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Thread: I wore out my welcome at Harrah's Rincon

  1. #1
    Well, I guess I wore out my welcome at Harrah's Rincon in San Diego. I just looked at my "free play offers" and comp offers for March and they are just miserable.

    I used to get weekly free play in the range of $135 a week, plus some daily offers in the range of about $100. I also used to get four $25 food vouchers, for a total of $100.

    For March, my weekly offers are $55 a week, and my daily offers are $60 to $75. And instead of getting four of the $25 vouchers, for March I got three.

    I guess this is what happens when you're playing 8/5 bonus instead of 9/5 DDB, and after you hit a $20K royal in January and then had a couple of other winning sessions including one with a $6200 win.

    Curiously my wife who has been to Rincon twice in the past five years got the same $55 weekly free play offer I got. And on her last visit in December she hit a royal on a 50-cent machine playing 8/5 Aces and Faces, a version of bonus.

    This is what happened to me a couple of years ago at Pechanga after I hit two $20K royals about a month apart and had several DDB sessions when I hit quad aces with a kicker sometimes twice a night. My offers at Pechanga just dried up.

    By the way, this month at Pechanga I get $70 down from the $100 I got the last two months. The last two months I just played the free play through once and cashed out the winnings.

    To be honest, it's not worth the gas money to drive to Rincon to use these offers.

    I'll wait to see what happens for April.

  2. #2
    Good, now maybe you'll let me train you in fair casinos in Nevada on how to play to win MONEY instead of for all that other junk they give you "for free"! Rincon's a nice place--I'd just visit it once every 3 months or sofor an overnight stay/good dinner if I lived over there, and even then there would have to be plenty of reason to go there other than for the vp.

    What they did to you was back you off some, in casino terms, and it happens when a player gets on the radar from big wins when previously they were able to always make a profit off of him. I had this type thing happen to me multiple times when I played SPS at high limits everywhere--even to the point of being banned from playing vp at Harrahs LV & Bellagio--until I stopped using my player's cards 100% of the time. I don't expect you or most other players would do that though, unless you're able to change how you approach the entire game....and it is a game in every sense of the word. Now maybe people can get why I write about how strange it is that Bob Dancer blabs about all his millions in winnings and has never been stopped from playing, and in fact, just continually keeps getting invited right back in to keep on destroying the casinos over and over again. No big winner ever is allowed to play at these places. If the casinos can't figure out a way to make a profit off of them, it's game over for the player.

  3. #3
    Rob, if I recall Bob Dancer has written in some of his columns that he has also been backed off at certain casinos, including playing in certain promotions.

  4. #4
    As do I, which he has done every now & then for years, and which is why as a Gaming Today columnist I brought two of his articles into casino management for verification because Bob never supported his assertions with any kind of proof--as I had by having my banning letters published. And as expected, it was all more smoke & mirrors designed to boost his supposed feared reputation, which in turn would obviously boost product sales and his bosses' consulting company's business opportunities. I actually appreciated Bob's ability to market himself in this way--and in my column I said exactly that, along with explaining how I'd never find fault with a person trying their best to make a living....only not at the expense of pretending to be something they were not.

    You should be able to see why the LVA crowd along with the AP crowd continue to despise me to this day.

  5. #5
    A funny thing happened Sunday afternoon: I got a phone call from one of the managers at Rincon who called to say "Hi" and asked if there was anything I needed since I'm a good customer. "Yes," I said, "I need to find out if I am being punished for hitting a royal in January and for having some decent wins since then and if I am also being punished because I switched to 8/5 Bonus instead of playing your 9/5 Double Double Bonus?"

    This caught the manager off guard. I then explained how it didn't make sense to me since my coin in was high and continues to be very high and how my free play offers have been reduced to virtually two pushes of the button. I also mentioned how I stopped going to Pechanga (their main competitor) because they also reduced my offers about two years ago. (I still go to Pechanga but only to run their meager free play through the machine once, and then cash out. I don't tip the free valet -- I self park. That's how determined I am not to give Pechanga another dime.)

    The manager said she will call me on Monday when she gets an answer "from the right department." This will be interesting.

    I suspect I will hear something that since I am playing a game with a lower house edge that my free play offers were reduced. If that's what I'm told I'm going to tell them that they lost a customer, and I just as easily can play at Caesars where I usually get $2500 in "show up money."

  6. #6
    Alan, do you know how the free play is determined? If not, you should have asked. Some casinos use a "trip average". If you happened to have a couple of short trips then that could reduce your average play and reduce your free play. Sometimes a short trip happens if you play over the casinos "day start time". For some casinos a "day" starts at midnight, for others it is some time in the morning. You should also know that time and avoid playing across it in casinos that use trip averages.

  7. #7
    Alan, I know some folks who experienced what you did at Pechanga. Their free play was cut way back, even one person who put through high six digits per trip at the tables. They are not happy, and basically do what you do now.

