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Thread: The state of casino offers - post COVID

  1. #1
    Frequent lurker, occasional poster here. In the reopened Southern casinos, the amounts of bounce back cash seems to have dropped dramatically. Without going into specifics, could others please share their recent experiences in other parts of the US? I'm thinking about starting to travel more widely now and I am looking for the best part of the country to start looking for new opportunities. I primarily am a machine player, but I am also a counter (green chip) with a 1 - 8 bet spread, when feasible. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by The Gentle Grafter View Post
    Frequent lurker, occasional poster here. In the reopened Southern casinos, the amounts of bounce back cash seems to have dropped dramatically. Without going into specifics, could others please share their recent experiences in other parts of the US? I'm thinking about starting to travel more widely now and I am looking for the best part of the country to start looking for new opportunities. I primarily am a machine player, but I am also a counter (green chip) with a 1 - 8 bet spread, when feasible. Thanks in advance.
    I can say our offers with certain properties in * and * are equal or higher to ever on multiple accounts.

    Play the game the right way and it was only an interruption.

    Nothing changed on the casino end. They want and need “good” players on their end.

    If anything they used the time to figure out longer term players who have an unprofitable history on paper.

    And if you are posting here (and are not a Tasha sock), you know this.

    Enough said.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by The Gentle Grafter View Post
    Frequent lurker, occasional poster here. In the reopened Southern casinos, the amounts of bounce back cash seems to have dropped dramatically. Without going into specifics, could others please share their recent experiences in other parts of the US? I'm thinking about starting to travel more widely now and I am looking for the best part of the country to start looking for new opportunities. I primarily am a machine player, but I am also a counter (green chip) with a 1 - 8 bet spread, when feasible. Thanks in advance.
    I can say our offers with certain properties in * and * are equal or higher to ever on multiple accounts.

    Play the game the right way and it was only an interruption.

    Nothing changed on the casino end. They want and need “good” players on their end.

    If anything they used the time to figure out longer term players who have an unprofitable history on paper.

    And if you are posting here (and are not a Tasha sock), you know this.

    Enough said.
    The OP is NOT one of my Socks. Dan can attest to this.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.


    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



    I am glad to get my full posting rights back! Thank you Dan!

  4. #4
    Upon reopening, Gulfstream cut my offers in half. They doubled it again after I played hard, but then cut it in half again despite me still playing hard. When I asked Player's Club Staff WHY my offers got cut back despite me playing hard, they told me it was because I wasn't as consistent as I should be. Well, reasonably, I play hard on my paydays, but play not as hard on days that are NOT my paydays which makes sense. I would think my playing hard on my paydays would guarantee a bump in offers.

    Hialeah, my offers stayed the same after reopening.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.


    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



    I am glad to get my full posting rights back! Thank you Dan!

  5. #5
    I need a good Cuban sandwich I need to get back down to South West 8th Street sit outside on the sidewalk while I eat it at the counter.

  6. #6
    Thanks for the responses. To be more specific, I was reporting my recent experiences in the areas of LA and MS. Even before COVID, these areas was not that profitable, but now it seems to have taken a turn for the worse. I have never focused on creating an "unprofitable history on paper", so that may be part on my problem.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by The Gentle Grafter View Post
    Thanks for the responses. To be more specific, I was reporting my recent experiences in the areas of LA and MS. Even before COVID, these areas was not that profitable, but now it seems to have taken a turn for the worse. I have never focused on creating an "unprofitable history on paper", so that may be part on my problem.
    I'm hearing the same thing across the board. Also casinos are becoming more strict cracking down and cutting off offers much sooner without significant further play rendering it basically unplayable from an AP's perspective. People thought this would forces the casinos to give out more As i have always said when the casinos are doing well they crank out the promotions and give out more, whenever they are hurting they cut way back.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by The Gentle Grafter View Post
    Thanks for the responses. To be more specific, I was reporting my recent experiences in the areas of LA and MS. Even before COVID, these areas was not that profitable, but now it seems to have taken a turn for the worse. I have never focused on creating an "unprofitable history on paper", so that may be part on my problem.
    I'm hearing the same thing across the board. Also casinos are becoming more strict cracking down and cutting off offers much sooner without significant further play rendering it basically unplayable from an AP's perspective. People thought this would forces the casinos to give out more As i have always said when the casinos are doing well they crank out the promotions and give out more, whenever they are hurting they cut way back.
    I don't understand how this is being observed across the board.

