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Thread: Understanding Slotloser’s $200K yearly income comment

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by radicalwin View Post
    You have to factor in the prizes at the top
    At 7163 ways some of the brackets will be close to the top and you will probably notice that you don't have much drop while traveling to the top to collect the prize(s) - that's a lot of real estate (obviously you would want the center bracket's number of steps to the top to be a factor as well). Would you not take a 7163 way board under certain circumstances (again keeping in mind that some of the brackets would have to be close to the top or you couldn't get that many ways in the 1st place) ? If you decide to answer this question please don't include the circumstances if you don't want to.
    Last edited by tableplay; 10-29-2020 at 08:25 AM.

  2. #22
    Besides the number of ways on the lower left, the orbs up top that have BONUS in them should be payed attention to. They appear mostly in the 1 and 5 columns but sometimes appear in the 2 and 4 columns.

    You can also get into the bonus round by catching the three BONUS symbols on reels 2, 3, and 4. You have a much much better chance of doing it when the middle row is 3 away than you do when 4 away. I think this is one of the keys between 4 away and 3 away. And of course, the chances are much better when the middle column is 2 away or 1 away.

    I had went into the bonus round about 10 times before I thought, damn, I should be recording it. In the bonus round I had caught the white kitty twice out of about 10 shots. So I started recording.

    I got to the bonus round 22 times. The return was 1995 units. That's an average of 91 units per round. I caught the white kitty 4 times.

    So I caught that white kitty 6 times in 12, 492 spins. You get the money in the meter when you catch it. The meter resets but the middle column doesn't reset. You still continue to play.

    In the pic you can see the orbs with BONUS in them. I didn't play this configuration. I just took a pic of it for reference.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 10-29-2020 at 11:13 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #23
    I've got 200 bonuses on file and I'm at 71.28 bets per bonus.

  4. #24
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    I've got 200 bonuses on file and I'm at 71.28 bets per bonus.
    Thanks. Goes to show the BONUS represents a big chunk of payback.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  5. #25
    I got to the bonus 5 times out of the 22 total by catching the 3 BONUS symbols in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th columns. I was playing the middle column at 3 away. Getting to the BONUS this way when playing a 4 away will be much harder. With a 5 away or 6 away you can just about forget it. The reason is the BONUS symbol covers 3 regular symbols.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 10-30-2020 at 08:43 AM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    I got to the bonus 5 times out of the 22 total by catching the 3 BONUS symbols in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th columns. I was playing the middle column at 3 away. Getting to the BONUS this way when playing a 4 away will be much harder. With a 5 away or 6 away you can just about forget it. The reason is the BONUS symbol covers 3 regular symbols.
    Squeezed it in there on column 2 ;-). It's possible that the 71.28 unit and 91 unit delta could be a result of different denominations possibly having different average bonus round values (and that different denominations and/or different denominational compositions were played for the Crimm and Prozema data sets). Or maybe it's just variance or a combination of both variance and unit denomination.

    Thanks for posting this stuff guys much appreciated.

  7. #27
    I don't think the bet level matters but since you are interested:

    0.8 - 94 events - 73.63 bets per
    1.6 - 58 - 62.84
    2.4 - 18 - 70.65
    3.2 - 4 - 129.05
    4 - 24 - 78.23
    8 - 1 - 24.19

  8. #28
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    I don't think the bet level matters but since you are interested:

    0.8 - 94 events - 73.63 bets per
    1.6 - 58 - 62.84
    2.4 - 18 - 70.65
    3.2 - 4 - 129.05
    4 - 24 - 78.23
    8 - 1 - 24.19
    This helped me find a math error. Its actually 71.64 bets per bonus with 199 observed. Hope you didn't pass up any winners based on that half bet.

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    I don't think the bet level matters but since you are interested:

    0.8 - 94 events - 73.63 bets per
    1.6 - 58 - 62.84
    2.4 - 18 - 70.65
    3.2 - 4 - 129.05
    4 - 24 - 78.23
    8 - 1 - 24.19
    This helped me find a math error. Its actually 71.64 bets per bonus with 199 observed. Hope you didn't pass up any winners based on that half bet.
    Yup, looks like it's all due to variance based on this data. Thanks Prozema.

  10. #30
    For those that don't know how the ways work. The Gold Brackets in each column, after they have reached the top, reset to the 3rd level. Then they start advancing upward again as you are playing. From the 3rd level they are 6 away from the top.

    It's easy to determine exactly what level a column is at. Just count the symbols underneath the bracket. If there are 3 symbols underneath its on the 3rd level (6 away from the top). If there are 5 symbols underneath it's at the 5th level (4 away from the top).

    On the lower left side you can see the number of ways getting bigger as the brackets advance upward. If all 5 columns are at reset then there are 243 ways to hit the line pays 3X3X3X3X3 = 243.

    In the pic you can see on the lower left it says 1200 ways. Then look at where the columns are at.