    Is Pechanga "renting" a Harrah's/Caesars management team to run their place?

  8. #8
    Arc: when my son's free play offers dried up at Rincon about a year ago (he was playing 8/5 Bonus when I was still playing the 9/5 DDB game) he called and was told it was because of a combination of his royals and that he was playing a low edge game, and that the free play was determined by a combination of coin-in X house edge. He had three or four royals. So I am pretty much expecting to hear the same thing-- which I will protest and probably without anyone caring.

    They don't alter how "tier score" or tier points are awarded for Total Rewards -- and that has the same coin-in formula no matter what Total Rewards property you play at. And here it is the beginning of March and I'm already more than half way to 7 Stars.

  9. #9
    I know this will be dissed by all parties, but these are the ups & downs experienced when you play for the points, slot card benefits, and smiles from your casino hosts. I did that all the time when I was an AP, and whenever my benefits went down I felt cheated. Ever since, because I learned to only play for the money and just accept whatever extras come my way, I've profitted more and I've felt a whole lot better not worrying about if I'm getting my "fair share" in order to help my ridiculous "grind-it-out" process.

  10. #10
    I understand that Rob, but if they are not giving me the "extras" I can just as easily play elsewhere. There are other casinos.

  11. #11
    And I'll bet you'd go thru a mouthful of root canals first before ever REALLY putting Harrahs in your rearview mirror.

    I just read oodles of posts on vpFREE complaining about this and that about the Harrahs slot club, and it's only because people have been taught that points and "freebies" are the end-all by Jean Scott. It's all so stupid to read about, because most or all of these players lose. I just shake my head at why people simply just don't try to play to win money.

    BTW, I haven't played at a Harrahs property in over a year, I'm being downgraded to platinum April 1st, and I was still allowed to book 12 nights comped up in Lake Tahoe between Oct. & Dec. this year.

  12. #12
    Rob, it is possible to win with free play. I just did a couple of weeks ago when I took $300 of free play and left with $6,200. And then there was a time about two years ago when I turned $400 of free play into $11,000.

    Free play is money in your pocket. Don't kid yourself. If you can get it, use it. Every dollar of free play that you use is one less dollar coming out of your own pocket. Every comp point you earn that goes towards your dinner or dessert or show tickets or gas cards is a dollar that doesn't come out of your own pocket.

    Why is that a problem for you? Why do you think that using free play or getting comps makes you a loser?

    Oh, and let's not forget the new player at Pechanga a couple of weeks ago who signed up for a player's card, got $10 of free play, and then won more than a million dollars on Wheel of Fortune with only using the free play.

  13. #13
    I got a $2 royal a year ago with $40 freeplay. I don't believe I said not to use it or accept it if it comes with your play. I said most people, esp. those who play at Harrahs from what I read on vpFREE, play for the points and status. And that's exactly how the casinos love to see players doing, which in turn spells paying ten times for what each comp is worth. But those who's only focus is on winning money and who can either take or leave the slot club fluff, are not doing what the casinos want or expect. That's what being a consistent winning player is all about.

  14. #14
    Alan, you are correct in looking for every way to improve your edge. That is what smart gamblers do. They look for every possible way to improve their situation.

    Now, look at what dufus said. He will go out of his way to avoid profitable situations just so he can claim he's not doing what the casino wants. Of course, that is just more silly nonsense. The key is knowing what improves your edge. It's being able to compute when a situation is profitable and when it's not. If it's not a good deal, then don't partake. It's quite simple and has nothing to do with the nonsense Singer spews.

  15. #15
    Arc, this is one of Rob's rules that I just can't understand or agree with. He says he goes only by his schedule and will not utilize casino offers. I, on the other hand, plan my trips to Vegas for exactly when there are big offers -- whether they be show up money, free play, shopping sprees, etc.

    And that "promised phone call" I was supposed to get yesterday did not come. Hmmm.

    edited to add: No phone call on Tuesday either.

    edited to add on Monday, March 12th: It's now been one week, and no call. I've also had three discussions with my host on another matter and no comment about my discussion with high level manager who had called me at home.
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 03-12-2012 at 03:02 AM.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Arc, this is one of Rob's rules that I just can't understand or agree with. He says he goes only by his schedule and will not utilize casino offers. I, on the other hand, plan my trips to Vegas for exactly when there are big offers -- whether they be show up money, free play, shopping sprees, etc.

    And that "promised phone call" I was supposed to get yesterday did not come. Hmmm.

    edited to add: No phone call on Tuesday either.

    edited to add on Monday, March 12th: It's now been one week, and no call. I've also had three discussions with my host on another matter and no comment about my discussion with high level manager who had called me at home.
    Well, that phone call never came... and it probably never will. When I was tipped off about the video poker pay tables being cut I was also told that all free play offers were being cut. It's the new rinky dink Rincon way of doing things.

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