    I am currently in Five different markets and seeing increases if not the same offers.

    I suspect a lot of promo AP's just really don't understand the systems as much as they believe they do

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by The Gentle Grafter View Post
    Thanks for the responses. To be more specific, I was reporting my recent experiences in the areas of LA and MS. Even before COVID, these areas was not that profitable, but now it seems to have taken a turn for the worse. I have never focused on creating an "unprofitable history on paper", so that may be part on my problem.
    I'm hearing the same thing across the board. Also casinos are becoming more strict cracking down and cutting off offers much sooner without significant further play rendering it basically unplayable from an AP's perspective. People thought this would forces the casinos to give out more As i have always said when the casinos are doing well they crank out the promotions and give out more, whenever they are hurting they cut way back.
    I don't understand how this is being observed across the board.

    I am currently in Five different markets and seeing increases if not the same offers.

    I suspect a lot of promo AP's just really don't understand the systems as much as they believe they do
    Hmm. My Local Casino DID recently add a better Comp System in August. For example, I was able to get a $20 meal Comp to a neighboring Restaurant which I wouldn't have been able to do before August. The Comp was even accepted for Tax and tip! The meal including tax and tip came up to about $24. I paid only $4 out of pocket for a $24 meal! I now have $10 in Comps and am getting some BIG money tomorrow or Thursday and am planning to play $1,000 as a BASE in Slot and Roulette. So my Comps and free play offers should skyrocket.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zk2WAFzDcrJ7pjNB7

    Take comfort in the fact that no one is actually backing up his wishes to have you permanantly banned.


    Smart is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.

    Wise is knowing a Tomato doesn't belong in a fruit salad.



    I am glad to get my full posting rights back! Thank you Dan!

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by The Gentle Grafter View Post
    Thanks for the responses. To be more specific, I was reporting my recent experiences in the areas of LA and MS. Even before COVID, these areas was not that profitable, but now it seems to have taken a turn for the worse. I have never focused on creating an "unprofitable history on paper", so that may be part on my problem.
    I'm hearing the same thing across the board. Also casinos are becoming more strict cracking down and cutting off offers much sooner without significant further play rendering it basically unplayable from an AP's perspective. People thought this would forces the casinos to give out more As i have always said when the casinos are doing well they crank out the promotions and give out more, whenever they are hurting they cut way back.
    I don't understand how this is being observed across the board.

    I am currently in Five different markets and seeing increases if not the same offers.

    I suspect a lot of promo AP's just really don't understand the systems as much as they believe they do
    Perhaps accross the board was a bit overstated. And Im not saying it's dead or theres not good locations. Not sure what you mean by promo AP's because most slot AP's nowadays are either variable state/must hit or Mail AP's and don't really chase promotions, many haven't ever even played one. Im talking about guys that specialize in mail and have significant knowledge of how the systems and marketing work including inside knowledge.

    Im saying overall it's worst than pre-covid. Of course, some places are going to be better and some will run promotions. Im hearing example of places that i know were once giving multiple thousands back in free play basically went to hundreds. Also hearing lots of places are shutting down cards even before picking up the firt offers and that's with multiple different tests done so there's no past or current corilation.

    Also there seems to be more attention being paid and casinos monitoring the freeplay.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I'm hearing the same thing across the board. Also casinos are becoming more strict cracking down and cutting off offers much sooner without significant further play rendering it basically unplayable from an AP's perspective. People thought this would forces the casinos to give out more As i have always said when the casinos are doing well they crank out the promotions and give out more, whenever they are hurting they cut way back.
    I don't understand how this is being observed across the board.

    I am currently in Five different markets and seeing increases if not the same offers.