    1st is at 5
    2nd is at 4
    3rd is at 3
    4th is at 5
    5th is at 4

    5X4X3X5X4 = 1200

    The maximum number of ways possible is 8X8X8X8X8 = 32,768
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  11. #31
    I take an even lower number of ways under certain circumstances. I would enthusiastically jump on 7163 wats.

  12. #32
    Just for fun I tracked the landing position of 1260 shoes.

    157 of them landed in reel 1
    481 landed in reel 2
    8 landed in reel 3
    475 landed in reel 4
    139 landed in reel 5

  13. #33
    Is there any way to change this thread to hex 3? It's titled very poorly.

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Is there any way to change this thread to hex 3? It's titled very poorly.
    I think only Dan Druff can change the name.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  15. #35
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Just for fun I tracked the landing position of 1260 shoes.

    157 of them landed in reel 1
    481 landed in reel 2
    8 landed in reel 3
    475 landed in reel 4
    139 landed in reel 5
    Reels 2 and 4 move the fastest. Then reels 1 and 5. Reel 3 moves very slow. It appears that 1 and 5 move at the same speed....and 2 and 4 move at the same speed.

    Also, when the horseshoe appears on a reel it can advance it more than one level. Sometimes it will advance two levels.

    And I also saw it move 3 levels once and 4 levels once. That occurred on reel 2.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Is there any way to change this thread to hex 3? It's titled very poorly.
    I think only Dan Druff can change the name.
    The tyranny! lol.

  17. #37
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Just for fun I tracked the landing position of 1260 shoes.

    157 of them landed in reel 1
    481 landed in reel 2
    8 landed in reel 3
    475 landed in reel 4
    139 landed in reel 5
    Reels 2 and 4 move the fastest. Then reels 1 and 5. Reel 3 moves very slow. It appears that 1 and 5 move at the same speed....and 2 and 4 move at the same speed.

    Also, when the horseshoe appears on a reel it can advance it more than one level. Sometimes it will advance two levels.

    And I also saw it move 3 levels once and 4 levels once. That occurred on reel 2.
    I have had the shoe advance 3 levels on the middle reel 3 times now. Once to payout the black cat and twice to remain one away.
    Once it remained one away for about 4k spins

  18. #38
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Just for fun I tracked the landing position of 1260 shoes.

    157 of them landed in reel 1
    481 landed in reel 2
    8 landed in reel 3
    475 landed in reel 4
    139 landed in reel 5
    Reels 2 and 4 move the fastest. Then reels 1 and 5. Reel 3 moves very slow. It appears that 1 and 5 move at the same speed....and 2 and 4 move at the same speed.

    Also, when the horseshoe appears on a reel it can advance it more than one level. Sometimes it will advance two levels.

    And I also saw it move 3 levels once and 4 levels once. That occurred on reel 2.
    I have had the shoe advance 3 levels on the middle reel 3 times now. Once to payout the black cat and twice to remain one away.
    Once it remained one away for about 4k spins
    This one jumped 4 or 5 on me to give me two bonuses back to back. It was reel 1 or 5... I forget. Regardless of all that, I've not tracked the movement per shoe but if the line was set at 1.1 I would take the under.

    Name:  20200917_210145.jpg
Views: 978
Size:  974.8 KB

  19. #39
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Reels 2 and 4 move the fastest. Then reels 1 and 5. Reel 3 moves very slow. It appears that 1 and 5 move at the same speed....and 2 and 4 move at the same speed.

    Also, when the horseshoe appears on a reel it can advance it more than one level. Sometimes it will advance two levels.

    And I also saw it move 3 levels once and 4 levels once. That occurred on reel 2.
    I have had the shoe advance 3 levels on the middle reel 3 times now. Once to payout the black cat and twice to remain one away.
    Once it remained one away for about 4k spins
    This one jumped 4 or 5 on me to give me two bonuses back to back. It was reel 1 or 5... I forget. Regardless of all that, I've not tracked the movement per shoe but if the line was set at 1.1 I would take the under.

    Name:  20200917_210145.jpg
Views: 978
Size:  974.8 KB
    The best way to track spins on the 1 and 5 and 2 and 4 reels might be to record the number of spins it takes to move it from the 3rd level to the top.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  20. #40
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post

    I have had the shoe advance 3 levels on the middle reel 3 times now. Once to payout the black cat and twice to remain one away.
    Once it remained one away for about 4k spins
    This one jumped 4 or 5 on me to give me two bonuses back to back. It was reel 1 or 5... I forget. Regardless of all that, I've not tracked the movement per shoe but if the line was set at 1.1 I would take the under.

    Name:  20200917_210145.jpg
Views: 978
Size:  974.8 KB
    The best way to track spins on the 1 and 5 and 2 and 4 reels might be to record the number of spins it takes to move it from the 3rd level to the top.
    I started counting spins on each line count and it's tedious.

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