he has the ability to tell that a new tighter version has been introduced and quit playing or tighten up.

    I don't think the game designer is thinking "I'm going to set this game up where the hustlers make a bunch of money then I'm going to change the configuration and bushwhack them so they lose money." The hustlers are going to figure it out. If they could figure out the first version they can figure out the second version. They are not going to dump a bunch of money.

    If you see a hustler continue to dump money on a "nerfed" game then I take exception to anyone calling that person a hustler in the first place. If they don't have enough sense to quit playing a game they can't beat they are a ploppie, not a hustler.

    Take a game like Harley-Davidson which is a revenue shared game that has a payback in the 87% range. The house is making about 13% on the action. The ploppies are losing bigtime on the game, but a few hustlers that will only play when they find high numbers, and that occurs only a very small percentage of the time. So the house is making good money on the game. Why would they change anything because of a few knowledgeable players that play the game sparingly? It doesn't make sense to change anything on a game holding 13%. If they cut the payback the ploppies will lose even more money. The one thing ploppies do notice is how fast their money is disappearing and will quit playing the game. So nobody is playing the game anymore.

    If they "nerf" a game it's after they see what's going on, not before. That means they have to reconfigure the game on a new chip.
    My only point is that I seriously seriously doubt they swap out a chip anymore on these newer computers (slot machines). Tech has just went a different direction. Now if we're talking about a videopoker machine that'd be different but all these bonus machines that are modern etc. It is far more likely they are either updated remotely over the network or via a USB flash drive. It is a minor point in the scheme of things.

    I'm not saying they can and will change it on players, only the mechanism that which they do it with is unlikely a physical chip that is swapped out. I mean it is possible due to some archaic gaming regulations.. I wouldn't know.

    As far as mr AP knowing what he is talking about in regarding to the nerfs - I also have 0 clue on that but am happy to see both MC and mr AP argue it out. MC has a proven background. APs posts are good too, I just am not sure if I can believe it. He uses a lot of terminology and hocus pocus when he talks, but he also says some very interesting stuff.
    Gaming regulations have to be overcome. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think you can change the configuration of a chip while it is in the machine. All games and configurtions have to be approved by gaming. They run tests on the chips to insure payback and randomess. The chips have to be delivered to Gaming for these tests before they can be placed in a machine.
    Robert Earl Dietz is not an expert on coronavirus. He actually better fits the definition of a fraud on coronavirus.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    But that doesn't make any sense. Why would they set a game up so that a knowledgeable player can beat the game but have a "nerfed" version sitting at the ready to pounce on "that same unwary player." What would they think they are accomplishing?

    If a knowledgeable player has the ability to tell a new game can be beaten he has the ability to tell that a new tighter version has been introduced and quit playing or tighten up.

    I don't think the game designer is thinking "I'm going to set this game up where the hustlers make a bunch of money then I'm going to change the configuration and bushwhack them so they lose money." The hustlers are going to figure it out. If they could figure out the first version they can figure out the second version. They are not going to dump a bunch of money.

    If you see a hustler continue to dump money on a "nerfed" game then I take exception to anyone calling that person a hustler in the first place. If they don't have enough sense to quit playing a game they can't beat they are a ploppie, not a hustler.

    Take a game like Harley-Davidson which is a revenue shared game that has a payback in the 87% range. The house is making about 13% on the action. The ploppies are losing bigtime on the game, but a few hustlers that will only play when they find high numbers, and that occurs only a very small percentage of the time. So the house is making good money on the game. Why would they change anything because of a few knowledgeable players that play the game sparingly? It doesn't make sense to change anything on a game holding 13%. If they cut the payback the ploppies will lose even more money. The one thing ploppies do notice is how fast their money is disappearing and will quit playing the game. So nobody is playing the game anymore.

    If they "nerf" a game it's after they see what's going on, not before. That means they have to reconfigure the game on a new chip.
    My only point is that I seriously seriously doubt they swap out a chip anymore on these newer computers (slot machines). Tech has just went a different direction. Now if we're talking about a videopoker machine that'd be different but all these bonus machines that are modern etc. It is far more likely they are either updated remotely over the network or via a USB flash drive. It is a minor point in the scheme of things.

    I'm not saying they can and will change it on players, only the mechanism that which they do it with is unlikely a physical chip that is swapped out. I mean it is possible due to some archaic gaming regulations.. I wouldn't know.