    I suspect a lot of promo AP's just really don't understand the systems as much as they believe they do
    Perhaps accross the board was a bit overstated. And Im not saying it's dead or theres not good locations. Not sure what you mean by promo AP's because most slot AP's nowadays are either variable state/must hit or Mail AP's and don't really chase promotions, many haven't ever even played one. Im talking about guys that specialize in mail and have significant knowledge of how the systems and marketing work including inside knowledge.

    Im saying overall it's worst than pre-covid. Of course, some places are going to be better and some will run promotions. Im hearing example of places that i know were once giving multiple thousands back in free play basically went to hundreds. Also hearing lots of places are shutting down cards even before picking up the firt offers and that's with multiple different tests done so there's no past or current corilation.

    Also there seems to be more attention being paid and casinos monitoring the freeplay.
    I'm referring specifically to mail offers.

    You state some places are turning off cards EVEN BEFORE PICKING UP THE FIRST OFFERS!

    This tells me the casino is either involved in some type of across the board software issue or they have detected methods of gaining offers they believe do not live up to the spirit of earning(for example someone earning offers wagering red/black at Roulette to escape variance.

    Otherwise there is no explanation for why a casino would turn off a card before even taking an offer (I suppose if members were flagged from abuse at other properties is the only other reason I can think of)

    These things are easily overcome although overhead costs may rise

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post

    I don't understand how this is being observed across the board.

    I am currently in Five different markets and seeing increases if not the same offers.

    I suspect a lot of promo AP's just really don't understand the systems as much as they believe they do
    Perhaps accross the board was a bit overstated. And Im not saying it's dead or theres not good locations. Not sure what you mean by promo AP's because most slot AP's nowadays are either variable state/must hit or Mail AP's and don't really chase promotions, many haven't ever even played one. Im talking about guys that specialize in mail and have significant knowledge of how the systems and marketing work including inside knowledge.

    Im saying overall it's worst than pre-covid. Of course, some places are going to be better and some will run promotions. Im hearing example of places that i know were once giving multiple thousands back in free play basically went to hundreds. Also hearing lots of places are shutting down cards even before picking up the firt offers and that's with multiple different tests done so there's no past or current corilation.

    Also there seems to be more attention being paid and casinos monitoring the freeplay.
    I'm referring specifically to mail offers.

    You state some places are turning off cards EVEN BEFORE PICKING UP THE FIRST OFFERS!

    This tells me the casino is either involved in some type of across the board software issue or they have detected methods of gaining offers they believe do not live up to the spirit of earning(for example someone earning offers wagering red/black at Roulette to escape variance.

    Otherwise there is no explanation for why a casino would turn off a card before even taking an offer (I suppose if members were flagged from abuse at other properties is the only other reason I can think of)

    These things are easily overcome although overhead costs may rise
    I've heard a couple of casinos recently(and that's only a couple I've heard of) has hired individuals specifically to monitor the free play(probably anything over a specific amount). Probably from all the yapping people do and bragging about how many hundreds of cards they have. Most Advantage players don't talk about that stuff publicly for good reason. Yes of course some casinos know it's going on but they don't quite know the extent of it, and some places may just be out to lunch. People talking about such stuff oftentimes gets back to certain individuals who work for or are looking to get into the dark side Casino Consulting aspect. That's how they(Darksiders) learn and keep up with all the new tactics, they're not figuring out the angles themselves, however once they catch wind of an angle they completely understand it and know how to counter it). They can use certain posts as examples a why the casinos need their service and why the system needs to change.

    At some places, if the cost goes up and the freeplay value goes down it becomes unplayable from a practical sense. Still might be +EV but your time is better spent at other locations. With less locations available that means more people are spending more time and fewer locations while ramping up th their numbers at those locations bus putting a shorter shelf life on those places as well. Yes, sure, this gig has been going for years, I get it, that doesn't mean it'll last forever or get harder and harder and less lucrative where they plug holes. I've already seen it happen, the numbers back all this became a big thing would make your head spin and the cost of generating huge offers was very minimal and the amounts where many thousands per pick up instead of hundreds.
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 09-30-2020 at 10:43 AM.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Perhaps accross the board was a bit overstated. And Im not saying it's dead or theres not good locations. Not sure what you mean by promo AP's because most slot AP's nowadays are either variable state/must hit or Mail AP's and don't really chase promotions, many haven't ever even played one. Im talking about guys that specialize in mail and have significant knowledge of how the systems and marketing work including inside knowledge.

    Im saying overall it's worst than pre-covid. Of course, some places are going to be better and some will run promotions. Im hearing example of places that i know were once giving multiple thousands back in free play basically went to hundreds. Also hearing lots of places are shutting down cards even before picking up the firt offers and that's with multiple different tests done so there's no past or current corilation.

    Also there seems to be more attention being paid and casinos monitoring the freeplay.
    I'm referring specifically to mail offers.

    You state some places are turning off cards EVEN BEFORE PICKING UP THE FIRST OFFERS!

    This tells me the casino is either involved in some type of across the board software issue or they have detected methods of gaining offers they believe do not live up to the spirit of earning(for example someone earning offers wagering red/black at Roulette to escape variance.

    Otherwise there is no explanation for why a casino would turn off a card before even taking an offer (I suppose if members were flagged from abuse at other properties is the only other reason I can think of)

    These things are easily overcome although overhead costs may rise
    I've heard a couple of casinos recently(and that's only a couple I've heard of) has hired individuals specifically to monitor the free play(probably anything over a specific amount). Probably from all the yapping people do and bragging about how many hundreds of cards they have. Most Advantage players don't talk about that stuff publicly for good reason. Yes of course some casinos know it's going on but they don't quite know the extent of it, and some places may just be out to lunch. People talking about such stuff oftentimes gets back to certain individuals who work for or are looking to get into the dark side Casino Consulting aspect. That's how they(Darksiders) learn and keep up with all the new tactics, they're not figuring out the angles themselves, however once they catch wind of an angle they completely understand it and know how to counter it). They can use certain posts as examples a why the casinos need their service and why the system needs to change.

    At some places, if the cost goes up and the freeplay value goes down it becomes unplayable from a practical sense. Still might be +EV but your time is better spent at other locations. With less locations available that means more people are spending more time and fewer locations while ramping up th their numbers at those locations bus putting a shorter shelf life on those places as well. Yes, sure, this gig has been going for years, I get it, that doesn't mean it'll last forever or get harder and harder and less lucrative where they plug holes. I've already seen it happen, the numbers back all this became a big thing would make your head spin and the cost of generating huge offers was very minimal and the amounts where many thousands per pick up instead of hundreds.
    Yeah casinos are laying off hundreds of employees but hiring people to scroll through thousands of players accounts looking for abuse.

    Got it!

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post

    I'm referring specifically to mail offers.

    You state some places are turning off cards EVEN BEFORE PICKING UP THE FIRST OFFERS!

    This tells me the casino is either involved in some type of across the board software issue or they have detected methods of gaining offers they believe do not live up to the spirit of earning(for example someone earning offers wagering red/black at Roulette to escape variance.

    Otherwise there is no explanation for why a casino would turn off a card before even taking an offer (I suppose if members were flagged from abuse at other properties is the only other reason I can think of)

    These things are easily overcome although overhead costs may rise
    I've heard a couple of casinos recently(and that's only a couple I've heard of) has hired individuals specifically to monitor the free play(probably anything over a specific amount). Probably from all the yapping people do and bragging about how many hundreds of cards they have. Most Advantage players don't talk about that stuff publicly for good reason. Yes of course some casinos know it's going on but they don't quite know the extent of it, and some places may just be out to lunch. People talking about such stuff oftentimes gets back to certain individuals who work for or are looking to get into the dark side Casino Consulting aspect. That's how they(Darksiders) learn and keep up with all the new tactics, they're not figuring out the angles themselves, however once they catch wind of an angle they completely understand it and know how to counter it). They can use certain posts as examples a why the casinos need their service and why the system needs to change.