    As far as mr AP knowing what he is talking about in regarding to the nerfs - I also have 0 clue on that but am happy to see both MC and mr AP argue it out. MC has a proven background. APs posts are good too, I just am not sure if I can believe it. He uses a lot of terminology and hocus pocus when he talks, but he also says some very interesting stuff.
    Gaming regulations have to be overcome. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think you can change the configuration of a chip while it is in the machine. All games and configurtions have to be approved by gaming. They run tests on the chips to insure payback and randomess. The chips have to be delivered to Gaming for these tests before they can be placed in a machine.
    I agree gaming regulations have to be overcome but that and existing machines is the only reason they'd swap out chips. There are things like signatures produced from cryptography and things that can be verified to ensure the version of the code on the machine is the same one as one that has been approved. People have "Flashed" motherboards for 10-20 years now. Used to use a floppy disk, now it is always a usb drive. The extra hardware to read a chip and such is pretty old tech. I'd be very very surprised if IGT machines etc use EEPROM chips or whatever anymore.

    I have no first hand knowledge, I just know computers (used to know a lot at least) and I'm pretty sure slot machines are fairly standard computers these day and not particularly special hardware. Gaming commissions also vary a ton but I'd imagine most upgrades are done with a usb stick being plugged into the machine/pc and it being put in some update mode. It then downloads the code and reflashes the program. Restart and there is your change.

    I think if I was a really dedicated machine AP I might investigate becoming a slot tech for awhile. Probably too difficult.
    Grandpa Newell is the GOAT

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    I doubt many places require changing out chips at this point, at least not on modern machines like the ones that would be "nerfed". The software is likely upgraded like anything else. Perhaps they have a USB stick. The manfacturer can use cryptography to "sign" the executable which would be controlled by the manufacturer. This would prevent any unauthorized version of the software to ever be created.

    It seems a bit silly to have eeproms or whatever and swap them out. Embedded systems have relied on 'flashing' for probably a decade now.

    Don't claim to be an expert, but I'd be surprised as fuck to ever see a chip swapped out on one of these nerf situations.
    But that doesn't make any sense. Why would they set a game up so that a knowledgeable player can beat the game but have a "nerfed" version sitting at the ready to pounce on "that same unwary player." What would they think they are accomplishing?

    If a knowledgeable player has the ability to tell a new game can be beaten he has the ability to tell that a new tighter version has been introduced and quit playing or tighten up.

    I don't think the game designer is thinking "I'm going to set this game up where the hustlers make a bunch of money then I'm going to change the configuration and bushwhack them so they lose money." The hustlers are going to figure it out. If they could figure out the first version they can figure out the second version. They are not going to dump a bunch of money.

    If you see a hustler continue to dump money on a "nerfed" game then I take exception to anyone calling that person a hustler in the first place. If they don't have enough sense to quit playing a game they can't beat they are a ploppie, not a hustler.

    Take a game like Harley-Davidson which is a revenue shared game that has a payback in the 87% range. The house is making about 13% on the action. The ploppies are losing bigtime on the game, but a few hustlers that will only play when they find high numbers, and that occurs only a very small percentage of the time. So the house is making good money on the game. Why would they change anything because of a few knowledgeable players that play the game sparingly? It doesn't make sense to change anything on a game holding 13%. If they cut the payback the ploppies will lose even more money. The one thing ploppies do notice is how fast their money is disappearing and will quit playing the game. So nobody is playing the game anymore.

    If they "nerf" a game it's after they see what's going on, not before. That means they have to reconfigure the game on a new chip.
    Exactly!

  19. #19
    What's so stupid about the original post in this thread is the game we're talking about is Farmville. Anyone who plays this game regularly knows that there is vast fluctuation in the results of the bonus rounds. Plus the value is stored in multiple places. Even if you take a game like this at 105% or better you're not even going to finish positive in sessions 50% of the time.
    Most machine hustlers I see are just running around playing others hand me down numbers. You can tell the amateurs when they start talking about FVs, Hex, BDD, etc. The ones that know what they're doing are constantly compiling info from their play to have a greater understanding of these types of games.
    I do find all the gay lingo and terminology from the pikers humorous though....LOL
    #NERFTARDS
    Last edited by MaxPen; 09-16-2020 at 06:14 PM.

  20. #20
    Let's see if Ex-AP would like to answer this simple question.

    What exactly did the gamemaker change to "nerf" the game? If you can definitively say the game has been structurally changed then you should know what about it was changed. By the way, you don't need Stochastic Calculus to answer the question. None of this shit is rocket science. So hold the gobbledy-goop. You can answer the question in less than 3 sentences. If it were true I could answer it in less than 2.

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