    At some places, if the cost goes up and the freeplay value goes down it becomes unplayable from a practical sense. Still might be +EV but your time is better spent at other locations. With less locations available that means more people are spending more time and fewer locations while ramping up th their numbers at those locations bus putting a shorter shelf life on those places as well. Yes, sure, this gig has been going for years, I get it, that doesn't mean it'll last forever or get harder and harder and less lucrative where they plug holes. I've already seen it happen, the numbers back all this became a big thing would make your head spin and the cost of generating huge offers was very minimal and the amounts where many thousands per pick up instead of hundreds.
    Yeah casinos are laying off hundreds of employees but hiring people to scroll through thousands of players accounts looking for abuse.

    Got it!
    This Echoes the same sediment back on skips page(now vpfree2)
    Casinos will never hire Darksiders to consult on slots and video poker, these types of forums won't change anything.

    Whatever the case, it's a fact, not just speculation that casinos have hired people 1 for that specific job.

    This is precisely the time they would want hire someone for that... when their casino is not doing all that well. In their mind it only takes one or two employees possibly save the casino a significant amount of money. I'm not saying it's not Pennywise and pound-foolish. I've been doing Advantage play before, during and I'll be doing it after free play mailers if they somehow managed to change it significantly to where it's no longer that profitable.

  16. #16
    I got a lot of freeplay, room and meal comp out of Oklahoma and New Mexico in 2018 and 2019. I haven't used it since November 2019 when I had the heart attack. The mail quit coming when the casinos started shutting down this past spring.

    Some of the mail has come back, like Winstar. Winstar sends me 6 comp days a month, along with a few hundred dollars a month in freeplay, and usually some meal comp. They sent me 7 comp days for October. Along with a couple hundred in freeplay they sent me a 0.6666% freeplay on 150K in action for October. But it has to be run on Thursdays.

    The Winstar freeplay is hard to figure out because I always got more than what the mailer said. If it said $100 on a particular day I usually got $200, etc.

    I cruised the advantage slots some to sandwich in a slot wager but mostly played the 50 cent and dollar 9/6 and NSUD progressives in the London and Rome bartops. I had 4 meters to pick from when I got there.

    I got the mail rolling from the joint by running just 11K in action on the 9/6. Consistent 6 days hotel a month with freeplay, meal comp and promotions. Winstar usually sends me five or six pieces of mail per month.

    If I ever go back to the joint I'll be running it in my electric wheel chair so will probably do a lot more slot cruising.

    Tip: Request the casino tower and park in Rome section.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  17. #17
    Buffalo Thunder in Pojoaque, New Mexico has gone back to sending me their usual. Every month I get $75 X 9 per month in freeplay, 4 days in the hotel, $30 X 4 in meal comp.

    This stop was just pure slot cruising. And also it was in the middle of a five casino line-up along a 30 mile stretch of highway 84 between Santa Fe and Espanola. I worked the advantage slots in all of them.

    Tesuque....very good with the meal comp.
    Buffalo Thunder Resort
    Cities of Gold Casino
    Santa Claran Casino
    Ohkay Casino
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Buffalo Thunder in Pojoaque, New Mexico has gone back to sending me their usual. Every month I get $75 X 9 per month in freeplay, 4 days in the hotel, $30 X 4 in meal comp.

    This stop was just pure slot cruising. And also it was in the middle of a five casino line-up along a 30 mile stretch of highway 84 between Santa Fe and Espanola. I worked the advantage slots in all of them.

    Tesuque....very good with the meal comp.
    Buffalo Thunder Resort
    Cities of Gold Casino
    Santa Claran Casino
    Ohkay Casino
    Ohkay Casino - Some real marketers behind that branding.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  19. #19
    Thanks to all and special thanks to Mr. Crimm for sharing his experiences in some specific markets. This info is most helpful and your generosity in sharing this is most appreciated. Wishing you all the best.

  20. #20
    My mailers are way down.

    March mail was around $400/month. First month upon re-opening - $80/month.

    I ran $60k coin-in (with a sizable loss) over 2 visits and still stuck at $80/month, $10 twice pet week.

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